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theconfusedartist · 3 years

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this goes a few places but i’ll try to stay on track

honestly, I’ve been thinking about this but like...

i kinda wanna write the arc in which the phantom thieves become better friends to the MC?

maybe this is a bit far fetched but like, the way the phantom thieves treat the main character isn’t the way you’d treat someone you care about. and like. this isn’t even coming from a place of me hating them either, bc i really really like all of them and i’m glad that they all get to move on and forward with their lives

like, the entire game the MC goes through making deals, shady connections, and dubious places to make sure everyone has what they need, whether its for weapons, items, or a shoulder to cry on, the MC is always there for them. and. i know that this is, in a game and narrative point of view, for the sake of getting the game rolling so the player can get supplies and doesn’t have to worry about waiting on other characters for things needed to assist in palace infiltrations. like, i get what it serves in a story sense, and why it needs to happen in a game sense

however

whenever i think of persona 5 as a writer, trying to write from the POV of the the MC, the phantom thieves, or any of the other confidants, it just kinda...hits me? the MC is a 16-17 year old that has managed to convince all these people that he has whatever they need to continue on with their work/life/well-being.

and for some, this makes sense, like Mishima and Shinya make sense bc in Shinya’s case its an older kid helping a younger kid with a bad parental situation using means that would keep him from getting arrested (which is when most people stop trying to help, for fear of retaliation from the parent) and with Mishima it makes sense bc he worships the phantom thieves to an unhealthy degree, while also keeping their image in his hands, and is also their only means of communicating with the outside world as the phantom thieves bc to do so otherwise would compromise their identities (not that yelling out their plans in the middle of a train station wouldn’t compromise them as well, but y’know) and that is dealt with by Mishima gaining confidence and learning how to be the hero he idolizes not only for others in distress but also for himself and continues to pursue his own creative pursuits

like, for all the phantom thieves, i have no real problems with their confidants

the only real issue is that, at rank 10, all of them declare that they’ll be on the MC’s side and help him through thick and thin. except.....they never do. and it’s not like it has to be big either, I’m not asking for any big dramatic scene either, just basic shit. like, you know what makes the MC a good friend? he reaches out, makes sure to listen, actively does what he can to help, and works with them to help them get through their problems. none of the other thieves do this, not once. and if you wanna make the argument that they all heard him out about his record, yes, that IS a great thing and i’m glad that they recognize that it was wrong.

but when i think of the rest of the game, i just think of them never talking to the MC. not even in the sense that the player has to see the conversation play out or anything, after all when you go on hang out spots with confidants but not for a link, the game says that the MC got closer to the character and you have the chance to give and exchange gifts. i really really REALLY liked that feature bc it makes it feel like the others are trying to get to know the MC and give him something he’d like.

however.

if they want to be good friends, they should also be able to do things that aren’t related to the phantom thieves. Haru, i give a(only a bit though) pass bc she joins the group so late that theres no way she’d know about all the ins and outs that the MC has to take care of as the leader, and by the time she would even get the chance, she’s dealing with her father, then the plot, then the final and Final bosses. she would’ve had no time to really learn the dynamics of the phantom thieves or the metaverse (and this is blatantly shown right before they first enter Okumura’s palace and right before they steal the treasure) and is rarely ever afforded that chance to bond with the group in game save for banter in mementos. not to mention, she actively gives some of the best boosting items in the game and also does her best to connect with the MC through their own shared similarities (Leblanc and her grandfather’s shop, always having to act a certain way for fear of reprisal, not knowing what she’s supposed to do but needed to act more mature as people don’t see her as a child but rather as a thing/tool for their benefit) that i didn’t really see in any of the other social links with the phantom thieves.

again, this isn’t saying that the thieves are being bad friends on purpose or that they’re going out of their way to be The Worst(tm) but if they’re going to claim that they want to help through thick and thin then why don’t any of the others ask about the MC? the only time i ever recall them asking the MC about things they like/dislike is during the summer Leblanc hangouts and it’s only about a specific topic. (examples being: Yusuke asking if they should make plans to go to France or buy a TV, Ryuji asking about the MCs favorite sports and preference in manga character tropes, Futaba asking if the MC ever built a laptop or dealt) i know this is a rpg, so i’m not expecting anything specific to come from the MC as the player is able to hc whatever they want about him, but even the game going ‘x asked me about y issue’ would’ve been enough. it doesn’t have to be detailed, i just want examples of the thieves that claim to be his friends asking about his hometown, his family, how the MC is doing bc rarely is that ever asked, or if the MC needs help.

like, yes, the praise about how cool and strong and awesome you are is great but if the MC has been running around Tokyo for a solid week talking to all these people, working multiple part time shifts for money, and doing xyz just to make sure the phantom thieves are operational then i (as a player) would also like that same sort of thing if this is supposed to be a team. honestly, though, it was fine for the most part bc the game was still really fun and hanging out with them (over all the other confidants like (Kawakami, Ohya, or Chihaya) is a gdamn BLESSING GOD dealing with them is stressful tbh) is honestly the highlight of the game for me bc they’re so colorful and full of life that i didn’t even really give too much thought about this save for once or twice, and that was only AFTER the interrogation room

why? bc up until this point, i had no reason to think that the phantom thieves were doing anything than what they said they would: sticking through thick and thin and lending their support. i simply attributed those moments that weren’t in the game to back up this claim as being shown during the non-confidant level up hang out times, that the things i talked about before were just not being shown to the player explicitly but it was still happening behind the scenes. but the interrogation scene with Sae kinda made that....fall flat on it’s face.

i mean, hear me out. even if, and that’s a BIG IF, there was absolutely no other way to get the police off their back, no other way to handle the assassin that was coming for them, and no way to do anything outside the metaverse.....................why was there no one there to make sure that the plan worked? like, there’s a camera inside the cell, so Futaba at the VERY LEAST should be able to tell whats going on inside, right? and even if you wanna tell me that somehow the cops were able to put that on a server that Futaba couldn’t access that still brings me back to the same point at before.

the phantom thieves, when explaining to Sae how they got their plan together, also have this nice little image of them going to the (was it the real or the fake one?) interrogation room and making sure that they COULD actually carry out their plan.

so. if they went to the physical place to make sure their plan could work, knew exactly where the MC was going to be and when, and knew there would be cameras, why did none of them have some sort of a back up plan set up? not even just in case?

like, i know that the ‘bad ending’ is the MC telling Sae the others’ identities and then dying but, the dude is drugged out of his mind! he’s been getting beaten for hours, if not an entire day, then interrogated by Sae! even if the MC had sold them out, it would’ve been a case of giving a drugged confession, bc the MC wouldn’t have been in his right mind.

yes, as a player, you can say no. as a player, you can easily say, ‘why would i give up my friends?’. it makes no sense as a player to let the characters who you’ve spent at least 40+ hours up to the wolves. but the MC? who is drugged out of his mind? who has been beaten bloody and knows that nothing he says is going to get them to stop? who then has to deal with Sae interrogating him and constantly reminding him over and over that if he doesn’t give her what she needs, he WILL die? yeah, of course the MC is going to say no, but if he did I wouldn’t hold that against him bc he’s not in the right state of mind at all. not only that, but then someone who was supposed to be a friend and ally is coming in to kill him, and the only thing to keep that from happening is starting up the metaverse and making him think he shot the real deal.

but even with that, what? did the thieves test out what would happen if someone shot what they think is that person in the other world while that same person is sitting in the same spot, at the same time, in the same conditions? bc if they didn’t, then why were they so sure this plan would work? and if they DID then why was there no one there to make sure the plan worked?

seriously, have someone hide out in the metaverse, right? then when the assassin comes in, that person can then verify that the MC isn’t fucking dead

what part of leaving a friend to act as a decoy, leaving him to deal with a police force that they have already been informed is corrupt and willing to do whatever they have to in order to get a confession (the same person that has already been brutalized by the police mind you!) by himself, to then ALSO deal with being interrogated, and then pray that the plan they came up with (that they also have no intention of making sure it worked) to deal with the assassin goes as planned, then ALSO HAVE TO PRAY that HOPEFULLY Sae decides to help him flee incarceration.

do you see my problem here? what part of any of this plan is solid? what part of any of this plan isn’t cruel? like, even with all the exceptions i was trying to give them, this is not acting as a good friend. hell, this isn’t even how you should be acting as a good ALLY, forget a friend.

and afterwards, the whole ‘yeah we’re so great we tricked akechi!’ doesn’t even feel like a good thing bc the MC can say he doesn’t remember anything and Sae can follow up saying that he shouldn’t have to remember what happened to him and

none of the thieves say a word. it’s just. glossed over.

like nothing ever happened

the bruises are gone somehow. the concern never appears. the thieves never ask.

welp! back to palace infiltration!

like?

what about that is being a good friend? and here’s what gets me: in the aftermath were the MC isn’t supposed to go outside bc ppl might see him--he’s still the one getting all the supplies.

what the hell? isn’t this the ‘thin’ they were talking about? hell, at this point i’m not even asking for them to talk about how the MC is feeling, i’m just saying they should be carrying at least some of the load if he is NOT SUPPOSED TO BE OUTSIDE

like what?

honestly, i wanna remake this post bc i ended up just making a bunch of word vomit but like. it is what it is

i love the phantom thieves but goddamn they are not very good friends. i don’t think they’re trying to be bad friends on purpose but they definitely are

#honestly #i think i need to rewrite this post #with like proper grammar and capitalization #listen #i can like characters #and also point out that #the power of *friendship* only works if you've been good friends #and persona is all about friendship #but the more i thought about that friendship #the more shallow i realized it was #and that's sad #bc the phantom thieves are some of my fave characters #but like it is what it s #persona talk

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