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ivalice-tifalucis · 5 years

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Found a forum about Take That, also found some interesting discussion

Now it’s 4AM in the morning, I slept too much for past couple of days because of some flu and the medicine makes me drowzy and moody all the time and sleeping was very tempting. I should’ve finished my essay so I can get this one subject to more than a ‘B’ so I can still retain my dream of going to Netherlands this year. But here I am searching non-important things (or at least maybe it’s important for my curiosity), and tried to google if there’s any existing Take That forum. My standard is high with mygnrforum which is a super active and long term versatile fan forum of Guns N’ Roses, I even manage to find myself some friends there. The whole website is even made and funded by fans, active discussions from all age, nationalities, and genders, and even there was a time when Axl Rose decided to showed up to everyone’s surprise. But hey, obviously GN’R is bazillion times bigger than TT. I just saw their concert of same shit they’ve been singing for 35 years with terrible mickey mouse voice of Axl’s and people still went lit. Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy that I finally see my favorite rock band. It just hanging around with old fans give me sense of cynical for the band.

Anyway...

I went to thread that is talking about Odyssey. You may check it here: http://www.buzzjack.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=209704&st=440

The thread is actually meant for both Robbie and Take That fans. I found nice thread that talked about Reveal and even gave me snippets that I haven’t even seen before since I was too poor to buy Reveal. But what I want to talk about in Odyssey thread is the view of this person who definitely this kind of annoying GB Army you will find a lot around Thatters group or social medias comments sections. Try to start from the link I gave you. Here this person talks about the BBC Documentary.

Tl;dr the cynical side of Thatters and that for this lovey-dovey band, in the eyes of some of their fans they still are one of the most controversial band.

“Saw it There were some tears involved here as well, but of boredom, unfortunately. Absolutely NOTHING new whatsoever and nothing of substance and, on many occasions, it felt like the Robbie and his backing singers documentary. The era starting with 2006 was almost brushed off, because, of course, Robbie wasn't there - most of the moments from this era were the ones with Robbie in it-, we had the neverending Jason eulogy, but nothing to actually celebrate the members that really carry Take That. And I realized another thing that pissed me off - in almost all the recent performances, Robbie had the silver jacket, to make sure he distinguished himself from the others - God forbid someone mistook him for just a member and he didn't take the center of the stage. I guess that, on a very superficial level, the documentary will do its job, it will sell the album, but I see it as nothing more than that - just a promo trick, without real substance. I hope one day we get a documentary that brushes off Robbie's coming and going and the boys' constant "guilt" over it and the Jason "I'm happy to enjoy the money I've made off the back of TT, but without TT" and actually concentrates on what Mark, Gary and Howard have been doing. I know I sound bitter and I'm probably blowing things out of proportion a bit, but, seriously, is it too much to ask, as a fan, to have one episode that doesn't involve Robbie? Gary's documentary with James was so much more fun and deep, at the same time. This looked just like a label-ordered film, with no other purpose than filling some pockets. I was really disappointed. And I didn't understand what was the whole thing of including their mums in this documentary if they gave them 2 minutes and didn't get anything of substance out of them? We got more time with the same old fans that appear everywhere and say nothing interesting. It would have been more interesting to just have 2 fans that actually had some stories to tell; the same for the mums - considering how crazy it got in the 90s, they'd have had a ton of stories to tell - they probably talked amongst themselves, but nobody was smart enough to include the stuff of interest in the documentary. Sorry, just because I'm a fan, I'm not gonna praise everything they do, especially when it's so shallow. Rant over “

I mean a documentary released close with release date of their Greatest Hits album obviously not for commercial purpose related, right? People already complain that it’s going to be only TT3 doing Greatest Hits tour and she wants this documentary only about TT3. I agree though that maybe there should be more Take That mums and less fan stories maybe. But I think she doesn’t understand that ‘We’ve Come a Long Way’ is not like ‘For the Record’ or ‘Look Back Don’t Stare’. The purpose of this documentary is celebrating and look back but with brighter light on their career in the past 30 years. Don’t expect bunch of guys look pissed and depressed in this one.

And when I say she’s definitely GB Army, just read it how she reacts around the other person who is more leaning to Robbie.

“Take That have been a UK (almost) only act since especially after Progress. Boy or Manbands do not sell well in the rest of Europe. It is not down to them only. The music taste is different. Robbie maintained his solo fanbase in Europe different to the UK more than TT. He sells out stadiums still. Progress was the unification all time height. Gary never sold well in Europe. And in the UK in the comments on FB, Newspapers etc (aside of the usual hate comments every public figure gets) you see that his political direction and the tax issue hurt his image. Robbie coming and going makes some people happy, some unhappy as you also realize in the comments even in this thread. But what really took mojo away is Jason leaving. And the miss of huge ballads. However, as long as they sell tours, even if it is for the live moment rather than TT - it is good for them as it pays millions in their wallets. In 10 years there might be a full reunion and then the Progress effect will set in again”

And this GB Army lady thinks Gary has no political direction. Then do tell me why people mocking him as Tory. I don’t understand UK politics. I always roll my eyes when I found random comments like for example at Kit Harington, sometimes he got called Tory too and ffs the dude never say anything about his political views, the reason he got called Tory is probably people mistaken him for being blue blood because he is the nth descendant of an Earl and married to Rose Leslie, whom her uncle is an Earl. But then again, it’s even written on his wikipedia page with article related, Gary did stated he supported David Cameron.

Oh this GB Army lady again...

“To be frank, I understand certain fans liked Jason and miss him, I personally don't. I'm probably one of the few people who don't acknowledge that "intelligence" and "wisdom" the others are talking about - that's probably because I saw really intelligent, academic people in the person of my professors and I know how that truly looks. I guess Jason strived to be intelligent and he probably read a lot, but, imo, he had no real in depth view of anything. I'm not saying, by any means, he was a stupid person, just that he wasn't any more intelligent than the others. I agree with you, though, about his contribution to the band - even if it was only for the moral of the group, he was good for them. But he chose to leave, he wasn't kicked out, so I don't see why the boys have to always go out of their way to acknowledge him - if "fans" attack them for this, then they're idiots. The interviews the boys did in November clearly showed they are annoyed of always being asked about Jason and Robbie - that's why I find this documentary to be more of a "guided" one - they said exactly what people expected them to say, regardless of how they actually feel.“

“As I've said, I agree that both Jason and Robbie's contributions had to be acknowledged, that's indisputable. What I'm saying is that Robbie's presence in the documentary wasn't necessary, given all he's done to the boys. He could have left them have their moment. I truly, truly despised him when he referred to them as "my business brothers". He's clever when it comes to distorting reality without many people noticing it. Maybe the III and Wonderland eras weren't as successful as the previous ones, but, given the context, it's no wonder. They were still successful and it was all down to Gary, Mark and Howard. 30 years of work and did anyone actually acknowledge these eras? Even Odyssey was brushed off. So, I have a problem with the program being called "We've come a long way" while we're only presented the beginning and some of the middle. Oh, and funny how Robbie uploads his new single on yt precisely the day the documentary airs! How convenient! “

There’s also some talking about TT downfall, how they can’t sell as much as they used to. Personally, I wanna know too from this side of the story, long term fan all the way to the 90s. And tbh their problem is also every musicians for all time and all place problem. Even Gary acknowledge this. They’re an old act. And that’s ok. Kinda agree that they made some bad decisions on songs and singles, but to me it’s related to the first problem. I stand with all the 5 lads so I don’t think Robbie came and left and changing the dynamic has something major to do. I agree that they’re lacking huge ballads now, but I still enjoy their newer songs tbh, The Jason one is quite intriguing though.

“I agree about the impact of Jason leaving. He may have been quiet on records but from what I could see he was --Robbie and Gary aside-- the next most popular member since they reformed. (**) I think Jason represented 'the good guy' and humble aspects more naturally than the others and this gained him droves of fans. He is very intelligent, including emotionally intelligent which made him relatable with everyday members of the public. The other four are nice though in my opinion you could tell Jason was truly sincere. Of course he is also the only member not involved in any tax issue and possibly took moral issue on this. I once read he still banks with his local co-op.”

IMO, this part is even interesting

A (dylandog): “I actually feel for Howard. A few months ago he bumped into the 'elusive Jay' on Kensington High Street and they had a brief chat. Apparently that was the first time Jay had see Howard's two children. Howard has also posted some lovely heart felt posts about Jay - who has completely cut the boys out of his life. I genuinely think that Howard is upset by Jay's decision to not only walk away from the band, but also their friendship.”

B (GBA lady): “That's exactly what I'm thinking, dylandog. Howard and Jason seemed to be very good friends during the TT years and Mark, well, he seems to be friends with everyone. I'm not including Gary on this one, although, back in the 90s, they said themselves, it was Gary-Howard-Jay, on one side, and Mark-Robbie, on the other side. I can understand - to a certain extent - Jason's decision to quit the music industry, but I don't get why he had to also quit his friendships. Howard was the one who said, during an interview, that Jason doesn't even reply to their emails anymore.”

A: “Jay was always the one that struggled with the limelight so to some extent it wasn't a surprise that he was the one to jump ship. I also felt that he was, to put it bluntly, rather work shy. I think they probably understand/accept his decision to leave the music industry, but I agree with you, they must be hurt and confused by his actions to cut them out of his life. I know if a friend I'd spent many years with did that to me I'd feel very hurt. It does make me wonder what an earth went on? Was Jay appalled by their involvement in the tax scheme or was it something else? Whilst I understand Jay has his own life and friendship groups to completely erase them from his life is drastic to say the least. “

B: “I don't think it has anything to do with the their tax scheme. I doubt he even knew what the boys did with their share. Jason's finances are managed by his brother, the boys' by someone else. I don't see them sit down and talk: "oh, did your lawyer/accountant make you sign that paper regarding that investment?". I really trust Gary when he says he had no idea what he was signing - if he had any suspicion back then that it would be something that would backfire, he'd have pulled the money out immediately and payed the tax to the State, just like he did when he found out what it was all about. BUT, in the eventuality that Gary and the others lie and they knew they were doing something morally questionable and Jason was aware of this and this is the reason he left the band, then shame on him! He isn't a saint, he's done his fair share of morally questionable things in life - at the end of the day, using fans for sex is way more wrong than making an investment that doesn't break any laws -, so he wasn't in any position to judge. Just like all the others, he did alcohol, he did drugs, he used people for his own pleasure.....he really had no foot to stand on when it came to this. He is enjoying, after all, a life of doing nothing off the back of others, limelight shy or not. I sincerely hope that is not the reason he quit the band. If it were, his mum being in the documentary would look very weird.“

Then another guy came...

C: “I don't understand the talk about Jay like he is a bad guy here when this is probably the main reason why he quit the band, to stop stangers being judgmental on him. What's wrong with him dating young girls or older girls (Catherine Tate wasn't exactly young when they were dating)? He is single and should be allowed to date whoever he wants. And if he decided to quit because of the tax thing then I don't see any problem. People has different values in life that hold dear to their heart. Anyway, all this was just you guys' speculations (not even truth) and you still manage to use it to talk down on him just because he is not your favorite. Jason has never been a fan of technology since when he was in the band so I see no reasons for him to change after he left the band. Being of grid is so Jason that I don't know why everyone would be surprised. I have a lot of old colleagues that I was close to when I was working with them but never bother to keep in touch. I still like them but they are not my priority at the moment. There are so many levels of friendship and Take That is definitely a unique one.”

A: “I'm sorry you see it that way BadHabit. I in no way meant to be dismissive of Jay or suggest that he is a 'bad guy.' If you read my post I do say I miss Jay and for me they were at their best as a four piece. However, it's not unfair of me to point out that he had few leads, which I think is a shame by the way,because he's my second favourite vocalist in the band, or that he had very little input re song writing. The forum is for comments and opinions and unless we're looking at facts such as sales figures, then of course it's merely conjecture. My point was that I didn't fully understand the intellectual label given to Jason. Of course he can 'date' whom is wishes, regardless of their age, I don't think I suggested otherwise, but simply made an observations that he appears to have been photographed with much younger women on a number of occasions and therefore falls into that stereotype of older man/ younger woman. By the way for balance Howard is married to a much younger woman as well.“

B: “In regards to Jason dating younger women - although I couldn't care less about his private life (as long as his private life doesn't affect TT's image/reputation/connections)-, I do believe it's morally wrong for a 40+ old man to be dating 20 year olds. No, a person doesn't have the right to date whomever they please. In some countries, it's legal for 80+ year olds to marry young girls, some are still kids - based on the mighty principle that "one can do whatever/whomever they please". Just because it's not illegal, it doesn't mean it's not wrong. Plus, it's just disturbing to see an almost 50 year old - or is he 50 already? - jumping from woman to woman - he's either interested in settling down, in which case he should be dating just one person -or he's not interested in a family life, in which case he shouldn't be dating at all. I could understand it to some extent when all the boys were teens or in their early 20s, but now it's just ridiculous. I know you all live in a "liberal" thinking country, but I have the feeling nowadays abnormalities are being perceived as normal, which is soooo wrong. It's not right that any person on this forum be made to "retract" an opinion based on a system of values, just because others' fan bias. Like dylandog said, nobody believes Jason is "a bad guy", but that doesn't mean he's a saint either- he's just showing signs of immature and questionable decisions. Every single member of this band has been criticized for various choices they've made in their lives, why would be Jason exempt from the same treatment? He actually had it pretty easy going while he was in the band. For all his questionable public appearances, he never got the 10th amount of the slagging Gary did for simply existing.“

*sigh* now I’m getting some pattern that the older you are as a fan of an act, the cynical you are.

If anyone manage to read this until this part, please let me know your thoughts. Especially about Jason because tbh even I still confuse about his mindset.

#take that #tt5 #tt digging

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