#dont get scared away by the “all male” cast cause theyre not male

[nicosraf]

Hello, if it’s alright could I draw some fanart of my interpretations of the different angels? I must admit I barely passed the half way point on your novel and I’m obsessed with the angels. Although I do have a question where are the women??? Jkjk. But it’s been an itching question since they are gender less beings with many forms. Also do the angels ever take their more biblical form and 🪶🪶🧿🧿🧿🪶🪶 hello brother their fellow angels?

hello! of course!!! I love seeing interpretations!!! (though i do ask not to whitewash, if possible hghghg)

And the women!! Well! The (biblical) explanation is longer than I expected but here ya go:

Angels as genderless beings is.... actually not true. The Bible refers to angels as "sons" of God a couple times – like Job 1:6, Job 2:1 (most explicitly), and Genesis 6. Genesis 6 is pretty important, because if Job is right about angels being the "sons of God", then this chapter says angels are capable of sex and procreation (with women, at least, though I have some thoughts on that). Also, angels exclusively appear as men, in the Bible. When the angels visit Abraham, they're described as men. When they visit Sodom in Genesis 19, and all the Sodom men line up to try and have sex with the angels, the angels are described as men. (In fact, the "gay people are evil" understanding of the Sodom story is entirely contingent on angels being understood as men.) (Fun fact: it's from Sodom, also, that I reasoned all angels are outrageously sexy.)

But why are angels all men in the Bible? Well, the reason is because Eve is supposed to be the first women, and in traditional (sexist) Christian thought, Adam is a man, modeled on God, who is masculine. Because the angels are between them, then they're supposed to be men, or at least man-ish.

I remember when I learned all this I thought it was absolutely hilarious. God and his all-sexy-male angel paradise. Incredible. Perfect.

But in all seriousness, the origin of this idea is that Christianity is really sexist. And the gender of angels is something pretty much every significant angel writer/artist has struggled with, like John Milton in Paradise Lost.

The back and forth about angel gender is actually my absolute favorite thing about Paradise Lost. The most significant line is "for spirits, when they please, can either sex assume, or both;" which clearly states that angels are supposed to be intersex. And yet, all the angels in Paradise Lost are men, use male pronouns, and they're described in almost entirely masculine terms; one instance where that isn't the case is this one line about Lucifer: "his form had yet not lost all her original brightness". Even here, the feminine characterization is just an attachment to the masculine.

In my opinion, John Milton wants to explore angel gender (and angel homosexual sex, too, btw, as per angel Raphael telling Adam all about the gay sex angels are up to), but Milton is held back by the pretty clear Bible teaching that angels are supposed to be male or at least male-ish. (Also, my friend Cas is much more of an academic about John Milton, angels, and angel gender, and I'm mostly parrot-ing him because he's much smarter than me, so they're your guy if you have questions). I like Milton's ideas of angels being between gender, though, and I plan to do a lot more with that:

I played around with the bizarre idea of God and his all-male paradise, but ultimately, the angels in ABM are not male. There is no such thing as male because there is no such thing as female. Like Milton, I think they're between genders.

Why do they use he/him pronouns, then? As a nod to the "all angels are male" Christian teaching, and (on a more personal level) to explore tenderness and queer gender expression (all the makeup and jewelry and dressing up) in he/hims. (Plus, it's a tiny jab at machismo, which is incredibly attached to Mexican Catholicism and an enormous source of pain for me, so now I get to make Catholicism gay and girly and laugh to myself). But, lastly, pronouns don't equal gender. Men can use she/her, women can use he/him. (Especially coming from a Mexican perspective, it's pretty common to hear gay men use feminine pronouns to refer to themselves.)

But what about their bodies? Do they not have masculine bodies, then? As I mentioned in this ask (where I discuss the trans-ness of the ABM trilogy and angels and also God) and this ask (where I discuss angel sexual organs), I stay vague because you have the room to imagine whatever you want. Specifically, angels are intersex but what that means for their physical bodies is basically up to you.

(But why would you write vaguely? Because ABM is about gender and queerness, and the fact that it can't be easily understood and it takes on a life of its own for each reader is the point !)

ABM and its sequels are about angel gender trouble and gay feelings, so don't worry, you have a lot to look forward to in that regard.

Oh and about the "biblical forms".... :) no spoilers

#i tried not to spoil but skskksks #please do keep reading #and dont worry - the use of he/him pronouns will get questioned in the sequel #dont get scared away by the “all male” cast cause theyre not male #i was pretty inspired by Lesbian Seperationist Utopian Fiction #I always found lesbian seperationism to be less about “women = good” and more about a society of single-gendered-ness and queer attraction #i do wish i could just drop the sequel already but alas #im being held in a publishing prison rn #mine #ask #angels before man