imjustaf444keriguess

[imjustaf444keriguess]

quick question, do you think "the future is female" meant everyone should be a woman? do you understand that "the future is female" meant that the future accepts and cares for female people / women? so why does "the future is plural" suddenly mean everyone should be plural? it's a call for acceptance.

also plurality is very much known to be not exclusively trauma-based in the medical community. yes, DID is very often trauma based, but plurality is related to the perspective of yourself and selves, which can fall under a few different categories (according to an email from dr colin ross)

DID and [OSDD] as defined by [the] DSM-5 - which require distress and dysfunction. Neither of these require trauma by DSM-5 rules but there virtually always is trauma.

2. Other DSM-5 dissociative disorders.

3. People with parts and trauma but no distress or dysfunction.

4. People with parts but no trauma, and no distress or dysfunction.

you might not like her, but sophieinwonderland has quite a few good sources about this, and many others online have backed up the claim of "yeah people's senses of self and selves are weird and you can have different self states / parts / people in your brain in a similar way to DID, even if it's not the exact same"

to assume that "the future is plural" means "we want more children to be abused" is fucked up. it means "we want people, regardless of if they were traumatized or not, to be accepted as they are, even if they have multiple 'selves'." this means people not being afraid of stigma regarding plurality and DID/OSDD and systemhood. it means people being themselves and being accepted and treated like people.

(also, the TOSD doesn't contradict non-traumagenic plurality, you can read about that in some of sophies sources. or google it. im not your parent.)

Genuine Question‼️⭐️

what does “endo” mean or refer to???

Hi! Okay I'm so sorry you've had to learn about endogenic systems and not what endo should stand for imo (endometriosis).

An endogenic system by definition is: A system formed with out trauma. Which just isn't possible given that DID is a trauma based disorder.

The fact based issues with endogenics

According to the theory of structural disassociation, alters initially form when the system is a child and can't process their trauma and it 'overflows' thus meaning that their personality can't become a cohesive 'singular' one.

I won't be able to explain it all here because in sleepy, but this is a good video which uses a very helpful analogy of water and cups to explain trauma thresholds in kids (and adults).

The community based issues with endogenics

They try and insert themselves in the system community a lot, even if they don't have any trauma at all. I've seen endos push for 'the future is plural' (which just means more kids would be abused and harmed). I've seen systems harassed, suicide baited, all because they don't believe in medical facts.

I'm not saying that every endo is 'bad' or does this but I've seen it happen so many times.

I realise I haven't explained this too well, but we are sleepy and I'm not the smartest alter ever, I hope this makes sense though!

#this is me speaking as a traumagenic system trying to educate people (so not an endo but u can call me whatever) #bc some of yall in the syscourse tag. #altho it would be funny to see peoples reaction to 'the future is female' to be “NOOO THEY'RE GONNA TURN THE MEN INTO WOMEN!!” #probably has happened actually. i shouldnt jinx it but oh well. #should i be giving my energy on this? probably not. but just one source saying “did is traumagenic” and explaining how trauma works doesnt. #give enough context to what plurality is. #also it's hilarious how dramatic people are over the future is plural #altho i see my plurality as a sign that i've survived through fucked up shit. i got out of there with a support system. #the future for me is plural because that's what gave me a future in my situation. if i did not have my system i would have died. so. #actually quick edit before im blocked from the op: the other reason why im reblogging is bc im excited about the email and its contents #like those are good categories for plural experiences imo #altho its not as good as some categories for ways DID can present. like the set from kluft or w/e his name is i forgot #i need to find it again. but regardless #more direct confirmation from professionals!

[imjustaf444keriguess]

not an endo but im a pro endo. heres why:

people experience things. plurality is an experience known to be caused by different things (mostly from trauma, but can be spirituality based or even just... normal experiences). i prefer not to dictate what someone else can and can't experience.

i wish anti endos would understand that your plural/system experience isnt as unique as u think it is. also the "proof" that DID is caused by trauma doesn't count as proof that plurality itself is solely related to trauma, so find better proof if you want to prove me / other (pro) endos wrong

Seeing endos saying that us anti endos are not understanding what they are trying to say. So please do talk to me about it. I’m willing to listen.

What are endos? Why are you endo? Mixed Origin? Etc? What is it that you wish anti endos would understand?

I’ll ask more questions depending on the answers above but this is just out curiosity. I won’t harass you or anything. Just asking questions and having a civil conversation. (I block people on sight if you start name calling, harass others and etc that’s not cool)

#i should not be syscoursing i have things i need to do. but idc

[imjustaf444keriguess]

how is bigotry an opinion. how is being factually wrong about people existing an "opinion"

bigotry is not an opinion

I found an anti-endo post saying they don't understand why endogenic systems and anti endos are still fighting because endogenic systems have our spaces and anti-endos have theirs, and I feel that take fundamentally misunderstands the real conflict in syscourse.

This isn't about being satisfied with having our own little isolated corners of the internet. It's about being able to be open wherever we are. In the past anti-endos would complain about endogenic systems invading traumagenic spaces. (Which by and large is a lie. Even many pro-endo traumagenic systems are made to feel unwelcome in traumagenic spaces, and purely endogenic systems practically never venture into them) But one thing I've been seeing a lot lately is them being angry at endogenic systems existing in other spaces. Like this post from an anti-endo vent blog...

This is where the real battleground is!

We aren't just fighting to have an isolated corner of the internet. Though we have been fighting for that too with anti-endos constantly invading our spaces to spread hate against us.

But what we're really fighting for is acceptance in every space. And what anti-endos are doing is trying to push us out of those spaces.

And look, I'll admit I'm greedy... I won't be satisfied until we've taken everything. Autism spaces, neurodivergent spaces, queer spaces, fandom spaces, gaming spaces, schools and even churches.

I genuinely don't care if anti-endos have their own spaces that are isolated and shutoff from the rest of the internet where they can talk about how much they hate us in private. Those isolated corners don't matter to me.

What does matter to me is endogenic systems who are queer being have disorders being accepted into spaces of people with those disorder. What matters is queer endogenic systems being accepted into the queer community.

These spaces are OUR spaces, and as long as anti-endos exist in them and try to push us out of them, we will always be in conflict.

#this is what gets ppl friends with terfs fr.

[imjustaf444keriguess]

guess this page just doesnt exist

"transID" constantly giving me a headache atp

no you're not "trans-indigenous" you're a mentally ill white 15 year old, get therapy

you're not "trans plural" or "endo" you ALSO need therapy to help you with your factious disorder

stop being blatantly incorrect on the internet and maybe then people will treat you with respect. until then, you're weird, stop :)

-Val

[imjustaf444keriguess]

actually im baby jesus, get it right

H-hey,,, i-i'm on anon because this is very e-embarassing to ask for... b-but i found this v-very long post basically fakeclaiming a lot of systems online and claiming that being plural is a trend. T-they also said that pluralkit is anti-recovery and a bunch of other stuff. I-i feel destroyed inside and I know i should not care about haters that much, b-but i was wondering if you can respond to the post in some way, by debunking it i-or maybe just saying that it is not valid. I-i understand if you cannot do this and i wouldn't be mad at you, i just thought that i might try. /gen

This is the post: https://www.tumblr.com/nbhdsc4ss/742946435586277376/im-tired-of-this-boom-of-plural-trend?source=share

Yikes! That's such a terrible post!

Alright, let's go over this.

First, just another reminder that if 1.5% of people have DID as is estimated, over a hundred-million people in the world should have the disorder.

Just on this alone, I find fad claims to be nonsense. We aren't actually seeing anywhere near the numbers of people with DID online who should have it. And that's without touching other forms of multiplicity.

This is an incredibly unhealthy outlook.

A system shares their life. The life doesn't belong to any single headmate. Hosts can change over time. And many systems don't really have a true "core." The very concept of the core is largely outdated.

What?

I think this post is killing my neurons! I can feel my brain cells dying as we speak! 🙄

Anyway, just in case anyone was worried this might be true. It's not. I don't know what they're talking about. There's nothing about switching killing neurons anywhere.

As far as I can tell, any association with cerebral palsy is also made up.

Honestly, I could spend eons unpacking the misinformation in this paragraph alone.

I made this blog back in 2021.

The Plural Association was founded in 2020.

"Endogenic system" was coined in 2014.

The Natural Multiples movement dates back to the 90s.

And "system" has been in the vocabular of all these groups since even the beginning.

And while it's not quite a medical term, it does at least originate in medical contexts. The only difference is that the plural community uses it as an identity label for plurals while most academic sources refer to a personality system as something everyone has, with the personality system of multiples being composed of dissociated parts. (Sometimes called "subsystems" in DID literature to denote alters being personality systems within personality systems.)

Words make communication easier.

Calling a headmate an "introject" is easier that referring to them as a headmate based on a source.

Also, blurring and blending generally mean that multiple headmates are, well, blending together. It's hard to know who is fronting because there are multiple headmates who feel like they're mixing, and it makes it confusing.

But another reason for not knowing who is fronting could be a sort of autopilot like in DPDR. Differentiating between these experiences is useful.

Wait... Affection between alters is anti-recovery?

You know, this really puts the earlier lines about non-host alters stealing the life of the host into perspective.

Not only does this draw a picture of an adversarial relationship between alters, but they're treating that adversarial relationship as being good for recovering, and feeling affection for them as a bad thing.

This is possibly the most harmful take I've ever seen.

As for the rest of it, subsystems (as we use the term) are just headmates more closely linked. I've never heard anyone phrase it as an alter having DID. But I guess I can see the parallel. And again, splits and switches don't damage braincells. Having a bigger system isn't going to make the "days of the body count down."

Wait... weren't you just claiming switching literally kills neurons? I mean, I agree that alters can't permanently die (under normal circumstances) but this feels kinda contradictory.

As for having different disorders, this depends a lot on the disorder. By and large, I believe any condition that can be psychogenic can be experienced by some alters and not others.

But what conditions could be psychogenic would probably surprise you. Look at the woman who had some blind alters and some sighted alters.

Polyfragmented systems were traditionally systems with upwards of 100 alters. (And "highly complex" isn't a medical term.)

And again, splitting and switching doesn't kill neurons. Having a bunch of alters isn't going to kill you! Nor will it allow your rights to be stripped and get you forcefully institutionalized against your will so you can be studied like a lab rat!

Why would you just assume the doctors are misdiagnosing you though?

I mean, typically, DID is incorrectly diagnosed as other disorders far more often than you have people be incorrectly diagnosed with DID.

Again, there's this disturbing emphasis on the alters existing for the host and being bad for wanting things of their own, which bring back to mind their assertion that affection between alters is anti-recovery.

And I just... feel really bad for the other alters in this system. This is just so... sad...

If they're not real kids, then what's wrong with them being on the internet?

I mean, yeah, all alters need pronouns. If any identify as a different gender, it's important to have pronouns for them so you know what to refer to them by. Why is this controversial? 🤷‍♀️

And what does the part about alters becoming useless mean?

Talk therapy isn't magic. Yes, it can help to speak to a professional, but I don't understand the view that it's impossible to fuse without seeing a therapist.

Oh, and the line about how "knowing things about another alter is impossible" is nonsense too. Most DID systems don't have total amnesia all the time every time they switch. And many who do experience amnesia can still communicate. They can learn about their alters by asking. And even ones who don't communicate internally can learn to communicate through notes and text!

...

Yeah... this post is just... so... so... SO bad. In every way! Just mountains upon mountains of harmful takes and misinformation!

#'little kiddo' doesnt sound as insulting as you think it does. maye i am a little kiddo. maybe i am just a smol. #why kiddo... why not just kid #'ok kid' hits harder tljNKDSN #or 'ok faker endo' or something idk tjNDSN

[imjustaf444keriguess]

anti endo = not valid!!

checkmate, athiests

H-hey,,, i-i'm on anon because this is very e-embarassing to ask for... b-but i found this v-very long post basically fakeclaiming a lot of systems online and claiming that being plural is a trend. T-they also said that pluralkit is anti-recovery and a bunch of other stuff. I-i feel destroyed inside and I know i should not care about haters that much, b-but i was wondering if you can respond to the post in some way, by debunking it i-or maybe just saying that it is not valid. I-i understand if you cannot do this and i wouldn't be mad at you, i just thought that i might try. /gen

This is the post: https://www.tumblr.com/nbhdsc4ss/742946435586277376/im-tired-of-this-boom-of-plural-trend?source=share

Yikes! That's such a terrible post!

Alright, let's go over this.

First, just another reminder that if 1.5% of people have DID as is estimated, over a hundred-million people in the world should have the disorder.

Just on this alone, I find fad claims to be nonsense. We aren't actually seeing anywhere near the numbers of people with DID online who should have it. And that's without touching other forms of multiplicity.

This is an incredibly unhealthy outlook.

A system shares their life. The life doesn't belong to any single headmate. Hosts can change over time. And many systems don't really have a true "core." The very concept of the core is largely outdated.

What?

I think this post is killing my neurons! I can feel my brain cells dying as we speak! 🙄

Anyway, just in case anyone was worried this might be true. It's not. I don't know what they're talking about. There's nothing about switching killing neurons anywhere.

As far as I can tell, any association with cerebral palsy is also made up.

Honestly, I could spend eons unpacking the misinformation in this paragraph alone.

I made this blog back in 2021.

The Plural Association was founded in 2020.

"Endogenic system" was coined in 2014.

The Natural Multiples movement dates back to the 90s.

And "system" has been in the vocabular of all these groups since even the beginning.

And while it's not quite a medical term, it does at least originate in medical contexts. The only difference is that the plural community uses it as an identity label for plurals while most academic sources refer to a personality system as something everyone has, with the personality system of multiples being composed of dissociated parts. (Sometimes called "subsystems" in DID literature to denote alters being personality systems within personality systems.)

Words make communication easier.

Calling a headmate an "introject" is easier that referring to them as a headmate based on a source.

Also, blurring and blending generally mean that multiple headmates are, well, blending together. It's hard to know who is fronting because there are multiple headmates who feel like they're mixing, and it makes it confusing.

But another reason for not knowing who is fronting could be a sort of autopilot like in DPDR. Differentiating between these experiences is useful.

Wait... Affection between alters is anti-recovery?

You know, this really puts the earlier lines about non-host alters stealing the life of the host into perspective.

Not only does this draw a picture of an adversarial relationship between alters, but they're treating that adversarial relationship as being good for recovering, and feeling affection for them as a bad thing.

This is possibly the most harmful take I've ever seen.

As for the rest of it, subsystems (as we use the term) are just headmates more closely linked. I've never heard anyone phrase it as an alter having DID. But I guess I can see the parallel. And again, splits and switches don't damage braincells. Having a bigger system isn't going to make the "days of the body count down."

Wait... weren't you just claiming switching literally kills neurons? I mean, I agree that alters can't permanently die (under normal circumstances) but this feels kinda contradictory.

As for having different disorders, this depends a lot on the disorder. By and large, I believe any condition that can be psychogenic can be experienced by some alters and not others.

But what conditions could be psychogenic would probably surprise you. Look at the woman who had some blind alters and some sighted alters.

Polyfragmented systems were traditionally systems with upwards of 100 alters. (And "highly complex" isn't a medical term.)

And again, splitting and switching doesn't kill neurons. Having a bunch of alters isn't going to kill you! Nor will it allow your rights to be stripped and get you forcefully institutionalized against your will so you can be studied like a lab rat!

Why would you just assume the doctors are misdiagnosing you though?

I mean, typically, DID is incorrectly diagnosed as other disorders far more often than you have people be incorrectly diagnosed with DID.

Again, there's this disturbing emphasis on the alters existing for the host and being bad for wanting things of their own, which bring back to mind their assertion that affection between alters is anti-recovery.

And I just... feel really bad for the other alters in this system. This is just so... sad...

If they're not real kids, then what's wrong with them being on the internet?

I mean, yeah, all alters need pronouns. If any identify as a different gender, it's important to have pronouns for them so you know what to refer to them by. Why is this controversial? 🤷‍♀️

And what does the part about alters becoming useless mean?

Talk therapy isn't magic. Yes, it can help to speak to a professional, but I don't understand the view that it's impossible to fuse without seeing a therapist.

Oh, and the line about how "knowing things about another alter is impossible" is nonsense too. Most DID systems don't have total amnesia all the time every time they switch. And many who do experience amnesia can still communicate. They can learn about their alters by asking. And even ones who don't communicate internally can learn to communicate through notes and text!

...

Yeah... this post is just... so... so... SO bad. In every way! Just mountains upon mountains of harmful takes and misinformation!

#fr tho link any source ever. like at least one. #at LEAST the syscringe subreddit tries linking sources. they're bad sources but they try tkjNKDSH

[imjustaf444keriguess]

"If you're not the host or the core, you're an alter stealing their life, you shouldn't exist and yet you want to have a life all to yourself." i know you're just a mad little hater but this has so many implications.

it's hilariously edgy and deep in some forms. it ignores the commonly held beliefs by most anti endos, that you are all one person. this implies possession, and personhood, from the alter's pov. if you are a part of a person who's traumatized, then you would be that person, just a dissociated section. there's no life to steal from, you're all one person.

the way you worded it does imply that your alters are separate people, that they are people who are parasites, who are destroying your brain from the inside out. and you seem to truly believe this.

while you are misguided and your neurons are NOT dying (unless you have another condition that's causing it in which case GO TO THE HOSPITAL), it's very funny.

this could be what the movies like SPLIT want to be but they're just using shock for shock sake, and you... you actually believe this.

I'm tired of this boom of plural trend.

Hello, I'm Dante and I'm a DID patient. I won't go into details of myself, because I think it's something really important that we need to talk about it.

DID, OSDD and UDD are a fad and I discussed this with another DID patient. We're not both american or English speakers, so I'll speak from my vision of the issue of plurality in Latin America and other Spanish-speaking spaces. Since content creators like Long Soul System, Empire System, etc. (most with evidence of being fakers) has become popular, the whole issue of neurodivergence, and plurality specifically, has had a massive boom.

DID, and the others, isn't a roleplay or romanticizable topic. As I write this, my head hurts. They're disorders that exist because the brain of a kid can't find another way to survive. You're not a “system” for wanting friends in your head and role-playing as your OC's.

Many want to live a life with a fragmented identity, when it's impossible. If you're not the host or the core, you're an alter stealing their life, you shouldn't exist and yet you want to have a life all to yourself. From experience, it's impossible, you can't have your own life without being the host or the core, because we already have a life made up.

Oh, and yeah, there's an original/core. Structural dissociation theory is just that, A THEORY. There was a first, very basic, identity, which was the one that fragmented. That's the core, the original. Switches and splits kill neurons, dissociative disorders that include alternate identities gradually kill the brain and damege it, in addition to increasing the risk of having a stroke or cerebral palsy in the process. Splitting and fragmentation doesn't happen because you were called a “faker” or because you're hyperfixated on something, it only happens when there's too much stress/panic/anxiety or, directlydirectly, another trauma.

The alters don't “arrive” with an entire created identity, much less with a role, which is the same in all alters: taking care of the body.

Before 2022, NO ONE was a “system” (which isn't even a medical term), but since the boom, everyone is now neurodivergent or plural, it wasn't even known what's was a dissociative disorder. A dissociative disorder with alters is too complex, if diagnosing it's very difficult for a professional, what will a 13 or 14 year old child do?

The terms ‘introject’ and ‘brainmade’ are useless. All alters are created by the brain, whether based on a fictional character (or real person) or not. And ‘singlet’ ... Why do you need a term to talk about someone who wasn't terribly traumatized as a kid? And sometimes it's used as a derogatory term. The term “blurry” is used to speak when you don't know who is fronting. Why do you need a term for something that is common in your supposed disorder? And it's practically obligatory when there are dissociative disorders with alters...

Fictives/factives are a real and big problem. They exist, of course, but many times attachment to the “source” is encouraged (which doesn't exist because its “source” is the brain) in something called “sourcecalls”, they're calls to alters of the same source. That's anti-recovery, in addition to delaying the progress of integration and pigeonholing the alter to just being an ‘introject’ or believing it to be the same as the real character/person.

Sub-systems are stupid. According to, there are two types: when an alter has DID as well and when a group of alters consider themselves family. First, alters consider themselves family, siblings, partners or whatever, it's anti-recovery because affection is generated between alters. The second... do they still believe that each alter has a different brain? If another alter really had DID, a lot of brain activity would be needed and, practically, the days of that body would be counted down. And, there's not enough research or scientific evidence of these sub-systems.

The alters can't have different disorders among themselves (only the behavioral type), they have the same body and brain. A container/retainer alter, is just that, contains the symptoms of certain disorders, that is, they affect them more, but it affects the rest of the alters, either to a greater or lesser extent. Alters can't die, only enter a dormant state. A part of your brain simply can't die, and if it did, it would probably cause some type of mental retardation or cerebral palsy.

HC-DID and polyfragmented DID are terms that they know nothing about. If someone has more than 10 alters, is considered polyfragmented or highly complex medically, without having more than 5000 (or even “infinity”) alters; with that amount of alters, you would be dead or in a psychiatric hospital being investigated.

“I'm medically recognized as a system” ... That doesn't mean you really are one. Factitious disorder exists, medical mistakes and confusions exist. Furthermore, even if you're recognized, the diagnosis process is too long and Things that could supplant the diagnosis must be ruled out.

Plural or trauma validation is just a bunch of shit. Why do you want to be validated for a disorder that disables every aspect of your life? Or for something that's literally a fucking trauma? Fakeclaim is also a problem but.. in a reverse way. If you're diagnosed, why is it annoying that they say you don't have a disorder? I understand that it can be frustrating because you feel like your experience is invalidated, but fragmenting yourself because of that? Impossible. And with self-diagnosed: If you really did extensive research and know that you could have a disorder, why fakeclaim gives you an anxiety attack? Is the same as above.

Simply Plural, Tupperbox and/or Plural Kit are anti-recovery and 0 disability tools. Why? 1: because it encourages the separation and attempt at independence of each alter. 2: because they aren't essential for a patient with DID. It's impossible to register the switches or to all alters, simply because an exact amount can't be affirmed or denied. I wonder if someone with a true dissociative disorder can have such organized SP/PK/TB profiles, full of information about each alter (impossible) and aesthetic. Oh, and they also use PK/TB for each of their 10-second switches so “each alter has its own life” (impossible and anti-recovery). The alters are not there so that everyone has their own life, they're tools of the defense mechanism, they must take care of the host/original, help them return to their normal life (integration therapy), not seek their own life (because it's impossible and risky for the body). “But my therapist told me that PK can help me integrate!!”, well, YOUR THERAPIST. This is only achieved when there's support and monitoring from a professional.

Have you ever met an OSDD-1A or UDD system? I don't, because the way they describe them, don't support their idea of a fantasy system, where everyone is friends. Ah, and OSDD1-A/1-B aren't even clinical terms. There are only OSDD1-B systems because there's no amnesia and great communication between alters, while in OSDD1-A this is not the case.

Alters don't have birthday. Alters have the same age as the brain and body, it doesn't matter if they say they're 4, 38 or 1000 years old. Alters only know the languages that the brain knows, not because you have a Russian alter, they will magically speak Russian. Alters are part of yourself, you don't need to break your vocal cords faking voices or accents. Alters can't be formed after some media gets popular, they get the host and, after two weeks, they go dormant. If you have an Asian alter or one from a closed culture, it doesn't mean that you're one of them too, the same with minority alters and slurs, it just doesn't work like that. Alters simply can't get along with each other, have the same tastes or ways of speaking, is DID a disorder that hides by forming similar identities between them? Yes, but they aren't alteregos or moods so that they're exactly the same as you.

Frontcalls are dangerous and anti-recovery. “Plural security/privacy” and alters are publicly listed on Internet.

Littles aren't real kids, neither physically nor mentally, they just have age regression. Why do they let their littles be frontig on the Internet? Ridiculous and dangerous for them.

All alters, magically, need pronouns, a name a hyperspecific role, picrew, presentation, profile in SP/PK and some lgbtq+ label. Giving alters so much individuality is anti-recovery. Alters can become useless over time, just a reminder.

One of the important features of dissociation is amnesia, so knowing things about another alter is impossible and fake. No trauma? Then you're not a system. Do you have a mixed origin? Still A F*CKIG TRAUMA. Alters can't fusionate or go dormant without psychological help or a lot of mental stress involved. Yes, the disorder is never the same in all patients, but all TikTok systems are a copy and paste of each other.

Non-human alters claim not to understand humans, but they use our colloquial expressions. The persecutors are not bad, yes, but when they do something horrible, they always try to justify them.

Plural responsibility exists, but not all alters should be put in the same bag as the alter responsible, and the most sensible thing is to apologize on behalf of the entire system. Plural pronouns only take away your individuality as a person, but we know that those are very complex topics for kids who are just leaving elementary school.

The “plural” spaces, the “plural” community, are b*llshit. They're anti-recovery spaces, with Pluralpedia as real or veridical resources and children whose entire personality is having DID. In which integration therapy and the original are demonized; where it's about glorifying and romanticizing the disorder. The disorder is not “I identify”, it's a painful reality.

“Syscourse”, “sysmed” aren't real or valid terms. They only exist so that fakers can make excuses for themselves.

I'm sorry if I sounded very annoying or rude at one point, but it bothers me that privileged little children dedicate themselves to falsifying something as painful, physically and mentally, as DID. Thanks for reading me and sorry, again, if some parts of my English are bad or inaccurate.

#as someone with trauma and a system: lmao. cackling. #im not gonna argue with the rest of this i mostly care about the oddly poetic and edgy line u said #it actually made me laugh.

[imjustaf444keriguess]

btw still waiting for the syscourse against "misinfo" to comment on some obvious misinformation and misunderstandings shared by me. like come on

#like yes u debunked my mistake. now get to the good part and not just the part where i confused u with another person whom i now loathe #like xenogenders are fuckin epic and anyone who says otherwise is just. wrong lol #op of the post still doesnt understand how tiktok works tho #its how most social medias work. im on a few myself. i enjoy engaging in content and getting more of that content bc the algorithm gives me #more of it #like i bet theres more flat earthers on tiktok than open 'cringe' systems #but the flat earthers get like 6 likes per vid hopefully

[imjustaf444keriguess]

last response to u bc i remembered the slur thing and i went to find the screenshot and its worse. you're, like, a certified asshole

btw yes u r transphobic and ableist. grow up and get better or be sad and alone because ur a bigot

Intro Post

I feel like every blog has one of these, so here we go.

Hi! My name is Vex (among other names), I use they/them pronouns, and I'm the one running this blog. This blog is created to combat misinformation on Tumblr, mostly regarding DID and other CDDs. Feel free to debate (politely) in comments or reblogs, I'm very open to proper discussion. I will outright say now that I'm anti-endo, and anti-tulpa and all the other terms for that stuff.

#neopronouns and xenogenders are funky and cool #and so are all systems #'feel free to debate politely' feel free to not say slurs next time maybe. anyway #i want ppl to see this

[imjustaf444keriguess]

ok

are u gonna rebuttal anything mentioned? especially your entire misunderstanding on how the tiktok algorithm works. (like... genuinely, you can probably count how many accounts are systems and then compare it to other subcultures. there's probably WAY fewer systems than u think, and way more tiktok accounts than you think)

also note the "There was no "big bang" of abuse cases, only the major romanticization of DID in media during the pandemic." bit. like do you seriously not think that people can realize that they may have a system when they're now spending a lot of time indoors? and getting new traumas, like hearing about wars and death and having family getting sick from covid and stuff?

like... no, there wasn't any big bang of abuse cases inherently, but

1 - DID DOES NOT COME ONLY FROM ABUSE! there are several other kinds of trauma that aren't just you being abused that can cause DID/OSDD and the instability.

2 - if there was a big bang of abuse cases in the pandemic, that would not inherently affect young adult tiktokers. that would, oh idk, affect the kids? that would be developing DID? (while i do think you can have a system without DID, if we leave out those cases, then that means people who would be developing DID due to abuse would not be old enough to have a tiktok yet. so why bring it up, if not to invalidate other forms of trauma?)

i could say more but im too tired and cold to care i have better things to do. think for like a second or two maybe. read things. process them. let your cognitive dissonance be resolved with actual facts and logic

pissgenic changed their URL to syscourser-against-misinfo jsyk.

they posted something about DID being trauma based when (shocking ik /s) that's fact and what people are arguing is that one part of the disorder of DID is not exclusive to DID (aka SYSTEMHOOD).

like, yeah, no shit ofc trauma makes you have worse memory and big amnesia barriers that give you the criteria of DID. if you're a system but dont have trauma then you dont have the disorder.

i want to scream atp

Yeah, even as someone who believes DID can exist without trauma, my own opinion is that it's going to be so rare as to be statistically insignificant.

I do think the biggest stickler there is going to be the amnesia criterion as you say. There just isn't any research into systems, including OSDD systems, who don't meet that criterion.

I want to note a few things myself from that post in addition to your points.

Math Stuff

The percentage here is 1% of the general population. If we assume Tiktok as a perfect representative sample of the general population...

There should be 1.35 million Tiktok users with DID from the United States alone. This isn't including OSDD or Partial DID. Nor other forms of plurality.

Between January and March of 2023, 14 billion videos were uploaded.

This means, statistically, 144 million TikTok videos should have been made by DID systems in that three month period.

Putting this into perspective, the number of Tiktok videos made by people with DID (assuming that 1% of Tiktoks are made by people with DID) would be the equivalent to the entire population of Russia. In that three month period

"AFABs"

I don't understand why they pointed out this demographic when that's the demo most likely to have DID.

Different studies show different ratios, but with women (most of whom are AFAB) always being more likely to develop it.

By the way, Tiktok also leans female!

This means that this variable should increase the percentage of TikTokers with DID compared to the general population.

The Big Bang

I'd argue the only big bang is in awareness. If 1% of people have DID, then I think DID systems might be underrepresented.

If there's an increase in the number of people identifying as having DID, but that's still less than the 1% of the population who have it, then maybe that just means more people with the disorder are becoming aware earlier and more willing to talk about it openly.

And if a disproportionate amount of what you see on your home page is system content, as you suggest, this can easily be attributed to the algorithm.

People not in the system community would probably see little to no DID content.

This is really semantics.

John Locke defines a person as "a thinking intelligent Being, that has reason and reflection, and can consider it self as itself, the same thinking thing in different times and places."

I believe the explanation of alters in the above quotes meet that definition of a person under Lockian philosophy.

I also disagree with the idea that viewing alters as people is harmful. Viewing them as separate people can hypothetically foster both increased communication and empathy. (People tend to be kinder to others than they are to themselves.) This could aid in treating down dissociative barriers with the right mindset.

Current treatment does push parts philosophy, but treatment that leans into using person-philosophy to build empathy between members of the system hasn't yet been tested against it.

Personally, I'd love to see a person-based treatment plan devised, and an experiment conducted to determine which was most effective for the most people. As of this moment, any speculation as to which is healthier is based on opinion.

What?

The paper isn't supporting the sociocognitive model???

The sociocognitive model is the opposite of the trauma model, claiming all DID is created through fantasy! And it's clear from the moment this quote starts off calling it the "so-called" sociocognitive model that the paper isn't supporting it.

What I think they're thinking this is about is so-called "Imitated DID", which I've discussed the numerous flaws of extensively and in great detail:

Both of these are deeply flawed constructs. But DO NOT GET THEM CONFUSED!

They are incredibly different beasts!

The former claims DID isn't caused by trauma, while the latter was invented by psychiatrists to protect themselves from lawsuits from misdiagnosed patients.

#for the love of god #as someone who has dealt with trauma that was both from abusers and from outside circumstances #including health related traumas that have made me paranoid about covid #its so. #bashes my head in #also seeing lots of systems on tiktok proves fuck all #wow theres systems on tiktok who are both in the demographic of tiktok in general and also fall under average DID statistics!!! #obviously they're all faking #so its ok to call them slurs #fun #i need to do better things than deal with people like you lol

[imjustaf444keriguess]

They are not fake-claiming the people in those videos. The speaker says multiple times that he can't know for sure whether or not the people in the tik toks actually have DID and that the tik toks are just being used as examples.

usually examples are of the thing you are referring to. if you show people who are doing something you deem to be something a faker would do, that is inherently fakeclaiming them, no matter how many "but im not saying they're faking, this is just an example"s you give.

also, a lot of the "inaccurate" examples the video gave are just people being tiktok users. sorry a system thought it would be fun to do a silly tiktok challenge, they shouldn't have dared be like other silly tiktokers and should have been a sad system whos constantly traumatized and doesnt act normal or whatever

Most people in online DID/OSDD communities are severely misunderstanding the McLean Hospital video about social media and malingering DID, to the point that I'm convinced most of them haven't even watched the full video.

No, I don't think they should have posted the lecture online with those peoples' tik toks without contacting them first, or at least censoring their usernames. In the talk they acknowledge that harrassment is an issue in online DID communities so I think that was an oversight on their part.

However.

They are not fake-claiming the people in those videos. The speaker says multiple times that he can't know for sure whether or not the people in the tik toks actually have DID and that the tik toks are just being used as examples. Nowhere does he say that they are faking or anything of the sort. He is pointing out instead how sensationalized, dramaticized, and sanitized DID content on various social media platforms is leading to an upkick in people (especially young people) seeking DID diagnoses.

This is a double-edged sword. Information about DID is becoming more available and less stigmatized, wich leads in some cases to more accurate self-diagnosis for people who may not be able to access psychiatric care for one reason or another. This allows those people to find resources, information, community, etc., online which may be the only option they have available. This is a good thing.

On the flip side, you have a truly massive deluge of misinformation and mischaracterizations of dissociative disorders. And unfortunately, the folks who are presenting in the most sensationalized, innacurate ways are the ones who tend to get picked up most by the algorithm because their content generates more interaction.

Regardless of whether or not those individuals are faking (knowingly or not), he is arguing that these popular sensationalized depictions are making it harder for DID/OSDD to be taken seriously in psychiatric communities, which is troubling because dissociative disorders already have a fraught history in the psychiatric world of being seen as merely products of an overactive imagination.

I'm a bitter transsexual and I rankle a bit at the idea that people in a community need to behave a certain way in order to be taken seriously by folks with systemic power. I think the people invested in disbelieving survivors of severe trauma are going to continue regardless of how 'respectable' we seem.

I do however agree that these depictions are contributing to a wider misconception about what these disorders tend to look like irl (not performing or playing things up for social media) and that this is bringing in people who don't have DID/OSDD, but absolutely have other issues that need to be addressed. Folks who are drawn to those labels because it gives them a sense that their pain has meaning, a feeling of being in a community, of being unique and special. Or folks who don't have DID/OSDD but might have some other form of structural dissociation (there's significant symptom overlap, afterall). Remaining in DID/OSDD spaces will not help those people and will in fact, prolong the time it takes for them to get the care that they need.

Something else I find simultaneously funny and frustrating is that the speaker says that people who have malingered/facticious DID tend to be very upset and angry upon being refused a diagnosis, as their sense of belonging and having meaning for their pain was very much tied up in having that diagnostic label. I'm seeing most of the people complaining the loudest about his lecture acting like this to a T. A hit dog will holler, or what have you.

#also the 'a hit dog will holler' thing is like. so weird to say #like what a strange example. to compare the behavior of the man calling people fake to someone who hits dogs #and to use that to also imply that people who are upset are malingering. #like. #imagine if i showed a video of someone demonstrating a system experience you go through #implied it to be faking #said 'actually im not fakeclaiming im just giving examples of what a faker might look like and if you're mad im comparing you to these- #-fakers than you're obviously a malingerer who's trying to get attention' #you would be furious too #i hope my reblog is the only non-like interaction you get because wow #like. the only reason why im replying is bc im tired and angry but i don't really deserve this. i should be doing something better #idk #think about things more #also i did watch the whole video and it was awful #it was fakeclaiming. point blank period

[imjustaf444keriguess]

I think this is kinda... a good idea in theory but not really well defined, since endogenic plurality is a catchall term for non-traumagenic labels (which may include neurogenic and spirigenic, for example). plus, you can consider yourself entirely traumagenic and still associate your plurality in relations to psychological or spiritual phenomena (especially with people who have had psychological related trauma or spirituality based trauma)

I know the most common definition of endogenic plurality is "a system formed without trauma", however I really feel there should be a way to define endogenic plurality without mentioning trauma in the definition. By using "without trauma" in the definition, you inherently draw a comparison to traumagenic multiplicity that shouldn't really need to be there. Endogenic plurality is a thing in its own right without needing to rely on the framework of traumagenic multiplicity to define itself.

The current definition defines itself by what it is not; it is not traumagenic. It does not describe what endogenic plurality is, only what it isn't. As a definition, it cannot stand on its own; it relies on the reader already knowing not only what a system is, but what a system formed by trauma is, because the current widespread definition of endogenic plurality is "not that".

As well, not every endogenic plural identifies as a system per se (preferring language such as "collective", for example), so this definition of endogenic plurality feels not only unclear (due to the term system also referring to "system of parts" within a DD context) but also somewhat exclusionary and narrow.

Instead, I propose that endogenic plurality is "the experience of being more than one through psychological or spiritual means".

With that, as well, we can then define traumagenic as "the experience of being more than one due to trauma, generally related to a trauma-based disorder such as DID".

These definitions leave room for various kinds of "more than one", because it does not define exactly what that "more than one" refers to; it could be more than one personality state, it could be more than one person in one body, it could be more than one spirit or soul in one body, it could be more than one identity, so on. This wording is explicitly meant to give space for those who do not fit neatly into either "system" or "non-system" (such as many who identify as "median"), those who do not identify with or use the term "system" when talking about their plurality, and anyone else not mentioned under the current definition.

These definitions are also meant to be loose, not rigid, as to acknowledge and include experiences which blur the lines between the two categories or which are often overlooked (such as traumaendo and endogenic plurals with CDDs).

[imjustaf444keriguess]

well, do you think putting "traumagenic systems DNI" is okay then? if it's not a fakeclaiming thing, but just a "don't want to interact" thing?

I feel like inclusive systems should stop calling them sysmeds for all the obvious reasons, but also because I keep seeing people say "no fakeclaimers"/"no gatekeepers" right under "no endogenic systems" without a hint of self awareness

DISCLAIMER: Posts may or may not reflect accurate information. More info here: https://www.tumblr.com/syscourse-confessions/728819621058232320/disclaimer-treat-posts-here-like-you-would-any

#this might sound bad faith but i want to hear answers #because its wild to say “i don't want to interact with this person due to their experience” #but people repeatedly get mad the few times that people use “traumagen dni” #as if it's that much of a difference

[imjustaf444keriguess]

To protect non CDD systems from ableism and saneism is to advocate for them on the basis that "don't worry, they don't have all those bad things you're worried about, not like the people who do have those bad things". It enforces ableism and saneism.

the user deactivated so i cant get a good reply, but what does this mean? to "protect" any system from ableism/saneism is to go "hey, the mind is a complicated construct, and some systems are created due to trauma while some arent, and all systems are just like you and i- people who deserve love and care, and not to be treated like a monster because some movie told you "people who think they're multiple people are serial killers", because very few of us are (and the ones who are, are just as likely as non-plural people to be killers. because we are the same besides the plurality/systemhood)"

and, you know. deconstructing the idea that everyone is singular and healthy, or multiple and evil and unhealthy (for being multiple)

so you agree, that if pluralphobia is just ableism, then endogenic systems (who don't have a disorder) can still experience ableism, even though they are not disordered? you agree, then, that the perceived disorder of the body affects whether or not a person experiences ableism?

either they experience ableism, and we do not need the word for pluralphobia, or they don't, and we need pluralphobia to describe non-ableism-related-experiences against plural systems.

anti endos, you cannot have it both ways.

DISCLAIMER: Posts may or may not reflect accurate information. More info here: https://www.tumblr.com/syscourse-confessions/728819621058232320/disclaimer-treat-posts-here-like-you-would-any

[imjustaf444keriguess]

i was sending this as an anon but decided not to. ill reply here on this alt blog thing i made

---

imagine thinking the word complex is specific to certain systems. "highly complex" followed by "DID system" would be specific to the few who experience that, but saying your system is complex if it is... is not incorrect???

also "like there's a reason why the created endo plurals we've met had like, 10 headmates total." to be fair, a lot of systems only have like 10-15 headmates. there are many plurals and systems who are endogenic who experience systems into the hundreds to thousands. i've met more systems who have under 50 compared to over that amount, but that doesn't change the fact that there are MANY out there who have headmates into the hundreds.

(gonna be honest, systems with higher member counts may feel similar to our system, where we kinda.... lie about the member count. we say we have like 20 when we have many more. no one is obligated to know how many headmates we have. some people may just need to know the like. 10 that will front and a few more maybe. and if they dont share their member lists (which can lead to them getting fakeclaimed n such so many may hide it or limit it) and only like 10 have spoken to you, you might be underestimating their actual internal experiences. not all systems are big systems pretending to be smaller but like. some Are. i am a headmate in a system that does that.)

also, complexity doesn't just have to do with alter count. it's A LOT MORE than that. especially in programmed systems (which are complex because OF THEIR PROGRAMMING. you can be a highly complex system of like. 16. not as likely but it probably is still fucking possible.)

also the "grammatically "extremely" is of a higher degree than "highly"" claim is really... silly? like, yeah, i do agree in a sense, extremely does feel like a level up especially in this scenario, but that's not grammatically. that's due to preconceptions and the ways the terms are used. grammatically, they are the same range of amounts. to mean "a lot of". you could have just said "and i feel like many are using "extremely" to colloquially mean more complex than highly complex" to make your point, instead of saying it's "grammatical" without no grammatical proof of your point. this is more of a nitpick but it's really silly to be blabbering about language

also headmates can have mixed origins. some systems have alters that re created and some that appeared from trauma and some that just. the brain was like "here u go :D" and some are caused by spiritual beliefs and. it's a lot more complicated. complex, even.

my syscourse take for today is endos stop using medical (and medical community) terms challenge (failed miserably). like I can somehow accept endos using "alter" and "system", they were originally medicalised but now it's murky and whatever anyway. but.

complex/polyfragmented is not for you, it's a DID term. it's not even a OSDD term what makes you think you can use it??? and for the love of god: HIGHLY COMPLEX AND EXTREMELY COMPLEX ARE NOT FOR YOU. subsystem and sidesystem are not for you. not even all polyfrag DID systems can claim HC, it's specific to programmed polyfrag DID.

extremely complex is a bullshit terms anyway but I'm including it here for the sake of arguments. "for systems who were not programmed but have an extremely complex structure". examples of an extremely complex structure from the OP include multiple sidesystems, subsystems within sidesystems, 900+ alters.

sincerely fuck off. you do not get a structure THAT complex without programming. it takes programming from an extremely young age, and that comes from multiple abusers, to even get close to that complexity. it takes severe brainwashing through FUCKING TORTURE or physically altering your brain chemistry with DRUGS. you can't just get something like that naturally, your brain wouldn't just... allow it. like there's a reason why the created endo plurals we've met had like, 10 headmates total. you know HOW FUCKING DIFFICULT would it be to create 900+ alters??? to nest them in subsystems, or worse, to create a whole ass sidesystem just because?

created "complex/polyfragmented" systems piss me off to no end already but just imagine the rage I get to see that fucking "extremely complex" shit used by endos. I'm specifically talking about created systems and not spontaneous systems, but even then I cannot fathom that a system would just... get? an enormous amount of alters, and an extremely complex structure. I'm taking with a few hundred pounds of salt.

not to mention that using extremely complex is a slap in the face to the highly complex label, since it's effectively claiming that an endo with no trauma whatsoever from programming can be more complex than an highly complex system, since you know. grammatically "extremely" is of a higher degree than "highly". I'm just done. I'm so fucking done with the endo community.

mad respect to endos who know where to draw a line with the rest of the community, and I sincerely hope y'all will see that this is taking it a LITTLE too far.

reply however I'm just exhausted

DISCLAIMER: Posts may or may not reflect accurate information. More info here: https://www.tumblr.com/syscourse-confessions/728819621058232320/disclaimer-treat-posts-here-like-you-would-any

#i have FEELINGS. about this. #i am also so so cold nad it is so late at night.

[imjustaf444keriguess]

System Age Roles

[ There are no right or wrong ways to identify with these terms! Names with * next to them are the original names, feel free to use these, but if you prefer something more distant, use the second name! ]

*Alder / AnnualAge :

When an alter ages year by year, however not on the body's birthday. This may present as yearly changes, mental changes, a mix of both, or something adjacent.

*Age-Sticky / Age-Stuck :

Similar to age-slide, however, the alter tends to stay "stuck" at a certain age for a long period of time before getting "unstuck" and shifting to another. There is no definite time one might stay this age, or it may come in patterns.

*Age-Hazy / Age-Fog :

When an alter feels connected with a group of ages instead of a single age. These ages can be vast, or only a small group. At times the age might feel more specific or completely uncertain.

*Age Dissociated / Age Disconnect :

When an alter of a certain age/ages feels disconnected with their age. There may be a reason [ coming out of dormancy to a way older body, going through some trauma, etc ] or it may be sudden with no explanation.

*Age Advancing / Continuous Age :

When an alter ages with the body. They do not have to be the same age as the body, but just gain a year as the body does - typically on the body's birthday.

#before i get blocked #gonna try to reblog this #bc yeah mood

[imjustaf444keriguess]

why are you "stealing" terms. you claiming they have no attachment to endogenics doesn't make them less pro-endo as terms.

Intro Post

Feel free to call us Kyra [She/They | Minor ] , for anonymous sake. We are a system and we are just here to help systems reclaim their systemhood and have fun while at it.

No need to credit me, since these are reclaimed and "stolen"

DNI banner by : @ chaoticgenders

Askbox / Requests : Open

BYI: I do not hate Endogenics. I think many of them are genuine systems who have forgotten their trauma, have been manipulated into believing their trauma isn't enough to be a "proper system", or are endogenic to cope with denial. However, that doesn't stop the harm they do as they spread misinformation about a mental condition, turn away valuable allies, misuse medical terms, and take up resources - primarily therapists.

That being said. I believe there are many malicious people in the Endogenic community and I dont want to associate with them - but unfortunately they can make some good terms and can be good with their words so! I made this blog to reclaim their terms for systems to use without the attachment to Endogenics. DNI:

If youre just here to cause shit or say slurs

Western tulpas [ Unlike endos, I have a serious hatred for these people ]

Rad-Queers or Rad-Inclusive people

NSFW Dedicated blogs [ Feel free to use the terms, Its just that im a minor soo.. ]

Those who start discourse over M-spec lesbians and the like

Don't believe in ramcoa or ramcoa survivors

You believe in "Narc Abuse" or demonized cluster b disorders

+ Basic DNI but we all know that.

#probably will be blocked for this but i dont care #this is the silliest stuff ever #u can use terms from ppl u dont like #u dont need to repost / steal them tho #also you are a Child. consider the idea that brains are not always as we expect and that people can have differing experiences #like non-CDD-based plurality/systemhood #like we dont even know why people are aware / have consciusnesses!! how can we really tell if someone is 'a real system' or not. #we cant #anyway i will be personally finding the original of the age-based terms to source them bc i too agree that they are neat #but i like to support people instead of stealing their terms <3