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akechicrimes · 4 years

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it does matter, actually, that goro akechi is a minor. not because this somehow exonerates him morally, or because this somehow makes him not responsible for his actions, but because persona 5 is invested in children as a source of hope for a better future.

once i saw someone complain that people will defend akechi’s murders on the grounds that he’s a child/minor and how they felt that this doesnt excuse multiple counts of murder. and i was like, ok, well, im not sure anyone was excusing him, but alright, sure. and i’ve seen a few rebuttals to that, one of which is that shido and the other adults in akechi’s life had a responsibility to support akechi in such a way that it didn’t come to murder, and of course it’s on shido to just not be a massive dick who endorses fascism and murders in the first place. and i was like ok, well, this seems a little patronizing and dismissive of akechi’s agency and autonomy, but alright, sure.

in a very roundabout way of explaining my first two sentences, there’s one thing that bothers me lately, and it’s selim bradley from fullmetal alchemist: brotherhood.

for those of us not familiar with fma:b, selim, or pride, is the oldest homunculus/artificial human in the show and the second-oldest villain, despite the fact that he looks about eight years old. of the seven homunculus named after deadly sins, selim/pride is the only one to survive the show--with an asterisk, which is that selim gets the “homunculus” part of him erased by the end of the show. with the “pride” aspect of him gone, selim is mortal, without any special powers, without memories of any of his amoral acts, and is generally just a happy, normal child.

which is a weird exception to fma:b’s general rule in which every other homunculus dies. even fan favorites like greed and envy don’t live, despite the fact that greed and envy are far more sympathetic as characters. selim kills multiple people on-screen, shows zero remorse whatsoever, and is an active helper in all the other mass-murders that the homunculi engineer. selim’s not an innocent in any way. also, he’s like, 200 years old? 300? he’s very old. biologically, mentally, emotionally, selim is not a child.

but fma:b goes out of its way to make sure that selim gets a second chance at a future, just because his body looks like a child’s. cut another way, he gets an exception from a large number of terrible crimes, up to an including participation in genocide, just because he looks like a child.

fma:b reminded me that, outside of tumblr’s purity politics over children, and especially so in japan, children are socially constructed in a very specific way, beyond biological age and legal majority cutoffs.

yes, biological age is a thing. yes, legal majority is a thing. i’m not saying that being a child isn’t a biological thing--it is, obviously. but what i’m saying is that there’s a difference between, say, the sex assigned to you at birth and your gender presentation, to use an analogy. there is a such thing as biological age, but the societal status of being a child of a related but separate thing. and this status of being considered a child is a societal construct.

the social construction goes like this, insofar as i’m aware: children should be good and silent and dutiful and work hard and go to school and listen to their elders, and their elders in turn should do everything they can to guide the children to the right path and build a good society for these children to inherit. (if we want more details on this, please see the entire history of filial piety in asia.)

so that’s a social contract right there baked into the social construct of childhood: children don’t have power, but adults have an obligation to make sure they don’t need power, and to make sure that the future and their children’s futures look bright.

children represent the future, essentially. they’re the next generation. they’re simultaneously without legal rights as adults and in a very vulnerable position, for sure, but they’re also simultaneously considered the country’s most precious capital: quite literally the people who will inherit and lead the country next.

which, personally, i think puts a whole new spin on the phantom thieves in general. they’re not just kids who’re being rowdy or kids telling abusive shitty adults theyre being abusive and shitty--or, they’re kids doing those things, but they’re not just kids doing those things. they’re kids who’ve been specifically let down by adults who did not fulfill their social obligation to them. they’re kids who’ve been abandoned and neglected by the very adults who should have been paving the way forward for them, as society has asked those adults to do, because those adults have instead chosen to line their own pockets and cover their own asses.

so the kids said: alright, well, then i’ll take power for myself, and i’ll make my own future. (which is where we get a lot of those promo slogans of “steal back your future” and junk like that.)

sae’s comments about how adults should do their part to fix the world for the kids is just a resolidifying of the way the world “should” work, and we could talk about her comments on the matter, but actually i wanna talk about yoshida.

i especially want to talk about yoshida because yoshida and shido are the two politicians we see the most of, and both of them spend a lot of time reciting political rhetoric to speak to the hearts of the general japanese populace. we all know the way that shido thinks of japan: a large vehicle that one person is in control of, and the masses just compose the throne upon which the ruler sits.

we also already know that yoshida’s a Real G, but it’s worth really close-reading some of his lines. he speaks a lot about apathy, the lack of caring for each other in society--a general willingness to disregard your fellow man, to not uphold one’s social obligation to each other. but he also talks a lot about the “youth”--which is not really uncommon for a politician, obviously, since politicians are always talking about “the children” and “the kids” and “the next generation” and “those damn millennials” and all that shit.

yoshida instead gives us these fun lines:

A world where the young exist only to be exploited... is a world that must be changed!

And while our society appears to be prosperous, many of our young people are quietly suffering. They lack jobs, security, savings... The next generation will lead us into the future and yet they have no plan for how to arrive there.

Passing on the societal ills we have created to the next generation... is not right!

...the current administration refuses to discuss their plans for the future... Can we really accept such an utter lack of transparency?!

If you make a promise, you must keep it. If you make a mistake, you must atone for it. These are basic human principles that we have all learned from the youngest of ages...

yoshida’s entire thing about how the adults have let the children down isn’t just him saying shit--he’s commenting directly on the fact that the social contract has been broken, and he’s putting the blame on the administration for not upholding their responsibility to secure a future for the children, especially since the children are the future of the country.

this is partly why he doesn’t blame the phantom thieves for acting the way that they do; rather, he seems them as a logical reaction to the injustice that’s occurred as a result of the society that the adults have left for them:

I bet [the Phantom Thieves] are a group of young people. Young people who have experienced cruelty and injustice... They bravely face the societal ills that plague our world without thinking of the consequences.

(i think also in part he admires the fact that they’re anonymous and don’t benefit personally from their actions, which is exactly the opposite of what he did as a young politician. he also doesn’t throw the real embezzlement culprit under the bus to exonerate himself presumably for the same principle of desiring selfless public service instead of personal gain.)

in both the early parts of the s link and later on when yoshida starts talking with matsushita more extensively, akira’s important because he’s young--he represents the young demographic that yoshida and matsushita are discussing the future of. akira demonstrating support for yoshida in a public way means a lot because he’s a minor. matsushita asks akira for his opinions on the phantom thieves and other issues because akira is a minor. akira’s opinion is supposed to be heard and valued by adults, who should take his opinions into consideration and do their best to not let him down.

this is tied into the general thread of yoshida being a person who was self-admittedly just as corrupt as everyone else, who was blinded by glamor and fame and money, who got caught up in political scandal. yoshida’s general acceptance of his mistakes as a human being and politician ties over to his general belief that it’s not that the youth are rebellious no-good teens, but that the youth have been let down by politicians like who he used to be. he blames himself, and because he is not too different from the rest of the older generation and politicians in general, he implicates a lot of the older generation and politicians as also blame-worthy.

his quest for redemption and atonement dovetails neatly with his views on the broken societal contract. taken together, yoshida’s s link implies to us the idea that the entire general older generation in japan more or less owes the children of japan a formal apology, and the older generation better get on their redemption arc and start being the vanguard of the change for children:

The reason [the Phantom Thieves are] causing a stir is because they are addressing the world’s problems. Setting aside whether their actions are right or wrong... there is one thing I can safely say about the Phantom Thieves. A belief with conviction... has the ability to move a person’s heart.

I’m sure you are all aware that I am “No-Good Tora,” the one accused of embezzlement. However, because I was accused like that, I was able to understand the suffering of the weak. Why am I in politics? In the past, it was merely for personal gain. But why do the Phantom Thieves continue to change hearts? I believe they do it for the world and its people. And in choosing to do justice for others, they had no choice but to disguise themselves. No matter what the world says, I fully support them.

I’m just an average citizen. However, I will continue to voice my beliefs. I may not be able to become a Diet member this election... and I may not be able to effect change during my lifetime... but I’ve made my peace with that. I will be happy as long as I can be a meaningful stepping stone for the future of our youth!

okay. so that was a lot of close reading about yoshida. why did we do this exercise, tumblr user akechicrimes.

there’s two takeaways from this. the first is the one that yoshida has already talked about extensively, which is that the phantom thieves are just but not because Fuck Cops and Fuck Capitalism and Fuck Anime Jeff Bezos. the phantom thieves are just because the people who are supposed to be upholding society aren’t doing their fucking jobs. the phantom thieves are specifically saying: we’ve been let down by society, so apparently we have to do everything our goddamn selves around here.

(which also ties in neatly to the general “fuck cops” vibe of persona 5 which, i would like to say, is very specifically “the cops are not doing their jobs.” the TV station scene where akira speaks back to akechi is, if i’m remembering this right, maybe the ONLY time we really hear “akira’s” opinion on the morality of his own activities, which is fascinating because he just does these things without ever justifying himself to the player--anyway, his three options are: (1) They’re justice itself, (2) They’re necessary, and (3) They do more than the cops. so akira can’t ever at any point say that the phantom thieves are bad, but his most interesting and detailed answer is to point out that the cops aren’t doing what they’re supposed to do, so who can really blame the phantom thieves for doing what the cops aren’t?)

the second takeaway is that yes, goro akechi does get more leniency because he’s a minor.

yes. seriously. this isn’t a matter of excusing what he did, or downplaying the fact that he committing murder. i’m not saying that he wasn’t old enough to make decisions (although i would never say that he was old enough to make decisions, because he was 14/15 when he got wrapped up in shido’s conspiracy). i’m also not saying that akechi, somehow for some reason, didn’t volunteer himself willingly, because all the evidence points to the fact that he did (although of course “free will” is also highly circumspect considering his living conditions at the time and the fact that shido makes it clear that he was able to manipulate akechi without ever infringing on akechi’s sense of autonomy). i’m not even saying that akechi was driven to the point of murder and had no other choice (although i think that might also be true as well).

what i am saying is that under the construction of childhood as japan’s future and japan’s hope, akechi is considered a valuable member of society, and is therefore worth saving.

or at least he should be.

akechi says that he’s an unwanted child, but “unwanted child,” according to yoshida’s rhetoric (and a lot of japan’s general rhetoric of children as hope for the future) is an oxymoron. (or at least it would be an oxymoron if japan weren’t so fucking hypocritical.) you can’t not want the future of the country. you can’t not want hope for a good future. the very idea that a child could be not wanted or not valuable doesn’t make any sense, because children are the future--in some ways, whether you like it or not, that child is going to inherit the earth when you’re dead.

the kind of person who’d not want those things is--well, shido. (this is why i used yoshida; yoshida and shido are two polar opposite politicians.) shido quite literally does not want a good future for anyone in the country and quite literally does not want akechi and quite literally does not see akechi, one of the very young-person citizens that shido is supposed to be serving, as useful or valuable in any way unless akechi is directly promoting shido’s fame and popularity. shido being akechi’s father is just a very neat and nice way of literalizing the ways that shido, as an adult, has let down akechi as a child--the ways that shido quite literally owed akechi something to make akechi’s life and future better, and instead did everything awful.

there should not ever be a thing like “unwanted child.” that in and of itself, from the start of akechi’s life, was nonsensical. and to the extent that shido being akechi’s father is allegorical of the ways that shido is a terrible patriarch for japan, i would say that akechi, as an unwanted foster child, is just another allegory for the ways that children nowadays are treated as misbehaving, lazy good-for-nothings who have to work themselves into the dirt to be given half the salary and half the praise. akechi, as an unwanted child, is just the personification and representative of an apparently unwanted generation.

what i’m getting at is that akechi’s status as a minor (and yes he’s a minor even if he’s eighteen; age of majority in japan is twenty)--akechi’s status as a minor is a critical part of why akechi gets a shot at a redemption arc. so yes, actually, the other villains or palace-rulers don’t get redemption arcs because they are adults, who had a societal obligation to do better by their peers and by the children of japan. yes, actually, akechi’s informal “trial” in the hands of fandom is to be tried as a minor and not as an adult. yes, i know kamoshida didn’t kill anyone and akechi’s literal crimes are more morally repugnant, but yes, unfortunately, being a minor does actually exonerate him on the morality spectrum to a degree.

being a child matters in the larger scheme of persona 5′s logic of who owes who, who’s responsible for who, and why we should not be apathetic. adults owe children a better future. adults have been letting children down. adults owe every single phantom thief, including akechi, an apology, a better future, and health and happiness; and they owe that to japan’s future not as a matter of exchange or morals, but simple social obligation. adults are supposed to take care of the kids--full stop.

”okay but @ tumblr user akechicrimes?? akechi KILLED people.”

yeah, i know. i said “being a minor does actually exonerate him on the morality spectrum to a degree.”

what degree? no idea. that’s up to you to decide. if you want to play in the black-grey-white morality scale that only goes two ways, you’re welcome to continue to ask “what degree.” we can argue that being a minor somehow reels akechi back from the “black” end of the spectrum into the “grey” or “white” parts.

but (if i may be permitted to go completely off the shits into things that might make people pissed off at me for saying) i implore you to consider that this two-way scale of morality is not the line of thought that persona 5 is pursuing.

this, again, ties back into the social construction of a child. i’ve said “a child is representative of the country’s future” so many times i think it’s lost meaning, so let me dice it a different way: a child is socially constructed as representative of potential and hope. a child is socially constructed as the capacity for things to get better. in persona terms, a child is the fool at the start of their journey, all futures contained in one present, a vast multitude of could-be’s.

for a game very concerned with japan’s general societal ruin, children are not just in the position of having been let down by adults, but are--as the phantom thieves demonstrate--representative of better futures regardless of how terrible circumstances look in the current day. they are a source of believing one day this sad, depressing story might actually end with “and then they lived happily ever after.”

if i may go even more completely off the shits, take a look at this heckler from yoshida’s s link, which is the one that akira speaks back to in the middle of yoshida’s speech:

...I’ve been wrong this whole time. Even though someone has failed in the past, it doesn’t mean that person can’t try again.

this is to say, redemption arcs insofar as persona 5 (and also persona 5 royal, i think) is concerned is not a question of necessarily addressing the wrongs that have occurred. yoshida sets the bar pretty high in that yoshida does not ask for forgiveness for what he’s done, and instead simply accepts his actions and their consequences without attempting to lessen the blow. he embraces what he’s done in all its awfulness.

but because akechi is a a minor, and because akechi as a minor is getting wrapped up in persona 5′s train of thought about kids as the hopeful futures of japan, akechi is at the very least owed a chance to do better. as a minor, japan is societally contracte to give him the space to have the potential to be better and do better. nobody is obligated to forgive him, and indeed neither royal nor akechi ever seem to entertain this as a valid possibility. forgive, forget, reconciliation, retribution, and resolution seem to be all off the table, as if the very idea would minimize haru or futaba’s losses. the very conceit of the dreamworld in P5R wants to shoot down the very idea that the past can ever, to any degree, be fixed, remedied, or even emotionally resolved. akechi will have always killed wakaba and okumura and this fact will always be awful--full stop.

nevertheless, despite the fact that the past cannot be changed, akechi is still a minor. rather than attempting to resolve the issues of the past, akechi is still owed the space to become a beacon of potential change for the better in the future--which is also known as hope.

i’ve said this in other posts elsewhere, but persona games are like, obsessed with hope. they fucking adore that shit. why not? even in difficult times, even when things are terrible and you’re going through misery, if you at least have hope that one day things will be better, that life will change, that the new generation will step up to the plate and make the story have a happy ending, pain becomes easier to bear. and why not? persona games cover a breadth of difficult topics.

especially in a game like P5, which talks at length about modern day japan’s ailments, what good is it if the player walks away with a defeatist attitude that the future will be terrible?

if reality is malleable like morgana says, isn’t the first step to have hope that this is true?

this post has gone on a lot longer than i thought it would. but in any event. that’s why it is valid to say that akechi being a minor “exonerates” him to a degree.

also selim bradley lives because fma:b concurs that children are a hope for a better future and fma:b is particularly invested in this line of thought because it’s a story about edward transitioning from a child to a young adult who is learning about the ways that the world works and is also still just childlike enough to propose that the world shouldn’t have to work in the bloody, awful way that it does. selim is representative that all children should be given as many chances as possible to do and be better because they are representative of potential. if that wasn’t clear. lmao.

#meta #mine

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natsunoomoi · 4 years

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Diving Further In

So just going deeper into this SVSSS rabbit hole. Still in earlier chapters because I work, but just poking around online again because again I really just like looking at Shen Qingqiu’s face and also Liu Qingge’s look isn’t so bad either.

But like I came across some stuff that’s spoilers for me and it said that they are a popular ship together? But like also a lot of people question if Qingge is straight which the author said and I found curious that a lot of people seem to dispute that? So then I looked more and it seems people are citing an extra story where the two of them go to fight some succubi in a cave. I read the story, and I don’t really see it myself? Like I can see how some people could read that it implies that he is actually interested in Shen Qingqiu and maybe a little jealous, but also I can also see how it doesn’t necessarily and also aligns with the author saying that he is straight. This isn’t to say that I want to kill anyone’s ship or anything, but just want to point out how what MXTX is saying isn’t exactly crazy either.

I’m not really sure, but I think it might be because I’m asexual myself so even my own experience going through life there’s a lot of things that maybe other people who aren’t ace interpret as more romantic that I don’t think so at all and it’s gotten me in trouble sometimes where I feel like I’m just having pleasant conversation with people but people think I’m flirting? I’m just being nice and talking? I don’t understand?

But just the same like even for me if someone says something that could possibly suggest that I’m involved in something or that I like someone even if I don’t, I still get flustered and blush because people are talking about my private life even if I don’t actually like the person. And then they become convinced that that’s the person I like because I’m blushing as we are having a conversation about if I like someone.

Like truthfully, in the 4th grade I had an interaction with a classmate that I had that I thought I had an amicable friendship with. During the first week or so of school a bee came into the classroom and landed on my desk and my classmate killed it for me and I was scared and eternally grateful, so at a later date later I gave him like a small gift or something as a thank you. My classmates thought it meant I liked him or something and I was VERY CONFUSED. I was literally just grateful for the help with the bee and he’s always been kind and helpful to me in class so I didn’t really think anything of it, and just simply you do nice things for people who are nice to you right? It’s a very simple and pure thought, but I learned from that experience and misunderstanding that normally people don’t do that for people who are just your friends. I think they also thought I did because apparently I was staring at him a lot when we were on a field trip, but like during the field trip he was also goofing around and jumping on the bus and stuff. How do you not look at someone making a ruckus?

So basically, in reading the succubus story, I kind of thought about something like that for Qingge. Like if I were him, I would be a little surprised also that the description sounded a bit like me and like I’m sure just as Shen Qingqiu is going through all the women he knows, Qingge is also running through all the people who knows that Qingqiu hangs out with and realizes that he is with him an awful lot. I’m somewhat serious as well, and even though I’m focused on getting the job done, it’s not like I’m not trying to look out for my friends and their interests so I’d want to still listen too to learn more about them as a friend and even to find out how I can be a better friend to them or like encourage them in the future. Plus like nothing else was happening in the cave, so you just get bored and listen to what's happening. Same as me on the field trip. Space out staring out the window or turn in the direction of the commotion on the bus.

I also think that part of Qingge’s alarm is that the succubus mentions that the person is his junior, and I think most people would normally exclude anyone who was a student or disciple of theirs. He probably didn’t even consider someone who was from a younger generation as he was running through the list of people in his mind, and the description does sound like him and to me it reads like because he is straight and doesn’t think of his friend in that way exactly, he’s having a kind of panic attack and questioning himself internally trying to discern if it is him and his own feelings. But at the same time, he doesn’t want to say any more or explain himself because its not like he wants to be mean to his friend either.

Like I’ve had times like that too where people apparently maybe liked me, but I just didn’t like them that way or I was emotionally unavailable because I liked someone else. And then when you’re in grade school you do those fortune telling games where you write the names of different boys in your class and stuff and it’s not serious, but sometimes you don’t want to be mean if like the fortune tells you it matched you to one person or another. Like even if you’re friends and it’s just that you don’t feel them that way, if you played that game and got matched with them and then shouted, “Eww! Gross!” Isn’t that awful? So like, I think he thought that the succubus was talking about him, so he said it was inaccurate, but also just like got really flustered because it’s a private topic like I would, but at the same time tried to keep his eye on the ball and complete the mission while also balancing trying to not to be a dick to his friend. Like even asking the other questions to me sounds like panicking and trying to find out more info to check if it is him, because he isn’t aware of Binghe’s future either. It’s kind of a mess of emotions and trying to balance everything he’s taking in his actual personal feelings and trying not to offend his friend. All that together I think would make me embarrassed and give me a stormy look too.

So I dunno, I kind of feel like if I was in his place I would react much the same even if I didn’t have feelings for Qingqiu. The idea of Qingge being straight sounds totally reasonable to me, and Qingge is like the traditionally virtuous macho guy of Chinese lit. Incredible martial skill and stoic and very work-oriented. Like I like looking at Qingqiu’s face a lot, but when I was young a stoic and work-oriented guy like Qingge was my ideal man because I thought they would never cheat on me because they would have the self-control to keep it in their pants. As I got older I started to realize that such a person was not actually realistic and I became disappointed as I came into middle school and realized my ideal was most likely a Buddhist monk who could not get married to my utter disappointment. A lot of other characters I like in my fandom often have the same trait where they canonically don’t seem to show any kind of attraction to almost anyone really because of my fear. Guys who chase skirts all the time are the least appealing to me.

But like also, Qingge being the stereotypical manly man kind of character leads me to remember other stuff about Chinese culture as well that maybe blur the lines that perhaps other readers don’t pick up on because it’s not part of their culture? Like Chinese culture is very heavily influenced by Confucianism and even more classic lit that has a history that actually pre-dates Confucianism is written to have a Confucianism bent because it was a popular thing by the time it was actually written down to paper. It was already so pervasive in society by that time so there’s a lot of stories where we don’t know their “original form” but the Confucian ideas in it are highly influential and if that story is particularly notable or influential in itself, it trickles and affects the thoughts and ideas of the entire culture and all of our stories. Like Journey to the West is probably one of the most influential of the classics in all of East Asia, and while it’s mostly a Buddhist allegory, it does have bits and pieces of Confucianism in it and upholds the cardinal relationships. All this is to say, that this philosophy is pervasive and needs to be taken into consideration if we’re looking at how people behave in a Chinese story. Sometimes character actions can be affected by it, and sometimes they’re not. Binghe being a stallion novel protagonist with a traumatic past that involves demons is probably way beyond the scope of Confucius’ ideas, but Qingge being the traditional man’s man so to speak, absolutely falls within it. He is that kind of character because he follows those ideals and mannerisms.

That is important because Confucianism highlights very strongly loyalty. It comes in the form of filial piety and so on and so forth, but being loyal to your community, your ruler/boss, your family, and so on was really important. Spousal loyalty you can throw a side eye at and question because it’s mostly only one way if we wanna be real, but even though it was one way there was a prescribed way to behave still. So then some people kind of criticized Qingge’s sexuality because he dedicated himself for so long to doing something for Qingqiu. But that like doesn’t necessarily mean anything either because of loyalty to help your friends or someone who specifically helped you or even to your clan/sect/family especially which Qingqiu falls into. You do that for people you have obligations to. Bear in mind, I also gave an actual gift to a boy who just saved me from a bee landing on my desk and had all of my classmates completely misunderstand that, so Qingge’s meta situation is a mood for me.

The other thing is, what is considered to be acceptable male behavior is probably a lot wider traditionally in Chinese society also because of Confucianism. Specifically because Confucius was very, VERY, misogynistic. There’s a lot of merit to think about into the things he thought about for some bases of the cardinal relationships, but any time he delved into anything regarding gender relations he was pretty much full of shit. Like in principle, a ruler is the head and the ministers under the ruler are like the body making the ideas from the head happen. That sounds like a pretty sound metaphor to how to run a country or a company even. Like maybe if you’re the CEO as the head of the company you don’t do something that benefits your head only and spites your workers equivalent to like cutting off your own feet (like making them work if they have coronavirus). That sounds like a horrible way to keep your company going, right? How would a "body" last and succeed without feet? (It should be noted that this metaphor also works for why Binghe's punishment of the original Qingqiu via human stick was super appropriate for his mistreatment because disciple Binghe was a subordinate and should have been treated better according to the rights). So Confucius’ ideas in things like that seemed pretty reasonable. His ideas on women, however, were not.

As a base, we should probably start with Taoism which is the source of all the cultivation lore in this book anyway. But the very simplest and most well-known symbol from Taoism is the yin-yang symbol. Yang is a positive male energy and yin is a negative female energy. Positive and negative are not actually good vs evil in terms of contrast, but are more like photons and electrons. Just two kinds of energies that coexist in the world and create a balance and cannot fully stand on their own without the other, and there’s a little bit of each in each one. Black is not pure black, but has a little white. White is not pure white, but has a bit of white, so basically nothing is perfect. This alone could be misogynistic too, but not necessarily. Depends on how much a person runs with that.

Confucius really ran with it though. He really thought and it was popularized that women were “inherently evil” because of their genitalia. Absolutely full of shit, but I think he was trying to point out how a lot of men act the fool over trying to chase skirts and get laid. It’s really shitty that he blames women for just inherently being temptresses just because they have that genitalia and it spreads to their overall oppression and lack of rights, but at the same time he does to an extent tell men to be accountable for falling into the temptation. Dalliance with women was only necessary to continue the family line and otherwise was thought should be avoided because our ladies are just too tempting and distracting. He warns men to stay away and control themselves, but unhappily for the wrong reasons. With that backdrop, he even went as far as to say that sex between men was better than with a woman because well, you’re not messing with that “evil”. In that respect, he heavily, HEAVILY encouraged relationships with other men and boys clubs including ones where people get drunk and make paintings and poetry with each other. So some level of intimate closeness between even straight men was normal too, so you have to kind of alter your perspective to look at this and find "signals".

These kinds of teachings were thought of to an extent in China, but didn’t really affect the LGBT scene of ancient China because the filial piety part of ensuring the next generation was top priority. Homosexuality as a word even didn’t exist in the Chinese language until more modern times as an import from Japan because the above teachings we just discussed *really* took off in Japan where I guess filial piety was less important. A huge amount of pre-modern same-sex lit came out of Japan including lover suicide themes because damn, I love you so much but we can’t be together because one of us isn’t a woman and we have obligations. Let’s drown ourselves in the river and hope in the next life we can be reincarnated together as a couple that can actually consummate our love. This was a thing in Japan. Onnagata in Kabuki were also to an extent another level and extension of this. In China, it wasn’t like same-sex relationships didn’t happen, but it wasn’t openly discussed because of filial piety. Generally everyone just got married and basically had a cover family and after you had a child to pass on the family legacy, people could not care less what you did privately. If you can imagine it, there were likely some shady dealings here and there with how to deal with this problem too because I can’t imagine that everyone was really down with forcing themselves to be intimate with someone no matter how much they wanted to get their parents off their back, but that kind of family secret was probably deeply buried. It’s also not like people didn’t talk at all about relations with the same sex because people looked at temples with a bunch of men together all practicing Buddhism and thought surely something must be happening, but obviously none of that would be officially recorded or openly discussed. The whole scene was just under the surface and not talked about because it was important to keep appearances and the appearance was that you had an actual family and fulfilled your filial duty. It’s only been recently where the idea of homosexuality as an orientation and being talked about openly as something beyond a secret you do after fulfilling your family obligations, and that’s why the word had to be imported in in modern times.

So with all that in mind, actual bromances that aren’t even actually romantic at all between straight men totally seems normal in the context of this culture. Relationships with other men were very highly valued, and if Qingge is a basically traditionally perfect Chinese man he would basically follow this ideal and would likely have some behavioral traits that seem questionable to a modern audience.

I would also think Confucius would have a problem with romantic relationships between a master and disciple. It's thought to usually be similar to a surrogate parent-child situation, so awkward. But original Qingqiu had some designs on Yingying and while that's kind of a violation-ish too, Yingying is also female and you're expected to obey your father, husband, and son so eh.... not that weird because they aren't actually family. The specifics of two men though is a different matter not commonly discussed obviously. Generally you sought a master to better yourself and grow virtue, but if you start a romantic relationship with them it equalizes your dynamic and they become more of a peer than someone you learn from, so in Qingge's mind because he is traditionally virtuous Binghe was likely not on the radar at all because why would anyone mess with that mentor-student relationship? It has to be from among the other leaders in their sect that the succubus is talking about to his mind.

This is probably circular, but I’ve been writing this up for over an hour late at night. XD

Sources: life, heritage, reading classic lit books, and at least 3 courses discussing gender representation in East Asia at UCI (arguably almost all my coursework covered these ideas to a degree)

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skeptictankj · 7 years

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Some sharp-eyed folks noticed a line in the most recent Adversaries of the Righteous that seemed to imply the Realm may now have same-sex marriage in 3E.

Here’s the gameline’s editor, Stephen Lea Sheppard, responding to questions on that:

"Re: Gay marriage: When Exalted was launched in 2001, and when Dynastic society was conceived for publication in the first Dragon-Blooded hardcover published in April 2002, gay marriage wasn't legal in the US and the idea that it might get legalized in less than, like, thirty years felt like a pipedream. There are solid in-setting reasons why the Dynasty might not treat gay marriage as even a thing, and adherence to that sort of internal verisimilitude was valued highly by the setting designers, I believe to the game's strength many years later. It is now 2017 and gay marriage has been the law of the land in the USA for years. The Dynasty is deliberately terrible. It is an engine of murderous exploitation informed by everything from King Leopold's Ghost to the Draka Domination. One of the Aspect Books features the story of a Dragon-Blooded mother who, unhappy with how weak and soft she believes her child to be, literally feeds her child's favorite nannies alive to sharks, ostensibly in the name of toughening him up but also because the mother is a bitter, vindictive old ass. But that's not the only thing the Dynasty is. The Dynasty is also Exalted's primary "social play" venue -- it's the part of the setting you set your game in if you want to do Game of Thrones or other courtly romance games, or Dynastic highschool hijinx. It's full of awful political backbiting and dark family secrets and also galas and balls and schools and sophisticated high society, based on but not always visibly engaging with terrible economic exploitation of the rest of the world. It is at once a villain for PCs to confront in some games, and a setting for other PCs to thrive within in other games. Because the Dynasty is in so many ways so terrible, it feels really weird to keep all those terrible factors and then say "Despite their natalism and domineering attitude towards their children and focus on filial piety and borderline-to-obviously-not-borderline abusive childrearing techniques, the Dynasty is surprisingly tolerant and enlightened when it comes to same-sex relationships!" ...but it also feels unconscionable to tell LGBT players "Ahah, even now after you can get gay married in real life, the primary social play venue of our imaginary fantasyland does not support gay marriage for your original characters (do not steal), because of reasons!" The setting exists the way it does because we write it that way. You can't hide behind "But it makes no sense because setting" when you're the reason the setting is the way it is. So gay marriage in the Dynasty in 3e is no longer just not a thing. All the factors motivating its discouragement are still around -- the Realm's interest in strong inheritence tracking and precise lineage records, its distrust of sorcerers and demons, the unreliability of sorcerous workings -- but they also exist in the context of a world that's been run by god- and element-chosen heroes shaping the world according to their epic passions since the dawn of history. When your best friend in secondary school now wields an ancestral heirloom daiklave that was famously forged during the Shogunate because of its creator's anger that arranged marriage prevented her from being with her chosen wife, and its use in pursuit of that grievance lead to the extinction of three family lines, the death of a regional daimyo, a volcanic eruption, and a tsunami that reshaped the coastline in ways you can still see centuries later when you visit your summer home, grandkids via demon midwife are still not what you want, but they don't look so much like the end of the world."

#exalted #exalted 3rd edition

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courage-a-word-of-justice · 7 years

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Showa Genroku 5 – 13, 15 | Classicaloid 14 | Masamune-kun’s Revenge 2 | Osomatsu-san 16

(ep 5)

You can hear the sarcasm in his (Sukeroku’s) voice, even with only subs. Actually, both Kiku and Sukeroku have their sarcastic moments.

How does the charcoal not burn the cushion?

You can clearly tell she’s got him wrapped around her little finger. Pretty ambitious, in those times.

Apparently injured legs can feel when rain is coming…that sort of thing.

In an age without phones, there’s more need for socialisation.

Basically, this is the equivalent to a high school or uni play. Low budget as ever.

Tanuki…well, they’re pranksters. Of course.

It seems pretty sexist in this day and age, but back then…welp. Let’s not complain about comparisons between some so-called “good ol’ days” and the present.

(ep 6)

“I don’t need lectures from a bum like you.” – Especially a drunk bum…

Even if it’s selfish to take something because of the thrill…I do kinda miss my days of scanlation. It’s hard to get a thrill like the one I got when I did that. Heh heh. Well, 2017’s going to be another intense year filled with Japanese, because even though I’ve shifted my education once more, I stuck Japanese in there again.

The texture on the smoking pot is quite something. Huh.

That’s a biiiiiiig cicada…

Hey, a Yotaro. Is that Daiku Shirabe Yakumo 7th’s doing?

Miyokichi says “gokigenyou”. I have enough lip reading skills to detect that, at least.

Who wrote the signs at the rakugo stage? I wonder…

(ep 7)

There always seem to be more women during Kiku’s performances.

The humour in this is a bit slapstick, but that’s why Charlie Chaplin is a household name now, right?

How many Es are in Tennessee, anyway? I never kept count…4? Okay then.

The ear picker is a sign of romance and intimacy. In Japan, anyway.

Extra “that” in the subs.

“Master Bonsai” sounds like such a cliché.

The “slice of eye” technique is just so effective. I’m lucky I’m not a film school student, or else I wouldn’t be eloquent enough.

A two futatsume show wouldn’t sell. Didn’t you say that a few episodes ago, Sukeroku?

(ep 8)

The master’s (Bonsai’s) fanning himself so much, it must be summer.

You need to win favours for a shinuchi promo…hmph. Better note that on the wiki.

Come to think of it, this was the age of letters, wasn’t it? Sukeroku’s right.

The Sukeroku and Miyokichi scene is so powerful, you can’t look away from it.

Drinks solve everything for these guys…sheesh.

Sometimes antagonising Kiku ain’t the answer, Sukeroku.

Without Sukeroku, kiku just kept clinging on to his part…huh. This part suddenly made a lot more sense, now that ep 14’s clarified Yotaro’s purpose.

The thing about this show is that it’s quite the acquired taste – you come for the humour, stay for the drama…or something along those lines. I spotted Sukeroku’s name on the very right, by the way.

(ep 9)

The dressing room is the “comfort room” in Japanese.

Of course Kiku wouldn’t be Sukeroku’s partner in crime for something like pissing the masters off…

I think it was “Edo flair”, subbers, but it was kinda hard to notice…

With those tired eyes, Kiku looks like Jean Otus (of ACCA).

These foreboding shots of light on water…hmph.

Note Amano’s got a fan that says “Japan one” literally, but whether it implies he’s number one in Japan or something else is number one in Japan is entirely up to debate.

There was a typo in the subs, but since the erroneous part was “While her husband it out…”, unless the actual word is “is”...I dunno what the correct word is.

The angles in this show are part of the personality. However, as Hand Shakers tells us, too much of a good thing can spoil it. Good thing this toes the line properly.

“Storyteller” is the appropriate equivalent for rakugoka, but “storyteller” doesn’t seem to do a story about rakugo justice. You need the jargon to make the world come alive, I feel.

You can tell Haruko Kumota used to be a BL author before from the way Sukeroku and Kiku act and react in that end scene of the ep.

(ep 10)

The cat…and the box-in technique from Erased. Letting go…is a theme in this show. Didn’t I say that already?

The kanji for “7th generation” was pretty nasty in regards to stroke count. No wonder they simplified it.

Shinigami. Of course he’d unleash that on the audience. Watching again has allowed me to really study Kiku as a person.

I wonder, are there full texts for these rakugo stories somewhere (like those books the apprentices memorise from)? I’d like to read them all someday, even if it’s just a testament to how much Japanese I’ve learnt.

In a world full of filial piety, the man really shouldn’t piss off his ancestors.

With that hat, Kiku looks like something out of Joker Game. Plus, even though the old person says “these days they have their televisions”, nowadays it’s “these days they have their phones and their internet” (in a spot of irony for me, LOL). In the end, technology will be too good for rakugo…and that’s what makes this show all the more interesting for me. Me, who wants to understand the past but still advance to the future.

For bad pun central, stop right here. The English “equivalents” to some of these Japanese puns really are kinda corny, and that’s saying something…since I’ve been looking at joke books since I was a kid.

How old is “old”, old man? If Konatsu’s calling you old, the internet is old.

(ep 11)

On the wall near Kiku are the signs “beer” and “tsukimi soba” (moon viewing soba). There’s another one past the one with a woman on it, but I can’t really make it out.

Oh, it’s the sign! Unfortunately I don’t know the second kanji, so I can’t tell you what it says.

This scene with the bag always makes me laugh. Every time, I tell you.

Konatsu’s got dango in her mouth. How do I explain dango…they’re sticky. Kinda like mochi. Never had them myself though.

I think ep 11 really shows how far Kiku’s come as a rakugoka.

(ep 12)

The word used for “inn” is ryokan. People tend to translate that as “(traditional) Japanese inn” in order to contrast with “hotel” and such.

The “chopsticks over the edge of the balcony” scene…now that I think of it, that is some heavy foreshadowing.

Is there a man who doesn’t like women? Probably.

Is it possible to make art using the spirit (behind it) alone?

Shibahama. Of course. Also, I’d never heard the term “a total lush” until this episode, I don’t think.

If only Sukeroku were like Kuma…haha. (sad tone)

I never thought about it until TV Tropes brought it up, but Miyokichi really is yandere.

When a grown man is driven to tears…you know stuff’s gone down.

Hey, there was no OP or ED on the ep now, was there?

(ep 13) [Trigger warnings: death, hell, political commentary etc..]

What is “inter[ring] the ashes”?

The world has had some horrors to get globalised like it is today…unfortunately, there’s nothing we can do about it.

You put an end to oral traditions by not having anyone to pass them on…that’s the scary part of this show. Also, all the boxing in looks like Yakumo’s going to hang himself, and that’s the point. Which is even scarier.

I think this show’s only gone off model once.

Enma being the king of hell.

In English, Konatsu’s words are even more deceiving in regards to her “drink”.

Yotaro does the “bwong” bit more fast and lively than Yakumo.

Such a rebellious spirit (Konatsu) wouldn’t be right, tied down by marriage.

Oh yeah…I forgot they announced the “Rakugo Association President” thing in this ep.

“Lately all we hear about is deaths…” – Basically 2016 for the wider entertainment world. (Then came Trump. Aye carumba, what is the world coming to?)

Wait, do you want to shake Yotaro or the man who impregnated Konatsu?

I wonder how the reality of the Sukeroku scene played out…maybe it demonstrates his senility, interpreted one way.

Lilies, chrysanthemums and daisies…white is the symbol of death in Japan. (The chrysanthemums are yellow but the theme is the same.)

(ep 15)

Fresh new ep…well, I’ve been keeping this one since it first rolled out to the public, so it’s not entirely fresh. However, this is as fresh as it’ll get in regards to how the simulcast commentary goes.

Urk, why must CR be so insistent with turning “Descending Stories” into the title? It’s hardly convenient.

Imawa no Shinigami…I saw the video on ANN. It’s a nice song, but hard to put on repeat because the visuals are so good.

Whoa, even I can tell how fast Yota’s motormouthing, and I’m not even listening to it!

“Fussing to the shamisen”? What’s that?

She (Konatsu) clearly mouthed “papa”, and I think that word goes across multiple languages.

Huh. There’s no identifying name on this story, and it seems so crucial. That’s why I asked for a full guide of them (like the books that you sometimes see Kiku practising out of).

You can tell what books I’ve studied and the random things I’ve picked up from the quotes I can spout at a moment’s notice. For example: “…full of sound and fury, signifying nothing…”

Amaken’s eyes are funny while he gripes about the shinuchi’s role.

Who is this glasses guy? I can’t read the kanji…

Kappore. It’s something like this, anyway.

Was that a non-language-barrier pun? (About how the story suddenly switched to being about women in Yoshiwara.)

He’s (Yotaro’s) motormouthing again…

Higuchi really is a spanner in the works for Yakumo, eh? Especially because it turns out he’s the one who begged Yakumo for work the day 7th Yakumo collapsed. Karma’s such a pain in the butt, isn’t it?

Oh no! I-If Kiku dies next ep…where will the story be? Surely, we have Yotaro/Sukeroku and the Yakumo legacy, Konatsu and Higuchi, but I’ve learnt from the SGRS discord that Kikuhiko really is the glue of this work and this fandom. Don’t let him die or else we’ll all have a real funeral service for him…(well, maybe not that extreme, but people will be in real mourning due to a fictional character…and that’s bad.)

(Classicaloid 14)

I’ve seen from all the “best of 2016 anime” posts that Classicaloid’s gotten on to a lot of critical reviewers’ lists, but looking at my top 10, it didn’t make it. (If you’re wondering, it’s currently in spot 12 and since it’s a 2016 list, it won’t move up from there.) As for 2017, it’s currently in 4th place, but it’s likely to get debunked by later anime (Inuyashiki for one, since I’ve heard about it…if I hear about its source material while it’s still a manga, then its anime has a lot of promise!).

Beethes? On love? That’s new.

A capriccio is “following one’s fancy” according to Google-sensei, while I already knew poco a poco to be “little by little”.

Not all those foods Kanae listed are Russian, right? Pirozhki I know is Russian via YoI, but stroganoff clearly is not. To confirm my suspicions, I asked Google-sensei about gazpacho and that’s Spanish.

Gorbacho…? I might need to check that one over, but Sensei has nothing on it.

Those gyoza buddies have already appeared twice in this ep (excluding the OP) and both were in Kanae’s vicinity.

The foods listed are just local specialties of the area. Okonomiyaki is quite known as an Osakan one, that’s why.

They teach kids how to make vodka in this show…that’s slightly horrifying…Please don’t try making vodka at home, kids.

The birds…are so adorable! Ahh!

“Madol” appears to be a squashing together of “mad idol”.

This is actually very enlightening. At least from Bada’s perspective.

It’s not even the usual credits. It looks like karaoke…and that’s the entire point. There’s even lyrics!

(Masamune-kun 2)

The problem with Kirito-face (Masamune) is that he keeps going over his problems day by day, as if he can’t live without focussing on his revenge. Unfortunately, that’s the point of the show. I know it can do better than that! Plus, Heike Monogatari.

BL sandwich?

Okay, I’m definitely out of here. Ew. Fanservice without any particular reasoning is the worst.

(…but why did I leave the video long enough to find out that Makabe doesn’t even look adorable when stuttering? Yet another reason to leave.)

(Osomatsu-san ep 16)

The one episode I really liked (aside from the feels-getters), aka The Mad Max Parody…I think.

Manekineko behind the interview.

Apparently, Matsuno Matsunan can be read as “Matsuno Makkusu”, but the subs never explained that now, did they?

LOL, Iyami’s too visual kei in this.

Matsu in that case meaning “end”, but…you know…Matsu of the century…

The innuendo…it’s slghtly grating the second time ‘round, but it made me laugh the first time.

Welp, from that one segment, you basically learn how to make a successful non-Gintama…well, success…in Japan.

Highly relatable, but painful due to it being relatable.

Why is the Karamatsu!Ichimatsu not a meme like the Todomatsu face?

Matsu-cest…squick. Why do people ship that?

Technically, only fans of Karamatsu are Karamatsu girls…or boys.

Why is this second face not as memeful as the first?

With a series like this, you really have to be careful that it’s funny every time…because it’s only one third as funny the second time around, at least for this episode.

#simulcast commentary #showa genroku rakugo shinjuu #classicaloid #osomatsu-san #showa genroku rakugo shinju #Chesarka watches SGRS #Chesarka watches Classicaloid #Chesarka watches Osomatsu-san

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