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silver-wield · 4 years

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Cloud had every opportunity to validate his relationship between he and Tifa. He doesn’t tell aerith who he gave the flower to and when aerith asks if tifa is his girlfriend he’s quick to say no and when she says “she’s something special, right?” And he says “it’s not like that” that doesn’t sound like someone who’s in love... yet when Tifa questions the relationship he has with aerith, he can’t even answer... As a cloti fan I don’t think I can shobghis anymore... 😔

Ok, let’s breakdown how Cloud’s behaviour works again.

Not that some people understand that having mental illness and crafting a false persona to protect their own psyche means they do things that are contradictory to their own true feelings at times. They seem to think SOLDIER Cloud is another way of saying “He’S jUsT zAcK”. Which isn’t that at all and they need to stop purposely misunderstanding the point.

SPOILERS FOR CLOUD’S ENTIRE BACKSTORY.

Cloud: introverted, socially awkward, no father figure, low self-esteem, lives in a very small town with little culture and few kids his age. Of those kids, the majority don’t like him because they’re assholes (yeah I said it).

Tifa: childhood friend and crush, who isn’t an asshole to him because she’s a literal fucking sweetheart (don’t even try and @ me). Shy, reserved, polite, kind, also can be reckless af.

Age 8, Tifa’s mother dies and she gets it into her head that she can go visit her at the top of mt Nibel because that’s where she gets the impression the lifestream touches the planet.

Cloud (9), follows her and her friends up the mountain and stays with her as they chicken out. He and Tifa have an accident, which results in Tifa being unconscious for 7 days. During that time she’s unconscious (but yknow some ppl say she should’ve still cleared up the misunderstanding WHILE UNCONSCIOUS, despite never learning of it even after she woke up), her friends throw Cloud under the bus to her father as the reason why she went there. Tifa’s father puts all the blame for it on him (douchebag move, but he’s an upset parent who’s just lost his wife and now doesn’t know if his daughter will live or die. I’m not excusing him, but he’s got reasons other than “let’s victimise Cloud”.) Tifa’s father tells Cloud that if he isn’t capable of protecting her then he should keep his distance.

Cloud resolves to become stronger and thanks to Stamp propaganda and Sephiroth hero worship he decides to become a SOLDIER.

Tifa never says anything about this being what she wants. She likes Cloud just as he is.

Skip forward a few years and Cloud’s 14, has kept his word not to hang out with Tifa, not that it stops her wanting his attention.

The promise scene occurs, where Cloud tries to get Tifa to admit she likes him and Tifa gets Cloud to promise to return to town just once so she can see him again (because these idiots have no idea they mutually like each other in a romantic sense).

Skip forward another 2 years.

Cloud (16) isn’t a SOLDIER, but he’s got to go to Nibelheim with Zack and Sephiroth. He hides from Tifa, ashamed that he isn’t the man he promised he’d become.

Tifa (15) who’s massively disappointed Cloud wasn’t with them, ends up seriously injured by Sephiroth after he loses his marbles.

Cloud appears and saves her, killing Sephiroth.

Zangan takes Tifa away from Nibelheim - and good thing too or she’d have ended up a test subject with the others.

Cloud and Zack are stuffed in chambers to be experimented on.

4 years go by and Zack saves Cloud who’s suffering mako poisoning. They make it to Midgar, which takes around a year, where Zack then dies, leaving his sword to Cloud.

Cloud still suffering from mako poisoning and now also with PTSD and all his other previous issues, shambles into Midgar where Tifa finds him.

Here’s the bit people like to misunderstand.

Cloud is infected with Jenova cells, which warp his perception and make him susceptible to Sephiroth’s control. (This is proven by a moment at the end of the game where Cloud’s hand twitches in response to Sephiroth asking for his help)

Zack told Cloud a lot of stories, both before he was poisoned and after. These combined with Jenova’s mind warping, the mako poisoning itself and Cloud’s own severe trauma allowed him to craft a false persona for himself, which he needed to protect his real psyche from a further mental breakdown.

Cloud is a mentally ill protagonist.

Cloud uses the SOLDIER persona he’s crafted as a shield to function in daily life. He’s unaware of what he’s done. He believes SOLDIER!Cloud is the only psyche. We get to see real!Cloud on screen at the beginning of Chapter 8 asking SOLDIER!Cloud if he’s ok. Real!Cloud specifically refers to the childhood event on mt Nibel with Tifa where he “got away with scraped knees”. SOLDIER!Cloud doesn’t know what he’s talking about because it’s a real!Cloud memory and not one he’s privy to. Any time SOLDIER!Cloud tries reconnecting to his true self he ends up in pain. He’s not ready to be whole yet.

Behind the shield is an emotionally stunted, very ill man who spent four years as a lab rat, suffered countless traumas, witnessed his home burned and saw the girl he loved stabbed. The real Cloud is a weak, flawed human being who isn’t in a good enough head space to function, let alone do all the things that’s needed of him during events in the game.

Cloud doesn’t think he’s Zack. The only time that argument can even be used is in a 23 year old game that has clear script problems all over the place. That information is outdated and been debunked several times over.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Now, onto the points you raised.

Cloud cannot connect his real persona and the feelings he has for Tifa with this false persona he has. The SOLDIER persona acts as both a shield and a wall preventing things from affecting the real!Cloud behind it. Nothing gets in or out. That’s why Cloud can’t articulate his feelings for Tifa. It’s not because he doesn’t feel anything for her, it’s because he can’t connect to those feelings until after he’s reunited the fractured parts of his psyche -- which only happens because of Tifa during the lifestream sequence. It’s then he’s able to get back in touch with those feelings and express them. It’s not because they don’t exist. He never, at any point, in 7R says he doesn’t have feelings for Tifa. He says she’s not his girlfriend - fact, she isn’t. He says in response to Aerith asking “she’s someone special” that “it’s not like that” but then gets cut off, like every other point in the game where he’s about to try and explain his feelings. He doesn’t know how he feels because those feelings belong to real!Cloud and not SOLDIER!Cloud. We get a clear view of how Real!Cloud feels about Tifa during the plate fall. At several points, the urge to comfort Tifa is seen. That’s not SOLDIER!Cloud’s urge, it’s real!Cloud’s. When he sees her crying during Jessie’s cut scene, when he sees her on her knees at the top of the plate, when his hand twitches as Barret hugs her. All of these are canon non-optional moments that build a picture of real!Cloud wanting to express his feelings to Tifa, but not being able to. The resolution is the culmination of those feelings. He takes his time hugging her back because the SOLDIER persona is trying to protect him still, but the real!Cloud breaks through long enough to hug her. And he does so hard because he needs comfort. He’s gone through so much that he’s broken inside. That’s why he hugs her until it hurts. Because he hurts.

His response to Tifa’s question about Aerith isn't shipping. Tifa’s first words when she wakes are an urgent affirmation to get home and save the slum. Cloud agrees. She then asks Cloud how he knows Aerith, after expressing concern she'll get hurt by going with them. Tifa and Cloud are eco terrorists and as far as she knows Aerith is a normal girl. Nobody would want a civilian dragged into danger. And Cloud has been in Midgar for four days and spent most of them with Avalanche and Tifa. She's curious how they're friends because she knows Cloud isn't a people person. Cloud explains Aerith saved him, but when? It's clearer in the JP because the phrasing is that Cloud was in the kind of danger that worries Tifa. She wants to know what kind of danger Cloud would get into that he couldn't handle. Well he's not talking physical danger. He's talking about how Aerith helped him save Tifa. Because that's the kind of dork he is. He's referring to the phrase Aerith said to Sam about making sure Cloud wouldn't have to live without Tifa. That's what he means by her saving his life. Because he can't live without Tifa. So, it's obvious why that's not made a bigger deal of in disc one.

He doesn’t tell Aerith who he gave the flower to because it’s none of her goddamn business. She’s a stranger being nosy. He’s got no obligation to tell her what he did with it. If someone you met twice start sticking their nose in your personal business you’d be cagey too. That’s a meaningless moment that certain people cling to because they’re idiots.

Sorry, this got long. Hope it clears a few things up though. I probably missed a few details here and there.

TLDR: Cloud has mental illness and isn’t capable of love due to a fractured psyche, so can’t answer anyone when they ask.

#final fantasy 7 remake spoilers #Character analysis #Cloud strife #tw: mental illness #ship war

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ignatius1 · 3 years

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So the D's, after spending the last four years attempting to find some way to impeach Trump, were not partisan?

So what did the D's do to end partisan politics? Both sides had the ability to end it at any time. Why did the D's go the route of the most partisan action of them all, Impeachment? Knowing full well that with a R controlled Senate they had no chance to Impeach. So was it just for show? To prove that they could or would?

It seems that Trump was getting things moving. Jobs, economy, China trade, no new Wars and he was gaining popularity. So the D's had to stop that or risk losing the House and seeing Trump re-elected.

But there was No Impeachment.

All was lost on the D side. All their yelling and screaming and name calling did no good.

Then lo and behold here comes a little bug that saves the day.

Now the D's energies were re-newed. Attack Trump for cutting off air travel. He is a racist. Attack him for PPE shortages. Attack him for lack of ventilators. Attack him for not knowing exactly what to do when even the Scientists were guessing.

Hell Pelosi was inviting ppl out to party in crowded places. Masks were not even on the table.

But it was all Trump's fault.

Trump told the Govenors to put infected ppl in nursing homes.

Now Biden is calling for travel to be restricted from the UK to US. But that is ok. JB is doing it to Britain. That is ok because we know who lives in Britain, mostly.

But wait. Aren't there POC who are British Citizens? So isn't this just a backhanded way for JB to deny entry to POC?

And let's move on to the media. America's bright spot. No bias. No open disdain for either party or ppl in general. The ones we can always rely on to give us the details and let us form our own opinions. That's a joke. No matter which national news you watch it is like a combination of Springer, your drunk Uncle and your least favorite teacher giving you a lecture. At least with the news you can change channels and watch DIY something.

Then they say it will take Decades to undo what Trump did. Like what? Create jobs? Get Trade with all countries more even? Have all countries pay fair share of NATO? Call Iran what it is, a terrorist state.? Let US become energy independent? Less regulations? Control illegal immigration? Just to name some.

Trump definitely has some issues. But all in all before the Covid things were positive.

If not for the Covid, Trump would not have lost.

The only thing that Trump had to be concerned about before Covid was the economy faltering. Americans do not vote out an Administration that has a healthy and growing economy. Why would they.?

All we can do now is wait and see. Will Biden spend his time in office complaining about Trump or getting on with the hand he was dealt and building for the future.

We shall see. He has 2 years. Maybe a D Senate and House.

It is harder to govern than to find fault with those that are governing.

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fursasaida · 4 years

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this is totes random sorry pls feel free to ignore but is there a 'STATE' that's completely independent from like elected government, heads of state, partisan politics etc.. like what's this state that some ppl talk abt that doesn't include the elected president? e.g."korea and france have greater deference to state." is there polisci literature/concept on this? what is this STATE that doesn't include the president or CDC head nominated by said president? im sorry im just so ignorant of polisci

This is not at all an ignorant question! This is a huge issue people argue about--maybe less in poli sci than in other social sciences, because poli sci has gone so completely up its own quantitative ass that it has abandoned what should be its obvious theoretical domain and so other disciplines have kind of taken over this kind of question. There are full professors who cannot answer this question (I know because some of them are on my listservs).

So: what is the state. Seriously, really, there is no one widely accepted answer to this. So I’ll go through a few of them under the cut for you. This ended up being really long because it’s something I’ve been thinking about lately, so the simplest, shortest answer to your question is the first one.

1. Institutions

In this view, “the state” means the institutions and bureaucracy that stay on when political leadership changes. The political leadership is called either “the regime” when we want to imply it’s evil or “the administration” or “the government” when we don’t. (I think this terminology is silly and “the regime” should mean the whole arrangement plus some other things--as in a regime of power--without negative or positive implications, but I don’t make the rules.)

Obviously these two things are not firewalled apart. Elected officials can alter the state through policy and/or direct reforms (creating, merging, or eliminating existing state organizations), and the existing state can constrain what elected officials can do through anything from ethics laws to bureaucratic foot-dragging. (In the US context, when we talk about “political appointees,” we mean high-level officials in “the state” that get appointed by elected leaders, but they take over organizations generally staffed by people who have come up through the bureaucracy and are supposed to be “apolitical,” i.e. just there to do a technical/bureaucratic job. So that’s another way that the two blur.) A great example of this would be what happened with the US’s Syria policy under Trump. Trump (”the administration”) wanted to pull out of Syria. The Pentagon, The State Department, various diplomatic branches, etc. (”the state”) did not. The state succeeded in putting him off executing his desired policy for years, even though as the Commander In Chief Trump in theory had really extensive authority to do whatever he wanted. Eventually he exercised that authority and state officials found themselves scrambling madly to try and salvage something of their preferred policy, which is how the US military ended up with this ridiculous non-presence in NE Syria. Another example would be the attempt to take down the USPS.

That’s why partisan politics and elected leaders are excluded from “the state” in this view; “the state” forms the organizational containers that those movements and individuals fill, and the structures they seek to act on or act from. You can think of it like the ground they stand on. This doesn’t have to mean it is itself “apolitical,” since the terrain has implications for everyone standing on it, but it is the object or delivery channel of politics, not politics itself. (Again I don’t agree with this, but it’s what you’re seeing reflected in the discourse you’re talking about.)

When people go on about “the deep state” they’re espousing a conspiratorial version of this view, where they think the ~real behind-the-scenes power lies in these institutions and the long-term bureaucrats who (sometimes) staff and run them. Definitely some power does lie there, but the conspiracists overweigh this into an Elders of Zion type thing.

2. A sovereign entity.

This is more about distinguishing states from other kinds of political entities, and as a result it’s less concerned with fine distinctions about what is and isn’t “political.” The idea is that there are lots of political structures and systems in the world (anything from tribal law to international associations like NATO) but not all of them are states. States are distinguished from other things by virtue of sovereignty. The classic definition (from Max Weber) of sovereignty is “a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence within a clearly bounded territory.” In other words, a state’s police, military, national guard, security forces, etc. have a license to use violence within its borders that no one else has--anyone else engaging in violence is a criminal. It is these groups’ status as “agents of the state” that grants them this license. The bordered, yes/no territorial nature of this status--Turkish security forces have no mandate to act in Greece and vice versa--is also distinctive; fixed, defined, cartographic borders are not necessarily a given. In this view, all power and indeed all law is ultimately founded in violence (enforcement), so what matters is who/what can use force with impunity. (When the state’s monopoly on force is challenged in its territory--e.g., Hizballah making war on Israel without the Lebanese army, the original Zapatistas forming a breakaway region during the Mexican Civil War, or any occupation by a foreign force--then the state’s sovereignty is “weakened” or “under attack,” etc.)

Lots of people have criticized and elaborated on this definition. I don’t want to go on forever about all the critiques that exist, but basically in reality, sovereignty is not a yes/no binary where either you have it completely or you don’t have it at all. Things tend to be more mixed and blurry. It also has more dimensions: two important examples are 1) controlling and disposing of the territory itself (exploiting natural resources, moving people around, etc.), and 2) recognition. In many cases, the difference between a state and a non-state is whether other states recognize it as such, i.e. act like it is one. So for example, the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus exercises sovereignty and has a state bureaucracy, elections, etc., but because it is not recognized by ~the international community~ it isn’t “a state.” (This isn’t just semantics; it may seem arbitrary when you just think about what goes on inside the TRNC, but when its citizens try to emigrate, for example, they encounter very specific, concrete problems on this basis--e.g., their passports will not be recognized as valid.)

I find this more useful personally, especially because it doesn’t assume a liberal democratic state--it can apply to a dictatorship or a monarchy or whatever you like. But in practice, i.e. how people use it, I still think this approach is frequently too worried about pinning down differences that aren’t always useful. On the one hand, I wrote my BA thesis about how Hamas and Hizballah aren’t states (it was common for a while to refer to them as “states within states”) while also not just being political parties, terrorist organizations, service providers, or any of the other things they get tagged with, precisely because of the way they relate to the Palestinian and Lebanese states. This is worth understanding because it helps explain their political projects and their successes. On the other hand, I don’t think it’s very helpful to go around arguing that, say, ISIS was a state (or state-like) and the Houthis are not because of some detail of how they think/thought about territory, or courts, or bureaucracy. Like what do you get out of making that distinction. If you want to argue that a tribal council somewhere is “the state” for its context I think that’s fine depending on what you’re trying to get at. It all depends on what kind of question you want to answer, and on what scale.

3. There’s no such thing.

This view recognizes that the state is a salad bowl full of different organizations, individuals, ideologies, etc. that do not actually all work in lockstep together or have the same goals. To talk about “the state” is to reinforce the fallacy of unified power and cooperation. Instead, we should recognize that actors within states have their own agendas, institutional cultures, power struggles, etc., and that whatever the state does is the outcome of 1) these internal dynamics, 2) the ability of different external actors (from citizens to foreign governments) to play on/appeal to/push back against different pieces of the state, and 3) the interactions of 1 and 2.

This to me is common sense. You just have to be careful not to take it too far. We can acknowledge that the state is internally differentiated/not any one single thing without going so far away from what most people understand about their worlds. There’s no point saying “there’s no such thing as a state” when people still have to pay taxes.

4. "The state effect,” or: there both is and is not any such thing

This idea, put forward by Tim Mitchell, is my favorite. It is also the subtlest, and a little tricky to explain, but I think it’s the most useful.

This view steps back and looks at all the endless, elaborate debates about every possible nicety of “stateness” and says: perhaps we are asking the wrong question here. Maybe it doesn’t matter what the state is. Maybe it matters what the state seems to be; how it seems to be that; and what “resources of power” are generated by these impressions.

This is the tricky explanation part, so bear with me for a few paragraphs.

Where exactly do we draw the line between “the state” and “civil society”? Are NGOs and nonprofits part of the state? What if they get government funding? Especially in a neoliberal context, when so much policymaking is done through contractors, consultants, tax breaks, etc., are these kinds of organizations not carrying out the state’s agenda, consciously or otherwise? Okay, that’s tough, let’s try something easier: individual people and families aren’t the state. But if a household depends on an income from state employment, does that not affect their politics and their actions in society? Is a person “part of the state” in one building and not in another? How do we account for the way off-duty cops behave, for example, then? You can do this same exercise for “the economy” or any of the other things that are supposedly separate things/domains that the state manages. How can, e.g., the American economy be separate from the state when the state prints and guarantees the currency, sets interest rates, enforces contracts, and generally sets the terms on which the economy can exist? (Going back to your original question, you could probably also do this same exercise re: political parties, or partisanship.)

The point here is not that absolutely everything is actually the state. The point is also not that there is no state. It’s that there are not firm lines. Amazon may be the state when it builds systems for the Pentagon even though it is also, clearly, a private company and not part of the state’s institutions or subject to the same kinds of political controls that state institutions are. Similarly, the state itself is not one smooth solid object (as in #3). But it seems obvious, common sense, that “the economy” is a thing, just as “public health” is a thing, etc., and both of these things are objects of state management/governance/power.

This makes it easy for political leadership to make claims on the basis of these other things as separate “objects.” I.e., “we need to take drastic action to save the economy.” So the impression of these divisions can be used to justify or legitimate state action. You can see this super clearly in the current coronavirus situation. How many times have we been told the US has to “reopen” for “the economy,” and how many times has it been pointed out that the government could just take its own economic measures to allow people to stay home--because “the economy” is not some separate object that works by itself. (I myself had to explain to a friend that the government couldn’t just switch the economy back on by “reopening.” I think we underestimate how powerful these conceptual divisions really are in people’s understanding of how the world works.)

So, therefore, “the state” is the effect of ideas and practices that make things that political leaders and institutions do seem like they form a freestanding, separate structure, a thing, that we call “the state.” It is the ensemble of all these pieces (as noted in #3), and said pieces often include things that are generally thought of as not the state; these lines between state/nonstate shift all the time. What matters is not where the line is at any given moment but what the particular configuration allows state power (including the consideration of force from #2 and the structural concerns from #1) to do.

The problem I have with this is that it doesn’t really account for state capacity very well, but that’s for another day because I haven’t figured it out via paper-writing yet.

#mrsamgrass #the state #sovereignty

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janiedean · 5 years

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I saw another blog here posted some tweets from a couple of Cersei Lannister/Lena Heady fans and they were wishing some really heinous things on the Ozark actress who won the Emmy, then blaming Gwendoline Christie for Lena Heady not winning — calling her selfish for submitting herself and undeserving. I wonder who they blamed last year when she didn't win the Emmy then either? Lena and Gwendoline seem to be supportive of each other, so I don't understand the nastiness from her fans.

.... well I just reported someone who said they hoped julia g/arner commits suicide tomorrow plus a lot of IT’S A WONDERFUL DAY FOR HER TO DIE and such amenities nvm that yesterday was the feast of calling gwen a man with transphobic/terf rhetoric attached to it nvm comparing her looks to sept. 11th as if joking about terrorist attacks to bodyshame ppl is funny *shrug* and yeah like lena and gwen are friends and tbh from what little I know of lena she’d be appalled that ppl are trash to her friends (she’s friends with peter too ffs do they think she’d be amused by that so-called support??). also fuck anyone who says gwen was underserving and selfish, she did the right thing and the vote was split by hbo anyway bc why submitting maisie and sophie then? you just send one if you don’t wanna risk the split vote.

anyway, those so-called fans only care about c. as a character and peripherally about That Ship just as far as c. is concerned and don’t give a single fuck about either lena or gwen or anything else and tbqh their efforts to sound like c. are just downright pathetic at this point and I said everything I had to. also I can’t fucking believe that 20+ year old people get this pressed over a fucking tv award ceremony where 50% of what happens is politics-dictated anyway, like please go find the maturity you lost along the way because this is just embarrassing.

#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #emmys wank #bleh #anti-cersei lannister #to avoid it ending up in the tag #this disgusts me tbh #the cast is friends with each other jfc #i can't #ableism cw #bodyshaming cw #murder cw #suicide cw #Anonymous #ask post

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lunasaturnine · 4 years

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Vienna and cultural trauma

WOW so cool to sign into tumblr and see 99+ notifications, and think “oh a post got some attention,” but it’s actually just general attention!

My astro blog is ready for some action! Or maybe ppl are just bored bc of the quarantine. Either way, it would be cool to write.

I want to write about VIENNA.

I just took a course about somatic healing of trauma and it gave me a good overview of how trauma recovery works. Chapter 1 of trauma recovery is gathering resources. Chapter 2 is dipping or oscillating back into the memory, whether it’s a clear memory or just something held hidden in your body, with your new resources, and allowing circles to complete. Chapter 3 is being bigger bigger brighter in the world !!! (It’s a nice course, it’s on somatopia.com, it costs $40 if you have that to throw around, it’s like 2 hours of videos of a nice man talking in a soothing voice in intelligent language about healing from trauma)

Now I’m thinking about cultural trauma and Vienna. I have long felt that helping to heal the Hitler wound of Vienna is one of my soul’s major dharmic thrusts. So I googled “healing cultural trauma” and most resources out there talk about the trauma of the victim culture. That kind of trauma is totally different, because it recommends amplifying the traditions and greatnesses of the culture, and when you’re a cultural perpetrator of violence, amplifying the greatness of your culture is a trigger because cultural superiority is what lead your culture to be violent. But there are still a lot of resources with a lot of valuable information. I’ve only skimmed a couple things so far and it seems like one thing people emphasize in cultural healing is human connectedness.

The internet is a little hard to navigate on this topic, but I found an NYT editorial called “I loved my grandmother but she was a Nazi.” The author’s sweet grandma was literally a Nazi but she was a nice person who didn’t hate Jews. When the author talked to her about it, she would deflect. “He said a lot of things, I didn’t listen to them all” and “I was caught up in my own life” etc. The author says, that’s bullshit, there’s something she’s avoiding, and I can’t understand what it is or why she’s doing it, and I’m hesitant to say this because it might seem like I’m trying to forgive Naziism but I’m really just trying to understand who I look at when I look at my grandmother. It’s the most direct address of the West’s Nazi wound that I’ve found in my two and a half minutes of searching on google and I think it’s on the nose.

In the readmore are my more concrete thoughts on potential resources for Western/German/Viennese healing, and thoughts about what working through phase 2 would look like for a perpetrator culture.

Resources

On this reddit post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/5nfqwp/my_grandmother_grew_up_in_nazi_germany/

there are some resources. First of all, 1. there are people from diverse backgrounds respective to WWII, coming together and talking as equals in the same kind of “room.” The descendants of the persecuted and the persecutors are together and they are not enemies. The knowledge, and SOMATIC FEELING EXPERIENCE, of that, can be a resource. I am typing over this brusquely and that’s Mercury magic for you and you should know that I just burst into sobs. That in just a couple of generations, the grandsons and daughters of enemies can be together and not hate each other and even love each other is an immense resource and can be leaned into at any point. There is a vast well of cultural relief available here. My tears are thankful, grateful tears, tears of relief. I am thinking of the parks in vienna that are holocaust memorial parks. I am thinking of that horrible statue out in front of the Albertina that is a memorial to cultural violence but at the same time, also represents the trapped soul of the Perpetrator culture, since we are all One. In the same way that a piece of music which opens with a terrifying chord represents both the terror experienced by the terrorized, and the menace of the terrorizer, AND THE FEELINGS IN THE terrorizer that caused them to generate this chord... off on a tangent, and I’m not sobbing anymore! That was crazy. I have a tendency to lock my feelings up, but being alone in this house and in this quarantine, I can open up locked wells of feeling like that.

That resource is IMMENSE, and it’s RIGHT in front of our faces all the time. I took a class on 20th century germany in undergrad, and the professor was a young guy with a Nazi grandfather, well I’m not sure if he was a Nazi but he was a German soldier, and he remarked on it. And I think at the time I thought “how lovely” but if you sit with that feeling, it’s deep as hell. And if you sit with it from the perspective of a penitent perpetrator, it’s REALLY FUCKING DEEP.

So that’s available. Im gonna post this real quick as a way of saving the draft but I have more ideas.

Okay. Continuing,

Resource 2 also from reddit post

The top respondent says his German POW uncle had a British GF. That’s similar to the first resource, but more immediate. I’m sure there are lots of stories like that. Intercultural experience that nullifies certain tensions

Resource 3 also from reddit post

The stories of people who did do the right thing... maybe. I dont know. I’ll get off this post soon but it’s interesting. Idk if this counts as a resource, it’s kind of a tangent, but the more I learn about karma and trans-life inheritance of it, the more it seems true that it really is better to die living in line with your beliefs than to live safely. Like the person in Pweuy’s post. That father died but his karma was pristine as far as this was concerned and perpetrator trauma did not cling to him.

ok jesus this is an interesting post... the girl skipping over the river of blood as it trickled out of the asylum... the hitler youth boy befriending a lamb and the nazis slaughtering it in front of him... the russian soldier who guarded the german girl because she reminded him of her daughter...

Okay. Before I go on, I want to clarify that I am not specifically talking about people who held Nazi beliefs in their core. There is a special type of perpetrator injury that is specific to that kind of thing, true villains and terrorists. I’m talking more about “ordinary Germans” who didn’t think very hard and got swept along, moderate supporters to moderate resisters. As a culture, they were moved by the tides into Naziism. They have culpability, but not the exact same kind of culpability as perpetrator people. The culture moved to perpetrate these crimes, and they were a part of that culture. That’s the specific kind of wound I’m interested in healing. There is a poster on that page whose grandma really loved Hitler...

Ok! I spent a lot of my energy in that page, now its 10PM and I still have veggies to prepare. I need energy for this next thing I was going to talk about.

Resource 4 - this one specific coffee shop

I’m putting *s in its name because I like this blog anonymous. P*****n is a coffee shop in Vienna that is the only happy place I went. There were places that were ok... and fine... maybe pleasant... but this place was American levels of happy. Waiters danced around and were actually relaxed and happy. P*****n’s theme is intergenerational communication. It hires grandmothers to work behind the counter, and make pies, and you’re supposed to buy a slice of their pie and talk to them a bit. And then the waiters are young, and they communicate with the Omas. And the Omas are maybe not old enough to have been Nazis but their parents were.

They also include a bit in all their menus about intergenerational dialogue and wondering what more they can do and how they can be more of a space for it.

I had MANY genuinely pleasant little experiences there... and I think that little space that some person with a vision made, is a blossoming flowerpot with lots of healing energy where true dialogue could happen. So that could be a resource too. The happiness of that place. In fact, these conversations could happen there.

But I wouldn’t want to break the space. The course I just took talked about titration, which is just accessing a TINY part of the traumatic memory, so you don’t get overwhelmed. This is a very icy fucked up conversation for a lot of people. My Viennese friend told me to talk more quietly about it than I was. Actually I did talk about it there with some people! The German girl was surprised that I thought Vienna had a wound. So was the Irish girl actually. For other people it’s really evident. My Viennese friend. D**n. Rf: “it’s ALL I feel when I am there.” ME. God that conversation was sooo gentle and sweet and light. The Irish girl was wondering if she should move to Vienna or stay in Barcelona, and the three of us talked about Vienna nd it was SOOOOO LOVELY, holy BALLS.

But even if we don’t hold conversations there exactly, that could be a really good place for conversation to start. I could reach out to the people who run the shop to ask them about it. And then maybe conversations could happen in other places (don’t want to spoil the sweetness of the shop).

Resource 5 - personal as I investigate maybe not really a resource - but yes maybe it is a resource: Grounded, comfortable people who are Viennese, and who understand the goals and also understand the sensitivities of Viennese people more than I do;

Resource 6 - people who are experts at cultural healing in victim cultures

Resource 7 - fostering dialogue between those two parties, also me.

Again I’m really playing fast and loose with the idea of resources. Maybe. We’re starting to move into phase 2, also, because with this dialogue, I want to open up some scripts for how to TITRATE sensitively.

phase 2

For instance, notice that I didn’t say something like “Remembering Vienna’s amazing heritage of incredible music that has the power to redeem and heal equal to and more accessibly than religions.” I think it’s true that Viennese music is a major healing resource (BEETHOVENSCHUBERTMOZARSKLTBSLJRTHBLEWSKJNS:OFDFD), but since it is bound up in Viennese identity, that notion is complex. Also, it’s not only that Viennese identity is nasty because it’s nazi and therefore that gives Schubert etc a dark tint, but also, the grand things that Vienna has contributed to western culture are now a part of Vienna’s current wound of degradation, cheapification, and humiliation by TOURISM. although I will say that I think Resource 8 should be MY OWN deep internalization of the healing power of Viennese music. Posting again to save...

...not only does that music help me be healed, but it also helps me understand healing process in the specific language of the culture i’m interested in

okay. Phase 2.

A picture of what I think sorta needs to happen

I think Omas that say “It was just a lot of talk, we ignored it” and “I was busy in my life”... I think what needs to happen for a perp culture is for them to actually own their part in the villainy, to claim it and stand in it and feel the pain, and say “I’m SORRY, this was HORRIBLE, I AM SORRY.” THIS WILL ALLOW THEM TO BECOME NEW!!!!!!!

That’s a v different healing process from like native american healing etc.

I really think somatic approach is a better road in than cognitive because, god, imagine cognizing all of this HORRIBLE SIN bit by bit knowing your culture perpetrated it and not having anyone to blame it on. Jesus.

How might the process of getting there look?

This is vague especially now that I don’t have that burst of energy. Conversations...

Here’s a question. After resource gathering.

“Knowing that bells rang for Hitler in Vienna, how does it feel to be Viennese?” IN YOUR BODY?

Damn THAT’S GOOD! THAT’S THE FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION. How does it feel to be Viennese? The goal is for it to feel OK.

Um, speaking specifically about Wiener trauma and their welcoming of Hitler, a few years ago, I read this in some guidebook, Vienna’s government acknowledged that they welcomed Hitler and that they were wrong, and investigating that is important for my mission. It’s cool because 1. it’s a Big Ol Step and 2. it lays groundwork for all of this.

Step 3��is really beautiful to think about. In the course I took, it’s where the instructor got out of his soothing calm neutral demeanor and started speaking passionately and bursting with smiles.

In addition to being able to be more firmly grounded in their own individual and cultural identities...

Okay, so, I’m drawn to this because I’m drawn to it, punkt. That’s all. But also, and I think I’m really late on the uptake here, I think I was due in Vienna many years ago, I think that whatever work I do in Vienna is helpful for the echoes of Naziism in today’s world, such as Trumpism (which does not...exactly... have the same kinds of premises but uses a lot of the same kinds of mecahnisms) and actual brazen nationalism, white supremicism, and far right movements. Hitler is a LOUD and REVERBERANT figure in our history for this kind of energy, and if we can do healing surrounding him, re-discovering resilience in the moderates, helping them go through the emotional journey they need to go through, they will be a beautiful resonant horn call from the past, a solid core of NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that will strengthen the culture of the entire FUCKING world.

Music will be a part of it.

I have always loved Vienna, and I can’t really analyze it. I love it like a girlfriend. I know she’s problematic. And she can be really really horrible.

The wound is deep. The horribleness, the life negating quality not only of the FUCKING WRETCHED SHOP CLERKS, but also of the WAY -- THINGS -- HAPPEN, of the overall weird ass SPIRIT in Vienna, is... God DAMN WHY do I like that city so much? It’s bizarre. It’s very pervasive. I don’t enjoy experiencing it, I don’t think it’s attractive, I don’t like it. I love Vienna THROUGH that wound. I REALLY LOVE Vienna. That’s one of the clearest things that I know in my heart. I love Vienna... and that’s the whole story. It’s one of the easiest things for me to say.

Lots of people love a city. We do it for reasons. I think our hearts are drawn where they are drawn because we are attracted to healing the specific karmas of places. The karma of my hometown is mainly racial, with native american underneath. The coffee shop that is equivalent to P*****n serves often as a place of racial conversation and healing. It is actually pretty amazing. And once there was a white supremacist with a gun there and he stood up on a table and let people see his gun. He didn’t yell or anything. But that vital thing happened there in that coffee shop.

Excuse me I also love coffee shops and Vienna is the land of coffee shops.

Okay. I love Vienna! I literally love Vienna, with my heart. I love Vienna.

One last thing. I’m saving then editing...

The postscript: A major resource, and it kinda sidesteps some things, is language. It will be much better if German is spoken in these conversations. When I went to Vienna last, I didn’t prepare my German because when I went to Vienna first, everyone spoke English and it was simply easier to speak English all the time, so I figured I wouldn’t try to give the illusion and disappoint. But lo... the native people really, really resent it if you don’t even try to speak German. They actually seem to experience it as an injury. It is wild, if you’re not expecting it.

ALL OVER VIENNA I saw the Graffiti stamp/brand, “Tourism is terrorism.”

When I was in the airport and the cute customs dudes asked me the purpose of my visit, I said “TOURISM” and they laughed. That was fun. But it was a lie. I was a pilgrim. I... know I was a tourist, technically. But I felt such hatred for the tourists standing like apes in front of the Schubert statue in the Stadtpark. Their wretched selfie smiles plastered on top of the emptiness of their experience. My purpose in Vienna had nothing in common with theirs. And I claim that I didn’t do a lot of the tourist things - not many museums or concerts or whatever.

One of my more pleasant memories was going into a used book shop and asking about a book in the window, a German-language edition of the tao te ching from 1923 (a very strange time). I asked in English. The clerk was confused and asked if I spoke German, and I answered in German that I spoke some German, but was learning, and knew the TTC very well, and that it’s simply usually easier to speak in English. I might have used imperfect German, but I felt dignified and natural doing it.

Ok, not only the German language, but the quiet Viennese demeanor of Scorpiness. Scorpscorpscorpscorp. Quiet, observant, emotional, and responsive to gentle tenderness and consideration, and traumatized by brashness.

Both the spoken language, and the language of the demeanor, I think are somatic approaches that sidestep cognitive...things and make the culture feel unconsciously accepted and open.

On my first trip I learned howwwwww AMERICAN I was, and then on my second trip I opened myself up to my inner Wiener and was quiet and scorpy, and I felt warmth emerge from the people and city in response. It felt really right, and it felt like i was honoring...her, and it felt um sort of romantic. ha

#Vienna #Wien

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tellywoodtrash · 5 years

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ebss 09.07.19 lb

is this jai's girlfriend? she seems as idiotic and immature as him.

kabhi naa chodne ke kasme vaade = she's gonna dump his broke ass in about 5 episodes.

sonali's here! she's literally the only character i like on this show right now so seeing her really brightens up my day.

are jai/sonali supposed to be twins? i kinda get the vibe that they are the same age.

anyway, sonali, bless her heart, gave all her money to jai. which was a grand total of 150 rs.

jai manhoos is like “itne ka main kya karoonga?????”

NIKAL L****, PEHLI FURSAT MEIN NIKAL.

god sonali take your money back from this fool.

rani still on maun vrat with di, and tbh, this is the smartest thing she's done on this show ever. reasons are stupid, but pooja really isn't worth wasting time with rn.

amma continues to be the only sensible person on this damn show, by telling pooja not to waste time messing with kabir. and in response pooja's like NO BUT HE'S THE ONEEEEEEEE WHO... ffs wtf are you 6?????/ he offered to get you justice AFTER you tried to set his father on fire, and tried to make peace once more even after that. you're the one who started this petty nonsense with him.

OK THIS BISH CRAZY. before she at least used to listen to amma's voice of reason, now she's just straight up doing the opposite. she's become absolutely not worthy of rooting for, unless in situations of misogyny.

what kinda next level of extra???????? this is beyond oberoi levels of extra also.

there's everyone's shocked faces, and then there's kabir's eyeroll reaction, lmao.

kabir toh has been getting out his rage by doing some phadda everyday, aaj dhruv ko finally outlet mila hai.

but in vain. kabir just hauled him away like:

valiant chachi trying to attack but lmaoooooooo, pooja's like "pls stop yelling; heart attack TYPES (complete with shoulder shimmy action) aa gaya toh ab doctor bhaaga bhaaga nahi aayega."

and also adds that chachi is very irritating and she doesn't know how she tolerated her for all this while. saalon ki bhadaas nikaal rahi hai, lol.

lol pls note how kabir is mad, but not disagreeing or stopping her from saying any of it.

lo bhai ab sabke saamne hogi inki tashanbaazi.

sikke dene ke bahaane haath is taraah kyun chua be????

"aapke chashm-o-chiraag, aapke secret agent, mr. kabir mittal ko maine apne yahaan naukri dene ka mann bana liya."

dhruv is like i did not know that was an option, or i too would have applied.

ohoho kyaaaaaa hi swag. just fuck and get it over with man.

lol mummy legit said "tum jaati ho ya main sach much ke pagalpann pe utar aaoon??"

kabir's like mom pls stop cockblocking can't you see we're doing foreplay here???? in any case, yes babe, i'm down to get dirty with you. in more ways than one.

i was on his side for this battle until he said "hum tehre paidaaishi rayeez" and now instantly i want to kill him too.

pooja sharma really living up to her namesake and giving appropriate response.

ugh. both of you suck. (BUT ALSO THEY ALWAYS LOOK SO TURNED ON AFTER TUSSLING WITH EACH OTHER???? Y’ALL NEED TO STOP WITH THIS SHIT.)

sab kabir ke oopar toot pad rahein hai. let the guy eat, unlike the rest of you, he's the only one who's done some shit today.

dhruv is probably like ‘i don't like how those two had more sexual tension in front of all of us in these 3 min than i had with her in our bedroom for over a year.’

elevator music playing in kabir's head as everyone yells around him.

HEY! NOT THE MITHAIS! THERE'S LIKE ONE BOX PER PERSON, WHAT THE FUCK, THAT COULD HAVE BEEN DESSERT FOR THE NEXT TWO WEEKS.

oh boy, this is turning awkward. esp. with the reminder that pooja was his biwi. kabir pls keep that in mind and stay tf away from your pseudo-bhaabi.

apparently this is ~THE ONLY JOB HE COULD GET WITHOUT HIS CERTIFICATES~~~~~ areeeeeeeee you fucking kidding me???? 1. you already HAVE a job. which for some godforsaken reason you're determined not to do. 2. pls. you have like 5, 6 years of work experience. that counts more on the resume than any certificates. fuck outta here with this bs. just tell the truth: you wanna play these games with her, coz life mein aur kuch nahi bacha karne ko.

very pointed taunt on how will i handle your new sharaab waale kharche if i don't work, bitch, since you seem to show noooooooooo inclination to go to work yourself.

dhruv at least has the decency to look embarrassed.

lmao after saying all that, kabir is like "main tumhe taunt nahi kar raha hoon." lol, sure.

he's asking everyone if they have any other brilliant 1.6 lpm jobs lined up for him that he can waltz into.

dadaji is like "tu theek nahi kar raha hai." this asshole only has objections, never solutions. chal na buddhe.

bir, out!!!!!!!!!!!!!

daily sar pe haath rakhne ka quota has been filled.

i'm telling you bro, still not too late; go get your wife and kid and disappear into the hills somewhere.

mummy is like ........ why bro. honestly why?

ispe na jaane kaunsa bhoot sawaar hai badla lene ka. shaayad apne haraami baap ka.

also he fully admitted that job toh kahin bhi mil sakti thi, but he chose to work in her company. glad that’s cleared up in canon itself.

idhar amma is like y u lyk dis, you horrible child?????

um excuse me, tumhaari haraami family NE HI sab kuch bigaada hai uska. do you not know the whole story, or are you just closing your eyes to it??????

and this mummy, why isn’t she fessing up to what she really did???? sab ke sab haraami log.

kabir: main uske aas paas rehna chahta hoon. amma: maine kaha tha kabir ko khud se door rakh. pooja: main khud chahti hoon ke kabir mere aas paas rahe. amma: tu bohut bada khatra mol le rahi hai.

this is one fuckall petty hate story that's being made to sound like a mighty star-crossed love story. thanks, no thanks.

lord, just give up, moms. your kids are being fueled by the power of petty and not going to listen to you ppl and your logic and reason.

idgaf about these two's passionate promises to make each other's lives miserable. you know whose life you're making miserable with this bullshit? mineeeee, you fuckers.

haaaaaaaaye raja beta looks so good in white shirt. this right here is my kryptoniteeeeee. fuck my nonsense heterosexuality.

cute exasperation but mummy pays no heed. and has a mauli for him too.

"aapko border pe hona chahiye tha. yeh aarti karke dhaage baandhogi toh kisi ko kuch hoga nahi."

fuck outta here you cute fuck i don't want to like you.

mom's like as far as i’m concerned, you're going to the border only. meaning pooja sharma is considered more dangerous than full fledged armies/terrorists. lol good. fear her.

"arre waah ghar ki doodharu gai ki aarti ho rahi hai."

lmao man i am really liking sassy dhruv. he has so much more personality now.

passive aggressive back and forth, but honestly, i am enjoying. what even is happening to this show when i like dhruv's sada hua personality more than pooja/kabir? absolute pandemonium, that's what.

"is sab ka hisaab degi pooja sharma." hey man, fuck outta here. your brother was a loser even before she did all this. don't put this on her.

amma is cutely fussing over pooja eating breakfast.

hein? who has raj bhog for breakfast? and chocolate cake too?

a bitch with zero fucks to give, like rani, apparently. salaam to her fearless appetite.

the only time i like pooja now is when she shows her vulnerable/loving human side, that the old her used to exhibit only to amma/rani/shail/aarush.

btw, i like this outfit/makeup muchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh better, but ouff that ghatiya mismatch of a neck piece. why?????

———————————————————————

precap: same shit, different day. how long are we going to have to put up with this??????

#ek bhram sarvagun sampanna #ebss lbs #episode liveblogs

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bougainvillieas · 7 years

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Yesterday I decided to listen to this podcast called guys we've fucked. It seemed cool at first, they called themselves feminists and I wanted to see what they were about. It's hosted by two wh*te women. As the podcast began, one of them was talking about this doc on Netflix where this Black musician(he's African American) goes and befriends members of the K*K and gradually gets some of them to leave that ideology. Apparently they interviewed ppl working with Black Lives matter in the doc. I really can't say if the doc was made in a way to compare and contrast BLM's ideology, strategy, and membership with that of the K*K, which is not only ridiculous but violent. However, this idiot on the podcast went on about how she can see how some members of both groups are similar and ppl just want to be heard. How she didn't know that n*zi ideology was different from the K*K. which is incredibly stupid and offensive to compare BLM with those people, furthermore to say that ppl don't really listen to the fears of wh*te men (ha wh*te men cause it's only wh*te men who are part of such groups or violently racist, wh*te women just sit at home sewing and talking about how they're are so much nicer to the coloureds). She went on that those wh*te men have a fear that Black ppl are eroding their culture. The fact that she can not see how extremely white supremacist that statement was is baffling. If anything or anyone is a threat to wh*te ppl and their "culture" it's wh*teness itself. As far as the americas is concerned wh*teness is what has destroyed and will continue to destroy your "culture" and humanity. She went on and was like unlike the n*zis that want Black and Jewish ppl dead, the K*K just wants a separate state. How to you think that separate state would be achieved? The K*K is a vigilante terrorist group operating on the ideology of white settler supremacy. The K*K grew out of the American reconstruction era, the period after slavery in which the government began making efforts to "support" African American communities; passing of laws ensuring the full citizenship of African Americans, ensuring the right to vote for Black men, building schools, social support institutions etc. the K*K was formed basically to terrorize Black people +those deemed as the other. Like the K*K isn't just a group of confused, lonely, unheard men. It's a terrorist group that has killed people whose purpose is to terrorize and kill people. Honestly I cannot believe these ppl call themselves feminist, yet they are here talking about "both sides." What "both sides" there is no "both sides" even with the ideology of Black separatism which she tried to compare with the K*K's, there is obviously one side that has the monopoly if violence, one side that lacks humanity, one side that keeps inventing, reinventing to diminish the humanity of others and to keep being invested in wh*teness and terrorism. Wh*te women are callous and evil and this is why wh*te ppl should know their history instead of walking around like headless cows.

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scundered · 7 years

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ik it's not ur job to educate ppl so feel free to delete this but if u don't mind could u give me a heads up on the DUP bc all the info I've seen about them is those "uwu" posts u mentioned and tbh I am worried

i’m gonna start off by saying that my main issue w all of these english people suddenly caring abt the dup is that they’ve ignored northern ireland in all of their protests against a coalitionlike fair enough you don’t want this horrible homophobic fanatical sectarian/religious group having anything to do with government but……..they are one of our only two parties who matter at the moment (what with the leader of the dup arlene foster being our first minister and all) and we don’t even get to vote for the prime minister…so do i appreciate northern ireland not being mentioned at all? not really.even worse when they try and lecture people actually from northern ireland on ni politics like? the next time your politicians can’t keep a government going because of a fucking language act hmu and maybe i’ll listen

lmao this got….long and not even that detailed idk what i’ve done but just know the dup are horrible and don’t care about anyone unless they’re a specific brand of christian unionist lmao

i personally dislike the dup greatly because of the fact they are a right-wing extremely religious party, who tend to put the union above everything else and maintain their beliefs at the expense of the rights of other groups in northern ireland and the peace sharing process (which is in ruins because of them)

one of the main issues i have with the dup is that they are the reason that same-sex marriage in northern ireland isn’t legal…despite it being legal in the rest of the uk not to mention the republic of ireland…they have maintained that same-sex marriage is damaging for society because it redefines traditional beliefs and all that bullshit & have used a clause called the ‘Petition of Concern’ to block every single recent bill for gay marriage in northern ireland (let’s keep in mind that this petition was designed during the Good Friday agreement and is to be used for peacekeeping and to ensure that one community does not discriminate against another…not for blocking issues such as same-sex marriage but whatever i guess). Arlene Foster, the leader of the DUP has said, “I could not care less what people get up to in terms of their sexuality, that’s not a matter for me – when it becomes a matter for me is when people try to redefine marriage.” Also let’s not forget that the dup are basically the reason why it took until this september for there to be no total ban on gay men giving blood in northern ireland…5 years after the rest of the uk…(this is one of the main points i have seen completely ignored by labour supporters/anti-conservatives to be honest and one of the ones i’m the most angry about lmao)

also lmao i’m not gonna go into it but google Asher’s Bakery Case and keep in mind that after this the dup attempted to implement a bill which would allow businesses to go against equality laws if it went against their beliefs (but let’s be real we all know they only meant Christian beliefs)

they are extremely anti-abortion. northern ireland…again unlike the rest of the uk..never implemented the ‘67 abortion act meaning that women can see them receive lifetime imprisonment even in cases of sexual assault etc. if they act outside of the extremely limited laws on abortion. women in northern ireland either have to spend a ridiculous amount of money to travel to england etc. for abortion services or risk purchasing abortion alternatives online. dup mps have stated that the party is, “unashamedly pro-life”.there has been a recent case in northern ireland were a woman was given a suspended sentence for using these abortion pills in northern ireland…despite the fact that the only reason she needed the pills in the first place was the extremely limited access to abortion services in northern ireland.

i’m also just gonna say that they are basically responsible for the political mess northern ireland is in right now because of the renewable heat scandal which saw a complete collapse of the northern ireland assembly and the calling of an election to select a new assembly which…hasn’t really gone anywhere and really at this point it doesn’t look good for power sharing in northern ireland…which doesn’t look good for the peace process but hey as long as the Unionists are happy and those pesky irish speakers don’t get their language act it’s all okay i guess…

they also, much like sinn fein (the other most important party in northern ireland who refuse to take their seats in westminster…but let’s not get into that), have strong connections to paramilitaries in northern ireland which…isn’t shocking tbh but it is another negative point against them as they consistently bring up sinn fein’s connections with the ira but conveniently forget their own terrorist connections (which obviously don’t count because their acts of terrorism weren’t against british people) but go off i guess.

ik there’s a lot more but honestly thinking about them makes me tired but just kow they they’re horrible and that they actually have an affect in northern ireland

#Anonymous #ask #this got long #and a bit rambly #and not very informative i'm sorry #i'm just bitter #so so bitter

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nicemango-feed · 7 years

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Empowering Islamists under Trumpism

Apart from the glaring, 'handing ISIS a great recruiting tool' effect, there are many other ways in which Islamists are being empowered in this climate. So many people exist on the edge of extremism, and Trump will tip them over & convince them, that yes they are at war with the West.

Trump's "Muslim ban" will be counterproductive to keeping America safe and assist with terrorist recruitment https://t.co/thgTsW5pHh

— David Pakman (@dpakman) February 1, 2017

This chaotic, potentially dangerous, and inhumane ‘muslim ban’ (which The White House is now saying isn’t a ban, after calling it a ban themselves on multiple occasions)...has many consequences…some of them obviously horrific…separating families, handcuffing children & generally creating chaos around the world - But other effects are less obvious, less noticeable...and can slip under our radars.

It's important to keep an eye out for those.

Donald Trump's White House says 5-year-old boy was 'handcuffed' because he was a 'security threat' https://t.co/bbVEFQ5GvK

— The Independent (@Independent) January 31, 2017

.@jaketapper with a remarkable 2-minute fact-check on @PressSec http://pic.twitter.com/GGjQ21GMUb

— Nolan D. McCaskill (@NolanDMcCaskill) January 31, 2017

Islam is Being Held in Higher Regard Each Day

Amidst all the false accusations of ‘Islamophobia' even when people of muslim background would raise their voices to mildly critique something like misogyny or homophobia in their own communities….there were some people spouting legitimate anti muslim bigotry, right alongside them…

Unfortunately, that has boiled over.

The resistance to allow open discussion of Islam, caused a massive failure to address grievances with Islamic extremism.

This left the floor open for the right to swoop in and fear monger, campaign from an angle of xenophobia…it couldn’t be more obvious than in a time like this. Where muslims are being singled out by the fucking president of the United States...and banned.

This is a time where innocent muslims were shot while peacefully practising their faith, by a far-right, deranged Trump and Marine Le Pen supporter. People’s hijabs are being ripped off in the street, we hear of such stories more and more. The emboldened bigotry vibe seems infectious - people who were always slightly sympathetic, are more and more comfortable sharing their feelings now.

What do right wing nationalists want exactly? What does Trump want? If he really hates muslims, he's achieving the opposite of making them a widely detested group.

Artwork by Shepard Fairey

This Sunday, mosques around the UK will open their doors to their neighbours. Find out how to get involved here > https://t.co/GtG0WS44jI http://pic.twitter.com/QTlRubE7tW

— Ben & Jerry's UK (@benandjerrysUK) February 2, 2017

In fact, he’s doing an excellent job of victimizing them to such a degree that Islam/Muslims are being held in higher and higher regard each day. Its becoming 'the anti Trump', the symbol of defiance…to a problematic degree actually. The pendulum always swings too far. It swung too far right in opposition of the left's defensiveness around Islam, and now it is swinging further in favour of islam. There are reactionaries on either side - and their pendulums are a' swingin'. The reasoned voices will become increasingly invisible.

I try not to be hyperbolic, but on my worst days I fear we’re headed to a place where the polarization won’t stop till it gets to 'Nazis vs. Jihadists'

But that apocalyptic scenario is a whole other blogpost in itself.

Muddying The Water

Now, I’m a long time critic of hijab and Islamic modesty garb - but I come at it as a person who cares about equality, feminism, minority rights…compassion, and someone who truly wants the best for the Muslim community. I just feel the best would be a move towards secularism, a dismantling of orthodoxy and a shedding of its most patriarchal misogynistic symbols...and honest open conversation.

From a previous post - artwork by yours truly

There are also others who jump on this hijab-critical bandwagon, and because of them, we can almost never have a baggage-free and clear discussion about what an awful practice it really is. Those people are the xenophobes - who hate it because it’s different, its 'of the other'. They are not concerned with women’s rights…especially not with the rights of Muslims, be they men or women. They make that plain as day, repeatedly by participating in far-right, nativist movements, immigrant demonization, support for Trumpian bans…but they don’t hesitate to use “muslim women” as a point scoring technique in their displays of faux-minism.

From a Pegida Rally in Birmingham in 2016 Image from here

Astounding hypocrisy from an anti immigrant far-righter who doesn't care a bit about Saudi women.. only uses them. http://pic.twitter.com/rASvGmW8Mx

— Eiynah -- (@NiceMangos) February 1, 2017

Anne Marie Waters, co heads Pegida UK with 'white genocide' lunatic, Paul Weston and ex leader of the far right group EDL, Tommy Robinson.

< ppl who legitimately hate immigrants using hijab-criticism to further hatred is what makes ppl want to glorify hijabs.

— Eiynah -- (@NiceMangos) February 1, 2017

You may have seen these faux-minists come out in response to the hugely successful women’s march protest. Their caring about muslim women is limited to furthering their own agenda, and pointing the finger away from any feminist efforts in the west.

These obscurantists continuously fall prey to the fallacy of relative privation, or “not as bad as” fallacy…. a silencing tactic commonly used by people on the right to minimize fights for equality in the West. Be they women’s rights, trans rights, whatever..

"Oh feminists in the West think its ok to parade around in silly pussy hats and protest? They have it so good here… what about women in the Middle East? They are being caned for immodesty, stoned for adultery. *Those* are the women you should be fighting for."

All this is, is basically trying to shame those who want to better their situation here.

I cannot stress this enough: Just because things are worse in Saudi Arabia, doesn’t mean we in the West cannot also fight for betterment on our scale.

This is called progress.

There will always be something worse to point to.

The islamic right also uses this tactic..

"Oh you think Islam is bad? Islam fought for women's rights...You should have seen what they were doing before Islam, burying girl babies. Be thankful you don’t have it as bad, and appreciate how far we’ve come."

In Pakistan I always heard, "Why are you complaining about Pakistan… at least we don’t have morality police and enforced burqas like Saudi Arabia."

One I often hear from fellow atheists is:

"Oh you pathetic bleeding heart liberals, fighting for trans rights? Here you are arguing about what pronouns to use while ISIS is throwing gay people off buildings. "

From Trump Supporters:

"Oh you think Pence is bad? They *kill* gays in Saudi Arabia! "

"Oh you think Trump’s Muslim ban is bad? What about Saudi Arabia not letting any non Muslims into Mecca? What about THAT ban?"

Hey #Saudi! When will you lift your BAN on non-Muslims even entering ONE step in Mecca? Exit ramp: for non-Muslims. #NoBanNoWall http://pic.twitter.com/0svuAQIsLg

— Asra Q. Nomani (@AsraNomani) January 27, 2017

Hey Iran! How about lifting your BAN against the entry of women like @NaziPaiki @Fide_chess who don't cover their hair? #NoBanNoWall

— Asra Q. Nomani (@AsraNomani) January 27, 2017

"Oh hindu nationalist extremists are bad? They only rarely kill ppl for eating beef, at least they aren’t suicide bombers."

and my personal favourite: “Oh you think Trump is bad, at least he’s better than Mohammed"

Yes, congrats he’s better than a 7th century desert warlord who married a child. His values as president of the US in 2017 are better than those in 7th century arabia…what a high bar you have!

Not to mention, Isis is pretty much a gift to extremists and apologists of far-right movements everywhere. It’s the worst thing of our times, something they can always, always point to that they are better than…

This is what people do when they don’t want to address the thing in question.

The left has it’s versions of 'not as bad as' too, the same way it has it’s versions of faux-minists, like those who champion the hijab carelessly as a feminist symbol, or those who think Sharia apologist Sarsour was a good pick to lead the Women's march.

And I’m sure we’ve all fallen prey to this fallacy at some point or another - but the levels of this I’m seeing on the right nowadays are astronomical, its a running theme not an occasional slip. Panicked flailing attempts at diverting attention from the total mess that Trump's created.

There’s even a whole new type of 'stealth right' movement that insists its on the left….they insist they are not fans of Trump or Milo… but they spend unimaginable amounts of time defending these people they supposedly dislike, they spend a disproportionate amount of time criticizing those who oppose these people…(but i swear, they don’t like them or anything).

"I don't like Trump, (I just ALWAYS oppose those who oppose him)" - I see you. 👁️👁️

— Eiynah -- (@NiceMangos) February 1, 2017

@alexmassie It's a whole new punditry genre. "People who are embarrassed to admit they like Trump so instead attack people who don't."

— Hugo Rifkind (@hugorifkind) January 31, 2017

(As for Milo protests and Nazi punches: for the record I’m against violence, and find it to be an ineffective tactic, one that sets a worrying precedent for people who others may perceive as ‘dangerous’. If we leave it up to the public to decide who’s dangerous, some will get it terribly wrong. And ‘dangerous' is subjective too..to a hardcore theist, there’s nothing more dangerous than a charming, well spoken atheist who dismantles the terrible ideas so revered in holy books. This is a slippery slope that could effect ex-muslims, atheists, satanists…muslims even. This also fuels Milo’s fire, gives him more publicity, more support. I think that creative campaigns to peacefully and wittily protest his appearances would be more effective.

So yes I feel all that, but I am also not compelled do defend him or Richard Spencer for days on end on social media, nor would I be compelled to defend or shed any tears over Anjem Choudary, if he got punched).

Ripe climate for Islamists to frame Criticism as Victimization

Non muddied water and clear distinctions/discussions are important now..more than ever. If you retweet, promote or associate with far-right critics of Islam, you are damaging this discussion, and making it harder.

This climate of genuine muslim victimization is a time when extremists sneak in their rhetoric and leverage the situation for their benefit. Since the Muslim ban I have seen Islamists tweeting furiously against anyone critical of hijabs or any security or safety bans on modesty garb, like in the airport. This is being framed as further ‘victimization' of an already victimized group.

Yes...Trump is victimizing muslims, we must strongly condemn and oppose it.

But Islamism is an ongoing problem, allowing face coverings in places others are not allowed to cover should not be framed as part of this victimization.

Hijabs on children should not be crept into the mainstream discussion as 'acceptable', just because, Trump is victimizing Muslims.

Two things at once, Trump is an anti muslim bigot, hijabs on kids are also wrong.

Trump is an anti muslim bigot, but that doesn’t mean that everything to do with Islam is automatically amazing and should be free from criticism.

Two things at once.

Christian homophobia sucks, so does Muslim homophobia - and we still have a long way to go with rights for LGBT Muslims. Don’t let Islamists frame legitimate criticism in this time, as unfair scrutiny.

There are more events now, being organized for people to wear the hijab 'in solidarity'… the hijab is a garment mostly used to oppress women in the Muslim world.

There are kids events, card-making marathons “to islam” "with love” ...cringe....cringe...cringe

I am 10000% for solidarity with muslims, but this is turning into fetishization of a religion. And one that commands more orthodoxy than other major present day ones.

Imagine this happening over Christianity…it’s just as cringeworthy to liberals of Muslim background who are struggling and fighting for change.

No one has the right to take your modesty from you. Supporting sisters who are being forced to give up their right to cover #IStand4Hijab http://pic.twitter.com/XpUwaZGtVo

— Mufti Ismail Menk (@muftimenk) January 17, 2017

Of course you stand for hijab, your goal *is* to keep women covered and less visible in the public sphere, ffs.

You know how people in the west laugh at this christian persecution complex, mostly because there is no persecution whatsoever…*but* imagine if in an environment where Christians were legitimately being mistreated, people like Ken Ham swept in to push creationism in schools … free from scrutiny. And if you pushed back, you were automatically 'piling on'. Or if Westboro baptist wanted to push their nasty hateful agendas under the cover of Christian persecution.

Be wary, is all I’m saying. Stand with muslims, yes...but don’t let anyone tell you Islam is above criticism. More important now, for us to take this discussion in a liberal direction, rather than let the far right own it. Maybe we can start chipping away at their hate, with better alternatives.

There are more countries and communities that force niqab, but gay bashing cleric mufti menk decides to ignore that. #WorldHijabDay2017 http://pic.twitter.com/HQV3aXjGeQ

— zeeshan (@zeeshxlifex) February 1, 2017

I’m all for women having the right to choose their modesty coverings if they truly have a choice and they want to perpetuate this practice, but the disproportionate focus on women’s right TO wear something that majority of women wearing it in the world get forced into, is in incredibly bad taste…its preventing liberals from muslim backgrounds from gaining the same equality for women that has been won in the west.

Today we celebrate a woman's right to wear the hijab! #WorldHijabDay #RightToCover #IStand4Hijab #Hijabi #WomensRights #No2H8 http://pic.twitter.com/SvqlMUE8xl

— Faith Matters (@FaithMattersUK) February 1, 2017

How cute! #worldhijabday #istand4hijab http://pic.twitter.com/W1NAby9x9D

— World HijabDay (@WorldHijabDay) January 20, 2017

Dressing children up in hijab is essentially sexualizing children. Something liberals in the muslim world have fought consistently against. It’s a garment meant to ‘protect women from the lust of men’ what sort of message are we glorifying here…

Privileged to have been appointed Ambassador for Gibraltar for World Hijab Day. Watch this space 😉 #WorldHijabDay #IStand4Hijab http://pic.twitter.com/MewQsZsbLV

— Nadia Esserti (@NadzE00) January 19, 2017

imagine how this message sounds to someone who has had run ins with morality police, who have enforced this type of modesty…here we are, in the West... promoting campaigns that are telling people to ‘cover up for a day’, akin to 'try this chastity belt for a day.'

----

Don't let 'anti-Trump' become synonymous with 'Islam is awesome', similarly... don't let Islam-critical perspectives be conflated with pro-Trump illiberal, intolerant ones. We must open another door, for liberal, compassionate critique of Islam as any other religion.

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junker-town · 7 years

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Every NBA figure who's spoken out about President Trump's travel ban

Four head coaches and many more players have said they’re against President Trump’s travel ban.

Players, coaches, and executives around the NBA have spoken out against President Donald Trump’s ban on refugees and citizens from seven Muslim-majority countries since the executive order was passed on Saturday.

Specifically, four NBA head coaches have sharply criticized the ban, including Warriors head coach Steve Kerr. Notably, Kerr’s father was killed in an act of terror when Kerr was a freshman in college.

No NBA player or executive has explicitly come out in support of the ban, to SB Nation’s knowledge. One player asked, Timberwolves forward Gorgui Dieng, who is Muslim, gave a neutral answer about the ban but also said, “I think I’ve got a right to be here.” Senegal, where Dieng was born, was not one of the seven countries listed in the executive order.

Here is a complete list of NBA figures who have shared their opinions on the ban. Their complete thoughts are not included in every instance, but click on their names to see everything they said in full.

Warriors head coach Steve Kerr

“I would just say that as someone whose family member was a victim of terrorism, having lost my father, if we’re trying to combat terrorism by banishing people from coming to this country, (it’s) really going against what the principles of what our country’s about and creating fear. It’s the wrong way to go about it. If anything, we could be breeding anger and terror and so I’m completely against what’s happening.”

Pistons head coach Stan Van Gundy

“We're getting into the days of now we're judging people by their religion, trying to keep Muslims out. … None of those seven nations have been responsible for an American death, but we're barring everybody. It's just playing to people's fears and prejudices and everything else, and we're getting back to the days of putting the Japanese in relocation camps and Hitler registering the Jews. That's where we're headed, and it's just fear-mongering and playing to a certain base of people that have some built-in prejudices that aren't fair.”

Raptors head coach Dwane Casey

“I'm old. It's scary because it kind of reminds you about what happened back in the 60s, when I was growing up. Even though it's different issues, it resembles that in a lot of different ways. A little bit more sophisticated, but it's similar. And it's a slippery slope. For every action, there's a cause and effect and a reaction by other people, so we have to be careful. Again, I'm a U.S. citizen, a proud U.S. citizen, but we have to be careful how we're handling our business in the States.”

Raptors guard Kyle Lowry

Kyle Lowry's comments on President Trump's #MuslimBan http://pic.twitter.com/DOIPpOE0AP

— Mark Sheldon (@markdsheldon) January 30, 2017

“Um, I think it’s bullshit. I think it’s absolute bullshit. Our country is the home of the land of the free, and for that to happen, I think it’s bullshit. I mean, I’m not going to get into it too deeply but personally, I think it’s bullshit.”

Raptors president Masai Ujiri

“I just don't get it. This is mind-boggling. I'm a prime example of what opportunity is in this world, basically. Canada has given me opportunity. America gave me opportunity. America has given my kids opportunity. That's what this world is about. For me to see -- I see how many foreign kids we have on our basketball team. Luol Deng ate in my house when he came to playoffs here. He's from Sudan. What does all this mean? It's ridiculous in my opinion.”

Spurs head coach Gregg Popovich

“As you already know, I have lots of thoughts about what we’ve done to ourselves as a country and what we’ve allowed to happen. But we’ll see where this goes. Obviously the rollout today was Keystone Kops-like by any measure with objectivity. Whether you want to say it’s good or bad is irrelevant. But it was Keystone Kops, and that’s scary.”

Nets forward Rondae Hollis-Jefferson

People can say what they want, but being denied ACCESS to see your grandchild graduate or to go back to your country is inhumane. #MuslimBan

— R.HollisJefferson (@RondaeHJ24) January 29, 2017

Bucks vice president Alex Lasry

“I appreciate all the fans concerns and prayers for Thon (Maker). And, today a Sudanese refugee who fled oppression and is an incredible young man will make his second NBA start. I’m incredibly excited and proud of him. He’s a symbol of what makes America great and all immigrants believe about America. But what’s going on in the US right now isn’t about Thon. It’s about all the other incredible immigrants and refugees who will make US a better place that can’t come into our country. This is not who we are as a country and doesn’t live up to our ideals.”

Former NBA player Nazr Mohammed

It's a tough day when u find out that so many ppl that u thought were fans or friends really hate u and everything u believe in.

— Nazr Mohammed (@NazrMohammed) January 28, 2017

Thunder center Enes Kanter

I am still in disbelief about the #MuslimBan 'NO' human should be discriminated for their Race, Religion or Ethnicity.#WeAreAmerica

— Enes Kanter (@Enes_Kanter) January 29, 2017

Former NBA player Steve Nash

Freedom and liberty packing up their things...

— Steve Nash (@SteveNash) January 28, 2017

Seattle Storm forward Breanna Stewart

My first protest was really inspiring - to be alongside such a diverse group of people who care about other humans! #NoMuslimBan #LAX http://pic.twitter.com/mrLyHwy7De

— Breanna Stewart (@bre_stewart30) January 30, 2017

Nets guard Jeremy Lin

As an American, sorry to everyone affected by the #MuslimBan ... this is foreal gettin out of control #teamACLU

— Jeremy Lin (@JLin7) January 29, 2017

Nuggets forward Kenneth Faried

Astaghfirullah! They know not what they do!

A photo posted by Kenneth Faried (@kennethfaried35) on Jan 28, 2017 at 9:55pm PST

Faried’s caption reads: “Astaghfirullah! They know not what they do!”

Astaghfirullah is an Arabic interjection used to expressed shame or disapproval. Literally, it is a short prayer asking forgiveness.

After the Nuggets’ Jan. 31 120-116 loss to the Los Angeles Lakers, Faried sounded off about the travel ban.

“I think it’s crazy, what’s going on,” Faried told reporters, according to the Orange County Register. “It’s basically messed up. Disrespectful. This country was founded on immigrants, and this country supposedly lets you have any religion, doesn’t matter. And for (Trump) to have a Muslim ban is the utmost disrespect. I’m Muslin, and I take that personally.”

Pistons forward Stanley Johnson

Watching what’s happening around the country and I’m angry that in 2017 this is our reality. We are all Americans and we ALL have power! I challenge everyone to make their voices heard in whatever way they can to fight injustice. #NoBanNoWall #MuslimBan

A photo posted by Stanley Johnson (@omostanimal) on Jan 30, 2017 at 12:58pm PST

Lakers forward Luol Deng

I am a #ProudRefugee. http://pic.twitter.com/4aeMY98vaJ

— Luol Deng (@LuolDeng9) January 30, 2017

Deng later spoke out on President Trump’s travel ban after his Lakers’ 120-116 win over the Nuggets.

“I’ve watched the news and I’ve read a lot. If you really want to look into that, you’ve got to go into facts and what is true and what is not,” Deng said, according to the Orange County Register’s Mark Medina. “From what I understand, I haven’t seen a lot of refugees committing terrorist acts in this country I’m speaking about.

“We don’t know where it goes afterward,” he said. “So, right now, it’s just hope and being patient and seeing where it goes. No matter what, there’s always hope.”

Suns head coach Earl Watson

"I think it's un-American. I think it's unconstitutional. I think it's ridiculous. And I think we can be better than that. We've always been as a nation leaders and everything that I feel is important, things such as diversity, accepting people of all races and creed and religion, we have to understand we cannot go backwards and we cannot hold status quo. Status quo means someone else is getting better and we'll get passed up anyway. We have to push forward with a mindset that diversity is great, which is why our country is phenomenal, and understand that you can't ever create segregation in any form whether it's gender, sexuality or religion. It can never happen. That's what makes America great. I have Muslim friends. I have Jewish friends. I have Christian friends. Nondenominational friends. I have Mormon friends. A lot of those guys were my teammates and became my friends for life. Their families became my family."

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janiedean · 6 years

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@nederys all of you guys kinda lost your shit but i don't think you're being consistent at all. you didn't go for it being misinformed or wrongly placed, just that it was "gross" bc it was "romanticizing" blabla, like if someone made a fic about ETA terrorists or whatever and i advocated censorship and asked for it not to exist. when you accept kink and RPF, you need to stand on that principle even when it's YOUR personal/national. shaming ppl into submission is the anti strategy and it doesnt actually convince anybody of anything, much literally if it's screaming in another language to the OPs. i didnt wanna reblog or anything but i was very unpleasantly surprised with how you guys handled the situation (and i say this bc i care and i know you value rationality, not to piss you off YOUR personal/national sensibility like if someone wants to write a fic 'romanticizing' tec bundy murders or a rape fantasy or whatever it's their field day just tag it properly, it's no different for a criminal organization as i see it. a piece of sexual fantasy or literary work is not a guarantee it's portrayed in an accurate way or that it's a moral endorsementj + I'll hear your argument on 'positive representation' so i'll take your word for now but it did really come of like "your evil porn is romanticizing evil irl so it should be censored". as for the bad taste etc thing - as long as the person in question doesn't find out i dont personally see the harm. other ppl getting second-handed distastefulness/offense about it is a slippery slope, bc again that quickly devolves into "ugh why you write about rape! / rpf! if you can write kink porn and you can do rpf (like i mean, what, we just tweak the hair color and the initials to make it 'fictional'?) - it follows you can write "distasteful" kink porn about rpf all you want. it's still fiction.okay in order

In order:

as I said in the other reply, people lost their shit because we’ve had this discussion for years and every time it happens SOMEONE (most likely american but not necessarily) shows yup informing us that since mafia in US english means generally organized crime and not THAT specific organized crime we need to chill and WHO CARES YOU’RE OVERREACTING. at some point there’s a limit to how much nice you can be when you’ve been trying nicely for years and people just dismiss you most likely also because you’re not poc enough to complain - again, when it happens with people who can fall into the POC definition doing this kinda stuff automatically means you’re racist, but with us it’s not even disrespectful? or recognized as potentially harmful? fine, we lost our shit, but it’s also not the first time it happens;

the point isn’t that they were making a fic about the mafia, but if we take the ETA terrorism similitude, it wasn’t ‘making a fic abut ETA’. it was, ‘we are making an RPF fic where we take a real living spanish actor who has a friend who died during an ETA bombing and we make him the commander of an ETA faction which plants a bomb in madrid’. I’d find it distasteful if it was about FICTIONAL CHARACTERS, but whatevr - it’s fictional. real people who are actually involved with those criminals on the other side? not so cool. and the fact that these people see nothing wrong with casting them as criminals for *the mafia* shows they have no idea of what they’re talking about and again, with fictional people you can try to ignore it (even if it irks me also because 90% of the time it shows a total failure of understanding the character just by casting them as mafiosi but never mind that’s my pet peeve), but real ones? who made a pro lgbt movie and are *allies* when a mafia killing actually was what kickstarted the creation of the hugest and first anti-homophobia/pro-gay lgbtq association in italy? like. that’s fucking with real people and honestly if I was the director and knew I’d feel personally slandered especially if I come from someplace where statistically everyone knows someone who’s been hurt by the mafia in the last fifty years if they weren’t themselves. like I had a friend whose father worked for the police and the antimafia division especially and lived in palermo back in the day and criminals did try to grab her out of her pre-school and they had to change cities VERY quickly after that, and I don’t even live in sicily. and she’s not even sicilian. it was twenty years ago when they planted bombs across the entire area and killed hundreds of people just in the 90s (comprehensive list). it’s not just WRITING FIC ABOUT THE MAFIA, which I could be relatively handwaving with if it was about fictional people and even then it irks me to hell and back, but real people? who make movies pro things that the mafia hates? really? and I have to hear ‘are you angry because you’re homophobes’? I don’t ask for it NOT TO EXIST, I’m asking a basic modicum of decency.

ted bundy vs mafia: ted bundy is ONE person and he’s been convicted and whatever. if someone’s personal fantasy is fucking ted bundy WHATEVER their problem. if THEY want to do the self-insert with real criminals whatever, idgi but if they’re aware of the implications whatever. the mafia is a bunch of people and they thrive on positive media representation and it’s such large scale that it fucks with this entire country on multiple levels (ad also other countries) and here you’re not using real criminals, you’re casting as criminals people who most likely have been hurt by that same organization. it’s a difference. and if you portray it as a nice organization where hey you help people bypassing the law and gay people are accepted it’s... just... not how it works.

rpf: I’m generally pro rpf as long as people don’t go to the actual real people and don’t harass them irl (which would make a lot of rpf shippers inappropriate) but like... idk if you were around in spn fandom at the time of the infamous j2 haiti fic, but if you weren’t, tldr: person sees the aftermath of the haiti earthquake on tv, thinks ‘well that’d make a perfect setting for my j2 bigbang fic’, writes an entire fic where jared and jensen go to haiti the month it happened, her artist makes art for it photoshopping those two over like... real pictures of real dead people and three betas don’t find nothing remotely cringy in this concept. the fic gets published. it gets slandered to hell and back and while I didn’t agree on assuming the author was a pre-trump (she most likely had no idea that stuff was kindaaa racist) and that she should have been educated, I’d like to presume that people would think thrice before setting a Romance Story TM on a background where when it was published people were still excavating corpses from the rubble. it’s about the same concept as the romantic mafia fic. but with the haiti fic anyone on tumblr would agree that it’s hardly appropriate, with mafia fic it’s just ‘meh shut up you’re whining’. also, while I do agree that jared and jensen, as famous people, signed up for this, too, I don’t really think using real people for this kind of thing is fair, educated or a favor to them. I get it’s all fantasy and so on, but at least use the fictional characters. I can imagine j2 wouldn’t be happy with knowing noncon fic where they’re protagonists exists, neither with the haiti fic, but the noncon is standard fandom kink and whatever and no one else is involved, the haiti fic DOES. and while the people in those pictures wouldn’t even know, if that’s what you jerk off to at least be aware that it’s not exactly tasteful. and the people mentioned had zero idea that jerking off to the *mafia* au is not tasteful and that the *mafia* is *not* random organized crime. no one would have a problem if they called them CRIMINALS or mob or whatever without using the specific mafia word, but they like it because AESTHETICS which 90% of the time aren’t even true because the godfather aesthetic is so NOT the camorra aesthetic it’s not even funny. and of course we shoudl educate people instead, too bad that if it’s about haiti they listen and if it’s about us, they don’t;

kink: same as above but like, again, let’s always use the poor j2 guys. the j2 mafia au as above is absolutely ew to me but at least j2 are american and most likely didn’t grow up somewhere the mafia could kill their relatives or friends. guadagnino did. and whether he knows or not (HOPEFULLY HE NEVER FINDS OUT) it’s another level of disrespectful to take a guy who made a pro lgbt movie you liked and putting him in that scenario without being aware of it. and they don’t listen if you tell them. that’s the problem. I can be very tolerant, but good god at least hear people out on the subject. and if it concerns a situation that isn’t even old or a dead organization but one that’s thriving in the country still and fucks people over every day I’d like for these people to recognize that at least it’s something not cool and not just their jerk off fodder material. at this point do the GODFATHER AU, which is what they want anyway, stick with the american mafia and try to not give them positive rep, because this idea of the mafia as a cool thing plays a major role in actual mafia organization marketing themselves as a good thing and makes the work of people actually fighting them way harder. if no one thought it was cool, it wouldn’t have half the influence it has. but do I ever see mafia aus with cops or conflicted henchmen or the likes? nah. it’s all SAD ROMANTIC BACKSTORY WITH CRIMINALS. call it some other way. it’s not asking that much.

also: I am entirely down with mafia stories in media and stuff - again, I ove my sopranos and boardwalk empire and goodfellas and I actually do like the godfather when a lot of people here at this point hate it too, but none of those things make it look like it’s palatable to be in the mafia. people can jerk off to it I suppose, but at least they should be aware of that. lowering the bar, it’s why I get pissed at people passing jc as a healthy nice relationship - at least own up to your badwrong and don’t sugarcoat it. in this case they don’t even own up to the fact that it’s a real thing that hurts real people, never mind caring for the feelings of the people they’re fans of - I could jerk off to my rpf faves in anything but I’d like to know I’m not doing it to something they would loathe, and if you have to at least use the fictional characters as the jerk-off material. I mean I’d feel uncomfortable af using them as jerk-off material to something I know they as people would hate. obviously I’m pro write whatever you want, but I’m also pro ‘be aware of what you’re doing and know you’re possibly jerking off to things that are actually harmful to a lot of people and if you do and are cool with that whatever but at least try to not make it look as it’s a good thing’ while at the same time assuming that someone who tells you it’s not cool is doing it because they’re HOMOPHOBES when the mafia is the most homophobic organization in existence or close to it. we do need positive rep when it comes to mafia stories and we never get it.

like, final example: if I had seen one ‘steve rogers is a cop who wants to take down the mafia-like organization’ for every ten ‘tiny boss steve rogers and his russian henchman bucky are THE POWER COUPLE OF THE NY CRIME SCENE AND THEY KISS IN FRONT OF EVERYONE AND HELP THE WEAK WHEN THE POLICE SUCKS ASS’ fics I ran into it’d be lovely, but the point is that I’ve never seen one such fic even if it’s a lot more IC for steve rogers to take down criminals than being a criminal, and if you make people notice that nicely (which we did more than once) the usual answer is ‘go fuck yourself it’s just aesthetics the mafia doesn’t hurt anyone’ when it actually did, does and will do as long as they have means to, and since this recasting of canonically good characters as *mafia* henchmen who are happy to be there and not itching to get out just really makes pass the concept that the mafia isn’t really that bad I think I/we affected people have the rights to point out that it’s already a distasteful thing that people should at least read about before assuming it’s random organized crime that can be substituted for whichever worldbuilding they like, and if they don’t care for that fine, at least avoid involving real people who actually would loathe that irl in it or, if anything, at least recognize that it’s fucked up to hell and back. and none of the people in that thread had the grace to do that.

I mean, obviously if I had to take the choice between one such fic not existing at all but censoring stuff and it existing without censoring stuff I’d pick the latter even if I absolutely don’t like it, but what irks me and the other people involved in this debate is how nonchalantly people do these recasting assuming that they’re not romanticizing the thing (which they’re doing) and then don’t listen to others when they’re pointed out that they’re doing it and they should be aware.

like, again, I think the haiti fic was a thing that no one with some salt in their brain and a basic amount of decency should have published. someone did. they got criticized for it and it sprung a lot of discussion (including comparing it with a gen kill fic set in east timor during the war which actually did it right and so no one actually thought it was exploiting a tragedy or being in bad taste) and tbh I think that when doing fic about serious things you should at least read up on that. but the point is that these people don’t listen, haven’t listened for years and most likely will keep on not listening and sorry but seeing a person from palermo who shoots movies that would make any cosa nostra boss mad being recast as a cosa nostra/mafia sicilian boss who, if compared to a, uh, real life person who died recently would deal with people seceding from this organization by ordering to kidnap their children and have them dissolved in acid at the ripe age of nine is really goddamned distateful and hearing ‘so your problem is that they’re gay is that why you’re so angry’ as a response instead of reading it and thinking ‘damn maybe that was a bit out of line’ isn’t exactly that great.

especially because again, these organization thrive on people assuming they’re less bad than they actually are and we’re not talking about stuff that happened three hundred years ago - the kid dissolved in acid happened in 1996 and it’s hardly the last time something like that happened. it’s not a general crime organization, it’s a very specific one, and I’ll be fine with people jerking off to any italian stereotype in existence while I roll my eyes and be fine with it, but at least I’d like these people to know what they’re doing. and they aren’t. and they should be. and on top of that some positive rep where the mafia people are inherently bad and the good guys want to take them down would be nice. I do get that it looks like I’m being incoherent but I’m not saying they can’t do it, I’m saying they should show a minimum of consideration, and they aren’t. then no one’s stopping them from doing it of course but just the fact that they-won’t-listen kind of says a lot. :/ and when it comes to real people and real things it’s not just fiction and you should at least be aware of that.

#nederys #janie replies #janie rants #mafia #long post for ts #child murder tw

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