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winns-stuff · 2 years

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(this is likely going to be suupeer lengthy,so my apologies in advance)Hello,What's up?Hope everything's just fine!Ya know since the new chapter seems to be focusing on demeter presumably(I haven't read it nor am I giving half a quick bother since I don't have the heart to watch her be berated and bashed by overstretched , mutant blue felonious gru)I thought I'd come here and discuss a thing in regards to the fandom and her that's been pushing my buttons for quite some time! From the very beginning of demeter's character introduction , fans would compare demeter to mother gothel and would be associating their characters with one another , and let me tell you something!It bothers the hell out of me,to this very day! Like...Don't get me wrong!I'm not going to pretend demeter hasn't made mistakes in regards to parenting persephone, and one thing she did have in common with gothel, was that she lied to her daughter about her identity(the whole fertility goddess jazz),that along with her keeping persephone sheltered, (though not nearly as much as mother gothel). and that IS something that she should be held accountable for!but...MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN GOD !!!DO YOU KNOW WHAT PERSON YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT MOTHER GOTHEL???you're talking about the woman that's outwardly been neglectful/ dismissive of her biological daughter cassandra, abandoned her,kidnapped another child for the sole purpose of leeching off said child's ability in order to keep herself young and beautiful again,NEVER genuinely felt love and affection towards her and NEVER let her have ANY connections to the outside world ,to the point that she was thrilled to touch grass!(this sounds kind of funny when you look at it through the modern definition of the phrase lol)Demeter always genuinely adored persephone with all her heart and always wanted to have a companion. Furthermore, given how the gods have constantly exploited young women within the comic's canon,it makes sense that she would be a bit more on the paranoid/protective side (not justifiable,but understandable nonetheless) to avoid her only child to be mistreated by a cruel,unjust system . Also, persephone wasn't COMPLETELY STRIPPED OUT OF COMMUNICATION WITH THE OUTSIDE WORLD,I'm tired of fans acting like flower nymphs, hermes and hecate weren't there to keep her company and given that scene where a younger kore is at a party with hera,I'd assume they still kept in touch with olympus to some extent.Overall, though similar in a few ways to gothel,demeter is ultimately a much more complex, sympathetic and loving character than she is.Hell,if demeter should be compared to any maternal figures in mainstream modern animated media , it should be alma from encanto and also ming lee from turning red, all of these women had noble, sympathetic intentions and loved their families dearly , all of them unintentionally ailienized their families and put quite a lot of pressure and expectations on them and also, all of these women had to deal with generational trauma!But nooo! Demeter is a selfish, narcissistic bitch that deserves to be mocked and get her s**t kicked in !

Phew, Sorry this was super long!I'd love to hear your thoughts about it, and if you wanted to respond, take your time for answering it as much as you want !

Goodbye🌸🌺👋🏻👋🏻

hi hi! everything’s pretty good, and I don’t mind long responses! they’re fun to read! but I once again agree with all of your points. I’ve seen dozens of comments get mad at Demeter because they think she’s going to use Persephone as an item, honestly if anyones going to use Persephone as an item it’s going to be Hades. he’s only ever wanted a wife because his brothers had one, which is why he wanted to pressure Minthe into marrying him even though she told him multiple times how she didn’t want to. I feel like Persephone is only supposed to be there to prove something, she’s only there as an accessory so that Hades won’t be alone and he can be more like his brothers, that’s what their relationship is giving. I just don’t understand why people would think that anyways, when has Demeter ever used Persephone as an item? she clearly loves Persephone and wants the best for her, which is why she wanted her to go to Olympus to study. not flirt around with Hades to the point that she basically dropped out of school, like honestly everyone was just fine with that? leaving all of your ambitions and your friends behind just for someone you met a few weeks ago? Demeter was just supposed sit around and let it happen? genuinely if any one of those fans had a daughter and they were in that situation they would’ve never wanted her to be with him. also, i’m glad you brought up the communication thing because Demeter did not completely isolate Persephone from everyone, we know that she had dozens of nymphs for company and other gods (like hermes, hecate, and artemis) as company as well so it’s not like she was locked up in some island with no one, she wanted to branch out and do her own thing which is fine but Demeter has seen first hand just how predatory and exploitive the kings can be. that’s literally the main reason why she didn’t want to be in Olympus like honestly think about it. I’ve been commenting in so many comment sections that are just filled with people taking Hades’ side and saying how she deserved it and good on him and it’s just filling me with so much unbridled rage because these people are not understanding that Hades is the one who deserved it, he treats all of his staff like absolute shit and he’s never once apologized for it. why is everything he does “hot”? that’s so stupid if you really idolize a person so terrible that you’re willing to embarrass yourself on his behalf I think it’s time for you to do some real self reflection and figure out why you enjoy him being an asshole so much. I’m so sick of this whole “guy was asshole till he meets girl, girl changes guy but only asshole to everyone else”, it’s the dumbest and most toxic trope ever. take it from me, as someone who’s friends with a girl whose boyfriend literally insulted and discriminated me and my friends to point that we had to confront them both just for her to tell us that he’s changed and he’s not like that, it will indeed chase people away from you. no one wants to be around a person who’s a jerk only because you’re not the person they’re with, like we learned this in kindergarten use the damn golden rule because in the long run you’re only going to isolate your loved one and keep their friends at bay if you continue to just be an absolute dickhead towards everyone. there’s so many people who project when it comes to Demeter, they say things like Demeter abused Persephone and how she’s just such a terrible character all while stanning literally all the actual problematic characters. stop being delusional and a hypocrite those are two very bad combinations, pick one. and the mother gothel comparison, well you’ve said everything I was going to say and I agree that Demeter is a very sympathetic motherly figure, she’s raised hundreds maybe even thousands of nymphs so everyone saying she isn’t a good mother is absolutely invalid because she’s basically the mother of the land, she provides love shelter and care for everyone even guests (as seen with Hades’ bitch ass when he decided to get wasted in the mortal realm) while they’re in her care.

#lo critical #anti lore olympus #anti lo #lo demeter #lo hades

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sprnklersplashes · 6 years

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Season 7 Characters

I am a good bit of the way through season 7 now, so I thought I’d share my thoughts on the characters. Overall, there’s no character I outwardly dislike (except Gothel but I’m meant to dislike her), but I only really like two characters, Drizella and Robin. As in, these are the only two characters who engage me on an emotional level. Everyone else is just sort of..... there. I am leaving out Rumple, Regina and Zelena because I’m lazy as fuck I have made my opinions known about them already and nothing as really changed. I am also not doing Naveen/Drew or Anastasia because as much as I like them.... they barely qualify for characters.

Anyway, if that didn’t put you of, then let’s-a go!

Drizella Tremaine/Ivy Belfrey- Oh my precious, crazy Drizella, you stole my heart in episode 6 (Wake Up Call) and have kept it. I think the main reason she is so sympathetic is because she has a relatable backstory-I’m sure a good number of people in the audience can relate to the frustration of being the second favourite child and living in the shadow of an older sibling. And Adelaide plays her so amazingly, small upset, dejected looks at her mother’s indifference to her in Hyperion Heights so that you can’t help but be on her side, even when I learn she is evil I still sort of rooted for her to make her mother regret what she did. Even after she drugs Ana, her tearful “I don’t want to die” made my heart ache for her. Wrong decision, completely wrong decision, but I can so, so get where she is coming from with it. I like how her arc centered on family and making amends with her sister. And then her redemption came and sent such a compelling character to hell with “well you ended up not hurting your sister for your own gain so good for you, don’t worry about us,your victims, just go live your life.” Oh Drizzy, I wish I could have given you the redemption you so richly deserved. I also would have liked less focus on Henry, because their relationship felt sort of random. And more exploration of her relationship with Ella.

Robin Hood-Mills/Margot- I’m so happy with how they used Robin. I find her such an interesting blend of the LWM and the Enchanted Forest, like watching her use the word “jerkwad” to a troll hunting mob in the Enchanted Forest. And I find her to be the most realistic character; her struggle with finding herself and her identity, the contrast between the “popular girl” she was in high school which just gave her a superficial happiness, and then finding her true calling as Robin Hood, doing something worthwhile, was so nice to watch. I cheered when she picked up that bow! And same in Hyperion Heights, Margot’s conflict with her mother is something very realistic, they never communicated enough. I also like her sense of humour a lot. And how she stands up for her beliefs and fights for the little guy-or girl, Alice, in her case-like a real Robin Hood. However, I don’t like how most of her main development took place in flashbacks, an issue I have with most characters. And I do find her present day character to be a bit... two dimensional. But hey, I have more episodes to go, so I could be wrong. I’d like to see more of her as a character, but from what I have seen I feel like she mainly exists as Alice’s love interest.

After this I think my reviews/analysis/whatever we’re calling this post are going to be less in-depth because Drizzy and Robin are the only two I really care for.

Rapunzel Tremaine/Victoria Belfrey- Well damn if season 7 did one thing, it was make a sympathetic villain with Victoria. I did find her a bit “knock off Evil Queen” until her backstory was revealed in 7x09. The whole theme of that episode was Punzy’s love for her family and even as a villain she is still doing everything because she loves Ana. My favourite kind of villains always have a sort of code or justification that makes them think they’re in the right. In a way, she reminds me of s1 Rumple, who kept his love for his son, but was still corrupted and evil with it. A moment for her that sticks out a lot is when Gothel has kidnapped and bound her and yet her concern is still for Ana, the first thing she does when she sees her is ask her if she is okay. That right there is some complex characterisation; she’s evil but with a tiny nugget of goodness left inside her. Now her redemption is where she falls down; she starts to realise that she should have focussed more on Drizella and less on the deceased Ana, which was good, and she saved Drizzy at the cost of her own life, but like I said before, Drizella was one out of many victims who never got any closure, most importantly Ella.

Lucy Mills- I do think Lucy is a lot like her father and that’s why I like her so much; her belief, her drive, and her sass. She isn’t really the most complex character there is, btu she’s just so loveable. She sees the best in everyone, even Tremaine (even if I sideeyed that part because come on bb). I don’t know what else to say about her; I can’t really say I love her development because imo, there is not much development to love, but who doesn’t love a funny, heart of gold munchkin running around believing in people all the time?

Tiana/Sabine-Well she’s... a good person. I like her development in becoming “her own knight in shining armour”. But like..... That’s sort of all their is to her. I do like her, she’s cute, her relationship with Naveen is adorable. She’ confident and strong but.... there isn’t a whole load of depth to her. Or maybe there is and I just forgot. I would say “I can’t believe ouat messed up the Princess and the Frog” but... it’s OUAT. She seems to fulfil the role of “supportive best friend” more than she does her own character arc.

Ella Mills/Jacinda-Okay for one thing-Dania does not deserve the hate she gets. She is a fine actress. Leave her alone demons. That said, she’s kind of like Tiana for me. Yeah she’s a good person but there’s not much depth to her. I feel like her lack of a backstory is bad for her because it makes it hard to sympathise with her. Sure we know she had a hard life but we don’t see it. I like her more in HH funnily enough, despite overall preferring the EF flashbacks. Watching her fight for Lucy is pretty cool to watch. The narrative fucks her over a lot, especially when t comes to Tremaine and how she did not once factor into her redemption arc despite being hurt severely by her.

Wish Hook/Detective Rogers- Sigh. Like Ella and Tiana, he’s a good person who deserves a happy ending, but that’s really all there is. He gets a little bit of complexity in 7x13 and 7x16 (I think), which is nice. They did skip over his redemption arc, which works for story purposes, but part of what I loved about Killian was his redemption arc. My favourite moments of his were him showing how much he had changed so WHook doesn’t fit that for me. I sort of see him as fundamentally the original character but less-less flawed, less self loathing, less redemption arc (that’s not grammatically correct but let’s move on). They also seem to have taken away the cheeky and sarcastic humour, which may make him more appealing to some people but I miss it. Objectively he’s pretty unproblematic, which I think in a way makes him boring, but undeserving of all the hate the CS fandom throws his way. He also gets manipulated and used a lot, which does make me feel sympathy for him. His scenes with Alice, young Alice in particular, are cute. And I do like that he stopped drinking. He’s a good man who deserves happiness probably more than anyone else, but kind of a watered down version of OG Killian. Don’t get me wrong, I tried really hard to love him but... I guess it wasn’t meant to be. Who knows, maybe at the end of the day, I did jsut see Killian as a prop for Emma, which is why I feel little attachment to a version that isn’t with her.

Henry Mills Swan- Henry is one of my favourite original show characters, so what drew me to this season was a grown up Henry. I am glad that despite being an adult, we still have that cute nerdy wide eyed dreamer of a kid. He does some things and I just think “that is so freaking Henry” like his fist pumping and Star Wars references and using his lunchbox as a weapon. And a lot of his child personality is still there, still an optimist who believes in people, but I feel like he’s matured a bit now. At the same time, he wants to be like the kind of heroes he read about and grew up with. He wants to give Ella a special ring like his grandparents had. I’ll admit there re bits where I don’t feel that he is Henry, but I think that’s because there is such a big jump between Gilmore!Henry and West!Henry.

Alice Jones/Tilly- I went in expecting Tilly to become my favourite, which is weird now because I am fairly neutral on her. I find it interesting the way she sometimes acts like an overgrown child because I think it is a way of showing how emotionally stunted she is, which is pretty neat. She is definitely very cute and makes an eccentric, bouncy kind of Alice, which is what I do think of when I think “Alice In Wonderland” (although my Alice knowledge is limited to the animated film and the Tim Burton one so I may not be very knowledgeable in that respect). I like her dynamic with Robin a lot. She isn’t really that well developed but she is fun to watch. I also wonder sometimes if her eccentricity and “strangeness” for a lack of better word is just her hiding how upset she is. I don’t really have anything else to say about her.

Gothel-To be honest, Gothel seems fairly one dimensional. There is very little to her. She wants to kill everyone because people killed her family. I feel like the writers have kept trying to make villains “bigger and badder” since s5 and then Gothel was just overkill. She has pretty much 0 redeeming qualities, which is cool, she’s the bad guy, but I don’t know, I think it just comes off as pretty shallow. Maybe a “she was always evil” story a la Cruella de Vil would have worked better? I will give it to them that she is very very creepy sometimes.

Dr Facilier/Samdi-I love how on the one hand, he is so, so like his animated counterpart but with enough uniqueness to stand apart. Daniel plays him so amazingly, his movements are so fluid, he’s charming but there’s a danger to him. He is a slimy little bastard (kinda like a... frog. See what I did there?). He intrigues me but I don’t see much to him. But he does remind me of s1 Rumple with his deals and general tomfoolery. I’ll come back to this section ocne I have watched more of s7, but for now my general perception is that he is fun to watch but I don’t see much below the surface.

#ouat s7 #drizella tremaine #robin mills #rapunzel tremaine #victoria belfrey #lucy mills #tiana ouat #ella mills #wish hook #henry mills #gothel #dr facilier #lotta shit going on here #long post for ts #if you're on mobile

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