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miraculouscoccixbite · 1 day

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I'm sitting here wondering if I should still post my fic even if Ivan was confirmed dead apparently...

#ivantill #alnst ivan #alnst till #alnst #alien stage #hmmmmm #i mean i've already worked on it so might as well

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miraculouscoccixbite · 3 days

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So this isn't Till, no? The eyebrow is too black and thick to be Till's. So this is Ivan?

#alien stage #alnst round 6 #alnst #alnst ivan #tw needles

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miraculouscoccixbite · 4 days

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For me, the most heartbreaking aspect of Ivan is that the poor clueless bastard didn't have the tools to express his affection in any way that didn't involve violence or manipulation, or weren't too inscrutable, quiet, or unseen to be picked up by Till.

I definitely interpret Ivan as autistic for several reasons, a big one being their Segyein teacher's notes about him:

It's just. Classic ND behaviour to me.

Not only does expressing emotion and communicating the way other kids do not come naturally to Ivan, but it's not as if he's been given a great example of coping with this from the Segyein.

Ivan managed to mask in a way that made him popular with other students, and got him in the good graces of their captors. He did everything expected of him to survive and thrive in this environment.

Then he meets Till, inscrutable and very different to the other kids, just like Ivan is. Except, Till doesn't mask. He doesn't change or try to endear himself to their captors, and he doesn't bend to anyone, no matter how much he is hurt and punished for it.

This is a new situation for Ivan, and he's never had anything to compare his feelings to. He also can't figure out how to communicate with Till, every interaction, no matter how well meaning, seems to end in failure.

I bring your attention to the cheer up comic, and how, again, autistic this interaction feels:

There could be many reasons why Ivan chose to say what he did, but to me it feels like ND bluntness not being received well. And that's fair! From Till's perspective Ivan is being a jerk for no good reason.

Instead of responding with glee towards Till laying him out (as we see from Ivan when they're a bit older), Ivan justs seems... really confused. Like he didn't expect that statement to upset Till that much, and he didn't expect Till to respond in the way he did. Everything was fine a second ago, what went wrong?

Then, Ivan uses the phrase he learned from Till in an attempt to self sooth. It might have been the first example of comfort after an injury/hurt he had ever seen, given how he defaults to it. And it was from Till trying to cheer up a flower.

This also shows some of Till's blindspots. He has grown up having to be vigilant, because violence and hurt have been a core part of his upbringing. This leads to anything he doesn't immediately, clearly understand as being perceived as a threat or a slight, and so he reacts violently to Ivan's statement.

I'll also draw your attention to this comic where, as far as we know, Ivan is simply stating a true fact in a blunt manner:

In my interpretation, these types of interactions keep adding up, and Ivan is grasping at straws the whole time, trying to be closer to Till and failing every time.

Eventually, the only surefire way to get Till's attention is to piss him off, provoke him, manufacture scenarios to talk to him. I'm not excusing this behaviour, but I understand where Ivan could be coming from, from the perspective of both an emotionally immature/stunted child and/or an ND child.

Despite how much they fight and bicker, at every moment it really mattered, Ivan was there for Till. It was always Ivan coming to free him, to take off his collar or gag, and it was Ivan who led their escape.

Ivan couldn't leave Till behind when he went back for Mizi. Even with the confirmation that Till would choose Mizi over Ivan every time, Ivan couldn't leave him.

The miscommunication goes two ways though. It's insane to think that Till didn't care about Ivan at all. They were close as kids, and I doubt Till ever forgot about the escape he gave up.

We have the graduation messages, where Ivan is able to write something that could be reasonably interpreted as affectionate or fond towards Till.

Meanwhile, Till's message-

If we're being charitable with our interpretations, we can say this was Till's way of saying 'of course I remember you' and attempting to communicate that Ivan HAD left a lasting impact on him.

However, how could any reasonable person be expected to get THAT out of 'you stole my fucking pencil'? Ivan could have taken this one of two ways:

1) Omg he remembers me 🥰

2) he leans into his 'i will never be loved back' bias and thinks that Till really doesn't care about him at all

Who the hell knows what goes through that weird little brain of his. But given how Round 6 went, and what Ivan had to say in the confession comic, he obviously didn't think his impact was significant enough.

Then Alien Stage happens, and in Round 3 Ivan is FINALLY communicating his feelings in a way that is vulnerable and might even have a chance of being understood as love and yearning!

Till is unconscious through it until the very end.

Then in the next round, Mizi goes missing, and Till can't care about anything anymore.

Ivan finds him after the private performance, takes off his gag, and just holds him. Again, Till is unconscious for all of this.

Then, in Round 6, not only is Till distraught from the disappearance of Mizi, but he's given no time to process what the fuck is going on before Ivan is dead at his feet. Till might have finally had a chance to really understand where Ivan was coming from, how he really felt all this time, and Ivan DIES.

And still, Ivan's most transparent act of affection? It's delivered with violence. He's kissing a distraught Till who tries to push him away, and neither of them are happy. He puts his hands around Till's neck, not really hurting him, but it's enough to look convincing for the cameras, and it's enough for Till to go limp and wait for death. Ivan's final loving act is to give Till a soft look with blood pouring out of his mouth, that Till still does not see, and then let go before falling to the ground.

It's just a collection of failures. We see from Ivan that he truly loved Till, made a lot of selfless decisions for his sake, was filled with so much longing and affection, but he just couldn't get it in across in a way that doesn't seem fucking deranged from an outsider's perspective. And when he DID manage to communicate his feelings more clearly, it was to a Till that was unconscious, or too distracted/dense/traumatised to see Ivan's actions as ones of love.

There's no guarantee that Till would have reciprocated even if Ivan had managed to communicate his feelings in a healthier way, but there was at least a CHANCE. At least Ivan could have gotten some closure, even if he was rejected.

Instead Ivan died thinking he was completely unloved by the person who he cared about more than anything else, and his last ditch effort to make Till understand was deeply flawed and uncomfortable.

If these kids had grown up any other way, maybe they could have had a chance. Unfortunately, the world they were in didn't equip them to not hurt eachother in their attempts to grow closer.

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miraculouscoccixbite · 4 days

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So I have a running interpretation of Mizi as having been quite sheltered as a result of her relatively comfortable life as a pet, hence her being a bit delusional in her and Sua's interview before Round 1 and her shock at Sua's death, despite the humans all knowing that the loser dies in Alien Stage.

Now I'm onto the implications that this has for the whole conga line of longing between Ivan, Till, and Mizi:

The fucking tragedy of Till falling in love with the one person who didn't have a reason to escape or intervene.

Mizi had a good life and was never exposed to the same pain and suffering the others had known.

Sua is implied to have had a pretty empty life as a pet, being treated as an object by her owners, and being very emotionally withdrawn as a result. However, she also didn't have the drive to leave, as the one person she cared about seemed so happy here, and Mizi's dreams were all about singing together and fulfilling the wishes of their owners.

Ivan had known suffering before being taken in by his owner, and even though his life was relatively good as a pet, he still knew how precarious that position was, and besides he had to watch Till be horribly mistreated by his owner. He had enough reason to want to get out of there.

But Till loved and wouldn't leave Mizi, THE ONE PERSON WHO WOULD NEVER LEAVE. So he didn't go with Ivan when they had a chance to escape, he stayed. And Ivan stayed too, because he wouldn't leave Till.

And by extension: the tragedy of SUA falling in love with someone who had no reason to leave, and Mizi falling in love with someone who couldn't see past the world they were trapped in.

Following this interpretation, this is one angle to Ivan's judgement of Sua that I'm stuck on.

Ivan TRIED to break Till out so the person he loved wouldn't have to suffer anymore.

Meanwhile, the best Sua could come up with was following the path laid out by their alien owners, and then dying instead of Mizi.

Sua only aimed as high as the best outcome that their society could allow them, while Ivan was willing to deviate entirely. The only thing that stopped him was Till running back to Mizi.

He could be thinking "the person you love would have followed you anywhere, and the best you could do is die? You couldn't imagine a future with both of you alive and happy? You had everything I ever wanted, and you threw it away."

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miraculouscoccixbite · 6 days

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I have written over 1 000 word in one day and I have the feeling it's going to be longer. I'm actually kind of excited. I got no clue where I'm going so I guess I'll see where the story is taking me

Is Ivantill going to be the thing that makes me show my fics? Because I got a motivation I haven't felt since I was a child and the confidence of a god and I don't even know where the fuck I'm going with my writing. Amazing

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miraculouscoccixbite · 6 days

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the kiss scene also reminded me of this

#i keep ugly laughing #this is the best

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miraculouscoccixbite · 6 days

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Is Ivantill going to be the thing that makes me show my fics? Because I got a motivation I haven't felt since I was a child and the confidence of a god and I don't even know where the fuck I'm going with my writing. Amazing

#alien stage #alnst #alnst till #alnst ivan #ivantill #i'm trying to use my post about the eyes to make a fic #till is just having a no good very bad time #and he is angry as he should be

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miraculouscoccixbite · 8 days

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Something something Ivan wants Till to look at him.