#the grand northern conspiracy

[atopvisenyashill]

thoughts on the grand northern conspiracy theory?

it makes some points but i think most of it is deeply silly and relies on far too many leaps in logic and characters acting in a way they would never act all to push a “jon will be king” theory, which as i’m sure everyone knows, i am a big hater of.

The basis of the theory is that the Northern lords are purposefully playing Stannis & the Bolton/Freys against each other so they can take each other out, and free the North up for a Stark King & Northern Independence. That, on its face, I fully believe. It’s the details in the theory that I don’t fully buy into.

It’s basically canon that the Northern lords & ladies are really taking advantage of the chaotic politics & lack of a real centralized leader at the moment to make their own political moves. Some examples here include:

Arnolf & Cregan Karstark are explicitly doing this, something Alys comments on and something several other lords point out: "My uncle declared for Stannis, in hopes it might provoke the Lannisters to take poor Harry's head. Should my brother die, Karhold should pass to me, but my uncles want my birthright for their own." They don't really care about Stannis, they want Harry dead so they can have Karhold.

Alysane Mormont is potentially working off orders from her mother, when she says here, "Five, we were. All girls. Lyanna is back on Bear Island. Lyra and Jory are with our mother. Dacey was murdered." Even though as far as we know before that, all of Maege's girls were at Bear Island (except Dacey, who was with Maege in Robb's campaign).

There's the Umbers refusing to fight each other while picking two different sides, and this theory here that it was likely a plan between Mors and Hother to keep the Greatjon alive.

The Manderly Of It All re: very obviously using his granddaughter's anger as a cover for his own brutal plans for revenge and a Stark restoration.

The North is all clearly playing the game & attempting to oust the Boltons & Freys from power. I also don’t think the grumbling for Northern Independence would have died down since Robb died - if anything, after their King is brutally, viciously murdered, his mother’s corpse made a mockery of, his little Queen now a prisoner, and his sisters married off to enemies & humiliated, I imagine the calls for Northern Independence have gotten louder. This is a people that has suffered not just death and violence, but a lot of humiliation on top of that, and all of that is the perfect recipe for some sort of nationalist call for independence.

But the theory has. Some points that I just cannot co-sign because they make absolutely zero sense to me.

The idea that the only thing stopping Jon from being king is Jeyne being pregnant or the witnesses of Robb’s will being dead is just silly. He isn’t Ned Stark’s son, he is Lyanna’s! That puts Robb’s entire will in question, and you can bet your ass that there will be some grumbling or discussion about whether Winterfell should bypass Ned‘a line despite him having TWO true born sons and TWO true born daughters still alive, or whether it goes to Lyanna and therefore to Jon. The succession question is just NOT as simple as the meta makes it out to be because it completely ignores that Jon is, I cannot stress this enough, NOT actually Ned Stark’s son.

The meta is right that it’s likely Maege & Gallbart got a message to Howland because Theon notes that there’s been attacks by craggoman. But. Howland is one of - possible thee only - person left alive that knows Jon is Lyanna’s son. There is just no way he doesn’t have a strong opinion on whether Jon should inherit winterfell without knowing the truth.

Irrelevant but it’s really mean to Jeyne Westerling. Whatever role she may have - even if it’s to die in the prologue of TWOW - her life and her death are important regardless of whether she’s pregnant! She is the widow of a King, and if she dies by LSH’s hand, it’s going to be a huge point in showing us the violence in the Riverlands. Maybe the continued breakdown in the Riverlands, Lady Stoneheart’s anger, and Jeyne’s defiance of her family is not relevant to the King Jon pushers, but it IS thematically relevant to the plot thank you very fucking much. THE GIRL IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS THE BOY.

More relevant to this point is there’s just no way in fuck that Lady Stoneheart is trying to crown Jon. “oh she has bigger problems” she is going to crown one of her children if she crowns anyone, likely Arya, not her husband’s bastard who she fucking hated & asked to be banished to a glorified penal colony. Look at Brynden’s comments about Jon:

The Blackfish narrowed his eyes. "Did your father arrange for that as well? Catelyn never trusted the boy, as I recall, no more than she ever trusted Theon Greyjoy. It would seem she was right about them both.

Cat hates that kid so much she wrote letters to her uncle talking shit about him but we are supposed to believe this is proof she wants to crown him? When she's so far gone she's willing to kill Podrick and Brienne off a perceived slight against her? When she's heard several rumors that her daughters may still be alive and well? No. Don't buy it even a little.

Also, Brynden is flying Robb’s banner bc Robb was his family, because he loved Catelyn, and because what else is he supposed to do when he’s in the middle of a siege?? This point is silly and nonsensical.

Harwin as the Hooded Man - i mean. there’s nothing for or against this really, but also the Theon Durden theory aka Theon is the hooded man and doesn’t realize bc he’s having a psychotic episode, is much more believable to me & much more in line with everything that’s happening in theon’s chapter.

So like. Yes, the basic premise of “the northern lords are desperately looking for a stark, any stark, to make king/queen in the north, bc they are tired of All This Bullshit” is something i completely agree with. I do think it’s likely Maege has been in contact with her daughters, & that she and Gallbart made contact with Howland, who is about to enter the scene in a big way. But all that ish about LSH, the BWB, and Blackfish? Absolutely not. LSH is about Arya’s story (and Brienne & Jaime’s), not Jon. Stoneheart doesn’t care about the politics in Westeros; she cares that she followed all the rules and it got her family killed, so now she will break every rule there is to get revenge for her slaughtered children. she is Alyssa Arryn except she has the power to cause a lot of suffering before her tears drown her. she is not wasting her second life crowning jon snow!

#the grand northern conspiracy #valyrianscrolls #the north #and the mummer's farce is almost done #lady stoneheart #anti grand northern conspiracy theory #getting on my soap box #this is all me being a hater aljdsflkj

[daenystheedreamer]

"Grand northern conspiracy" what part of the last 5 books makes you think ANY of these people have the ability to collaborate with each other independently be so real rn. ned had been IMPRISONED and the manderlys and umbers were fighting over hunting lands they are NOT planning anything together they just all hate roose that much

exactly plus what have we learned about people. They Do Not Shut The Fuck Up EVER. r+l=j only stayed secret because it was JUST ned and howland and they never said anything ever ned lied to his wife for fifteen years. there is no way, in such a tense climate, every lord and lady in the north could a) keep their mouth shut b) coordinate despite conflicting loyalties c) not have any of their hundreds of men blab even accidentally. also ravens is not texting its not immediate and you can just shoot that raven dead. the grand northern conspiracy is several seperate minor quests that slightly overlap.

my thoughts on the gnc (based on the ASX video, i hate the forums) below the cut

WINTERFELL

the snowmen lords (barbrey, wyman, harwood stout, whoresbane umber) have their rickon conspiracy. this is the davos one, most obvious, confirmed etc. i believe what has been explained and hinted is straightforward.

ROBB'S WILL: MAEGE AND GALBART

maege and galbart are ambiguously with howland in the neck with robb's will that says jon is heir. there's evidence they made it and maege is "with lyra and [jorelle]" but probably not at bear island, because lyanna is the only one there. there have since no mentions of galbart's whereabouts

howland of course is the last living person with knowledge of r+l=j

robb's will was made under the belief that bran and rickon were dead and that sansa and arya were ???, leaving that document in limbo. also jon is dead

my belief is maege and galbart had their meeting with howland and are in some kind of hiding rn. i don't think howland told them about r+l=j because it's honestly sooo unrelated to the northern political situation. all it does is make things way more chaotic and puts jon in a really precarious position.

ROBB'S WILL: LADY STONEHEART

LSH has robb's crown and since cat was at the signing of the will it's possible she could crown jon. people link her to maege and galbart but lsh is clearly doing her own thing right now and does not gaf about her bastard stepson

the lannister/freys lost the brotherhood somewhere in the neck so its possible LSH is up there slaying it up with howland.

i think the LSH/howland collusion is a little iffy. LSH is not in her right mind because her brain is rotting in her cracked skull. i just dont see her scheming a huge political conspiracy rn.

personally im of the opinion LSH is on a course towards arya and/or sansa, not jon. or at least her nexus is at her daughters. she is on a revenge quest, not avenge quest. she wants to kill RW participants, not complete robb's will.

plus imo if LSH and the brotherhood are scheming anything, its a red wedding 2.0 massacre

RIVERRUN

tom of sevenstreams is spying on the lannister riverrun camp on behalf of the BWB and is clearly colluding with edmure.

edmure frees brynden

brynden is a robb loyalist and is now running around possibly knowing whatever edmure knows from tom

two riverrun tully guards choose to join the night's watch. where JON is!!!

also jeyne westerling is confirmed to feature in the TWOW prologue

this stuff is wayyy more circumstantial. the line of thought is that the BWB knows about robb's will -> tom knows -> tom tells edmure -> edmure tells brynden -> brynden becomes jon snow #1 fan or whatever. + those tully men are sent judge jon/inform him/whatever

again this is all under the assumption that this is LSH's plan, which i doubt. i think this part of the conspiracy is the least credible and i think a lot of these 'clues' or whatever are probably about a possible red wedding 2.0 (or attack on the lannister camp) as opposed to Everything Is About Jon. those tully men are sus though...

---

jesus okay i got bored here once i got to the part about stannis army politics. i only have enough space in my head to care about one conspiracy per contingent and i picked night lamp for stannis' army. i think there are conflicting loyalties and the fArya situation + bran rickon thing will complicate it further but jesus christ theyre on a military campaign. they do not have time to hook up with fuckn wyman manderly. everyone is freezing and starving okay.

flint and norrey have some shit going on. plus the fuckin liddle that met bran. god. what ever. basically its several minor conspiracies that happen to overlap and some are probably unrelated. but anyway everyone go watch and draw your own conclusions<3

i think the bolton-held winterfell is a powder keg waiting to explode is the Point or whatever. everyone runnning around with conflicting loyalties lying hating each other loving their family etc etc human heart in conflict with itself. way more fun and thematically appropriate. plus its so unneccessary... its like how people try and make littlefinger have bigger and crazier plans. his plans are already big and crazy you dont need to throat him so hard. now i think wyman does deserve a good throating but he's already an awesome schemer do we need to include lady stoneheart. let her murder more people on her own for her own reasons. god forbid women do anything

#grand northern conspiracy #ask #boghierophant #jesus thats long my bad

[windriverdelta]

On the Grand Northern Conspiracy

Somehow I have been thinking a lot about the Grand Northern Conspiracy, an ASOIAF fan theory that posits that in AFFC/ADWD the lords of the North and Riverlands are plotting to install Jon Snow as King in the North. Well, no time like present to write a comment.

TL;DR I find it extremely implausible and would very surprised if TWOW featured anything even resembling that. It's a far-fetched conspiracy theory.

First of all, as other people like @turtle-paced have pointed out, there are lots of barriers to communication between the supposed conspirators and no evidence that they could coordinate their actions. Now, there is evidence in Arya's ASOS chapters that the Brotherhood Without Banners has contacts to the Riverlords and one wonders if Jaime Lannister in AFFC is being deliberately steered to Brienne, but that doesn't mean the Northerners can do the same.

Second, where is the set-up for the Northern lords using Stannis like that? Late Walder Frey is amply established as a traitor, opportunist and oathbreaker two books before the Red Wedding, there is no foreshadowing at all for Mormont, mountain clans etc. This isn't Game of Thrones, spectacular betrayals do not come out of thin air in ASOIAF. In this context, it's worth noting that foreshadowing in ASOIAF usually takes the form of a few unambiguous meaningful events, not a lot of very ambiguous little things that can interpreted in multiple ways like the infamous "Corn Code"

Three, Jon Snow does not work very well as a fulcrum for such a conspiracy. Ignoring for a moment that nobody has bothered getting his buy-in for such a plot (what if he deems it dishonourable and sleazy and ices out all the participants?), there is no indication that any physical copy of Robb's will survived the Red Wedding. Remember, the various lords and ladies are referred to as its "witnesses", and most of them are now prisoners of the Freys. Look at it from a character's perspective: Two lords who somehow survived the Red Wedding, claiming that Robb wanted to make Jon king. Why would anyone believe them? Especially Jon Snow, who knows in ADWD that Robb was killed by his own men, he has no reason at all to trust Maege or Galbart. And without the will, Jon Snow would just be an usurper and deserter from the Night's Watch.

Narrative-wise, I don't see much foreshadowing of Jon being king in the north in the main series - all so-called "foreshadowing" I've seen are ambiguous allusions or far-fetched interpretations. I see no thematic or character purpose, either - I tend to think that R+L=J, the three dragons and his assassination lead into him being a dragonrider and fighter against the Others. In my opinion, the political side of the Northern storyline is Sansa and Stannis' job. And there is plenty of potential conflict around them without the need for a king in the north scheme.

But the big sticking point is that the actions of many of the supposed conspirators don't fit with theory. Just to cite a few examples:

Lady Stoneheart is not crowning Jon with anything but a noose, not in a million years, there is no evidence whatsoever that she's anything but a revenge zombie.

Wyman Manderly is entrusting Rickon Stark to consummate Stannis loyalist Davos Seaworth, which makes no sense at all if he planned to betray Stannis later - why would he risk Rickon becoming Stannis' hostage?

We have no reason to believe that Barbrey Dustin is lying about not liking the Starks - for one thing, Dustin troops are noticeable by their absence for the War of Five Kings, true to her word. She'll probably jump ship if Roose falls, but that's not the same thing as becoming a Stark restorationist. In fact, I could see her supporting Stannis to take the Starks down a peg.

People keep citing Lyanna Mormont's defiant letter to Stannis as proof of Bear Island not being truly on his side, but not only is she (as Jon points out) not in charge of House Mormont, we later see Alysane marching with Stannis. She almost certainly is in contact with Maege given her comments to Asha about her family; I doubt that this is a right hand vs left hand situation. I am not even sure that she has much of a retinue, either - the problem with Rickon above may exist here too. Finally, recall that in AGOT Maege challenged Robb, telling him that he was so young as to have no business giving her commands. The Mormonts don't let anyone boss them around, that doesn't mean that they are Frey Lite.

In short, this theory requires lots of poorly foreshadowed OOC behaviour to enable a rather pointless political ploy that doesn't fit the narrative very well.

#asoiaf #the winds of winter #stannis baratheon #jon snow #grand northern conspiracy #rickon stark #wyman manderly #lyanna mormont #alysane mormont #barbrey dustin #robb stark #lady stoneheart #anti grand northern conspiracy

[halekduo]

The Blackfish slandering Jon Snow is my personal Red Wedding.

Hoping against hope Brynden was just putting on a show so Jaime wouldn't suspect the two of his men taking the black and that those fellas are only going to Castle Black to inform Jon about Robb's will. Please god.

#asoiaf #affc #adwd #jon snow #robb stark #brynden tully #Brynden blackfish #grand northern conspiracy #the north remembers

[askmeaboutmyoctopustheory]

this is the third time i’ve tried to upload this lets see if i can do it

#grand northern conspiracy #barbrey dustin #wyman manderly #the north remembers #asoiaf #my art

[alliluyevas]

my fave asoiaf theories are the ones that have absolutely no bearing on the plot whatsoever but i’m just like This Adds So Much To The Story...also the plot-related ones tend to be extremely complex and i have a hard time understanding them kgfjesfr

#i still dont know what the grand northern conspiracy is #PLEASE share your fave asoiaf theories i love hearing about weird new ones

[visenyaism]

i don’t believe there’s a whole grand northern conspiracy. what there IS is like 20 nobles stuck in Winterfell together all of whom are at this point prepared to unleash cataclysmic violence as soon as someone else moves first and lets them know which way the wind is blowing but all of them refuse to blink first so they’re all just waiting. but it’s soon. if someone even drops a fork at the wrong time at dinner it’s ending up in Ramsay’s eye before it gets back on the table. 

#the moment in twow when the first person says fuck it we ball and everyone loses it. then you’ll see

[jeyneofpoole]

my dealer: got some straight gas 🔥😛 this strain is called “the grand northern conspiracy” 😳 you’ll be zonked out of your gourd 💯

me: yeah whatever. i don’t feel shit.

5 minutes later: dude I swear I just saw some freys eat cannibalism pie

my buddy barbrey pacing: the maesters are lying to us

#yippee #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #valyrianscrolls #wyman manderly #barbrey dustin #barbrey ryswell #freys #house frey #adwd #a dance with dragons #theon greyjoy #roose bolton

[nordickies]

For outfit ideas, I think it would be fun to explore historical outfits!! For example, I think Fin would look very cute (and prob very uncomfortable) in the knightly order outfit of Gustaf Mauritz Armfelt, an important (and very interesting!!) Finnish diplomat from the 18th century

This got lost in my drafts, sorry about that, anon!! This is a nice request, historical outfits are fun to draw! (I agree, this outfit must feel a bit uncomfortable)

And you're right; Armfelt was a fascinating character. I definitely recommend that people read more about him if Swedish/Finnish history interests you! But very simply put, he was a powerful official in Gustav III's court (and one of the king's rumored lovers) who was later declared a traitor in Sweden for treason. After the Swedish coup of 1809 and the deposition of the king, Armfelt moved to the newly seized Grand Duchy of Finland and continued his political career in the Russian Empire, helping to lift Finland's status and rights significantly.

But in general, the era of the Swedish kingdom's split into Sweden and Finland is so interesting - with many characters like Armfelt. In Sweden, the nobles and officials who stayed in Finland and pledged the oath of allegiance to the old enemy, Russia, were seen as traitors. Though not everyone swore the alliance, some individual soldiers and officials, still loyal to the crown, ended up fleeing and residing in Sweden.

But in parts of the high Finnish society, the dissatisfaction with the crown had existed for a while already (e.g., Anjala Conspiracy, Proclamation of Empress Elizabeth of 1742, Sprengtporten's constitution of 1786). Note that these attempts weren't motivated by nationalistic motifs but out of frustration with the domestic politics in the kingdom. The absolute monarchy was abolished in Sweden in 1719, basically due to the catastrophe that was the Great Northern War (especially in Finland). However, King Gustav III restored the old monarchy in a coup d'état of 1772 and launched more wars with Russia over the rule of the Baltic Sea. So it's probably no coincidence that the dissatisfaction grew especially in the eastern part of the kingdom throughout the 18th century. The final blow being the incompetence during the Finnish War of 1808.

And the position that Alexander I of Russia offered to "Finns" in 1809 was very favorable; by pledging loyalty in the Diet of Porvoo, the Grand Duchy got to keep its constitution, laws, language, religion, and even the taxes that it collected for itself. The first few decades of the Grand Duchy were critical in creating the path to independent Finland. And, of course, significant political changes happened in Sweden as well. Losing a third of the land area and a fourth of the population led to Sweden demanding their neighbor Norway as compensation in 1814

#sorry history nerd moment #but imo kalmar union and napoleonic wars are probably the most interesting eras to explore from the nordic personifications pov #hws finland #my art #historical hetalia

[exhausted-archivist]

Cassandra Pentaghast Timeline

A summarized and organized timeline of Cassandra's life. Summarizing the major points of Dawn of the Seeker; such as naming characters and such key events.

Warning in advance about some spoilers for Absolution as I quote a couple lines in the notes section.

9:04 Dragon

Cassandra is born in a carriage halfway between Cumberland and Val Chevin. She was raised in her family estate in Nevarra City until 9:10 Dragon.

9:10 Dragon

Lord Matthias and Lady Tigana, Cassandra and Anthony's parents, are executed by King Markus Pentaghast for taking the wrong side during the second attempt to overthrow the king. Cassandra and Anthony were spared from execution thanks to their uncle, their father's brother, Vestalus who was a senior member of the Mortalitasi who vouched for them and took them as his wards.

Cassandra and Anthony were moved to the Grand Necropolis in Nevarra.

9:12 Dragon

Vestalus was promoted to prelate of the Mortalitasi and overseer of the Grand Necropolis. This left Cassandra and Anthony by themselves more often, leaving them in isolation save for Nomi in the Chantry where Cassandra devoted her time.

Anthony and Cassandra started training in swordsmanship with asperations to becoming dragon hunters.

9:16 Dragon

Cassandra, at the age of 12*, witnesses her brother Anthony; a renowned dragon hunter, get beheaded at the hands of blood mages.

Cassandra begs to join the Templar Order when faced with a lack of justice for Anthony. Her uncle instead sends her to the Seekers of Truth.

She begins her training at the Seeker fortress of Montsimmard as an apprentice to Seeker Byron, a senior member. He focused on her religious education rather than her martial education.

9:19 Dragon

At the age of 15, Cassandra is the youngest Seeker to go through her vigil since the Storm Age. Her vigil takes place in a remote castle located within the Blasted Hills of Northern Orlais and lasts for two weeks.

9:22 Dragon

The following are the events of Dawn of the Seeker that take place. This is the briefest of summaries.

Cassandra and a group of Seekers attack a group of blood mages who abducted Avexis, an elven mage from the White Spire who has the ability to control beasts. The blood mages use a ritual to extend that power to controlling dragons. Byron, Cassandra's mentor and father figure, reveals to Cassandra a conspiracy within the Chantry as he is leaving the fortress with Cassandra and Avexis.

The three are attacked by blood mages, in wich Byrion dies and Avexis is kidnapped again. Cassandra is branded a traitor. Regalyan, a friend of Byrion and the contact they were to take Avexis to, is captured by Cassandra under the suspicion he is a blood mage. The pair is then captured by Templars and eventually make their escape. Cassandra's goal is to clear her name and discover proof of the conspiracy.

The conspiracy is that Knight-Commander Martel and Grand Cleric of Orlais, Callista, are working with the blood mages who intend to attack the 10 year gathering at the Grand Cathedral. Grand Cleric Callista and Knight-Commander Martel intend to unleash dragons on the Divine and gathered Grand Clerics during the ceremony so that Callista may become Divine as the last remaining Grand Cleric.

The conspiracy is thwarted by Cassandra, Regalyan, the Circle Mages, and additional Seekers. Cassandra kills two dragons and a high dragon. Saving the Divine.

As a reward for their actions, Cassandra is made the Right hand of the Divine and declared Hero of Orlais.

After the ceremony, Divine Beatrix III speaks with Cassandra about how the attack on the Gathering was only the beginning. Insisting that the Chantry must prepare for the coming storm before placing the holy writ into her hands. The writ that grants the Right and Left Hands of the Divine the authority to restore the Inquisition.

9:34 Dragon

Divine Beatrix III dies and Divine Justinia V is elected. Upon election, Divine Justinia V made a bit to retain Cassandra as her right hand. Pitching to Cassandra the multiple aspects of reform of the Chantry she wanted to do. Which Cassandra met with intrigue and accepted the role once more.

Leliana sent Cassandra a letter that speaks of her observations and how she welcomes the opportunity to work with Cassandra.

9:39 Dragon

Cassandra writes a letter to the now Lord Seeker Lucius, declaring she will not be joining the Seekers and will continue to work with the Divine.

There is an error with this as the Mage-Templar War didn't start until late autumn or winter of 9:40 Dragon. Seeker Lucius doesn't take over for Seeker Lambert until after the events of Asunder where Lambert is killed by Cole at the end of the book a few months later. Leaving the date of this letter to be 9:40 or 9:41.

9:40 Dragon

Cassandra interrogates Varric following the outbreak of the Mage-Templar War.

9:41 Dragon

Cassandra brings Varric and Cullen to Haven with Leliana, they both miss the chance to join the Divine at the beginning of the Conclave as they were delayed.

The Breach opens up and Cassandra leads soldiers into the valley to look for survivors. Her soldiers find the player character (PC Herald/Inquisitor) and the events of Inquisition begin.

Cassandra advocates with Leliana to approach the rebel mages for support with closing the Breach. If the player goes to Redcliffe and sees the situation, Cassandra's opinion will change to supporting the Templars.

Cassandra is investigating the disappearance of her fellow Seekers, her theory is they are prisoners of Corypheus.

Evidence is found that Samson/Calpernia sold the Seekers to the Order of Fiery Promise after finding out that the Seekers are resistant to red lyrium.

When Cassandra investigates the castle of Caer Oswin after tracking the Seekers there, she discovers that her apprentice Daniel, has been implanted with a demon and fed red lyrium. At this point, she discovers that it was Lord Seeker Lucius wh sold the Seekers to the Promisers and has been operating there the whole time. Cassandra then confronts Lucius and kills him in battle.

Procuring the Book of Secrets from the Lord Seeker, Cassandra learns the truth about the vigil. That Seekers were made tranquil and that it was only reversed once they were touched by a Spirit of Faith. This is what granted them their abilities and restored their minds. A fact she learns all Lord/Lady Seekers have known up until this point, and that Lord Seeker Lambert actively hid from the Divine.

Cassandra considers finding the scattered Seekers, reading the Book of Secrets with them, so there are no more secrets between them and establishing a new charter. She also wishes if there is a way to refine the process of reversing Tranquility on mages without the dangers that come with them being overcome by their emotions. The PC character will determine whether she actually does reform the Seekers and investigate the rite further.

If Divine:

Cassandra is said to enact reforms for a new Templar Order and Circle of Magi. She rebuilds the Seekers of truth and rededicates them to protecting the innocent, if the player encourages her. Her attempts of reform are controversial despite her popularity though are generally seen as successful efforts to stabilize peace.

If Not Divine:

She takes the position of advisor on the Divine's council, giving advice on important matters to Divine Victoria. Depending on if the Divine is Leliana or Vivienne dictates how long she stays. If the Divine is Leliana, she stays and works well with her as Cassandra holds respect for Leliana. If Vivienne is Divine, Cassandra eventually leaves disgusted, feeling that Vivienne is perverting the Chant of Light's intent.

9:42-9:44 Dragon

If Cassandra is Divine, she is working on efforts to clean up red lyrium and stating that it is going well.

If Cassandra is not Divine, and she is encouraged to rebuild the Seekers; a month before she returns to Orlais for Trespasser she is in the Hunterhorn Mountains tracking down Seeker Emery and finding leads on other Seekers in Rivian.

If Cassandra is not Divine and wasn't encouraged to rebuild the Seekers; she is in the port of Antiva City and completing a survey and establishes that there are no further signs of Fade energy or demons since the Inquisitor closed a rift there in the Spring. She confirms the Inquisition mages deem the Veil stable in the region. Cassandra also confirms that at this point, all rifts have finally been sealed.

Unclear

At some point, Cassandra aided a reaver named Nyree in defeating her first dragon. By doing so Nyree completed her Rite of Passage.

At some point prior to Cassandra's interrogation of Varric, the Seekers investigated the Vimmark Mountains that housed Corypheus and were turned away by the Grey Wardens and were told that everyone who had been in the prison were dead. Unclear if Cassandra was part of this investigation.

At some point in 9:41 during the Inquisition, Cassandra orders Sidony to return to Nevarra City and stop a Mortalitasi plot that is seeking to assassinate a member of the very unstable line of succession.

It is unclear when this occurred, as Absolution happens after Trespasser and that is about all that is established.** Cassandra and Leliana dispatch Fairbanks and Hira to steal an artifact from the Tevinter Imperium, the Circulum Infinitus.

Notes:

* Cassandra tells Sera that she was trained as a Seeker since she was 6. This is in conflict with a letter from Cassandra's uncle to the Seekers stating she was "even at the tender age of twelve, is too old to begin training with the Seekers". This is reinforced though dialogue the PC can have with her where she establishes she was training with the Seekers at a far older age than most recruits, and was able to do so because of her status.

** The Interview establishes this (emphasis by me)

"Despite its relative proximity to Dreadwolf, though, Absolution intentionally doesn’t try to use its time establishing any real sort of canon for players to latch onto. Some characters from the prior games show up for a spell, and events are broadly mentioned, but Epler (who also serves as Dreadwolf’s creative director) admitted that it was important to avoid setting a definitive canon." He acknowledged it as a “tricky balancing act,” in part because BioWare making its own canon runs the risk of conflicting with the canon players make on their own, and the studio’s word being potentially declared definitive gospel is the last thing anyone wanted. Similarly, there was a desire to make sure Absolution stood on its own, explicit ties to the games or no. “There’s all these elements that make up Thedas and what’s going on,” said Epler. “We were fine with leaving space for these stories to exist and feed into a larger world as a whole.”

Up until the Dragon Age cookbook, there was no establishment of the BioWare canon or the game default. Which are at times two separate things, but do overlap in areas. But the difference between the two is for another conversation.

Additionally some lines in Absolution are about all we have in regards to the fact it definitely happens after Trespasser.

"Before the Inquisition ended, we learned the Tevinter Chantry was in possession of an artefact. The Circulum Infinitus." ep1. , 7:50ish

"Rezaren is dead. I have the Circulum. It's over, if you want it to be. You were right, Hira. Tevinter is an evil place, and I know what it feels like for that hate and that fear to infect you, but... you can't let it. Help me take the Circulum to what's left of the Inqusition and we can try again, free from everything." ep.6, 21:40ish

Source:

World of Thedas Vol. 1 p. 143 World of Thedas Vol. 2 p. 220-223 Dragon Age: Inquisition Dialogue Dragon Age: Dawn of the Seeker Dragon Age: Redemption Interview with Absolution showrunner Mairighread Scott and EP John Epler by io9

Codex:

Cassandra Pentaghast Cassandra and the Last Few Years

#dragon age #dragon age lore #cassandra #cassandra pentaghast #dragon age dawn of the seeker #dragon age redemption #dragon age inquisition #world of thedas #dragon age absolution #dawn of the seeker #da:dots #da:r #dai #absolution #absolution spoilers

[confusedfoam]

Some dndads travel headcanons, because why not it's summer and it's traveling season for lots of us. only did s1 dads because they unfortunately still own my heart.

Darryl

- He has left southern California like twice in his life, and both were just going up to northern California. once for his and Carol's honeymoon, and another time when grant was like 8ish to finally go visit Casey and see her brewery.

- Absolutely despised sleeping anywhere that's not his home. the few times he's had to stay at a hotel / families house he just can't sleep at all

- He has never been on an airplane and has absolutely no desire to do so. If he ever did go on an airplane he would be a disaster internally and externally that would come out as being extremely over prepared and way too early. also he would Suffer in airplane seats.

Ron

- Was dragged all up and down the west coast and some of the interior as a little kid before Willy got completely sick of traveling with his wife and kid and dumped them back in Stud's old house that he technically still owned but had been let sit for years.

- Good at short and long road trips, weirdly bad at anything in the 4-6 hour range. it's not long enough to him to really settle into the drive but is too long to be remotely casual.

- Deeply fond of sketchy dates motels and kitschy roadside attractions. Will absolutely buy cheesy tourist t-shirts if presented the opportunity.

- Also not really an airplane guy, never had much of an opportunity until he was grown and then had no one to travel with. But if he did fly he would be that guy who doesn't bring anything to do with him and just watches other people's movies over their shoulders. also he'd forget to take his belt off going through airport security.

Henry

- Never left the Oakvale area as a kid, so his first trip was a Big One

- Spent his early earth years road tripping around the US, hitting different national parks and such. Falling absolutely in love with the diversity of nature when you don't spend all your time in one patch of forest. He absolutely Lost His Mind at the Grand Canyon

- Continued to travel a lot as he and Mercedes got older and had the kids and everything, they loved taking the boys to different parks and camp sites and such.

- Also really enjoyed traveling internationally once he got his whole paperwork situation sorted.

- Was pretty freaked out about flying the first couple times, but now he's a pro. Unfortunately he is an incredibly chatty seat mate and also one of those people who wears sandals without socks on an airplane. so he puts his bare feet all over the floor at security

Glenn

- Traveled a very average amount as a kid, just little family vacations. Tagged along with where ever Bill was going during summer breaks as a younger teen.

- Drove all over the freaking country as an older teen / young man seeing various shows and trying catch The Glenn Close Trios big break.

- Shares Ron's fondness for weird little tourist traps and questionable attractions / restaurants

- Extremely pro car camping, if only for all the hazy memories of doing so in his youth.

- Would make sure that somehow he could block out a week or so to take a road trip with Nick somewhere during summer break.

- Flew a few times as a kid and such. Absolutely hates flying as an adult, it brings out the conspiracy theories in him hardcore and he absolutely cannot do it sober.

Jodie

- Hell does not have vacations

- Traveled many realms as a young and wild demon, having misadventures of the sort that get you trapped in a guitar

- as Jodie Foster the human cop and married man they only took incredibly basic family vacations to the stereotypical vacation spots like once a year.

- Has no feelings on airplanes in any particular direction, besides he would like more leg room.

#hey look actual semi normal content and not weird physics theories what do you know #sitting next to any one of these men on an airplane is a chilling idea in a unique way for each of them #glenn hates planes so much he would rather take the mulitday roadtrip if he wanted to go to Disney in Florida #henry oak #darryl wilson #ron stampler #glenn close #jodie foster #jodie foster dndads #dndads #dungeons and daddies #dndaddies

[daenystheedreamer]

‘lgbtabcd alphabet community too many letters har har har’ you’d fucking die fucking brain explosion DIE if you read asoiaf. asoiaf got hotd grrm d&d agot acok asos affc adwd twow ados f&b twoiaf awoiaf tsoiaf r+l=j n+a=j d+d=t bwb 3EC COTF rw wot5k KOTLT toj ptwp ymbq tdotd kitn LF YG NK BF BR CH LS KL KG WF NW. both use gnc though gender non-conforming 🤝 grand northern conspiracy

#all the ones i could think of. theres more #asoiaf #valyrianscrolls #full acronym explanation in the notes btw!

[atopvisenyashill]

What are your thoughts on pol!jon? I’m no fan of j/d but pol!jon feels so out of character and cruel that I really can’t see it

Oof okay that’s an interesting question.

I think there's a lot of elements to the political!jon theory that people tend to just conflate into one big theory similar to how the grand northern conspiracy has some parts that are a little galaxy brained and some stuff that makes perfect sense and has a lot of grounding in the text.

So for anyone who is unaware - I know a lot of my oomfs didn't get into the series until after the show stopped airing - the pol!jon theory came from s7 of the show to explain the absolutely inconsistent and stupid decisions jon makes in s7 and s8. The idea was that, basically, like Torrhen Stark before him, Jon Snow bent the knee to Daenerys at Dragonstone not because he actually wants the North to be tied to the Iron Throne again or because he's loyal to Daenerys but rather because he is attempting to manipulate her; when he realizes that she will not come North to save his people but did cross the Wall to save him he makes the decision to seduce her in order to bring her to the North to defend his people.

Now...a lot of people really dislike this theory. They feel it's too cruel of Jon to do, it's OOC, I've even seen some people say that any sex between them is noncon (which...aight), etc etc. I do understand to a certain point why people think it's out of character for Jon to do this but the thing is...he literally has already done something very similar in canon. Look at his relationship with Ygritte:

Two hearts that beat as one. Mance Rayder’s mocking words rang bitter in his head. Jon had seldom felt so confused. I have no choice, he’d told himself the first time, when she slipped beneath his sleeping skins. If I refuse her, she will know me for a turncloak. I am playing the part the Halfhand told me to play. His body had played the part eagerly enough. His lips on hers, his hand sliding under her doeskin shirt to find a breast, his manhood stiffening when she rubbed her mound against it through their clothes. My vows, he’d thought, remembering the weirwood grove where he had said them, the nine great white trees in a circle, the carved red faces watching, listening. But her fingers were undoing his laces and her tongue was in his mouth and her hand slipped inside his smallclothes and brought him out, and he could not see the weirwoods anymore, only her. She bit his neck and he nuzzled hers, burying his nose in her thick red hair. Lucky, he thought, she is lucky, fire-kissed. “Isn’t that good?” she whispered as she guided him inside her. She was sopping wet down there, and no maiden, that was plain, but Jon did not care. His vows, her maidenhood, none of it mattered, only the heat of her, the mouth on his, the finger that pinched at his nipple. “Isn’t that sweet?” she said again. “Not so fast, oh, slow, yes, like that. There now, there now, yes, sweet, sweet. You know nothing, Jon Snow, but I can show you. Harder now. Yessss.” A part, he tried to remind himself afterward. I am playing a part. I had to do it once, to prove I’d abandoned my vows. I had to make her trust me. It need never happen again. He was still a man of the Night’s Watch, and a son of Eddard Stark. He had done what needed to be done, proved what needed to be proven.

Now, I don't think this is rape on either side but it's certainly uncomfortable, dubious consent wise, and not meant to be just a straight romantic scene. Ygritte isn't aware - though she does suspect - that Jon hasn't truly joined their side. Ygritte feels he's holding onto his vows out of stubborn pride or perhaps ignorance; she does not suspect he's actually going to betray them, but she can tell he's clearly conflicted over his desertion. Jon, meanwhile, is only having sex with Ygritte to prove he's a true deserter; he is actively manipulating her by playing on her fondness for him and invoking Wildlings customs like bride stealing when they have sex here.

So the idea that political!Jon is out of character doesn't really work because while Jon is clearly guilt ridden over it, he can and has used sex and romance as a manipulation tactic before. As for it being too cruel, well, let's ask Gilly about Jon's capacity for cruelty then hmm?

“You will make a crow of him.” She wiped at her tears with the back of a small pale hand. “I won’t. I won’t.” Kill the boy, thought Jon. “You will. Else I promise you, the day that they burn Dalla’s boy, yours will die as well.”

Jon is quite capable of cruelty when he wants to be just as surely as he's capable of manipulation. This doesn't mean he doesn't feel guilt or that he doesn't care for the people he manipulates. On the contrary, I think part of why Ygritte continuously echoes in Jon's mind as a sort of mentor figure is because of the guilt he feels for leading Ygritte straight to her death. When Ygritte briefly opens up to him about a past abusive relationship, he doesn't dismiss her at all, and seems to make an effort to otherwise be kind, affectionate, and loving to her. He's just also planning on betraying her because he feels the Wildlings as they are currently organized are too dangerous to just be set free on the unsuspecting North (and he's not wrong - his alliance forces the Wildlings to put down their arms, yes, but it also empowers the Wildlings to come to the negotiation table as equals, as people of Westeros rather than as nameless, faceless barbarians).

So no, I don't really think it's OOC for Jon to realize that the enemy he is facing is too dangerous to deal with as is but if he maneuvers them in such a way that they have to listen to him and negotiate as equals, he can keep his own people safe while in a prime position to deal with the threat if it gets out of control. He is also capable of ruthlessness - the entire battle at the ending of ASOS, killing Qhorin, the baby swap, killing Janos Slynt, etc - and cruelty and sexual manipulation.

I also think - and basically everyone agrees, it's not just me - that their "romance" is written incredibly badly and weirdly. So much so that I think it made sense that people would wonder if Jon has an ulterior motive. I reblogged this gifset to my personal a few years ago and you can really see Jon is just over everything that's happening on Dragonstone, he's incredibly unimpressed with Dany, he refuses to even indulge in her fantasies the way he does with Ygritte (like when Ygritte makes that "oh let's disappear into the caves" comment, Jon is wistful! He brings it up as she's dying to comfort both of them! He doesn't like what he's been doing even though he feels it's necessary!), and I know Kit has never been particularly gifted at emoting but he looks just straight up miserable the entire time he's with Dany.

So...even back in s7, I didn't think Jon was actively plotting to murder Dany but I did think he was manipulating her to get the end goal he wanted (protection for the North) and that there was a high chance he was going to turn on her later when the time was right. It wasn't like he was thinking "alright so once the Long Night is ended, here's my twelve step plan to get Dany off the throne and murder her" but I do think he felt like well, once the Long Night is dealt with, there's still a lot of other problems we have to deal with and who knows what might happen as those problems arise. I never thought he was interested in her long term. Some people seemed to think that was beyond the pale but like, that's literally how he felt about Ygritte - he never considered this a long term relationship even if it was a serious one.

If we get anything like that in the books - Jon seducing Dany to get close to her dragons - I generally imagine it going that once he figures out how to ride one of the dragons, he just makes off with it and leaves her high and dry. Maybe he plays up the "we're the blood of the dragon" angle as a distraction of some sort. But like - is he actively manipulating her specifically to usurp her? No. But is he worried about the North and willing to once again put his sexuality, emotions, honor, and body on the line to protect it? Yeah, I think that was the initial plan when they wrote s7 and if Joner.ys happens, I do imagine it's going to go like that; not actively trying to kill her (anymore than he was actively trying to kill Ygritte) but definitely using her feelings for him to get the goal he's aiming for (protection for the North).

#asks #anons #like people say it's too cruel and then dead ass turn around and say daemon had no ulterior motives for seducing rhaenyra #it's simply more complex than that. people can do things for more than one reason. #exactly like with corlys and rhaenys. we can acknowledge the political and the emotional #political jon #also if anyone reads this and wants to give me their opinion on ygritte. pls keep it in your drafts buddy. i do not care. #i do not like *anyone's* opinions on her except mine i think you're all weird.

[greenhikingboots]

More about the Mad Mouse

So a few weeks ago during excitement about the new outline reveal, I posted a few mini metas / speculation pieces. In one, I said — not for the first time — that I’m in favor of the Howland Reed = Ser Shadrich the Mad Mouse theory. Now I’m finally back to share my favorite canon evidence. (Clarity! This isn’t a comprehensive list of evidence for the theory. It’s a post to focus on one piece I haven’t seen discussed before). I’ve already posted about it once or twice, but always buried in longer posts with tangentially related, more tinfoil-y theories, so I assume most people never read far enough to see this part. But you really, really, really need to see this part. To get to Ser Shadrich I first need to talk about Lyn Cobray. Recall that in AFFC there’s a moment where he threatens Littlefinger, but Littlefinger later tells Sansa not to worry, it was an act; Littlefinger is paying Lyn to fein hatred, join every conspiracy against him and report back.

Okay. So. In TWOW Alayne/Sansa chapter, she and Myranda talk with Lyn. Basically, the reader finds out that Lyn is pretending to be unhappy with Littlefinger because it’s his fault Lyn won’t be his brother's heir much longer. Littlefinger helped Lyn’s brother find a second, more fertile wife after his first wife died, and now a baby is on the way to push Lyn to a lower rank.

Got it? Okay, good. Because right after that part in TWOW chapter, there’s this absolutely insane line that needs to be dissected. *

“The venom in his voice was so thick that for a moment [Sansa] almost forgot that Lyn Corbray was actually her father’s catspaw, bought and paid for. Or was he? Perhaps, instead of being Petyr’s man pretending to be Petyr’s foe, he was actually his foe pretending to be his man pretending to be his foe.” *

Whaaaaat? What's Martin doing here? Why have Sansa think this line? What purpose does it serve? Sure, you can argue it’s just to make readers watch out for Lyn, to be suspicious of him and on the lookout for what he’ll do in upcoming chapters. I think that could be a large part of it. But I don’t think that’s *all* of it. Because guess what happens next?

“Just thinking about it was enough to make her head spin. [Sansa] turned abruptly from the yard… and bumped into a short, sharp-faced man with a brush of orange hair who had come up behind her. His hand shot out and caught her arm before she could fall.”

That’s right, team. Right after Sansa thinks the insane thing about Lyn being a friend or a foe, who should appear but Ser Shadrich the Mad Mouse!? 

Who is definitely Howland Reed. Because check this out: * “Perhaps, instead of being Petyr’s man (a hedge knight Petyr is paying for) pretending to be is foe (telling Brienne he’s working for Varys when they met in AFFC), he was actually his foe (a Stark loyalist trying to save Sansa) pretending to be his man (again, a hedge knight) pretending to be his foe (again, lying to Brienne).” *

I mean, honestly that’s enough to convince me. But also the alternative just doesn’t carry a lot of weight in my opinion.

If Ser Shadrich really is working for Varys but Sansa is going to make it to the North despite his attempt to intervene, then how much is he serving the story? Just one more enemy for her to overcome among so many? Plausible enough, I guess, but boring.

Whereas the Howland Reed theory? If it’s true, it could support elements of the Grand Northern Conspiracy — and if we’ve got Stark supporters tracking down Rickon, so why not Stark supporters tracking down Sansa — as well as support elements of R+L=J and Jonsa (or complicate the reveal as speculated in my earlier link).

I get that there are so many secret identity theories that they get tiring and tempting to dismiss. But GRRM certainly isn’t shying away from using them to explore themes and advance plots. So before you shoot down the idea, I hope you’ll at least consider an avenue where this theory could be true and done well.

And if it turns out to be true, I hope you’ll all say, “Hey, Green called one right!” ;)

Thank you and goodnight.  (other posts inspired by the latest outline reveal: 1 and 2)

#twow speculation #howland reed #asoiaf theories #ser shadrich the mad mouse #finally wrote it

[mneiai]

(I'll be doing a crack theory poll after this one)

#asoiaf #asoiaf theories #polls

[visenyaism]

eliseeeee have you done a theory rubric about the grand northern conspiracy? 👀

i really thought i did but all i have appears to be like 3 different ones about the pink letter