#kiyoanon

[doritofalls]

A question about Kiyo sticks around AU again! ✨ (I saw your recent emo hat comic and it’s so adorable that I can’t stop thinking about it >^<) So... from one of the very first concepts I felt that Shuichi was the only one who cared where Kiyo is. Why didn’t he turn from him?

aa i'm so glad you like the au and the comic! :'] i know the au's been a bit all over the place as for its tone, but that's sort of deliberate. kiyo has good moments like the recent one! and he has. not so good moments.

as for shuichi, that's an excellent question! like i've mentioned before, the au takes the events of kiyo's FTE's as canon that has taken place by chapter 3, which means shuichi and kiyo are just default closer than in canon. it was always bothering me a little that after spending free time events with characters, they were almost like strangers again in the main story. i understand why that is of course, from the game's standpoint. but for the au i'm pretending spending time with people actually has an effect on the plot.

we know from kiyo's FTE's that shuichi had quite a deep trust in kiyo by the end there, and i think his reveal Would come as a betrayal. and i do think shuichi would have a hard time processing all that, being a sensitive and introspective person whose trust Was already broken once by then. however, kiyo's subsequent breakdown and state would probably override that hurt with worry at least for the time being. he Is kiyo's only friend, and locking himself in his room and not eating for days IS extremely concerning behavour. which is why i think shuichi would postpone discussion for when kiyo's bounced back enough not to be considered a risk to himself. like, he IS hurt and he wants to seriously talk about that sometimes - but for the time being, he's sort of kiddie gloves with kiyo (something you can sort of see in the haircut comic).

while that is the case it is kind of easy to shift into their old dynamic, i think - avoiding the elephant in the room and acting around it. it's not a status quo that could be kept up for long, but in the meantime i think they could be chummy enough.

as for korekiyo, he doesn't... THINK he did anything to hurt shuichi. he didn't outright lie to him and he never posed a threat to him. he appreciates his friendship and care but fails to pick up that shuichi could have felt betrayed by his whole. serial killer thing. he senses their tension at times, but he thinks it's only because of the things that have been revealed about him as a person vs shuichi being directly affected by it.

as for EVERYONE ELSE, i think there's sort of a two-way divide on the perception of kiyo and shuichi's closeness after trial 3. there's the emotional thinkers and directly affected (ie: HIMIKO, kaito, miu), who think shuichi's wrong or even actively endangering himself by continuing being friends with kiyo. there's also the more logical thinkers (ie: kokichi or maki), who consider shuichi's supervision a good thing, because shuichi is as trustworthy as they come and keeping an eye out for the murderer Among Us is simply the sensible thing to do. and hey why should kaito be the only one with a murderer for a pet project.

#thank you for the question !!! #mcfreakin answered #kiyo sticks around au #kiyoanon

[doritofalls]

How easy do you think it would be to beat kiyo in a fight? Fists only

honestly, i think kiyo would probably be kind of vicious in a fair fight. he may be lanky but the height advantage is still there and he has more than enough experience with actual murder to know his way around. the fact i could deadlift him is neither here nor there. he also strikes me as the kinda person to go pretty wild on adrenaline (see: his trial).

#i imagine the hair would kinda be his biggest disadvantage in hand to hand combat #mcfreakin answered #anon #kiyoanon

[doritofalls]

People compare Kiyo to Maki all the time, and I'm not sure why. I've always thought he was supposed to be analogous to Sho? Who is also entirely unrepentant too, like, she only stopped because of Byakuyra and later Komaru. Why is Sho seen as redeemable and not Kiyo by the narrative....?

i feel like kiyo and maki are only a good comparison when it comes to how the cast reacts to them having a past of having committed murders. the same cast that shrugs off maki's past is super nonchalant about kiyo's execution, even though in the grand scheme of things maki probably killed more people (and in a less sloppy way, i imagine). i feel like the "theory" that she's forgiven because she's a cute girl is kind of implied by the story itself (especially with kaito's storyline and his generic melt the ice queen approach) as well as the fandom.

visually and somewhat narratively, i feel like kiyo is much more of a callback/counterpart to sho and toko. however, sho develops into comic relief at best, as far as the narrative is concerned? which is a very odd and again, very gendered choice in writing. and i liked sho! she was the last character i cared about by the end of dr 1 (and byakuya, kind of). i suppose the difference is toko's relationship to sho - her being more conflicted about the whole serial killer thing, unlike kiyo's full complicity. while sho and toko seem to become more balanced through the narrative (especially after having komaru around), i feel like it would have been an interesting approach to deconstruct kiyo's loyalties the other way around.

#sorry for the late answer! you are raising a good point #mcfreakin answered #kiyoanon

[doritofalls]

I am Interested in you Kiyo Sticks Around AU... it's a v neat idea and there's so much to dig into there. The complete destruction of the sense of self... the rest of the class having to deal with there being a very clear guilty-as-sin murderer among them. So much potential.

If I can ask though: what, in this AU, would trigger his (or at least the start of his) disillusionment with his sister? Because I think that would sit very very far in, for the process to even begin. And at the same time it's needed for him to do any meaningful character change.

(cont.)

On a (semi-related) note I believe Kiyo would use each and every potential argument he could find to defend his sister if anyone were to point out that her behaviour was. Bad. Not matter what weird leaps of logic or contradictions he ends up with. Korekiyo Shinguuji: Ultimate Mental Gymnast.

thank you!! i really appreciate such thoughtful and kind feedback! honestly, i got invested in the concept of the au because while i love kiyo and wish he had a chance at redemption obviously, i also think the way chapter 3 played out was a massive flop that missed out on a lot of interesting possibilities, especially due to the double murder thing. just WHY introduce the concept of getting a freebie murder if you're not going to elaborate on it whatsoever??? similiarly to the first blood perk in chapter 1, it just served no purpose and felt pointless to even be brought up. all it did is make the trial like, ten minutes longer? but with kiyo being behind both murders, it was really just. meh. quite anticlimactic.

i ended up rambling a lot so the rest is under the cut

i think as far as kiyo's character goes, he's written in a way that makes redemption... quite impossible, very much by design. his entire identity and sense of purpose is tied to the idea of his sister so, so strongly that you cannot separate it without giving him a significant case of ego death... and even then, i think it would take significantly longer for him to find his footing than the spawn of any dr game. not to mention that whatever coping mechanisms he would come up with, would realistically suck at least as much as his coping mechanisms to losing his sister in the first place.

as far as the au goes, i don't have it fully figured out - because again, kiyo's written like an existential nightmare -, but i figure there would only be an opening to even trying to reason with him through significant emotional attachment (in the au's case, to shuichi, but also because i'm a sucker) that chances are, would be bothering kiyo in some level already. he does not make attachments, and when he does, they are in the pursuit of his studies or his mission to look after his sister. he observes, he studies, he doesn't get involved. maybe the closest he gets to people is the superficial connection he makes with his future victims in pursuit of finding out if they are worthy to be killed. he calls the v3 cast his friends, when it is clear they either straight-up disliked him the whole time through or just begrudgingly accepted his presence (not that that isn't the case with the entirety of the cast, but that's a different story entirely).

what i'm saying is, making a genuine friend like shuichi through his FTE's, would bother him i think already, because it is just so alien to him. i think you can perceive that through the kind of relationship dynamic he upholds with shuichi - they are the same age, but he's only comfortable with his closeness in the context of academic roles.

in the rough outline that's in my head for the au so far, there could be an opening through the argument on the caged child ritual not working -> the legitimacy of kiyo's possession being questioned. i think there is certainly leeway there (maybe a class trial with his sister persona as the main character? could be fun), because kiyo is anything but unintelligent. he knows of grief responses and mental illness, and i don't think it would be impossible to get him to see reason - especially if one could find holes in his story.

of course, this point truly depends on how the writer wishes to see kiyo (in this case, how i wish to carry on my au), because the game is just so gimmicky and unbothered when it comes to portraying mental illness. i don't personally think kiyo would have DID - though he certainly feels like he could fit the criteria of some dissociative disorders, from a dissociative disorder haver - as much as dealing with a very deeply ingrained tulpa situation. however, i think the possibility of recognizing his sister persona as his own mind's creation instead of genuine spiritual possession could help him gain a little bit of cognitive distance. that is not to say that his sister persona would cease to exist imo, even if he no longer wanted it to - which could lead to another interesting change in dynamic and a possible reason for his distance from the persona that was solely created to be a vessel for his irl sister's wishes.

i think even if you build down from kiyo's not being possessed by his actual sister but coping with the worst possible grief response you still would have to take a Lot of time to get to kiyo's actual irl sister may have been bad to him. i think even if kiyo got to accepting the fact he was abused by his sister, he still wouldn't try to find her accountable, because of their unique circumstances, her illness and isolation. i think there is anger there, but pushed so deep under the surface that it would probably take years of therapy to unpack. i imagine this is the kind of emotion that fueled near 100 murders of girls his dead sisters' age. however, facing that is definitely not something that would happen in the time spawn of the killing game (implying kiyo would survive to the end), and i think he would still take the mere implication extremely bad. like you said, ultimate mental gymnast for sure.

#i dunno how much sense this makes i am actually quite tired but!!! extremely good question #mcfreakin answered #anon #korekiyo shinguji #kiyo sticks around au #kiyoanon

[doritofalls]

Coming back months later to say that while Shinsai is extremely toxic eventually I do genuinely think the scenes of Kork infodumping while Shuichi genuinely listens with interests is so so so sweet. Like something you only really get once in a while. Most dynamics you get like this have the person listening talk about how boring or uninteresting it is but Shuichi genuinely listens. It's so nice.

hehe don't feel bad about it!! i still really like kiyo (and shinsai) and i'm always up to talk about them :] kiyo's a character whose interests and passions are largely brushed off (which is partially him having the wrong audience, with the V3 cast kind of being very preoccupied with everything else going on while also kind of being a rude bunch in general), which!! sucks. sucks to see his passion be shut down time and time again. and shuichi finds genuine interest and connection with it which is such a welcome change, even if we know that EVENTUALLY, kiyo couldn't exactly keep the crazy under wraps. outside of shuichi's optional FTEs i don't think kiyo's ever made quite the connection with someone aside from his sister (which in itself was a garbage fire) as he makes with shuichi and that just makes it even sadder for it to be doomed to go up in flames. like, they are a good match but there's NOT a good time unless everyone gets real cool with some things really quick.

additionally, a kiyo i did a while ago

#kiyoanon #mcfreakin answered #anon

[doritofalls]

i love all your kiyo thoughts and art!! i wish people would take more time to try and understand him yk

thank you..... i feel that way as well! the writing seriously mishandles him and obviously the literary analysis crowd and the dr crowd don't always intersect but ..... the lack of empathy for him is just kinda wild compared to toko or kotoko.

#mcfreakin answered #anon #kiyoanon

[doritofalls]

All the shinsai fics i see are sweet and fluffy, wheres the toxic shinsai?

i have no idea 😭😭😭 which is not to say i don't like cute shinsai stuff, or think they would be necessarily bad for each other - but i do think it would be an uneven ride with a LOT of potential to turn sour. and even the concept of a recovery journey is... in my mind, bumpy at best realistically and extremely fragile. kiyo is such a messy bitch and while shuichi is a wonderfully mitigating person, his demure nature is exactly what makes him such a potential enabler. not to mention that the plain possibility of him being unable to handle kiyo at his worst and kiyo pushing him away are also worth mentioning as just, likely outcomes of the pairing.

there's 80% chance shinsai would crash and burn and we don't talk about it!!! which is probably because shinsai is already such a kiyo gets a break coded ship, which i am fully complicit in mind you, but the balance of fluff to angst really is kind of striking.

my all time favorite shinsai fic is yen by azia on ao3 (heads up for mature rating!!!), which i think builds up korekiyo's inner world and their relationship wonderfully. i have read it a hundred thousand times. other than this one though... i don't think i have read a fic on them that i could really rec under toxic or even realistically messy shinsai.

#like people like to ignore that kiyo has no normal templates for interpersonal relationships #he wouldn't be normal about things #mcfreakin answered #anon #kiyoanon

[doritofalls]

hi can i just say thank you thank you for getting kiyo so right... i hate when ppl overly baby/make his healing process so fast but you actually give kiyo healing nuance and like a breather and while u also clearly have a ship in mind you dont have shuichi be like his one true savior that instantly make him no longer mentally ill but a friend who helped him a long the way, this is the kiyo content i starved for and i thank you with every part of my heart for this

ANON YOU ARE SO SWEET......thank you!! i like kiyo a lot and i really strive to write him well. i really think he was never MEANT to be getting better from the start, so i gotta stretch and squeeze some of his characterization when it comes to writing any kinda recovery or development... i'm very happy if it makes a genuine impression though!

haha i feel a little bad about the ship angle - i have read people make the complaint that every kiyo recovery au is shipping based, and i definitely see why that would be annoying or distracting. but honestly, even if just in a platonic capacity, i really don't think kiyo COULD make good progress alone? he is a person extremely prone to codependence, to the absolute limit of creating a reality where he is never alone as far as he's concerned, and i think if that was to be stripped away from him it would need to be replaced with...something. some kind of interpersonal support line. i chose shuichi for that, because again i'm a sucker for them together, but i can easily imagine rantaro or ryoma in a similar role. angie too probably, though she's also got her own stuff to figure out big time.

you're right too that people don't just,, get better. healing from trauma's a game of walking up stairs where you may feel content with where you are in the present, eventually. thus i don't think kiyo would be like, done with this journey if he lived till the end of v3's plotline. what i want to explore more in the au is him starting to feel more comfortable with existing as his own person/maybe starting to learn the ropes of connections without a constant toxic need to belong to someone. so i imagine, by the end, he'd be on a marginally stable patch but with a Lot of the healing still ahead of him.

#I ALSO THINK it's like... a good exercise in interpersonal relationships for shuichi as well #to be there for someone and possibly close with someone without disregarding his own boundaries #etc etc.. i love kiyo but i also really like shooichi #mcfreakin answered #anon #kiyo sticks around au #as someone who is also prone to codependency #kiyoanon

[doritofalls]

I don't know how to say this, but I think Korekiyo sliced open my brain in some capacity. I became a fan of him through his execution before I even knew that Danganronpa was a MYSTERY game, and then just everything about his character -- the murder. the fact that he was a murderer before the killing game. the self-soothing gestures. the mask -- and then the more OFF-PUTTING ELEMENTS of the character like the sister angle or bondage aspect or the military uniform just cleaved my brain in the fact that you can really just. rod serling a character in a work that was not made for it. just go "man, wouldn't it be fucked up if there was a guy like that" and they DID. And it's not like Danganronpa has never done mini stories or implied arcs for the murderers of the given chapter or handled sensitive topics poorly, but Korekiyo just tips the scales in such a way that I find RIVETING. It's actually gotten me more interested in more disturbing media and movies to just try and figure out how to do it myself. I kinda just want to take Korekiyo and jam him into a different work and try to DO something with him, grant closure or something, but I can't even imagine how I'd start, if that's even my plan. It's all so much in ways I can't even begin to comprehend and I have no idea if any of this sounds coherent, but I guess that's my general take on things and your Korekiyo analysis is just so. so good to me. so good for me. bless.

that first sentence hit me as such a jumpscare i was like hE DID WHAT TO YOUR BRAIN????

that being said fantastic ask, let me answer properly under the read more 💕

i think just generally speaking, the executions are one of the strongest visual aspects of dr. like sure they are usually quite silly and over-the-top, which is very brand conscious of the games, but i always found the disconnect between the situation and the (lack of) expression of the character so. eerie is not the word, but something like that. a strange disconnect between the world these characters claim to be from and the situation they are forced to exist in. very fun.

and kiyo's execution is definitely one of the stronger ones imo, both visually and conceptually! it takes near full use of his themes and motifs as a character and it's just. brutal, unusually so. not an execution as much as torture stacked up till he's dead, and even after that. which i think, makes reasonably good sense when you consider his victim count compared to any of the others.

it also carries a great symbolic reading looking in from the "kiyo Was abused by his sister" angle, because near all of its elements - being tied up, being slowly boiled alive - can be interpreted in a symbolic relation to an abusive relationship. i also find it interesting that kiyo's execution continues post-mortem because he is deep enough in his delusions for death itself not to bring him despair. he is used to pain. he is used to death. monokuma needs to use his sister's explicit rejection of him to break his spirit, something he has spent his life convincing himself, working to ensure could never happen. like the writers really said fuck this guy in particular.

i hadn't touched upon much of the bondage/milita inspirations of his character - it kind of baffled me for a long time as an odd aesthetic choice to make tbh -, but i feel like i understand the line of thinking, at least? even if i'm not a fan. korekiyo's character takes a Lot of inspiration from both japanese folklore (the kuchisake-onna and futakuchi-onna inspo) and just the edo period in general, of which the roots of kinbaku are originated from. from there we make the leap of bdsm and bdsm fashion culture (gimp mask and the frequently echoed miliata motif), and you kind of get from point a to point b, even if it makes very little sense outside of a character specific angle. i do NOT think kodaka my man put this much thought into anything at all concerning this game but that's what my brain's for ig.

yeah though, even compared to edginess level of any previous addition of the series, korekiyo's just a Handful. it's not like we hadn't had a murderer part of a killing game before with a long track list (genocide jack), or a murderer with a quote-unquote split personality (genocide jack...TWO) or a victim of explicit csa (kotoko) or a crazy guy that's just a touch too fruity (nagito) but with kiyo it's just. all of it and it's SO much. and it's all handled and framed so BADLY. like kiyo's just such an insane character, not referring to his mental health, more like, the concept of him. he's norman bates from psycho and he's billy from black christmas and he's pinhead from hellraiser and the narrative is completely unable to handle half of his over-the-top baggage. he's the perpetrator and he's the victim in a way the narrative refuses to elaborate on, and while he doesn't exactly deserve better, you feel like he deserves at least a fighting chance in a competent narrative. iunno. i also don't make sense here, but feel free to dm me anon if you wanna talk about kiyo not making sense. i'm free all the time.

thank you for liking my analysis!!! he is the worm in my brain i have no say in the matter right now, but i love to know that people actually read them and go hm :'] i've been busy with work/a dhmis drawing i been sitting on but have like some...post game kiyo shoochi sketches where they're friends and niche internet micro celebrities.

#me at you our brains are broken in a very similiar fashion #mcfreakin answered #anon #kiyoanon

[doritofalls]

Do you think korekiyo poses his patience/gets mad quickly?

i'd say it really depends! kiyo's shown to be pretty mild-mannered and patient in a lot of sceneiros throughout the game. as long as he doesn't detect ill intent he seems pretty willing to help the other person see his side of things. for example, he wouldn't get mad at someone for having trouble understanding something or messing something up unintentionally.

though as soon as he DOES detect bad vibes he is pretty quick to get his claws out, and he has a few sore spots that are easy to push to get him mad fast. it's also important to note that from sister's first lines to him, losing control of his emotions and composure seems like an undesirable state that he consciously avoids. his stoicism isn't all natural: it's something he puts effort into projecting and something that often cracks.

i'd say, in a somewhat well-grounded emotional state he's patient enough, both by temperament and conscious effort - but once he's on edge like he is in his trial or for a lot of chapter 3, he's much more prone to outbursts of emotion.

#he is so easy to tease it's not even funny. i think kokichi avoids him because he's too easy a target #mcfreakin answered #anon #kiyoanon

[doritofalls]

I can now fully picture kiyo refering to pop culture characters as "creatures" thanks to your latest shinsai drawing

i imagine he works on like. mom logics for these things. confidently calls every pokemon a pikachu. texts in half sentences ending with ... uses emojis very randomly and he thinks 😂 is a crying face.

shuichi doesn't seem overly concerned with pop culture, but canon seems to indicate he has a base level understanding on it at least. i don't think he'd have the heart to correct him because it's very endearing. would probably give kokichi some sort of allergic cringe reaction though.

#does not understand abbreviations in text #he's like you granny with a computer #mcfreakin answered #anon #kiyoanon

[doritofalls]

I love that despite being a seasoned serial killer he (kiyo) still got caught by an amateur detective and was the first suspect. This truly was a foreshadowing that their backstories were fabricated

oh for sure... i do like that shuichi's backstory compliments kiyo's case in a very deliberate way. it really mirrors shuichi's first murder case that left such a deep impression on him, and it really illustrates his growth from chapter 1 to chapter 3. he doesn't want to uncover the truth and he doesn't want to accuse any of his friends, but he accepts it as his duty in the situation - being the only one who can find the killer and win everyone else a little time again. i think the fact that his backstory almost repeats with kiyo is just... such a neat detail. i know shuichi gets flack, but he's really my favorite protag. his development is second to neither of the others.

#the dramatic irony was really telling there though tbf kiyo was kind of bad at being a serial killer #mcfreakin answered #anon #kiyoanon

[doritofalls]

Kiyo's pranks be like "Keheheh you seem to not notice that [obscure factoid about antrophology] is not actually true, it was merely a jest, a joke, a meme, if you will"

that is 100% correct but i think kiyo in general would be insufferable about memes. he would not get them in real time but would be sure to give a full lecture on them and their anthropological significance. kokichi would stop sending memes in the group chat and just start posting his mugshot for reaction images.

#SORRY ABOUT THE ASKS... i've been in a mood. gonna reply today to all of the ones i got #mcfreakin answered #anon #kiyoanon

[doritofalls]

Favorite kiyo moment was when he killed tenko and was like "oh no!! the seance didn't work 😨😨 how coumd that be?!?! I wonder if someone sabotaged it 😱😱😱"

banging on his empty head like a conga drum ❤️

#he's very smart but he counts too much on his general weirdness covering for his guilty vibes #which is to say it has probably worked in the past #celeste did what he did MUCH better in part 1 and even she overdid it #too much of a theater kid to get away with double homicide #mcfreakin answered #anon #kiyoanon

[doritofalls]

Kiyo is my favorite but I cant pinpoint why, idk why his bad writing resonated with me and not the other characters bad writing

that's fair they all got their turn on the bad writing to some extent 😭 though if i may, i would say kiyo has it the worst in v3 as far as being mishandled by the narrative goes, right next to ryoma (with the narrative kinda just going welp! guess his life WAS worth less than fucking lil' bush resident of the united states (2007) and only having kokichi go HEY GUYS WHAT THE FUCK) imo.

#ryoma makes me angrier tbh because kiyo's whole deal is just like #shock value and incompetent writing #with ryoma it's like they wanted to bring up a serious moral question about the value of human life #and then peter griffin fell over #anon #mcfreakin answered #kiyoanon

[doritofalls]

Why do you think kiyo wears that mask? (Other than the fact that the devs wanted a clear visual cue to show when the sister persona is speaking)

i was considering it may be a remnant of his time visiting his sister in the hospital - if her illness left her immunocompromised it would have been a reasonable requirement for kiyo to wear a facemask at all times in her presence. and since her sister made his uniform, i don't think it's a big leap to think she'd just include it as an accessory. now i do think the zipper defeats the purpose, but that's the best bet i would have.

#mcfreakin answered #anon #kiyoanon