#they'd play against cis men but not trans people of any kind

[just-your-average-tangerine]

A queer newsletter from my hometown is posting about the lack of lesbian bars in this major city. But they're acting like this is a long-standing issue when it isn't. There was a lesbian bar in town. For many years, it opened sometime in the 80s. Then, around 2015/2016 trans rights became the hot button issue, and that bar took approximately 5 minutes to become a terf bar and start isolating itself from the rest of the local queer community. The petty infighting between regulars led to a gradual loss of business before the bar ultimately shut down in 2019. (Then relocated and reopened in 2021 as a straight bar).

It's great if they want to open a new lesbian/ women's bar, or otherwise create that space. But they've got to deal with this problem first.

#this is the bar my mom worked at where her group of friends #who were all regulars #had a running bet on which one of them would be the first to 'have' me #and how many of them it would take to 'fix' and 'make a good lesbian' of me #i was 17 #the youngest of them was 39 #most of them were in their 50s #they stopped hosting drag shows because too mamy regulars complained about 'celebrating men pretending to be women' #which is funny to me because i know one of the queens who performed regularly there and they at the time #considered themself a cis woman #they've since come out as a nonbinary woman #but the fact that these people just decided that a black person in drag must be a trans woman and therefore 'a man dressed as woman' #is pretty telling #after that the dart team hosted at that bar fell apart #because they refused to compete against any team that had trans people #or against any team hosted at a trans friendly bar #mind you this was not a gender specific league #they'd play against cis men but not trans people of any kind #then they pulled their support of the local lgbt youth center #because they were too trans friendly #and thag was pretty much the last straw for that bar #because that center is a long standing central pillar of the local community #so #op

[souryogurt64]

i think some people never get out of the bandom dome because pete never gets lauded for anything, especially not his sexuality. recently there was a whole video calling what he (and other musicians of his sphere) used to do on stage "queerbaiting" and calling his lyrics "misogynistic" while the same person talked about the importance of whatever harry styles thinks he's doing (nevermind the fact that they kept forgetting how race and sexuality play such a big role in pete's work and just called him part of the white straight cis man entourage). i wouldn't even say get out of bandom and take a look, you can just look at mcr fans who want to distance themselves from fob with an air of superiority about who's the queerest frontman in bandom lol. pete was never praised for being not straight, and acting like he is, simply because some bisexual 17 year olds on tumblr feel happy they have someone they can relate to, somehow equals him getting any kind of praise or respect is ignoring how most men of color get treated about their sexuality

Yeah I do think Pete can be sexist and has a history of treating women terribly but I don't really think any Fall Out Boy lyrics cross a line, I don't think TTTYG rises to the level of being misogynistic. I do think some of the things being conveyed in *67 and My Heart Is The Worst Kind Of Weapon are a bit concerning given his history but those are just kinda obscure demos, they aren't like actual songs anyone is referring to when they talk about it. Additionally, Patrick wrote a lot of TTTYG. Even in terms of songs that are """misogynistic""" it's like art or whatever, it's often not literal, I don't think there should be like .... a ban on "misogynistic" or "problematic" lyrics or that the songs are inherently bad and not good or whatever.

With literally any celebrity whatsoever that has said they'd prefer not to explicitly identify their sexuality publicly or spoken in ambiguous terms about it-- that's not queerbaiting, that's a real person, and real people don't need to have a certain number of oppression points to be touchy with their friends or wear the clothes they want to or write gay or sexually ambiguous lyrics/books/tv/whatthefuckever. Even if they do say "I am straight," and almost no celebs accused of ""queerbaiting"" do, that's still a real person and real people experiment and sometimes experience feelings they aren't sure about.

I do think there's some weight to the idea that actual gay/trans artists do not get the same praise/recognition as people who are ambiguous but that like.... doesn't mean it's the fault of artists who choose to be ambiguous. When I was younger and figuring out I liked girls my mom and therapist accused me of attention-seeking and faking it and mental illness and doing it to get guys to like me-- not that being gay was mental illness, but the doing it for attention part because I didn't seem "really gay" and there were actual gay people out there suffering. It was just a shitty way to treat a kid that was getting called slurs at school. And I wonder how many Twitter leftists who froth at the mouth with rage and rail against band guys or singers or whatever wearing dresses or guys painting their nails black are going to turn out to treat kids in their lives that way because in 20 years when theyre a mom they think their 12 year old son is only wearing a skirt/painting his nails to "prey on young women and make them think hes safe" or whatever freak opinions people pretend are woke

I mean like I think Pete has done some stuff that's really, really not cool and if anyone wants to hate him or hate me for posting about him that's fine with me. But I think because MCR do way more "playing characters" and keeping their personal lives separate and Gerard does not use social media at all people are able to project their ideals onto him and they/Gerard "get away" with more. I also think bands are like their fans and MCR are kinda pretentious so that's to be expected.

I also do think the only people calling him bi are 17 year olds on Tumblr and the only people complaining about him or even talking about him at all in 2022 are former 17 year olds on Tumblr but anyway yeah the race thing is shitty, I agree with that.

[dianight]

Sad that the internet is so hostile to women and cis women. Like tumblr at least does the thing where you get to choose (imagine!) what you want to see while everywhere else you are subjected to the metaphorical screams of people who think women are aliens or something.

Meanwhile you'll see idiots proudly declare that in spain we are so very tolerant of trans people, yes we are. Nevermind that the difference between not being transphobic and answering a poll saying that "you agree that trans people exist" as the highest possible level of support to count is massive.

I've been grinding poe for a while and occassionally I'll have the global chat active for hardcore reasons and read what people are saying.

Not like many people play ruthless hcssf in the first place, even less talk in chat. But I've had to ignore certain players because they'll repeatedly type the most insane shit.

The kind of stuff that I'd expect an edgy teenager to say for shock value, but for real.

For me to acknowledge someone's existence they must:

Understand that women are people. Seems simple. It is. Low bar. Yet. If someone talks about women as if they are another species, or inferior to men, or objects; that person is beneath me. They don't exist. Like reverse solipsism. Men who think themselves inferior to women can be tolerated as long as they understand the point.

Understand that LGBT people are people. A bit more complex. Lesbians are not for men to lust after[1]. Gays are not just a part of a joke or an insult. Bisexual people exist in their many flavours; a bi woman dating a woman is still bi, if she were dating a man she'd still be bi, you get the point, and viceversa, and all the colours you can think of[2]. Trans people exist and they'd like to exist in peace[3].

Understand that the us is not the whole world. If an usamerican talks about their experiences as if they are universal they must hold their breath for 1 hour. I wish not to care about what goes on that shithole but unfortunately many of their laws have effects on the internet I use thus it is every usamerican's duty to make the world a better place one frag at a time. They can start with themselves or the nearest billionaire.

Understand that anime/manga/novels and any other form of media that they did not grow up with is not inherently bad. Disliking anime because of a few tropes that some series have and generalizing it to and entire medium is racist. Using the word degenerate[4] to refer to yourself or others is insulting. Thinking that japanese people[5] are inherently pedophilic/incestous/rapey because of a few tropes is racist. Thinking that Japan is some magical place where they have unique values/better culture is still racist.

Understand that sex acts between consenting people[6] are none of anyone else's concern. Consenting people doing nasty things in their house? Cool. Consenting people doing disgusting things in some hotel/bathroom/alley? Cool. Consenting people doing kinky things in public? Cool. I'd personally find it distasteful, but still. People wearing revealing clothes, showing their bare chest or genitals, wearing collars or anything else deemed "fetish gear"? Cool. A society where consenting adults can do whatever harmless thing they want to do is what I want.

Understand that water, food, housing, clothing, education, entertainment, healthcare and others (!!!) are things that should be available for everyone for free inconditionally. Working together so that we can achieve these is the bare minimum that humanity should reach. If someone disagrees with this, or has some conditions, or some prerequisites to access them, or wants to play devils advocate for the many groups whose interests align against these: stick your head underwater and take a deep, deep breath.

Those are the very, very simple and easy facts[7] that I expect other humans that try to communicate with me to understand.

---

[1] Identity stuff is complicated. We know who I am referring to here. Default characters. Cis white straight males. If someone identifies as a guy and gets with lesbians and everyone is happy, good for them.

[2] Identity Sexuality stuff is complicated. Can't really include enbys and other genders because it'd get long. Same for other sexualities. You get the idea.

[3] I do not speak for other trans people. But I echo what I've seen others say.

[4] Please it is on wikipedia for fucks sake. Not one to police how others use words but come on. The only acceptable use of degen is when talking about negative regeneration.

[5] Should say asians but I think in this particular instance it will stay like that. It applies to a lot of manhwa and manhua too. Could include a bit about hentai but I think that'd be its own post.

[6] Consenting adults with consenting adults. Consenting teenagers with consenting teenagers. Pretending it doesn't happen will not make it stop happening.

[7] Could also include other facts about skin colour (I'm white btw), religion (no thoughts head empty), sinophobia (China ok) and others that don't come to mind atm but I'm tired so good night.

#dia talks