#didn't mention any other factional ringleaders because well

[otnesse]

During Cannes 2005, George Lucas and Revenge of the Sith were part of the selected films. As one might remember, Cannes 2005 was particularly notorious for being primarily a bash-America fest over actual quality of filmmaking. Lucas was no exception ultimately, though to his credit, he does focus on the generalities of how democracy is given away rather than stolen rather than spending his time bashing America (not that he didn't do that, since he used Vietnam and especially Iraq for those tidbits, though he does admit Star Wars predated Iraq and any similarities were a coincidence). One part of his speech elaborating on this, one of his examples, really irked me especially recently:

"Why did the senate after killing Caesar turn around and give the government to his nephew? Why did France after they got rid of the king and that whole system turn around and give it to Napoleon? It's the same thing with Germany and Hitler."

The part in bold is the bit that really irked me. George Lucas, did you even pay attention in your history courses? There was an entire period of time between King Louis's dethroning and later execution and Napoleon's takeover, and a very bloody period as well. If we take into account "get rid of" as basically meaning King Louis XVI being placed under house arrest after being made to sign the treaty, aka 1791, we had the September Massacres occur shortly thereafter. Then when we get to 1793, the year King Louis XVI was actually killed, we had the reign of terror, which was composed of endless mob riots instigated by the Jacobins and other factions, even the so-called "moderate" faction, the Girondists, as well as Khmer Rouge-style massacres in various French towns at Robespierre's order, with Alsace being one place that was targeted for genocide largely because, of all things, the language it spoke (Alsace, while technically a French region at the time, was composed of people who spoke German), not to mention the Republican Marriages at the Loire River (which entailed two naked people tied to a pole and then tossed in a river to drown, either straight or, if there's not enough of either sex to do it that way, even same-sex coupling), and then we get into the Vendee massacres that was an explicit scorched earth operation at a bare minimum, if not actual genocide. And this was all BEFORE the Committee of Public Safety turned against the ringleader, Robespierre, and subjected HIM to the Guillotine, AFTER he failed to shoot himself. Heck, my High School Teacher, a pretty blatant leftist and anti-Christian bigot, fully acknowledged at least the generalities of the Reign of Terror, while Lucas at best seems to have either forgotten about that Reign of Terror by the Jacobins (which OBVIOUSLY was a major factor in WHY the populace got Napoleon in as a desperate attempt at regaining stability), or WORSE, seemed to actually THINK the Reign of Terror WAS the best part of France. And considering he clearly used Napoleon as an allegory for the Empire in this case, I'd like to point out that, if anything, Robespierre's France was far CLOSER to what the Empire was generally depicted as. Funny how leftists clearly forget about that or otherwise don't seem to actually care regarding applying that knowledge there. Sum it up, the way he used that example just made the Old Republic of Star Wars look even WORSE than what the prequel trilogy presented it (and it was less than stellar as it was, especially when its corrupt nature helped pave its way to the Empire).

I could understand how the Roman Republic->Roman Empire comparison would apply to the Old Republic->Empire bit (my only real correction to his point is that the senators DIDN'T give Octavian the title of Emperor, Marc Antony did. The senators if anything had to go into hiding after Antony basically whipped up a mob during Caesar's funeral while claiming he was there to "bury" him.), as the Roman Republic was a very corrupt governmental body run essentially by oligarchs, and Caesar took power initially by marching his men into the capital. I could even understand the Weimar Republic->Nazi Germany comparison due to it also being a corrupt and very weak republic that was literally FORCED into existence over the events of World War I, and barely kept aloft before the Great Depression worsened things. But using Robespierre's Republic as the basis for the Old Republic, much less how it transitioned into the Empire doesn't even work and if anything communicates the exact OPPOSITE message.

I think George Lucas REALLY needs to rethink how he says things, bare minimum.

#anti-George Lucas

[remythologise]

Hello! I found your blog via you amazingly summarizing all that's going on with the spn drama. Due to my schedules, rl stuff, some of the arcs that didn't vibe with me, my availability to find a place to watch...the rollercoaster I was used to with this fandom was more me binging it in a weekend to going months to over a year without watching it. I still haven't watched the last season(but with a fandom this big it's pretty impossible not be spoiled so I more or less know what happened) BUT oh great one I ask of thee for more information if you have it...other than being busy and whatnot, I'm not really one to keep up with the actors as well. So could you also maybe do a summary of all the stans? I'im seeing terms I haven't seen before. Who is Kelios(sp?)? Hellions?? probably messed it up but like...I guess what are the name of each legion? Who do they have alliance towards? What was their desires? Que paso?!?!?!?

Hi there! 'Some of the arcs that didn't vibe with me' me emotionally quitting Supernatural in Season 7 after they killed Castiel 😂 Anyway I totally get it, I went through the same culture shock mid-last year when I got back into SPN and tried to find where fandom was at! There's really a LOT of lore and content after 15 years though so I'll just do the broad brushstrokes based on my impressions and personal stereotypes PLEASE remember this is oversimplifying groups and individuals to tendencies and I'm very biased! Also important that there are sub-factions within sub-factions - again, I'm simplifying here!

I've also linked to the 'Super-wiki' in terms of some definitions because the Super-wiki has pages for them where the Fandom-wiki does not. Great introduction actually - only in the Supernatural fandom. There are two Supernatural wikis. One, through curation and twitter activity, supports BiBro/Wincest factions and does not support Destiel users. One is more neutral or Destiel-friendly (I don't know that the Fandom wiki has a personality/social media presence per se). You cannot make this up. There is a factional war... within use of fandom wikis.

Destiel faction

People who primarily ship Dean/Cas, love Castiel and (often, although not always) Jack, and the 'found family' of Supernatural as well as the brothers, and like the post s3 seasons too. Hated 15.19 and 15.20 for killing Dean and ignoring the other characters/narrative arc of the show. Nicknamed 'Destihellers' by the Wincest faction as a derogatory term, 'reclaimed' and shortened as 'Hellers', a nickname they use affectionately to describe each other. See more info on nicknames here.

Sometimes also ship ‘Cockles’ (the ship between Misha Collins and Jensen Ackles) although generally speaking they're more respectful of the wives of the actors than J2 shippers, who are notoriously responsible for... a vast series of insane-fan misdemeanours. Historically most were also good at keeping RPF to themselves and not harassing celebrities with it directly, although recently, particularly with younger twitter fans, that has not been the case.

Sub-factions:

The ‘Desticule’ or ‘Destiel tumblr’ - general grouping of Destiel-shipping tumblr users around 20-30 years old, usually LGBT+, most who came back to the show post-15.18 after leaving it for various reasons including getting sick of the queerbaiting. Funniest bitches alive etc. and responsible for the best text posts you’ve ever seen. Can also start stupid discourse and in-group drama when they’re bored.

'POLOL' - People of Lots of Letters, a discord group (of tumblr and twitter users) that ran on the assumption Andrew Dabb was playing a hugely intricate game of 3D chess to do with gnostic symbolism among other things, and would make Destiel canon. Have since had their own factional sub-wars and fallen apart a bit. Some of their meta was and is good and interesting! Some of it was wildly off the mark. Now generally insist that Dabb/the writers were all pushing for Destiel canon and the network is entirely to blame.

Twitter fans (TikTok edition) - younger fans around 18 and younger who (FOR REASONS BEYOND ME) started watching the show around 2018-2020. Definition of 'stans'. Tend to be very loud and aggressive on twitter when Events Happen, which like. I do get, because they've grown up in a completely different media environment and this kind of Dinosaur Politicking around LGBT+ issues is beyond them. Fancam central. Anyway stream #CASTIEL for clear skin!

Twitter fans (AO3 edition) - older fans around 30+ who kept going with the show but either don't have a large tumblr presence or just prefer twitter. A lot of fic writers, GISH-ers, and BNFs in this group. Some of them are very cool and reasonable in their opinions, some of them act like the younger stans. Some of them too accepting of what happened wrt 15.19-20 in my opinion, because, in contrast to the younger twitter stans, they grew up expecting Destiel to NEVER be canon or respected. 'Can't believe we got this far' etc.

Multiship faction

Multishippers or shippers of things not as large as the two main behemoths . Sub-factions based on shipping, e.g. Megstiel and Sastiel. I don't think these groups are very large though, and seem to have very little influence in the Discourse.

Wincest faction

LARGE overlap with the 'BiBro' faction and their opinions, which I'll get to. Ship Sam and Dean romantically. Often pretend to be BiBros on places like twitter and reddit in order for outside groups to take their opinions more seriously. 'Wincesties' etc. are derogatory nicknames given by the Destiel faction.

Sub-factions:

Multiship fans - ship Sam and Dean but respect Castiel/the 'found family'. Politically overlap with the faction of multishippers, I think. I don't have a lot of insight on this group of people honestly, but I know they exist.

Bronlies - the typical BiBro and 'Wincest' shippers most people think of, twitter user 'Kelios' is one of the would-be ringleaders of this faction - typically tend to be older white midwestern women. Historically have been pretty nasty on twitter (leading to Robert Berens, writer who made Destiel canon, occasionally subtweeting Kelios). Also tend to ship 'J2' - and take it very seriously as a legitimate thing that is really real. This is called 'tinhatting'.

BiBro faction

People who think the show should JUST be about the brothers, love Supernatural s1-3 and everything after it should have been just like Supernatural s1-3. Hate Castiel, Jack, and the 'found family'. Largely loved 15.20. Go to literally any comments section on any Supernatural article and You Will Find Them complaining about how the show should just be about the Brothers. Tend to be older, straighter, and more conservative/Republican (and male) fans. (I am aware that the definition of 'BiBro' used to refer to people who just liked the brothers but there's no definitional difference now in the discourse.) The Wincest and BiBro faction are generally much more wealthy than the Destiel faction (they being younger and more diverse/queer/left-leaning in general) and would be the biggest revenue generators at conventions etc.

Sub-factions:

Reddit bros - literally anyone who visits r/supernatural. Well, that's not fair - there are people who post reasonable opinions on there, but it's pretty rare and they get downvoted a lot. Like to talk about 'toxic Destiel fans' 'ruining the show' and how Dean is a straight man who is straight and could never possibly be gay. Might even think the confession was platonic despite all evidence to the contrary. I'm Not Homophobic I Have Gay Friends, But No Gays on MY Show!

Old Guard - group of older fans who overlap strongly with the Wincest faction, but might not necessarily ship Wincest.

GA faction

'General Audience' - These are the group of audience members that aren't 'online' so to speak; most watch the show on TV as a Casual Viewing Experience (are therefore also sometimes referred to as 'casuals'. Mostly their opinions tend towards BiBros, but they have a vast range of baffling views thanks to being Not Online and usually Not caring about Supernatural that much or thinking that deeply about it.

Sub-factions:

People who simply watch Supernatural on TV and then don't think about it very much after that.

I said they weren't 'online' but that's not entirely true; I'd probably classify people on Supernatural Facebook Groups as GA, along with friends of friends who post statuses about how 15.20 was a neat finale that wrapped up the series.

Conclusion

Supernatural is famously the show that appeals to both Republicans and Democrats, literally All Orientations, so there's a WIDE range of factions. However, most warring online boils down to Destiel vs. Wincest/BiBro - the war that started in Season 4 and has simply never ended. In terms of the 'actors' and their stans, in general, Wincest/BiBro fans love Jared, like Jensen, and dislike Misha. Destiel fans love Misha, like Jensen, and dislike Jared. Of course as with everything, there are variations and this is just a generalisation. But that's the summary of it, from my perspective!

This didn't even get into Sam girls, Dean girls and Cas girls. God. Anyway.

Hope that answered your question, anon!

#for some reason read more does not work on my blog main page now? you'll have to click the permalink #season 17 time for a theme change tumblr has broken this one too much sigh #ask #anonymous #this might be the most controversial thing I've ever posted or I might escape with nobody noticing it. Only Two Outcomes #didn't mention any other factional ringleaders because well #I value my life etc. #unironically who will fund me writing the PhD on supernatural fandom etc. etc. #the graphs. the statistics. the sociological insights #kira for ts #supernatural spoilers #spn spoilers