#But when you're going on and on about the history of queer cartoons and how each was more influential than the last | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

itsclydebitches · 1 year

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it genuinely surprises me that CRWBY wants to push this idea that the bees have been planned for ten years (idk if you're on twitter but yang's VA responded to someone who said 'wow this was planned for the past two years?' and she said '2? try 10' and an animator said something similar in another thread), because at least if they owned up about how they hadn't actually decided to do anything with the bees officially until fairly late in the game, they wouldn't basically be saying 'yeah we had this planned, we just never bothered to write anything confirming or alleging it for years because reasons'

it's just infuriating bc like you said, the straight relationships are not treated this way. pyrrha's crush on jaune, jaune's crush on weiss, and weiss' crush on neptune in the early volumes are all entirely unambiguous, despite none of them looking at the camera and spelling it out in dialogue. nora and ren's relationship is likewise unambiguous, or at the very least nora's interest in ren (leaving ren's feelings to take longer in the story to really be given form).

and EVEN IF we accept that they didn't want blake and yang to be aware of their own feelings for whatever reason (even if that's shoddily hamfisted in the narrative--they don't have any of the conversations they should have had post volume 6 to work through their feelings, leaving the confession in this limbo where it's simultaneously forced by the narrative and yet also like 'uh, duh? why are they so worried about confessing? what obstacles remain in their path that weren't clearly deemed unimportant by the fact that the story never cared to linger there?') there's zero excuse for the story not choosing to unambiguously confirm their sexualities.

blake could have had a conversation with ilia where she made it clear that she didn't return her feelings because her own lay elsewhere, not because she doesn't like girls (which would go a ways to alleviate some of the uncomfortable framing of ilia being the psychotic lesbian in love with her straight best friend and trying to kill her about it). yang could have had a brief crush on a girl in their beacon days, or talked about past relationships, etc. there's no reason for blake to be the first and only person yang ever shows true interest in, especially since blake has an unambiguous romantic history (with adam and also with sun).

especially since this is a world where, ostensibly, homophobia doesn't exist. (at least according to word of god) it's also not like this was a network television cartoon where they had to worry about BS&P or sneaking things past the censors! there were no censors to worry about! so if this was being planned for an entire decade, why doesn't it show?

I'm not on twitter, but I did see those tweets when they made their way over here. For the record, I personally don't believe it. I hate saying that because I'm not someone who enjoys accusing someone else of lying, but as you've established above, there is nothing in the story to imply that this was a decade long endeavor. I mean that quite literally. Yang eyeing the shirtless guys, Blake's entire romance-coded arc with Sun, the rejection of Ilia, Adam framed as a potential ex, Yang never once showing an interest in other girls, the lack of explanation for why they won't confess (AKA an established, long-term arc about one or both of them discovering their sexuality, coming out, overcoming homophobia, working through another relationship first, etc.)... The Blake/Yang subtext began late post-reunion - which isn't a bad thing! But why in the world would you pretend that it was in the works 5-6 years earlier?

I mean, we know one potential reason why. Right now, there's a lot of uncharitable conversation surrounding how the romance is being used to prop up a struggling show. So if you're hoping to draw in more viewers through your work's queer rep, it helps to present that rep as a celebratory achievement after a decade of work. It makes RT appear to have always been progressive and worthy of your time/money. There never was a fear of queerbaiting because this was planned from the get-go. There are no problems with the romance's writing because we knew this was the end goal from day one. No, no, pay no attention to how our queer employees are treated. Why would you doubt our allyship when we strove for a decade to bring you a queer main couple? Noooo, also please ignore that nothing was stopping us from giving you that in Volume One. Good romance has to be earned, remember.

My tone in the last paragraph heavily implies that I've made up my mind regarding why we'd get this narrative of the bee's development, but the reality is that I just don't know. Obviously. I'm not in the writer's room, I'm not in their heads, I will never be able to provide irrefutable proof either for or against that interpretation. But given how RWBY was written and given what RT has to gain from acting like this was always the end game (which is a lot), I think the most charitable reading (if not necessarily the most likely one) is that RT is subconsciously stretching the definition of "planned." Do I believe that they sat down at the start of Volume One, decided that Blake and Yang would be a couple, and then somehow spectacularly failed to write that story for the better part of a decade? No. Do I think it's possible that, given the nature of fandom, RT immediately picked up on the fact that people instantly shipped Blake and Yang (because they were partners, complimentary, if you've been in fandom for longer than five minutes you know that splitting the RW and the BY is easy picking), maybe joked about them and WhiteRose being a thing, spent a couple of years writing safe het romances while testing the waters, realized after 6-ish years that providing serious queer rep would prove more helpful than harmful to the show, stayed in the ambiguous 'Are they friends or something more?' stage to further cover their bases, and then at a time when the company was at its most vulnerable, give the fans exactly what they wanted, capitalizing on the gratitude by thinking back to those initial days of joke-y what-ifs and going, "Yeah! This has been in the works since the very start! That'll help get us renewed, right? ;)"?

...Yeah.

Honestly, a part of me doesn't care. Queer rep is queer rep, regardless of how it came about, and a few years from now the drama of it all will have begun to fad. From here on out, newcomers to RWBY will never have to deal with that potential queerbaiting. They'll start and end the show knowing that the rep exists and, likely, won't give a damn how it came about. But for those who do want to unpack that motivation, I'm personally of the belief that RT is stretching (at best) the definition of "planning" in an effort to make the company look as good as possible during this time. People are welcome to call me pessimistic and overly critical if they'd like, but I think it's important to keep in mind that RT is a company. They're not a bunch of home-bound fans writing simply for the joy of it. They're also not an individual, safely established author who can push the boundaries of their craft without fear of (much) repercussion. They're a company. Their job is to make money and though that doesn't preclude them from creating amazing art and taking great pride in their work, at the end of the day 99% of the writing decisions are based around what will bring in more viewers. I'd caution anyone to think critically about a saluting emoji and a very simplistic summary of - what we know having lived through it - was a very complicated situation.

#rwde #rwby #mymetas

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ineffably-human · 8 months

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No show has displayed a queer couple like this before! It's going to make history!

No, the shows where there are clearly queer characters in queer relationships don't matter. They're side characters and don't count in this history-making situation.

Or they're all teenagers in a sanitized version of queerness made for straight people. I mean, what the hell is the point if no one is a cryptid or a murderer? You may as well be showing me a Hallmark card.

No, that one with the queer adults doesn't count.

No, that one doesn't either-

Look, those shows are about being gay, whatever that means. Because the majority of the characters are in queer relationships and sometimes have coming out scenes. So I'm afraid they don't make history, they're just sort of expected.

- No, that show wasn't about being gay, it was about pirates. Look, you're not listening.

Okay, the point is the suspense, right? It's about how we don't actually know if the characters are in love, because they might be in a uniquely intense relationship. But the ambiguity of what we're seeing may be prelude to some form of kiss and explicit love confession, the only kind of queerness that matters. (Remember, Schrodinger's Redditor, none of it counts if some straight guy who doesn't care can deny it.) Or the people creating this might be cowards who are tricking us.

What the hell is a Princess Bubblegum? Or a - no, women aren't part of this and cartoons definitely aren't. You're still not listening.

Okay, let's try this again - these specific middle-aged men, with a dynamic I like, may say 'I love you' and kiss, which is the only way to be queer content that isn't a lie.

When they do that, it'll be groundbreaking and important, because characters being gay is only groundbreaking and important if it's older men and a little bit of a tease. And if anything else happens, they deceived us for our queer viewership, which was definitely a cornerstone of their marketing strategy.

And nothing else has any worth or value. Have I cleared this up for you now?

Wait, where are you going?

#i am once again begging everyone to stop living 10 years in the past #and just admit you like a certain kind of dynamic #for fucking fuck's sake

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