#and it made me so fucking uncomfortable to be 'lauded' as 'christ-like' because I'm like....

[thesaltyace]

Ooooo boy

Guess what time it is?

RANT TIME!!!!

What to expect below the cut: barely controlled RAGE at my new neighbor regarding discussion of religion (Christianity in particular). Spoiler alert: I’m not Christian and have a negative knee-jerk reaction to most interactions with people who go out of their way to make sure you know they’re a Christian and/or assume that I am, too!

This interaction has been bothering me ALL FUCKING DAY. It only “clicked” for me as I was putting away groceries just a moment ago that I’m upset because of the way this neighbor gave me only two choices in the conversation: 1) agree with him because of the assumptions he aggressively placed on me, or 2) make the difficult decision to “other” myself to a person I met literally two minutes ago.

So here’s what happened. The spouse and I needed to go run some errands today. We decided to take our large vehicle (an SUV) which was still loaded up with a few things from the move (...three weeks later.... lmao) so the spouse went outside to quickly shove it all into the garage so we’d have an empty car ready to transport groceries and possibly a table (if we found what we were looking for).

I got distracted while he was out there but didn’t try to redirect myself because I knew he’d come back inside once the car was unloaded so that we could treat our dogs and leave. But after a while it dawned on me that he’d been outside a lot longer than needed to unload just a few things into the garage. As if on cue, he comes inside and mutters, “Well, I haven’t unloaded anything yet because I met the neighbor over to the right of us.... that’s been fun....”

Apparently the neighbor is outside washing his car and sees my spouse’s Star Wars tshirt and uses that as an opportunity to start a conversation. No big deal, sure, lots of people do that. Then he immediately lets my spouse know that he did NOT like the most recent trilogy. And as spouse tells me this I outwardly cringe. Because here’s the thing..... 1) you’re going to lead with that?? and 2) never has anyone said that to us and been talking about anything reasonable. It’s always about not liking the “PC culture” and “catering” to particular audiences (read: being a sexist and racist) and never anything like “whoa they really fucked over their actors of color wtf”. So that’s red flag number one, but of course I also acknowledge that I don’t have a lot of details about this dude or his opinions yet, so I’ll just treat this as one piece of the suspected puzzle and see how it turns out. “Strike one,” I think. 

But you and I both know where this is going, because liking the last Star Wars trilogy isn’t itself political but the reasons you don’t like the final Star Wars trilogy suuuuuuuuure are telling.

Anyway, because my spouse suffers from chronic politeness, he feels awkward unloading the car while the neighbor is trying to talk to him so he just.... stands there and listens. So I join him outside and almost single-handedly unload the entire car myself while the spouse continues to awkwardly talk with the neighbor. I don’t bother to introduce myself to the neighbor and he doesn’t really acknowledge my existence either, so I’m already mentally thinking, “Strike two.”

So the dude just keeps kind of talking at my spouse as he stands there awkwardly, trying to be polite and friendly but feeling that he’s not truly part of a conversation. And he’s right! I finished unloading the car, went inside to treat and crate the dogs, and returned to the car, signaling that we needed to go. The spouse tries to disengage, but the neighbor is very intent on talking to him about his Gaelic heritage. Oof. Dude, I know we wear kilts but we literally Do Not Care. We wear them because we like them. The fact that we each have some Scottish and/or Irish heritage is just a little bit of justification we use if we aren’t comfortable telling someone that we like them because they’re both gender-neutral and gender-wtf clothing.

So anyway, the neighbor who is already on Strike Two veers deep into “If you had started with zero strikes, this topic immediately bumps you up to Strike 10″ territory. He makes some comment about being related due to Gaelic ancestry, and then uses that to segue into, “Well, I mean, we’re all cousins really when you think about it! After the flood, you know, with Noah and then those families parted ways with different languages and drifted apart.... So yeah, we’re really just cousins, you, me, and the rest of the world!” And he just grins at us with the expectation that we agree.

Y’all I have said it before and I will say it again: I may never go back to being maskless in public. And it’s specifically because no one can see my facial expressions in situations like this, when I desperately want to leave the conversation without causing a scene but also can’t hide either my horror, disgust, or anger.

So, as someone who was raised in a Southern Baptist household and is now staunchly non-religious, two things went through my head:

1) .....If you believe that all humankind descended from Adam and Eve then... the flood is kind of irrelevant for determining if we’re all related, wouldn’t you say?

2) ...you REALLY just did the thing. The thing that until today I’ve not been able to adequately describe. The thing where you make the pompous assumption that of COURSE these perfect strangers I’m talking to are CHRISTIAN! Of COURSE they are! So I’m gonna talk to them as though I KNOW they are and as thought to be otherwise would be ABSURD!

So my spouse and I are both standing next to our car, staring at this man who’s wearing a smug asshole grin on his face, really proud of how “friendly” and “loving” he’s being, I’m sure. And spouse glances at me, probably hoping that I don’t tear this man’s face off and therefore break the peace. I glance back at him, trying to figure out if I do want to rip this man’s face off or if I’d rather go shopping for a table. 

And I decide that I’d rather shop for a table and not immediately torpedo the chance of hopefully peacefully avoiding this neighbor forever more without introducing animosity. So we laughed uneasily and I said, “We’ve really got to go if we want to get everything done before things close today,” then hoisted myself into my seat and shut the door. Spouse hopped in and the second his door shut we both shrieked a quiet shriek of “OMG WTF” and drove away.

But I’ve been chewing on this interaction ALL DAY and I’m like.... why am I so goddamn mad about this??? And I finally figured it out. It’s because this man left no room for me or my spouse to be anyone other than who he assumed we are. 

He assumed that we were 1) Christian and 2) agreed with him. 

I won’t speak for my spouse, as his relationship with religion is more complicated than my own, but I 1) am not and 2) do not.

He crowded out who we actually are to make room for who he thinks we should be, and that will NEVER be okay with me. I’ve fought against being who others want or tell me to be my entire goddamn life, and that is why this is so upsetting to me.

We could either agree with him (or decline to disagree - same effect on the neighbor’s end) and keep the peace.

Or we could “other” ourselves and make it known that we aren’t the “good” people he assumes we are.

Because here’s the thing - never have I met someone who assumes I’m Christian and is 100% okay and nonproblematic when they find out (or I tell them) that I’m not. There’s always disappointment or confusion or outright hostility. 

And that means that othering ourselves to this complete stranger who lives next door to us isn’t safe and puts us at risk of making our existence here a living hell. Because we don’t know what kind of person he is, but based on our very brief interactions thus far I can probably guess. 

I am still so goddamn mad about this. And it’s interactions like these that make it so incredibly difficult for me to try to remain neutral or unbothered in situations where I must interact with overt Christianity bullshit. The people who are the most loud and pushy about it, the people who are the most insistent that of COURSE anyone worth interacting with is Christian, are exactly the types of Christians that make me want to run screaming from the room.

#bad neighbor #christians make me so fucking uncomfortable #and its the very specific kind of christianity that exists here in the US #and especially in the south #it's the fucking worst #omg and I never told y'all how one of my spouse's colleagues called us 'christ-like' #for delivering a hot meal and fresh baked bread to them #like.... we delivered that to everyone in the department as a nice gesture when the pandemic began #and we were trying to find ways to stay connected #oh he also said that about me making masks for everyone around the same time #I'm like....I want the people my spouse works with to be safe and healthy?? #and it made me so fucking uncomfortable to be 'lauded' as 'christ-like' because I'm like.... #do NOT compare me to your religious figure #do NOT #it's bullshit and feels so performative just STOP #ughhhhhhhhhhhh

[pendraegon]

hi ellian, I recently started trying to get into arthurian legend a bit and like, i'm working my way through some of chretien de troyes but sometimes I just want something a bit more modern and easy (I've read cliges and erec and enide.. oh my GOD erec is a dick), and if you feel like getting into it at all, why do you hate t.h. white / the once and future king ? whenever I look for recommendations its the first anyone recommends ! i'm so unsure whether to read it ?

hi!!! okay okay okay i legit got SO excited reading this because arthuriana ask<33 but also holy shit dude WHAT?? YOU READ..CLIGES AND EREC AND ENIDE FIRST?????????? cliges and erec and enide like oaisklfdjosadjfas they suck so much oh my god (anyways yeah welcome to the “we all hate erec” club on tumblr dot com, i think almost everyone who has read that text hates him with a passion) but holy shit if i started out with cliges and erec and enide i would never ever read arthuriana again. for chretien de troyes the only two things that are worth reading are yvain: knight of the lion and lancelot: knight of the cart. lancelot is significantly harder/more difficult than say yvain but also because de troyes fucking HATED lancelot and you can TELL through the text.

oh man..toafk...okay christ so we actually got into...a little bit of discourse, or as much discourse as you can GET in the arthuriana circles on tumblr, over this. i am hesitant TO call it discourse because i don’t believe it is at all but rather that me and a few friends were informing people just of...well..... it was a matter of a fact of the arthurian circle here on tumblr skews VERY white and toafk has a lot of racist/homophobic/misogynistic/ableist content in it that is either actively or unconsciously skimmed over and instead is just blatantly praised without ever getting into the nuance of discussing the fact that toafk by all means is NOT the end-all-be-all arthurian text. (personally it REALLY grinds my gears when people use toafk to cite their sources but that’s another matter aoisdjfoas)

th white is...well, th white himself and his works are incredibly racist in that there are SO many racial slurs used to the point that i remember being distinctly uncomfortable reading it, th white’s portrayal of palamedes (a muslim knight who is often portrayed as a “conversion fantasy”) is deeply upsetting, and the fact that th white uses a specific dialect FOR certain characters as well that gets even more skin crawling due to it. i cannot find the post for it but if i do i’ll update it but there are these “notes” of th white’s for toafk in which he says that lancelot (who toafk portrays as a gay man but lancelot, despite being one of the greatest and handsomest knights in legends, is portrayed as grotesque and ugly....the classical western thought of beauty = good, but also equating homosexuality to ugliness is. uh...not great) preys on younger men/squires (such as gareth, gawain’s brother). there is a lot of linking between homosexuality and pedophilia in toafk and the fact that toafk is LAUDED for this portrayal of lancelot makes me genuinely ill. similarly, mordred is shown to be the only disabled character but he’s villanized to the point of it being sickening. his portrayal of women especially in regards to guinevere is strife with misogyny (there’s this one specific part about how gaudy guinevere looks now that she’s old and applying makeup) and in regards to elaine of corbenic it’s uh. somehow he made elaine of corbenic WORSE than she is already.

that being said, toafk was published in 1958 and by all means i firmly believe that [1] no books SHOULD be banned ever but [2] that being said you MUST be aware of the author’s biases that seep into the text because of COURSE that happens. and [3] as long as you are AWARE of said biases (and th white has many and once you’re AWARE as well of th white’s family’s history in india you can’t unsee it in his work) and you KNOW what it is you’re imbibing, then by all means, use critical thinking skills -- there is still something to be taken from BY toafk and by what it is th white wrote but do not praise it as “the best” arthurian modern novel when it falls flat on so many levels. i feel similarly about mists of avalon which is another highly praised modern arthurian book especially in its portrayal of female characters, but lots of people simply do not want to talk about or KNOW that the author herself is a rapist and a pedophile. i’ve read both of these books and like, i wouldn’t recommend them at all because personally i also think that the writing sucks, but IF you read either of these works, it’s good to be aware exactly what it is you’re getting into. especially since arthurian circles, which again are predominantly white, often tend to keep these things very hush-hush or get VERY antsy if you speak out badly about toafk/mists of avalon.

arthuriana HAS and IS used as a dogwhistle online and in alt-right spaces. arthuriana HAS been used historically to promote islamophobic and antisemitic sentiment. arthuriana HAS been used to villainize people who don’t fit a particular “mold” of “normality”. arthuriana HAS been propaganda itself -- but that doesn’t make arthuriana bad or evil. arthuriana is a LIVING tradition, an evolving body of work -- for me, as someone who adores the medieval lit side of arthuriana, it’s extremely troubling to see just how the works from the 1900s and onwards has, instead of uplifting the genre as a whole to become more inclusive, has only become more entrenched in racist and misogynistic and homophobic thought. arthuriana deserves better, we deserve better, and arthuriana CAN be better.

here is a link to a discussion post that goes deeper into it!

#arthuriana #oh my god this is so long oaisjdfosadfsajfsafdasifsa #i hope what im saying makes sense like #nuanced thought! it's fine to read toafk but the way tha tso many people #push aside criticism OVER toafk by being like 'this is THE best arthurian novel ever!' #literally it's not go read white footed hart and come back instead asoidfkajsdofsafdsa #ask to tag #corywong