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yenvengerberg · 1 year

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Not to mention that this info is coming months after his departure, during the blood origin pr which doesn't go well, when fans are against the writers bc we all saw s2, plus he and millie where basically the face of the promo for enola, plus the love scene he cut was with triss after geralt thought he lost yen forever, people wanted to see that? A love scene with triss when the love between geralt yen wasn't even established thanks to Lauren cutting their scenes and backstory. And the love scene with Anya it was before yen's betrayal. He didn't denied a love scene with her, they both wanted a romantic and not an animalistic, sex scene (isn't what anti yenralt said during s1, that their bond is pure sex and not love?) and imagine if we had a love scene and then she went on with the betrayal according to Lauren's script, how much more hate yen would get, "she lead on geralt for her purposes" , "she used him" etc. And what scenes he rewrote? Roach's death or he added a campfire scene with ciri at the first episode. Wow what bad decisions! Tell me one guest star or ex producer who isn't on Lauren's payroll that said anything bad for him. In fact the actress who played his mother in s1, in an interview about Valhalla in an unrelated question he said cavill is an example of how a list actors should behave on set. He gave her space, he asked her if she felt OK with her lines or wanted anytbi g changed etc. But there are many ex worker of Lauren's who say how egomaniac is and doesn't listen to anyone. And in the end no matter what info are coming now, blood origin will be released soon and then s4 of the Witcher and we'll know.

i get that changes to the script must be awkward for the writers, but they were good changes. i'd go as far as to say they were changes that made s2 bearable. i can't imagine if they had gone ahead with geralt/triss sleeping together, and then yenralt together when she knows she's about to betray him. or if they'd made a joke over roach's death. and i really do understand how someone behind the scenes would go 'this makes life harder for us' but also, it's making a better show. we don't know what's happened with s3, and if henry fought for more changes there, but as a fan looking at s2 i damn well trust his judgement more than i do the writers at this point. labelling him as a misogynist because he didn't trust lauren's vision is one huge leap. also lauren very recently said they left things amicably, which would not be the case if he was truly being rude to her on set as the rumors suggest.

according to this rumour, his behaviour shifted in s2, so s1 he would have behaved correctly. which can happen, we've seen it happen before with tv stars where they behave well because they feel they're on a probation period and then act up when they know the show is a hit. but honestly it just sounds more like henry felt more comfortable to put his foot down about things he was uncomfortable with? especially the shirtless scenes thing, that man had to dehydrate himself for days before filming the shirtless scenes in season 1, i can understand why he wouldn't want to do that again. being uncomfortable with shirtless scenes and sex scenes is something the writers should be taking on board for all actors, especially when they're not necessary to the story and are just being added in so the show can get some gratuitous nudity for viewers.

i can see some things within the rumours being true, but a lot of it reads like an overexaggerated account of one side of the argument. like if you had been ranting to a friend about the things that had pissed you off, and that friend had then given a statement about it. there might well be grains of truth within it, but a lot of it reeks of exaggerated bias. i do genuinely think there was a disagreement between him and the writing team that left to him leaving, but netflix 'firing' him seems like a stretch, it seems more like they both decided that the best thing to do was for him to leave the role.

#Anonymous #the witcher for ts

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multimetaverse · 3 years

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HSMTMTS 2x12 Review

Second Chances was a lacklustre finale for an uneven season. Let’s dig in!

Earlier this week I re-watched S1 in preparation for the S2 finale and the contrast between the two seasons is jarring. In almost every way S2 has been worse and after seeing this finale I’m less optimistic that Tim will be able to fix the long list of things that have gone wrong. Tim has said in some of his interviews today that pretty much all of S2 was written before the pandemic and that they didn’t have to do as much re-writing as people might think due to the stringent safety measures Disney put in place. Of course, that removes an excuse for the bad writing we’ve seen so much of this season as according to Tim what we saw of S2 is largely what he envisioned minus big crowds and background dancers.

Across his many interviews today, the one consistent point is that Tim does not have any real plans for future seasons; things like Ricky’s endgame he hasn’t decided on and he can’t even guarantee the summer season the finale sets up due to the weather in Salt Lake. I do think a S3 is an almost certainty given the show’s popularity but I’ll take Tim at his word that he truly doesn’t know if they’ll be renewed since it seems to be a new Disney tradition to wait until seasons are done airing before making a renewal decision (the same thing happened for the popular and well received Mighty Ducks: Game Changers which got a silent renewal only after all of S1 aired). That being said as poor of a season finale as Second Chances is it is also a terrible potential series finale. In large part it goes back to his lack of planning, he wants to keep all options open but in doing so Tim is crippling the show’s ability to deliver any pay offs or tie up loose ends.

The one mostly well done plot line this season was Portwell which got a happy ending tonight as they canoned. The only good thing about the big brother angst was that it was so insane that it had to be addressed and sure enough it was and Gina got her first kiss with a guy she really liked. If Tim is to be believed the reason we didn’t get an on screen Portwell kiss was not because of their age difference or covid concerns but because he felt that everyone’s first kiss was different so he wanted it off screen so viewers could fill in the blanks themselves. Tim’s line of reasoning is profoundly stupid. Imagine if they had Jamie show up and he and Gina talked off screen and Tim tried to claim that because everyone has a different relationship with their own siblings that he wanted the audience to fill in the blanks as to how their conversation went!

Still we saw great character development on Gina and EJ’s part as both really grew from the people they were in S1. As Tim noted, EJ bringing Gina back in 1x10 was kind of the set up for this story line. The only thing missing was a brief Portwell scene sometime in eps 2x01-2x04 to set them up. The consistent development they got from 2x05-2x12 is unlike any other ship on the show; only Rini exceeds their development.

Unfortunately I don’t think that will last in S3 because Tim will always favour Ricky over EJ and if he wants to do Rina he’ll dispose of Portwell before doing so. I was surprised that they never bothered to have Ricky and Gina have a conversation about Gina’s S1 confession. It was a huge mistake to have Gina pine over Ricky for half the season and it was no surprise that Gina’s story line got instantly better once she stopped interacting with Ricky. Tim has made clear in interviews that he’s still interested in the possibility of Rina which makes his poor writing of them even more bizarre. What conclusions are the audience supposed to draw from the Rina story line this season? That Ricky never cared that much about Gina? That it’s totally fine for the show if they don’t interact for 6 eps in a row? That Gina has moved on? I’ve said before that a wiser man than Tim would recognize that doing both Portwell and Rina will do tremendous damage to the show and he should pick one and not do the other. Of course he’s not that smart but it is wild how he’s accidentally written their story line to make for a perfect end to Rina.

Second Chances was great and is the only part of the finale that would have been well suited to being part of a potential series finale.

The Rini closure was a sad inverse of their S1 opening night confession. They’ve fallen so far from being the it couple of the series and I fear Tim doesn’t actually know what to do with them now. He really needs to decide if he’s tearing down that treehouse for real.

The less said about the Valentine’s chocolates the better but at least Gina and Nini are cool again and Nini can explore her budding music career with Jamie’s help. Tim repeatedly said in interviews that the scripts about Nini’s music career were all written before Driver’s License came out and I think he understands that the audience is just going to see the show as copying from Olivia’s life.

The wildcats just deciding to drop out of the Menkies was a lame cop out. Tim has said he always meant for that to happen though they were originally going to compete at the Menkies then drop out (presumably that’s where we would have heard Lily singing Home). Somebody should have mentioned the $50 000 prize money which the East High theatre department could surely use after Miss Jenn and Mr. Mazzara burned it down (remember that story line that had no consequences?). And that NYU scholarship could have been life changing for one of them and yet no one even brought it up once this season.

I did like the twist that it was EJ and his dad who got Mazzara into Caltech. He’d be a fool not to take it but I’m glad he confessed to Miss Jenn. She’s had a really rough season and I hope she redeems herself in S3.

Howie was acting so weird tonight and last ep that I have a hard time believing he was really so awed by Kourtney’s talent rather than feeling guilty for helping to steal the harness. The harness is another useless plot device; there are no consequences for Lily stealing it, she’s not caught, East High pulls off another version of the transformation off screen, and then East High withdraws from the Menkies anyways. Doubtless the harness will eventually come up to serve Rily angst.

At least Lily was straightforward, I’ll give her that. She has such an odd way of speaking, almost child like. As awful as it is there is potential for a forbidden/secret romance story line with Rily. It really does not speak well to Ricky’s character that he’s so easily fallen for Lily’s act when he has no reason to trust her and she never apologized for making fun of Big Red during the auditions or making Ashlyn feel insecure during the dance off.

The one way in which S2 was drastically better to S1 was in regards to the Seblos story line. Clearly Joe being bumped up to regular made a big difference. We got the first same-sex kiss between two boys and the first love song sung by one boy to another in Disney history and that is a legacy to be proud of. Of course, there was still some Disney censorship such as Carlos and Seblos being unable to use the word gay in the same ep that focused on Carlos singing In a Heartbeat to Seb.

S1 of HSMTMTS had a clear direction, the wildcats would have to try and come together to stage High School Musical and Ricky and Nini would have to decide if they still had a future together while Gina and EJ had to work on being better versions of themselves. It was simple sure but it worked very well. There was a lot of heart but also a lot of humor and the show never took itself too seriously. What has S2 had? Beauty and the Beast was hardly the main focus of the cast or the writers and the central couple that S1 was built around is now broken up either for a long time or for good. There was a lot less of the meta moments that jokes that made S1 such a hit, for far too many eps this season the show took itself way too seriously. Hell even the lighting this season was darker than in S1.

Olivia Rodrigo’s team had complained in a recent article that Olivia wouldn’t be able to potentially tour until fall 2022 due to her contractual commitments which is a sign that they think a S3 is very likely though I wonder how late S3 filming would have to start to keep her occupied until late 2022. There’s no confirmation of this but I thought it might be worth keeping an eye on; a post on r/hsmtmts by someone who claims to have a source working on production says that the plan is for S3 to be a summer theatre camp possibly with Camp Rock renditions and the plan for S4 is to jump 6 months ahead to the final semester of senior year and end with Ricky, Nini, Big Red, and Kourtney graduating from East High. They also say that part of the delay in the S3 announcement is a conflict between Tim and Disney executives. Tim wants to move production to LA and film on sets as it’s easier and cheaper while the Disney execs still want some on location shooting in Salt Lake. Again this is all unconfirmed but if it pans out it will represent a major shift in the series.

Regardless if Tim wants the show to remain successful he needs start planning out what he wants to happen. He should not assume he’s getting more than 4 seasons. If the series gets a S3 but then is suddenly cancelled then how would he want all the main story lines to wrap up? And if they make it to S4 where does he see it ending? The graduation of the current juniors is a logical series ending point but if Tim wants to do something different he needs to start thinking of that now. I can’t say I’m excited anymore for S3 but I do really hope that Tim and his writers can turn things around and that will only happen if they recognize what they did wrong and learn from their mistakes.

Until next season Wildcats

#HSMTMTS #Portwell #Rini #Gina Porter #EJ Caswell #Ricky Bowen #Nini Salazar-Roberts #Kourtney Greene #lily #HSMTMTS Reviews

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leguin · 4 years

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on the magicians, mental illness, and media criticism

CW for extended discussion of suicide, suicidal ideation, hospitalization, and syfy’s the magicians.

(crossposted to dreamwidth for readability)

recently i’ve had a lot of time on my hands, and so obviously i’ve been thinking about a comment i saw a few months ago on a magicians instagram post. the comment, which was left in response to an ongoing debate about the season 4 finale of the magicians (and liked by executive producer of the show chris fisher), argued that mentally ill people shouldn’t watch shows in which bad things happen to mentally ill characters because they might confuse it with real life and be triggered by it. the implication of this comment was that criticism of the show by mentally ill people is not worth listening and responding to because it’s unreasonable - because we have, in some way, confused the show with real life, and taken to heart the events that happened in it too deeply. furthermore, it implies that the solution to this is for mentally ill people to avoid being a part of the audience of the magicians.

this is an interesting argument to make given that quentin, one of the main characters in the show, is canonically depressed - very seriously so, at points. if we assume that the comment’s argument is correct, the question has to be asked: who is quentin for, and who is meant to relate to him, if not mentally ill viewers? of course, we also have to ask if this argument is correct in the first place. the answer is that it clearly isn’t, but it seemed to me to be worth some consideration - after all, i spent two or three days after watching the season 4 finale deeply depressed and barely functional, and that’s a reaction i’m eager to avoid having ever again.

so, some thoughts on the magicians, portrayals of mental illness and suicide in media, and criticism of those portrayals:

while thinking about this, i’ve realized that an awful lot of the media most important to me (e.g. flowers, the fall, please like me, wolf in white van, the goldfinch) involves bad things happening to mentally ill characters - including said characters trying or even succeeding in killing themselves. one of the assumptions that the comment’s argument makes is that all approaches to depicting mental illness are equal. but i’d be remiss if i didn’t note that none of these books, shows, or movies sent me spiraling into a depressive episode when i first encountered them, and that they all remain dear to me. i have rewatched/read and enjoyed all them several times, and often felt gratified to see my experiences with mental illness and suicidal ideation reflected in them. to me, this proves that there are responsible, non-triggering ways to portray these difficult, horrible, isolating experiences. (which is not to say that my experience with any of this is universal, but the fallout from the magicians‘ handling of suicide has been much more widespread and longlasting than i’ve seen with any other media concerning similar topics).

up until the season 4 finale, i counted the magicians as one of those shows i could watch to feel less alone. i was especially grateful to see a depressed character who has a difficult history with hospitalization and medication, something i strongly relate to. quentin is a character who makes it through almost four seasons of television by the skin of his teeth, without ever Solving The Problem of his depression, because on some levels it’s unsolvable, but learning and growing and loving all the same. i watched all of this, and thought it was good, and right, and important.

and then the season finale happened, and the magicians amply and unexpectedly demonstrated that there are also terrible, irresponsible ways to write about mental illness and suicide. the morning after the s4 finale i wrote:

i think i’m so upset because every part of quentin’s struggle with depression has been deeply resonant with my own experiences, up to and including his death, and that is not how i want to feel about someone who kills himself! i would like to see differences. i would like to see noticeable and appreciable differences!

and i keep thinking about that comment. wondering if along the way i did confuse something fictional with real life, if i made the same mistake quentin makes in relying too heavily on stories that let him down and make him try to be things he’s not.

but then i think, yknow, quentin is meant to be a character you see yourself in. the magicians was a show that purposefully appealed to people like q - people like me. he’s the audience surrogate, the depressed everyman, the person whose relationship with fiction is meant to reflect our own. he’s the guy who starts the show in a mental hospital. who in the world was meant to relate to quentin if not the people who have also sat on the other side of a desk from a doctor and told lies to try and get out of a hospital ward?

and the writers must’ve been aware of that. i say that not out of optimism, which i absolutely don’t have when it comes to this show, but because as late as the episode prior to the finale, they acknowledged that quentin was a character who was representative of a kind of relationship with fiction that is somewhat maladaptive, but also sometimes absolutely vital to survival. quentin says, in episode 4x12,

the idea of fillory is what saved my life. this promise that people like me, people like me, can somehow find an escape.

it should go without saying that you don’t make that kind of character kill himself - or, if you prefer, ‘sacrifice himself in a premeditated act that guaranteed his death, after ensuring he wouldn’t be rescued, and after spending a season with serious ongoing trauma he was unable to process.’ you don’t spin his death into something heroic. and you don’t spend a season afterwards having everyone he cared about talk about how trying to save him would be disrespecting how much his death meant for them, as though his life meant less. as though his life didn’t mean anything to him. it feels really obvious, as i type this, that you shouldn’t do that. and i don’t mean that in a moralizing way - we have studies that suggest portraying suicides like this can lead to a spike in copycat suicides. writers discussing these topics have a very real duty to doing so responsibly, carefully, and preferably in consultation with organizations or people who can provide feedback. to the best of my knowledge, the writers of the magicians did not do this.

i’ve become very aware in the last year that there are right ways and wrong ways to write about these topics. and so i find it hard to buy the argument that i’m still so deeply unhappy about the magicians because i’m someone who can’t be trusted to decide something as simple as what media to engage with. i’m capable of being discerning, and i go out of my way to avoid things i think i can’t handle. the magicians didn’t slip through because i thought it’d be fun to add ‘suicidally depressed’ back onto my resume. it slipped through because it started out telling a story in a way that felt right, and then it took an abrupt, awful turn.

likewise, i find it hard to believe that i should be barred from criticizing the magicians because i was hurt too deeply by it - or that my criticism, my unreasonable, illegitimate criticism, is the reason why the show was canceled. there are people who can reasonably be blamed for how and why the magicians ended, and people who can’t be. something else that should go without saying: the actors and the audience are not in that first category. my recognition that the show’s treatment of quentin’s death is a seriously cautionary tale on a number of levels is not a problem. writing that story in the first place, and continuing to defend it in the face of any and all criticism is.

#the magicians #the magicians critical #suicide cw #fingers crossed that the formatting of this stays put

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