#TPN S2e02

[fullscoreshenanigans]

Is CloverWorks entirely at fault for TPN S2's mangled production?

I see so many people default to blaming CloverWorks for being the sole arbiter of S2's horribly disappointing production (sometimes Shirai is added into the mix too, especially by anime-onlys), but every time I do I'm genuinely asking the question of whether that's true and where they're pulling their information from.

I'm not involved in the animation industry at all so I'm interested in receiving input from people who are more familiar with it, but my understanding is the people in charge of the decision to truncate S2 would be The Promised Neverland Committee listed at the end of the opening credits.

(I could not find a single video of the English dub that aired on [adult swim] for the English credits of S1, so a screencap from the Japanese credits)

TPN Committee is comprised of the following entities: Aniplex (Distributor), Fuji TV (TV Station), Shueisha (Manga Publisher), Cygames Anime Fund, Dentsu (ads)

(Sources 1 | 2 | 3)

kViN from Sakugabooru details what a production company is in this post:

"I personally find it enjoyable to see who is involved in a show, and as you’ve seen there is plenty of information to draw from that. Animation production studios are listed in the credits for each show, so it’s understandable why audiences would imagine they have a ton of influence over a production. It’s even natural to think that the company that is actually manufacturing something would have great input! If you start paying attention to these committees though, you get a clearer picture of the finances of production and how each show is actually made rather than assume that studios that often don’t have much of a say are in charge of everything."

And CloverWorks is the more prominent name, especially for English speakers watching the subbed version of the series.

This is also something that Geoff Thew brings up in the last seven minutes of this video around the 18:50 mark:

"I'd bet good money that the last credits were supposed to roll right after that big stone door slammed shut, and I'd further wager that a combination of fan reactions to and dipping ratings for early episodes is what caused the production committee—who are the ones who actually have final say in this, not Cloverworks or even Shirai—to cut their losses and turn that cliffhanger into a skeleton of a conclusion."

I disagree with him on them making the call to retool the series during the clipshow episode between S2e05 and S2e06 though. It doesn’t seem like they had enough time to do that when a single episode of animation takes on average nine months to complete, even with the ridiculous crunch they seemed to be in. My guess is it was made back in early 2020 after Shirai made everyone involved in production aware the manga was ending that year, with the pandemic potentially factoring in to a degree.

He also mentions this a bit earlier:

"It's just such a slap in face to anyone who ever gave a shit about any version of this story. Including the people telling it, apparently, since neither of the anime's screenwriters nor mangaka/series composer Shirai wanted to take credit for the last two episodes. They probably didn't have much say in how it all went down. That's important to keep in mind before you start yelling at animators or even studios on twitter. I guarantee that every adaption that hurts you personally was ten times harder on the people who actually had to make it. As hackishily slapdash as this finale is, a lot of people probably slept under their desks to get it out the door, if they slept at all."

I always come back to this tiny addition toward the end of S2 episode 2 as an indication that on the creative side of things, in storyboarding and animation at CloverWorks, the care was still there at some level.

It was just squashed down in order to cut and condense 146 chapters into 11 episodes for a production that, as ZersEditor puts here, was "bleeding money."

But CloverWorks is less to type out, so they get the majority of the ire over a tragically butchered production in casual conversation.

#The Promised Neverland #Yakusoku no Neverland #TPN #YnN #約束のネバーランド #約ネバ #Kaiu Shirai #CloverWorks #FSS Chatter #TPN S1 #TPN S2 #TPN S2e02 #Long Post #I'm not trying to portray CW as a saint of a studio because again I'm not involved in the industry so I don't know all the nuances to it #and this production of theirs is the one I'm most familiar with‚ with the other one being S×F for comparison #and like Ruby's pointed out in another post I can believe they're complacent in the lightening of skin tones for characters of color #as part of a larger industry-wide trend which is still shitty and should be critiqued #but I don't think they're the only ones guilty of this #so it kind of deflates me a bit when I see people comment on my posts taking a dig at CW #because it feels like a pithy comment of misdirected ire when the body of people actually at fault #get to continue on with their business of utilizing stories as investments to build up portfolios #instead of any genuine interest in a series' story or artistic merits #so then I kind of zone out even if I agree with the spirit of the sentiment of grieving over a series you care about #like “is it their fault? is it? are we talking about the same thing/on the same page here?” #tbf people are probably making more productive use of their time than I am #after delving into this for a sense of personal closure on how S2 turned out the way it did lol #but if anyone has any further reading on the subject or personal insight and feels like sharing I'd be interested #either in CW's favor or against

[stray-tori]

TPN S02E02 - initial thoughts (anime-only)

^^^ viewing with my friends

__________________________

. More thoughts:

I loved how ep2 used a similar sequence of shots to immediately bring our minds to conny's shipment and further connect us to Emma's association / state of mind.

+ waterdrop of death continues, glad to have it back 

.

. “Humans outside”

I also talked about this in the video, but I find it interesting that we’ve heard two different insights from Krone and Sonju. “Humans on equal footing outside” vs. “there are no humans outside of the farms”. I really emphasized the “equal footing” thing in video, which also still does seems weird to me, and I can come to the following conclusions:

Krone just thinks they’re equals because they’re higher up the hierarchy than she is, but in reality even the top of the farms are oppressed by the demons as well.

for some reason, even after being heavily outnumbered by demons, humans found a way to be close to equal footing --- I mentioned breeding the humans for them in the video, and I still think that could be part of it but I also had a different thought: it’s interesting that it’s 1000 years - sad, my 2000 years theory didn’t hold up - because that implies 1000 years of technological advancement (phones, the camera, electronics are clearly a thing) still happened in the demon “world” (and we’ve never seen demons use them, they seem to be a human thing). The highest up the hierarchy we’ve seen happen to be the scientists. That’s why I think it’s plausible that humans are smarter than demons (cue the fascination and desert of smart people) and they provide technological advancement and food, and in exchange the top of that chain in the humans can “co-exist”. But we haven’t seen a lot of demon society so it’s hard to say if they’re just not as inventive as humans. And even if that WERE the case, I don’t think that’s enough to call it “equal”, it’s still a massive power difference. Though apparantly, SOMEHOW, the struggle used to be equal 1000 years ago, so- like I think “We’ll kill you” is still something that’s likely to be the winning argument even if there was the chance to be on equal grounding again.

But now that I’m thinking about it, even taking the “equal” thing away, it’s still contradicting. Krone specifically talked about the humans delivering goods, which are technically “outside” and still “in the farm (system)” - but they are definitely not on equal standing. So I don’t think she means the other working parts of the forms.

So I just wonder if there are humans who are benefitting from this system in some way for damning others. Hello ominous guy from the OP.

He doesn’t seem too oppressed, going to be honest. 

It’s possible I guess that the demons wanted to make sure that there wouldn’t be an uprising by having humans “on their side” and the higher ups, not concerned for the humans further down the food chain, agreed, thus making it a deal and “equal”. Since they can’t kill every human because they’re their precious food, so it’s a good idea to keep them in check and not have them hate them actively, but I think demons could still stop a human uprising??? It might be unnecessary drama though.

But even then, you can’t really say they keep up a good relationship with the higher up humans to make people further down cooperate, since they are driven by existential angst (become a mom or die). They know humans will cooperate them if you threaten them with death.

So I’m just really confused what makes the higher ups so different.

inb4 it was just Krone’s subjective knowledge and I make a fool of myself but again, ominous guy from the OP seems like he’s really enjoying this (assumingly high) standing he has.

I’M JUST CONFUSED.

I don’t understand politics, clearly.

.

. The Promised Exposition

[someone talking about how it was portrayed boringly]

yeah, I imagined some sort of visual to go along with the exposition bc the music sounded so fairytale / telling ish but then again, the anime never really showed things that were explained; and let the viewer imagine it.

So now I really have no idea if it's like... actual geographical separation (#more walls time) or like,, parallel worlds?? I feel like taking away the visuals kind of leaves more room for interpretations, and imagination but I still agree that it's sad they don't really play with imaginary things. it's kinda grounded in LA techniques in that aspect I feel.

About the reveal itself: I didn’t expect the potential solution to be revealed so soon, and it was different to what I expected. I’m still a little confused on how the demon vs human fighting was so balanced?? did demons use to be more like Sonju and Mujika, because then I can kind of get it I guess? Like humans have a chance then.

Or where they all just dumb dog demons bumping against trees because then I get it too pff-

Either way, as touched upon higher up: The demon world seems to have some classical human inventions. Does that mean that

a) the demon world just happens to have the people in it that made those inventions?

b) someone else invented them and there’s a similar technical progress in the “human world”? 

c) there’s no crossing between the worlds (according to Sonju), so it can’t be that the inventions are from the human world, I think. I wonder if we’ll see it and how different it’ll be from the demon world’s humans inventions.

.

The more I think about it, the more interesting I find this potential solution. It still seems a little too magical, but the setup is already magical and as my friends pointed out, it’s not just a matter of “go over there and be safe”.

Breaking the promise could start the demons being enraged at it and breaking it too, and the hunting could re-start.

Maybe it could be missed or just not noticed if just our group left, but Emma has learned nothing from her compromise in S1 and now plans to take EVERY CHILD, apparantly, probably soon to be replaced with every human. And that’s definitely not going to go down well with the demons.

I wonder if the eventual conclusion will be to save a small group of people, paralleling S1′s conflict. Save everyone vs. saving those you can right now and coming to terms with the sacrifices you made (which technically, hasn’t happened yet. For Emma it’s not like she gave them up, she’s going back for them. But as this story is being setup now, I think it’s highly impossible to take every human/every child). Which has pretty dark implications! You might get out, but the cycle will just start again as long as any humans exist in the demons’ world; the suffering will continue. Escaping already likely endangered the humans in charge of the farms, who likely won’t (or can’t in case of the implants in the moms) escape even if there’s a big scale rescue operation (plus good luck with getting everyone while having all demon forces on your back).

But I feel like that’s a more likely resolution than fighting a rebellion against the demons, which would likely have no end and no satisfying resolution. Obviously I’m not really sure where this story will lead and what will have to be done in order to cross over.

If it breaks the “promise” and figurative “wall” between the worlds, it could be damning all of humanity. So I guess the alternative resolution would be that they stay in the demon world, to not risk that, and do their best living a good life there, and also.... probably coming to terms with not being able to save everyone.

It’s also definitely not as satisfying from a storytelling perspective, but there’s a lot of interesting conflicts and dangers being setup.

.

. Sonju

Yeah it was sweet how he was like careful being like "i can't leave this around the kids", and being like "it's hard to say this" when he had to tell them about the rule to the promise or later when he asked Emma if they should not do the gupna thing this time. Like he's honest and direct but still caring and that's sweeto

.

. Mom Gilda

The scene with Emma and Gilda was amazing, it was so funny, but even then the art actually did look intimidating, which I felt they struggled with in S1 sometimes (Emma holding Ray’s hand telling him to never do it again was just like “pff-”) but this was really well done.

It just heavily parallels Isabella trying to tell Emma to become a Mom so that’s??? an interesting thing, that kind of threw me off for a bit.

But maybe that’s just confirming that Gilda is indeed the mom.

i feel like the art in general improved a bit tbh. Obviously with nature and fantastical elements there’s a lot more to MAKE look pretty but idk, it’s just nice! 

.

All the stuff surrounding this was so sweet too, Jemima is too precious and panicky Ray as she’s crying is just adorable udshdjs. Also Lani and Thoma being like “can’t leave him alone for 2 seconds, keeps trying to die” is a big mood but also RIP Ray.

.

. RIP Ray

Speaking of RIP Ray......

:>

#tpn #tpn s2 #tpn s2e02 #tpn anime #tpn theory #tpn analysis #tpn anime spoilers #tpn s2 spoilers #tori talks #tori has opinions #long post #good job ray

[fullscoreshenanigans]

Sonju on day #5 of parenting already mastering lies of comfort

#The Promised Neverland #Yakusoku no Neverland #TPN #YnN #TPN S1 #TPN S2 #TPN S2e02 #TPN S1e08 #Escape Arc #Promised Forest Arc #Sonju #TPN Emma #YnN Emma #Emma #Sister Krone #Krone #TPN Krone #FSS Shenanigans #myvid #Video

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gonna be so sad the day Netflix US drops TPN but also love how it’s not touching S2 with a ten-foot pole

#heads up for UK Netflix ppl if you haven't cancelled already #FSS Chatter #The Promised Neverland #Yakusoku no Neverland #TPN #YnN #TPN S1 #TPN S2 #not even digging into the change lost in their couch or car for it #i maintain my stance that one should watch the first three episodes #to see the little details CloverWorks added in (specially in S2e02 they are so good and it has the best chapter:episode ratio) #and appreciate Obata's score because he maintains his level of quality with the new tracks #before watching an edited cut of tameowzerzz's cathartic reaction video that cuts out the mention of Yuugo's name and Norman #and then breathing a sigh of relief of ''oh thank goodness the actual introduction to the bunker isn't this stale and disappointing'' #before switching to either the manga fandub #or reading the manga starting at Ch38 or Ch50 depending on how much one cares about the bits they cut from the Promised Forest arc

[fullscoreshenanigans]

It’s been over a year, and like many people I’m still disappointed with how S2 turned out for a multitude of reasons, but the one I’d like to highlight today is this transition toward the end of the second episode:

This was something I missed the first time through, but this little detail just? hits me hard.

Butterflies in the series symbolize the cattle children’s souls, so it could be a more general representation of that idea, but given how we transition from Emma, who was just name-dropping Norman, to Ray, the third member of their trio, I tend to default to it being a representation of Norman and how he’s still guiding them forward, even if he isn’t physically there to help support them on this first leg of their journey outside Grace Field.

Everything about Emma and Sonju’s hunting sequence was beautiful. CloverWorks adapted everything from this portion of Ch049 and then some, adding a parallel to the S1e01 sequence of Norman looking upon Conny’s corpse as the water drop hits the puddle (pointed out long before me by @stray-tori​ here)

and Emma becoming physically ill upon making the connection of what she was doing to what befell her family and countless other cattle children before them.

They’re small details, but it’s these sort of nuances that made S1 so engaging, rewarding, and enjoyable to watch, at least for me. (A different but equally enjoyable experience to reading the escape arc in the manga). It’s just... it was handled so well. You can tell care was put into boarding the scene and bringing it to the screen.

This is one of the things that bums me out the most about S2. That enough of the creative staff cared to do this, but somewhere along the way the TPN committee told them to drastically alter the original plans for this season, so we don’t have nearly as many poignant, reflective shots like this. It wasn’t a vindictive plot against the fans, it was just how things unfolded behind the scenes, and the staff left with the directions given to them by the higher-ups had to make do and cobble together something as best they could.

#The Promised Neverland #Yakusoku no Neverland #TPN #YnN #TPN S2 #TPN Emma #YnN Emma #Emma 63194 #TPN Ray #YnN Ray #Ray 81194 #Emma #Norman #Ray #Sonju #Full Score Trio #Promised Forest Arc #TPN S2e02 #FSS Chatter #feels a bit odd posting this stuff so long after release #despite starting the series the day before the S2 finale dropped somehow avoiding any spoilers besides 'the orphanage is a farm' for years #and then binging S1 in a day and bingereading the manga over the course of the next three #because undoubtedly everything that could be noted has been noted already #but also just my little space to talk about my thoughts and feelings on the series just bc of how endeared i became to it #and to see how the fandom's doing and how people's thoughts have changed about the series if at all #also please ignore the shitty gif quality and [as] watermarks i was just working with what i had on-hand

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#TPN #The Promised Neverland #Yakusoku no Neverland #TPN Chris #TPN Christie #YnN Chris #YnN Christie #TPN S2 #TPN S2e02 #is there any fanart of chris as a villager out there #or someone dressing up their villager as him #because it's been months and I haven't been able to unsee this #he is ready to go ape shitt on ray with the net if he doesn't start developing a better sense of self-preservation #all the kids @ emma & ray: why tF do you keep doing this??? #Promised Forest Arc #Chris #FSS Shenanigans