#idk this is why i hate discourse nd drama

[makeroomforthejolyghost]

right so that moment has passed and now it turns out i do want to discuss my thoughts in some more detail lmao

like ok to be fair i'm an outsider to all this; i am not and never have been active in cpunk or -adjacent spaces. and i definitely feel like i have not seen the epicenter of this whole drama, since like. in browsing random disability blogs i have in the last week encountered multiple people whose posts for months have been 90% complaining about This Shit, and yet i have not encountered very much of the Shit in question at all?

like. i've seen a whole bunch of posts that go something like, "i can't believe abled NDs* have the gall to call us ableist bullies just for saying that chronic illness and autism are different experiences!", or like, "no matter how clear i make it that i'm talking about physical disability, all my posts end up with a billion notes tagged 'adhd' or 'depression' or whatever. why they gotta make everything about them! let us keep something to ourselves for once!", &/or c. usually in that order. but like... without the obvious middle stage where they argue on their blogs with actual objectors to this "let this be just for us" plea. so like maybe they've deleted most of those posts, or maybe the central example is on some cpunk bnf's blog which i just haven't happened to click on yet. idk. but my point is

that from my outsider's perspective it feels like a huge and sudden escalation? to have gone from "ugh not every post has to be about you; read the actual words i wrote, don't just pretend they said something else that you like better!" to, like, "in case you needed more proof that all abled NDs are ableist scum" rallying-the-troops type posts

and wow! i hate it! i cannot actually imagine a level of vitriol from The Other Side that would justify this bullshit.

i want, like?--i sorta hope that somewhere i've missed there's like, a long manifesto from the aforementioned (hypothetical) cpunk bnf about why they and their friends have suddenly decided that neurodivergent people don't count as disabled. even if i probably wouldn't agree with it, i'm still like. that should exist. you can't just start Asserting stuff like that, at people you know will take offense, without explaining anywhere why you've adopted these different discourse norms.

(or i mean--you can, but if you're not trying to escalate conflict then you really shouldn't.)

but.......... also it makes sense. not morally! but. logically. it seems to be a common problem with any echo-chambery discursive space? i remember when i was ~18-21 and much more Online, i would drink some shiny new kind of SJ koolaid and then forget within weeks that people who hadn't drunk that koolaid didn't know what it tasted like.

e.g. after that post that's like (i'm paraphrasing) "the expression 'boys will be boys' should be replaced with 'bad parenting leads to assholes'" got super popular, for years whenever i heard someone say "boys will be boys" i assumed they were either endorsing or deliberately mocking the sexist baggage with which i associate that phrase. when... no, pal; it's a common phrase. you have zero information about what it signifies in random strangers' minds

so like, i'm guessing that's what's gone on here? like like like, backing up a bit: i sympathize with and frequently feel for myself these people's rancor about mental illness (and, though to a much lesser extent, autism and adhd) being the public face of disability. and particularly the thing where like--

ten or fifteen years ago, when i first encountered awareness-raising activism about mental illness, a lot of it took the form of "you wouldn't download a car"-type comparisons with injury, illness, and/or central examples of physical disability. as in, like, rebuffing "your [mental illness accommodation] is just a crutch!" with "imagine telling someone on actual crutches that they shouldn't rely on a crutch" &c.

when what their intuition told them was about physical vs. mental or visible vs. invisible illness was really more about acute vs. chronic illness.**

and like a. this mistake is very annoying, since it leads to a lot of mentally ill/invisibly ill people assuming incorrectly that physically disabled/visibly ill people don't get doubted and belittled the same way they do, when uhhhh guess again.

but also b. it means that while from my perspective it seems super mega obvious that mental illness is the public face of disability in 2023, many people who care a whole lot about activist efforts on behalf of mental illness but who don't know much about other kinds of disability activism still, erroneously, inexplicably think that the reason they don't see as many campaigns like this for other kinds of disability is because physically disabled people are seen/accepted already and don't need to fight for that the way mentally ill people did/still do.

when like.

...this is such a tiny example but i'm bitter about it so: the other day on my university campus i saw a fundraising booth about support for mental illness. you can't log in to our canvas page without seeing a mental health hotline pop up in the corner. nearly every professor i've had here has at some point gone on a tangent about how important it is to support mental health. many times we've had little impromptu class discussions about the unique struggles faced by people with (always this phrase) "invisible illnesses like depression." my school is really really loud about how much it cares about student mental health.*** and i don't think any of these people know that when i encounter these pronouncements i feel like my own experience has been overlooked

so yes, ok? it pisses me off also when mentally ill/neurodivergent awareness-raisers, activists, and people generally think it's like. an underdog move. punching up, if you will. to reblog posts about chronic pain/other phsyical disability and add "this can apply to mental illness, too!" as if that's a mindblowing revelation to us stuckup, old-guard invalids when like. y-yeah, we know that mental illness also sucks. many of us (raises hand) experience it ourselves, and even if we haven't? we too have seen the internet. the mental illness experience is way more legible to the general public than ours is, so it's really fuckin annoying when people co-opt descriptions of our experience to be about theirs.

but like. the fact you (a physically disabled blogger) have now had this conversation with your (also physically disabled and blogging) friends doesn't mean you get to treat people who weren't in on that conversation like hopeless reactionaries??? this is like me in 2012 seeing the term "friend zone" as a red flag no matter who flew it, even though 2011 me had used that term nonjudgmentally and had no inkling of its entitled/sexist undertones.

like i can remember the exhaustion of communicating with waves of internet strangers who can't be bothered to backread your blog a few pages before commenting on some viral post but. th-that is the thing that's occurring here?? multiple waves of people who, each, individually, see something that without context looks inflammatory. not one wave of pigheads who refuse to listen.

*their term, not mine. don't like this at all myself. see previous post

**though to be fair, i don't doubt that plenty of otherwise-healthy people have been accused of "attention seeking" even for, like, a sprained ankle. or for still audibly sniffling when they come back to work after having had the flu. some people are just....? dicks? just dicks. if you can imagine a bad behavior, it's probably common somewhere.

****does this decrease the rate of mental illness in our student body? hahahaha no, probably not

#things i should hate thursdays

[catboyfeli]

tfw u find a rly nice bigender + bisexual blog and ur like !!! bc ur bigender nd bisexual but theyre hateful towards non bi mspecs and bi lesbians/gays :(

like listen i have nothing but bad experiences w the pan community myself but u can prefer the pan label over the bi label nd not be biphobic. the pan community itself is honestly still super biphobic but hating on individual pans is beyond shitty. like idk how you can support nb microlabels, but hate on sexuality microlabels?? to recognize the gender binary is shit is also to recognize that not everyone vibes with common sexuality labels, and that isn’t necessarily for -phobic reasons

ppl just get so caught up in their own experiences that they dismiss the experiences of others... it’s really sad. i used to be the same way til i grew the fuck up nd stopped assuming shit about other ppl. everyone has different unique experiences nd to dismiss ppl’s experiences just bc they don’t align with ur own is bigoted at best.

and reminder that this is coming from someone who has had nothing but terrible experiences w pans nd is uncomfortable with the label as a whole as a result. pans gave me immense internalized biphobia nd transphobia and in general nothing but internalized self hate. SO, if i can put aside my discomfort to be supportive to ppl who identify differently from me nd have different experiences, then why cant other people? to hate on other lgbtq+ people is the exact opposite of what needs to be happening. it just feels too similar to hating on lesbians bc of t/rfs or smthing.

#idk this is why i hate discourse nd drama #no matter what ppl always get mad at u #just leave me alone i have trauma this is too stressful #idc what u think as long as u arent hateful to others #cw swearing #vent #mspec discourse #ask to tag #this whole thing hurts my brain bc i have? rly bad experiences w pans #one of our alters ids as pan #so we have very conflicting feelings on the subject #and im just hitting my head with a pot like ok stop asking me discourse opinions leave us alone #the bright side of being part of a system is having multiple outlooks on a subject #the down side is ALSO having multiple outlooks on a subject bc then it turns into headache city #im also very sick bc someone didnt pick up our meds until a day later #so we have mega withdrawal symptoms rn

[thedreadvampy]

see this is going to be another unkind Fandom Hate post but like

godddddd can't the Fandom Internet. en masse. just idk chill out and have a laugh?

like I don't like when the Big Fandoms are comedies bc the Fandom Hivemind often feels like it only has one mode of dealing with things and it's treating them like Extremely Important High Literature And High Romance

and it shakes down to feeling like there's only one genre of media in the world. like the fandom for a little kid's cartoon has the same vibes and takes itself as seriously as the fandom for a silly wee comedy which takes itself as seriously as the fandom for a slasher film which takes itself as seriously as the fandom for idk the Green Knight or some other artistic statement piece.

and this is a double edged sword bc media that is trying to Say Something and be a serious exploration of ideas and themes gets treated as just a collection of characters and beats to smash together

and media that was never designed to bear the weight of Serious Po-Faced Conversation bc by its nature it's glib or relatively simplistic or shocking or silly gets treated like a deeply important philosophical statement and people get really angry that it doesn't go as deep into ideas (or romance) as a prestige drama.

and that's not to say there's no characters or story to get hype about in thoughtful philosophical pieces, or that there's no philosophy or themes or meaning to "low art" genres worth taking about. most popular comedies and kids shows are very clearly trying to convey some quite complex ideas.

nor is this about a specific fandom or specific discourse. in isolation most of these conversations are good and fine. like most things, it's a pattern problem.

but like. the monogenre approach to fandom is exhausting tedious and uninspiring. and it also puts so much pressure on creators to be all things to all people. like how much harassment have Rebecca Sugar or ND Stevenson got largely for making kids' shows that aren't also simultaneously covering every base of an adult understanding of issues? how many writers of popular horror have got attacked for writing Bad Things Happening? how little room are popular comedy writers given to make throwaway jokes without stopping the story dead to cover their bases? and of course how many people who Literally Aren't Writing Romance have their work received as an underwhelming romance?

idk it's just wearing. I wouldn't have any interest in the fandom version of OFMD or of TMA - I like the shows but fandom very evidently isn't built for comedy or horror. at best it's built for handling YA adventure novels and tentpole blockbusters but honestly it doesn't really do any favours for anything more complicated than Harry Potter and Marvel there either.

you need different frameworks to enjoy different media, because different media is trying to do different things. It's a colossal disservice to treat them all as interchangeable building blocks and also we can't all want the same very specific genre of art. nowt wrong with that genre of art but again we're different people who are looking for different things.

anyway I think that's why fandom leaves me so cold. among a few other things but mostly that. it boils everything down to the same genre and it's not a genre that offers me what I'm looking for.

#obviously Riverdale fandom is an exception #but that'sbc I've literally never interacted witha part of Riverdale fandom #that frontlines shipping or meta over just pointing at the show and hooting and hollering #(also like Riverdale is in the same space as Marvel films or Harry Potter it was built with fandom in mind) #(that's part of what makes it so funny) #red said

[icecreamkink]

so im watching ice princess bc. brain empty. it has been like legit 15 years since i watched it! this was the very first ice skating thing i have ever watched and i was OBSESSED with it when we rented it in vhs. i wouldnt get Actually Into figure skating until sochi but this movie was the reason i was gliding around in socks on the floor and started watching winter olympics as child

it starts w this song that sounds like a ripoff of this OTHER early 00's girl movie song that i cannot remember (or prob never learned lol) the lyrics to and its driving me crazyyy

the ptbr version is called 'sonhos no gelo' aka dreams on ice and i personally think its a better name than ice princess

then again dreams on ice is such a ice show name so maybe thats why they chose not to lol

the music that is playing when hayden panettiere (??) first talks to georgina from gg is. . . weirdly soft porn-y. harold-

OMG WHO IS THE GENERIC "HOT" JOCK. WHERE DO I KNOW HIM FROM

i feel like sasha cohen being who makes georgina go 'omg. moving on ice requires physics!!!and thus Plot' would generate Some Type of dumb discourse today. i cant explain it i just feel it

that tv is very very old .

im so happy that joan cusak is playing an annoying judgy feminist she looks like shes loving it as she should

color coded skaters!

kim cattrall as a scary retired Did She Break A Competitors Leg Did She Not Guess! coach mom named tina is also what she Should be doing

i remember she and joan cusak fight ?by the end? so we are looking forward to That

is this another 'give the girl that the mc has chemistry with a brother for no homo reasons' example; never rewatch your heroes

juniors faking landing quads in 2005? sounds kinda precocious but what do i know

movies abt artistic sports usually Highly overestimate how nice the training outifts are but caseys a woman of the people

georgina wearing kim cattralls old outfit and the yoiness of it all. idk how to feel abt that. blueprint

honestly if my mom hated fs costumes and made me wear That i would definetely rebel

ok listen. i dont Really Know, and i guess the point is that as a Physics Person with Talent she like breaks the barriers or something but . . 'tucking ur arms in' 'pushing with your toepick' are pretty standard things people are conscious of and i dont think theyd make a girl whos been training for a couple months land a double ? would she even have the muscles for that . i mean OK ITS A DISNEY MOVIE IK i Know IM JUST. ok ok

whys georginas token best friend so likeable. get it ann

teddy, the no homo zamboni driver

joan cusack and kim cattralls passive agressive interactions!!!!!!!! ty for my life

Unlikely Complex Computer Program Check

jen! im not dressed for a party! sigh. shake it. ??? eye roll your hair >>>>>

GENERIC HOT JOCK IS SHANE OMEN OMGGGG I KNEW I KNEW HIM

hey! you get paid to be a has been on ice ok. and its Awesome. and its probably more fun than competing all things considered lbr

no but like, its not like georgina couldnt go to college during or after a skating career..... plenty of athletes do that.....

considering she could retire circa 2015, she could even become a youtuber on TOP and capitalize on yuri on ice. joan cusack has no eye for the future smh

but making her mom not simply a controlling academic but instead a working professor regretting probable wasted potential was a smart choice

aw cds !!

'youllbe be worth even more when you win' damn dont hold back tiffanys dad

i feel seen with the way the parents are so obnoxious in this movie

i mean i feel seen bc i had to deal w ballet parents not that i am a obnoxious parent myself, i. i dont have kids

i wish i could say omg thats so dumb as if athletes are always at each others throats like that but uh. on junior level? it happens

hayden panehfd and georgina ending up together would have been so cute sigh

only the girls/women are important in this movie and im into this. rip teddy

zoey bloch sure can rock

i wish i knew how to hidroblade :( or. skate. at all; lmao

nikkis regionals costume was very cute , prize for the jumping bean!! . eh shrimp

so who choreographed georginas programs? tina? did she do it herself? is that why they look kinda meh. why didnt they show it

ok but like. needing to break in brand new shoes is . is it not . common knowledge. :for anything. ?

LIKE im not defending the sabotaging of a teenager but. as a Smart Person who Knows Physics and has been training in a high impact sport and STUDYING IT, did it rly not occur to her that like. competing in brand new, though skates might be a Bad Idea? she figured out how to land a triple in months but not that performing on brand new shoes sounds kinda stupid??

ooo~~ its just like sarajevo~~

JOAN CUSAK AND KIM CATTRALL THROWING IT DOWN YES

the dramatic fight makes it kinda inescapable that they act circles around the kids but oh well

why didnt kim cattrall push teddy to be a figure skater too. like double the odds of a success, seems kinda obvious

its noT MY DREAM MOM. ITS YOURS

*hayden panerimo, voice cracking* anD I WANT *kim cattrall*okay okay thats enough -

drama in the hallwayyy

georgina answering "why are u passionate about harvard" with essentially "im not" kinda iconic ngl

its noT MY DREAM MOM. ITS YOURS²

whys she not wearing the new skates. she already has them now, and for free too

i have never seen an actual frozen lake in my life but are those cracks supposed to be like that

yes it IS a beautiful sport casey tell em !!

kim cattrall was a such a big brain choice. who else would sell 'im not gonna apologize for sabotaging you and taking advantage of ur stupidity" to a 16 year old in a disney movie

"i dont have to like or trust my coach "kjasdkfn casey,,,,, sweetie. i mean eteris girls do win trophies back to back so I Guess In A Way but also.,,,,,, sweetie-

i know that she meant it in a general way, but the Possibility of kim cattrall and joan cusack going to high school together and somethin something Watching and Envying the pretty prom queen/world champion, something being tired of performing feminity something something short skirts something harsh realities of academia and pro sports careers / anywhere for women something. something something.

michelle kwan!! i did not remember her in this

forget georgina and hayden panettone, otp is hayden / ann . hann!! tutor trope!!!!

omg does joan cusack teach at a community college or a encceja type of thing . bitter moms plot thickens

zoey skated to toxic! queen.

i watched this movie so many times in the days i had it rented that i actually still remember a lot of the final programs choreos lmao

skate w the heart uwu

costume prettye

ah!! i used to try to copy the programsss thats why i know the moves LMAO the memories ,,, keep coming back to me

whats this gala lighting all of a sudden???

hann keeps on winning!! look at that hug!they left together! arms linked!!!!!!!

centering the mom daughter relationships is a :'''') for me

we stan nikki

dramedy centering on joan cusack and kim cattrall navigating georginas career

FEEL THE RAIN ON

YOUR

SKIN

NO ONE ELSE CAN FEEL IT FOR YOUU

this was nice :') its confirmed ive had good taste since toddler age 🤷

#ice princess #:') #this was a memory lane trip #filmes #m.