#things started to go downhill when they stopped doing letter to the editors | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

chattegeorgiana · 3 years

Note

I wonder where Kishimoto got that Sakura was not popular from. Besides maybe the 2nd popularity poll from where she went down to 14th place that one time she seem to do fairly ok in the popularity polls

Well, it’s rather a complicated thing here.

I’ve actually talked about this aspect in an old article of mine from 2015.

Back then there was this information that circled around Twitter that said the editors kinda ran a campaign against Sakura by showing him how she is hated, how Hinata fans were sending hate letters and all that, while Kishi was saying he was trying to make Sakura more heroine like.

Now, of course that is at most speculation since we cannot truly confirm it. But like I said in my article if we analyze a bit that and parallel the statements made there with tids and bits from the interviews along the years (and from what we know from fandom experience) it oddly fits so much.

Let’s take it a bit on turns.

The editors themselves hated sakura and started a negative campaign

Of course, this one here, like the others, cannot be very much hold ground if we take it face value. But then, if we start thinking about it, the manga’s writing in terms of Sakura’s character after the Pein arc it starts going really downhill, compared to previous arcs in the story. Think Sakura at the beginning of Part 2 up to Pein arc.

It was also, the last arc Kishimoto had Yahagi by his side. Yahagi left somewhere before the Pein arc, but not until he planned with Kishi the story up until then.

Next.

Kishimoto tried to push sakura and was supported by other mangaka by the editors in shueisha refused to allow a sakura ending

Now this is of course in terms of NaruSaku but also in terms of her status as a heroine.

You’d say, aah... bollocks. But then, let’s remember a slight detail. I talked about it few years before, in my Naruto manga: Sakura, the heroine article.

In the interview I was referring then (back in 2010) Kishi states the following:

I have been told by other people that Sakura isn’t acting like a heroine, or that Hinata is more of a heroine than her, but if I think of it Sakura really has the strength of a heroine inside her, and from here on out she’s ready to show it, too.

He has been told by other people that Sakura isn’t acting like a heroine. A lot of people translated that as Kishi saying that Hinata would make a better heroine, so then I double checked with a childhood friend of mine who was in Japan & an old Japanese fan himself on the NS forums. That was the correct translation.

That he has been told by others, not that he said it himself. But you see, fake stuff is so easy to spread nowadays.

Now, keep this in mind while we go further on that statement.

Using a mail magazine within shueisha the editors even circulated the news about sakura being voted most hated character overseas They even sent it with the video showing sakura being voted most hated with the email magazine

Now, put this a bit in perspective with The Last: it was the most advertised Naruto movie, because it was directed clearly at the overseas audience.

Plus, we also have that video thing in there. But what videos could this person be referring to, right? Could it be Youtube videos from overseas??

Well, at first it might sound something baseless. But then again, in another interview with Kishimoto, you can connect the dots.

When Naruto ended, he and Hiroaki Samura had a talk about their mangas in a interview taken by Samura.

In that interview, at some point there’s an interesting information that appears.

Samura: Going with ninjas turned out to be a brilliant move, though — the ninjas in Naruto even managed to really hook the ninja lovers outside of Japan.

Kishimoto: Exactly — I was surprised by just how much people outside of Japan liked ninjas. Although, even overseas, there’s… well, I’ve seen reviews of Naruto by people abroad, and one of them was this guy who really hates it. So I was watching this video on YouTube or something of him sitting there talking, and the wall behind him is just covered in Blade of the Immortal posters. (laugh) Wish I could brag to that guy that I’m talking one-on-one with his beloved Samura now. (laugh)

What information do we extract from here? Well 1) Kishimoto was unaware of the popularity Naruto had overseas and 2) he’s seen YouTube video reviews of his work.

But then, if Kishimoto was unaware of Naruto’s popularity outside of Japan, it means that someone had to make him aware. Ergo, enter his editors. Ergo enter Youtube “reviewers”. Ergo enter the ugly world of the Sakura hate.

Because as we know it and see it even today, Sakura is widely hated in the west, sadly.

The next part of that initial Twitter says the following:

During the pain arc they apparently sent a questionnaire out that asked which one do you think is the heroine – sakura or hinata? And apparently hinatards sent lots of comments about how hinata already confessed and yet Sakura is a bitch for still hugging naruto And that’s how they picked the heroine A lot of hinatards also sent threatening letters to shueisha stating they want nh Hinatards also tried to get petition signatures in front of animate and where warned to stop So that’s why it went this way Pressure from editors and hinatards and s fans not knowing so they couldn’t counter the lobbying of the hinatards

You’d say that eh, this can’t be right? But then, let’s put it a bit in perspective.

In Kishimoto’s interview with Kobayashi it’s stated that:

Kobayashi asks if there was a lot of Sakura hate, and Kishimoto says there was, and even young girls told him they hate her.

Now, pair this (and other things we can extract from that interview) with our day to day interactions with NaruHina/Hinata fans even nowadays.

How does their MO work? They track you down, hunt you and bring their other likeminded fans to do the same to you, making sure you hear their opinion, making a lot of noise about it and everything else.

Now, put all of the above in perspective, like I said. Does that statement seems fabricated to you now or does it seem quite close to the truth?

Of course, like I said, this at most it’s speculation as there is no real proof and the person who posted this is long gone.

But if you put their statements into perspective and connect some dots here and there, it doesn’t seem just speculation anymore...

So yeah, I hope this answers your question regarding the Sakura hate. :) And, by extension, NaruSaku as well...

It’s ironic because in this case, it’s the bullies who won. And for a culture that so much preaches about not bullying, well, it sure seems hypocritical.

But oh well, it is what it is...

#masashi kishimoto #sakura haruno #naruto #narusaku #anti-hinata hyuga #anti-naruhina #fandom drama

57 notes · View notes

truelovevoltage · 6 years

Text

OTBS: Break Up

“Anonymous said: for otbs, mc has to go to america for x reason (like she's transferring departments or something) but instead of telling him that and doing long distance, she breaks up with him. tsumugu, shusei, & kaoru”

Requested: Yes

For: Anon

Prologue

You have been in a meeting with Akiyoshi today. You weren’t sure what the talk will be about. You don’t remember doing anything major for an article nor bad that will cause the growler to call you in. It was easier for you to prepare for the worst. “Ah Y/N. The person I wanted to see. Please take a seat.” He fixed the papers on his desk as you sat on the chair. “I would like to promote you to our new branch in America. I can see a lot of potential in you and I think you can be the new chief editor.”

This was big news to you and you couldn’t believe it. You were still in shock. “Wait, is this for real? This isn’t a prank right?” You asked in disbelief. You were really happy about the offer. “Y/N, you know I wouldn’t joke about something like this. I know you will need time to think about this but I hope you accept it. It’ll be a good experience for you.”

A day has passed since Akiyoshi broke the news down to you and you’ve been thinking about it lately. It’ll definitely good for your future but, were you ready to leave your boyfriend? Will the two of you still be together if you went away? Shaking all of these thoughts, you went to Akiyoshi’s office to tell him that you’ll accept the offer. “Please, don’t tell anyone about this. I’ll start packing my things and I’ll be out of your way. You can even tell them that I quit the company but please… Don’t tell anyone.” You begged him. He didn’t quite understand why but he agreed to your conditions.

Shusei Hayakawa

“You’ve been acting weird Y/N, is something bothering you?” Asked Shusei. The new of you getting a promotion still hasn’t fully sunk in yet. You wanted to act normal about it but it seems like you weren’t able to hide it at all. “Noting really. Should we go on a date tonight after work.”

“That’s a great idea Y/N!” Shusei was excited about the upcoming night. There isn’t a day where he doesn’t think of spending quality with you. You, on the other hand, was stressing out about how you’ll tell him that you want to break up. No matter how many times you practice what you’ll say, it seems that you can’t find the right words to convey.

It was now six o’clock, and your date with him is about to start. He took you to the fireworks show tonight. The thought of going to the festival together and then watch the fireworks sure does sound romantic. You felt horrible how this date will end. Since this is your last date with him, you wanted to enjoy it as well. You tried street food that food vendors were selling whether they were savoury or sweets. As long as Shusei was having fun, that’s what really matters.

Near the end of your date, it was time to tell him. “Shusei, thank you for this wonderful day but we need to go our separate ways.” You avoided your gaze. “Why? We live in the same house anyway, it’s only natural if we go home together.” He beamed.

“No, that’s not what I meant. I’m breaking up with you Shusei.”

“W-What are you talking about Y/N? Is this some kind of joke? Cause this isn’t funny.” He murmured.

“I’m not joking Shusei. I don’t think we have chemistry anymore. Why bother dragging this relationship any further when it’s already going downhill.” You wanted to scream out that you were just kidding and apologize to him but that wasn’t the case. This is what’s best for the two of you.

“So that’s it? Our relationship meant nothing? I can’t believe you. Don’t worry about going separate ways tonight nor sleeping in the same house. I’ll go over to Minato’s and explain to him our situation.” He turned his back towards you and walked away. You could only watch him from afar, and when he was far enough you finally let your tears out.

Tsumugu Kido

The day after you received your news, you thought you’d have lunch with Tsumugu. “Hey, want to have lunch together?” You smiled. You hated how after this, you’ll break things off with him and you weren’t prepared to see his sad expression. It was a wonderful day to have lunch with him.

Once the two of you sat on a table, you two happily ate your food. “Is somethin’ wrong Y/N? You’ve been quiet this whole time.” He asked. “Tsumugu, I think we should break up.” He looked at you with shock. “Y/N did I do somethin’ wrong? Why do you want to break up?” He asked worriedly.

“No, not at all! But I think it’ll be better for the both of us if we just break things off. I don’t want you to feel like I’m holding you back.”

“Are you sure you’re not talkin’ about yourself? You’re just sayin’ this cause I’m holdin’ you back, aren’t you…. I see how it is if that’s what you want then so be it.” He stood up from his seat and made his way back to the office. And with that, you’ve made your decision. You’ll be leaving tonight.

The following day, you were nowhere to be seen but it didn’t bother Tsumugu. This is what you want and he’s not going to stop you from it.

Kaoru Kirishima

As usual, he was really quiet but when it comes to you, he’s very observant. You weren’t at your desk and he began to wonder where you were. You weren’t at the house and he thought that you just went to work early. He waited a couple of more minutes but you never came.

Kaoru couldn’t concentrate at work because he didn’t know where you were and if something bad happened to you. He tried to ask Akiyoshi if he could go home early. “You’re not your usual self Kaoru, you can go home and get some rest.” He smiled. Akiyoshi felt terrible for hiding your job offer to him, but there’s nothing much he can do.

Upon his arrival at home, he came across a letter addressed to him. By the looks of the penmanship, he could tell that this letter is from you. He quickly opened the letter.

“Dear Kaoru,

By the time you read this, I’ll be out of your life forever. I’ve quit the job at Shiki Publishing and I’ve moved out of the house. I’m sorry for being a coward and not being able to say this to you face to face but our relationship is not working. The love that I used to feel for you is not there anymore. I didn’t want to be unfair to you, I guess what I’m trying to say is… I’m breaking up with you, so please be free and don’t look for me. You’ll always hold a special place in my heart and I’m sorry I ended our relationship like this. Please Kaoru, find a new love because I know for sure that I’m not able to give you the love you’re looking for.

Yours truly,

Y/N”

He crumpled the paper and tossed it in the trash. He couldn’t believe this. How could you just leave him and write a letter saying that you don’t love him? He knew better. He knew that everything you said in the letter was a lie, you were hiding something but he’ll give you time to and space to figure this out. One thing is for sure, he’s not giving up on you.

#Shusei Hayakawa #Tsumugu Kido #Kaoru Kirishima #OTBS #Our Two Bedroom Story #Our Two Bedroom Story Headcanon #OTBS Headcanon #voltage inc #Voltage Headcanon #Voltage Headcanons #Otome #Otome Headcanon #Otome Headcanons #Truelovevoltage #Truelovevoltage Headcanon #truelovevoltage headcanons #truelovevoltage posts

55 notes · View notes

thecorteztwins · 7 years

Text

@survival-cfthe-fittest I'm sorry this took so long! I definitely did think of it every day, but I didn't have time/energy/proper state of mind to actually write it out each day DX It's really really long, not because you need it all but because I'm SUPER wordy and HAVE A LOT OF THOUGHTS and actually wrote more than this but trimmed it down because you asked for advice not a novel. Anyway.

All of this is mere opinion. Do not think of it as fact. And do not think of these suggestions as mandatory. Think of it more like a menu. You look at it, order what you like, and don't bother with what you don't like. I can be absolutely wrong, and if you think I am, you're under no obligation to take all or any of the advice offered. It's simply the perspective of a single person, who is no more an expert or authority than any other. I also really, really want to emphasize not to feel bad. Not only is everyone always learning and growing as a writer, you're already far far ahead of most people just in being open to help (I could name some published writers who refute all criticism, even ditched their editors, and their work went downhill BAD) and you're also trying to tackle a really difficult thing here. This is a REALLY common problem I see in both RP and published work. So don't think for one single millisecond that having this issue in any way makes you a "bad" writer, it does NOT. Literally every single writer, including the very best, has shit they can get better at. And you've got a head start on getting better by starting before publishing! So this is a good thing! The other thing is that it may not even be totally accurate. I don't read your every thread. I actually DO NOT read people's threads, I'm just...not into that for whatever reason. It's more based on stuff I just accidentally have read while scrolling. So if you feel I said you do something that you DON'T do...you're probably right about that and I'm probably wrong/mistaken/saw one incidence and thought it was a regularity. And we also may have differing opinions on Apocalypse's portrayal and what's best suited for him, so if you see something and say, that's not how I see him, go with your interpretation, not mine. I'm trying to help you write what YOU want, not what I want, but I'm human and have biases even when I think I'm trying to give objective advice. I decided to break this down into three parts. The first part is what I think the problem is. The second is why I think it's happening. The third, which is the longest, are suggestions for solutions. You don't need to take every suggestion. I give a lot of different ones because different things work better for different people, and one might work better for you and what you want than others. It also means that if one suggestion doesn't work for you, you have others to choose from. Also, don't feel like you need to follow a suggestion to the letter; maybe you modify it to suit your needs or to cover something I failed to! The first part, the problem, is Apocalypse frequently crossing the line from angst to wangst...or the line from sympathetic to angsty, depending on how you define these terms. He will frequently bring up his personal tragedy to others, detail it at length, and often very swiftly. He comes off as quite EAGER to tell people, including enemies, how much he's suffered. That, or he makes a big deal out of how persecuted and lambasted he is by the heroes, as if they're just big bullies and he's a misunderstood victim they just hate for no reason; for instance, I remember scrolling on my dash and seeing him talking to a Rachel Summers. Within simply four notes, just four, he had said something along the lines of WHAT WOULD YOU KNOW, YOU'RE THE PRETTY PRINCESS AND IM THE UGLY OGRE. It comes off as him and you just wanting everyone to pity him and fawn over him and feel bad. Now, there are people like this. There are real people who feel that their own suffering makes them entitled to do what they want without consequences, and that anyone who tries to stop them is a bully who just doesn't understand. There are people who will try to squeeze pity out of everyone at every turn, and will use tactics like this, will play the victim, will make a big fuss out of how I HAVE SUFFERED AND YOU ARE SELF-RIGHTEOUS AND THINK I'M JUST A DRAGON TO BE SLAIN and blah blah blah. And this can make for a very good attitude for a villain to have, because that mindset lends itself perfectly to villainy. But I don't think it's what you want with Apocalypse. People like that aren't tragic to audiences, they're petty and obnoxious. This is more Fabian territory than anything else. And that's why it's a problem---it's not going to get you what you want from readers. I can honestly say that if I were reading a book and a villain displayed this attitude, I would hate him more, not less, regardless of what happened to him in his past. In real life, people are owed sympathy for terrible things that have happened to them, regardless of who they are or how they handle it. But with fictional characters, it's different. A character has to earn sympathy from the reader. This is why it doesn't work when many writers try to get sympathy by just tacking on abuse, angst, a tragic past, etc., to their character, be it the hero or villain. I once talked to someone who said she felt her character would be boring if she didn't give her a horrible past. But the thing is, just having the tragic past doesn't fix that. If your character is boring, then giving them a tragic past just makes them a boring character with a tacked-on tragedy. It's a cheap trick, and it does not work. You still have to do the work as a writer. You still have to make them interesting and engaging. Similarly, a character with a perfect life can be the most interesting character ever if they're written well, if they engage the reader, etc. Now, I'm not saying that Apocalypse is boring as you write him. He's not. I'm saying that the same lesson still applies here, that simply having abuse in his background and him bringing it up does not make him sympathetic. You still have to do that in the WAY that you write him. The second part, why it's happening, is simple: You love Apocalypse. And that's not a problem, actually. That's GREAT. You SHOULD love your muse, you SHOULD be invested in your muse, you SHOULD be passionate about your muse. How could you write about someone or something well if you're NOT passionate about them? You feel so strongly about Apocalypse and your interpretation of how you see him and it clearly motivates you AND THAT IS TERRIFIC! DON'T LOSE THAT! It's a GREAT strength as a writer! So, where's the problem? The problem is that since you are so passionate about him and wanting to convey your interpretation, you jump the gun. You want others to see him as you do, because of course ALL writers want their readers to see their characters as they do, but you want them to do it really immediately, ASAP, so they don't have time for any misinterpretations to form. Hence why Apocalypse is so swift to tell others about his tragedy or imply it heavily enough so that they ask. You really, really want other characters to KNOW, so you try to get him to inform them as soon as possibly and as overtly as possible, so that they can understand him like you do, because that's important to you. And again, there's nothing wrong with that being important to you, but doing it this way really won't work that well for many readers, for the reasons I already described. So, what are some ways to do that? That's part three, and here are my own suggestions, based on what works for me: - Don't have him open up so easily or so fast or so frequently. This is your biggest problem I think. From what I've seen, he seems almost eager to tell people that he's gone through all this pain and suffering, but his doing that communicates an image of him that, as I already described, I don't think you want to go for. I don't think you intend him as being a pity-seeker, or as someone who is genuinely looking for help (because he isn't supposed to REALIZE he needs help, is he?) If he's someone who keeps his suffering inside, then have him keep his suffering inside. I'm not saying he can never ever open up under any circumstances, but dial it back. Make him more hesitant, make people have to dig instead of him presenting it to them on a silver platter. I think you did this really, REALLY well in the thread with Haven. And I'm gonna break down why/how you did it well, because I think knowing what you did well and why it worked is just as important, if not MORE so, than knowing what doesn't work and why. For starters, Haven approached him as someone interested in speaking to him and about him. He didn't just start spewing his life story at her. In fact, he avoided it. It took a long time. She kept asking him about himself, and he turned the conversation around on HER. He used his powers to sense HER history and brought that up, so the topic became her pregnancy with the Adversary. He redirected things away from himself and on to her tragedy, so she would be the one on the defensive and distracted from him. I don't know if you realized that was what he was doing, but that's what he did. And it was very good! And turning the topic towards childbirth and lost children gave them some degree of common ground. He may not have had sympathy, but he had a sense of understanding, and ergo reason to feel she might possibly understand his pain in this area in kind (this is also important, not just that Haven understood suffering---everyone has suffered in some way---but in the very specific department of losing a child). So his eventually opening up to her makes more sense than doing it to someone who either doesn't have this common ground and/or Apocalypse doesn't KNOW has common ground. You write him as generally seeing the X-Men as coddled spoiled children who have never known pain and can't understand what he's gone through, so why would he bother explaining himself to them, if he thinks there's no way they could understand? And even if they could understand...they're his ENEMIES. Apocalypse has every reason to think they would just use these vulnerabilities AGAINST him and thus it would be foolish to tell them anything. But Haven is not only not an enemy, she's a powerless human and someone that, since he is probing her mind, he knows is extremely gentle and compassionate pacifist and wouldn't do that. And he probably considers that WEAK, but also not dangerous in any way. So that's another reason his opening up to her makes more sense. And another reason why he should be written as really, really wary of doing the same with X-Men and other "hero" characters; a lot of times it seems like he's just giving this info away to them. And from a tactical standpoint, that's something he should be way too smart for. It also makes sense in that she already had a foot in. Haven is canonically supernaturally sensitive to the feelings of others, most especially their pain, and I played her that way. So it's not just that he chose to tell her, it's that she already could feel it anyway, it's just the REASON for it that was a mystery to her. And he FIGHTS HER every step of the way. He's trying to actively dissuade her and boot her out. He did not WANT her to know. He also argued IN FAVOR of the abuse, justifying it with being how it is nature (to which she countered how even the greatest predators nurture their young, and how that makes them strong, whereas neglect and abuse would make them weak) He didn't try to make himself out as the victim of Ba'al at all. And that speaks much more realistically to the idea of someone who has internalized these views, rather than someone who uses their abuse to try to make everyone feel sorry for them. So obviously this is something you can already do! You just gotta learn to pace yourself and not jump the gun. It takes longer, and I know it's so haaard to wait when you just wanna get to the juicy bits, but ultimately it comes out a lot better this way in my opinion. NOTE: RP is for fun. RP is a release. RP is an escape. So if you're having a day where you just wanna get RIGHT TO THOSE JUICY BITS and WALLOW IN THE ANGST or FROLIC IN THE FLUFF, go for it. Do literally everything I told you NOT to do if it makes you happy. This is a guide more on for when you when you want your A-game going, but that doesn't have to be all the time. Sometimes you just want fluff or angst or crack or whatever, and YOU SHOULD DO IT! There's no editor, no publisher, no wider audience, it's you and your partner and you should do what makes YOU happy. The tips I'm giving here are about when you want to seriously step it up. But you don't have to 'seriously step it up" all the time, or any time you don't want to. Your enjoyment trumps "accuracy" and "quality" and all of that. So don't feel like you have to write in RP as if you were writing for Marvel all the time. When you want to jump straight to the juicy bits, or whatever else, feel free to, and don't feel it makes you a bad writer. We all need escapes. Keep that in mind not just for this tidbit of advice but every other bit too. This does mean that some characters will NEVER find out what's going on with Apocalypse. There are some that he will probably never open up to, because he refuses to trust them or they don't dig for it or he won't give them anything when they do dig (because he has doubtless had lots of people, well-intentioned and otherwise, try to touch his heart over the centuries, he is probably good at avoiding it) And you know what? That's fine. Not everyone needs to have a complete, accurate, and sympathetic view of Apocalypse in-universe. The way a reader sees a character and the way the other characters sees a character are COMPLETELY different things. I think you want the other CHARACTERS to see him as you do as much as you want readers to, and that's why you want these characters informed of this stuff as soon as possible...let that desire go. Let him be ICly misunderstood or not wholly understood. That's natural. That's what applies to everyone in real life. Concentrate on his being conveyed well on an OOC level to muns, not on an IC level to muses. - Think about the abuse from Apoc's point of view. If he is trying to forget the pain or rationalize it, he isn't going to emphasize the agony when he talks about it or thinks about it. He won't play up how bad it was or bad it hurt, he won't try to convey how horrible it was, because that would mean acknowledging and revisiting how horrible it actually was. And if he's trying to avoid that, well...he'll avoid it. Many actual victims of abuse minimize it, they don't play it up, they say the bruise wasn't that big, that it didn't happen that often, etc. In fact, it's a SIGN of abuse that the victim will try to make the abuse seems as small as possible. This is an established thing that professionals are taught to look for. And it's not just when the abuse is going on; one of the biggest struggles that many victims have for YEARS afterwards is accepting how big the abuse actually was and learning to recognize how much they were actually hurt. But sometimes, you write Apocalypse as doing the reverse, he emphasizes how horrible it was, the point he almost seems like he's bragging about it. And that doesn't make him sympathetic, it actually makes him really unlikeable, because it comes off as him thinking he's the biggest victim in the world and everyone needs to feel sorry for him RIGHT NOW. It's a very bratty attitude, and I don't think it's what you're going for. Alternatively, instead of just trying to minimize it, he could be grateful for it, which I think you are going for sometimes, that he's grateful because he believes it made him strong. If he is grateful for it because in his twisted mind it made him strong so it was his father helping him, he will emphasize its pain rather than minimizing, but he would do it in a good way, talk about it like it was some fantastic gift, not as if it were horrible. Which is actually a fuck ton creepier than if he made a big deal about it in a bad way, and shows how mentally warped it made him. - Your Apocalypse also seems to lament that he (he believes) is seen as a monster by everyone. Like I said, I remember a thread with a Rachel Summers where in just four notes, he was saying there was no way she could understand him because she was the beautiful princess and he was the ugly ogre. It came off as very self-pitying, a poor-me everyone-hates-me deal. But I think that's more YOUR lament as a fan of his and less something he would actually be upset about, let alone express in such a way (especially since, again, showing a weak spot to an enemy) I think it would be more in character for him to be indifferent or even take pride in it. I mean, a big thing about him is that he sees himself as "beyond good and evil" right? And he's got a big ego. This seems like a dude that probably does not care for the opinions of lesser mortals. Especially since those same opinions have been applied to him over and over. You write him as having been called a monster a LOT, and he probably has---first for his appearance, but then later through his deeds. You do the things he's done, and the majority of the world is going to hate you. Meaning, he's used to hate, he's used to being called any number of things, he's used to seeing himself as being misunderstood for doing what he thinks is right and necessary. He's used to it on a scale of thousands of years. So, if he's used to it...he's probably got a hell of a thick skin regarding it. I remember reading the advice of another writer who said she finds it completely unbelievable when a character who is meant to be a victim of bullying for YEARS still bursts into tears at the taunts of bullies, because it seems impossible to her that the character would still be so thin-skinned. Especially since showing bullies they have an effect on you gurantees they'll come back for more, so most victims try to make a facade of NOT being effected, even when they are. Also, not to make this personal, but since I do find looking at the emotions of real people helps with writing, and that includes oneself....you mentioned that the nasty things you've said to yourself have made you build a high tolerance for insults and meanness from other people. Just apply that here and imagine that tolerance being built more and more for hundreds and hundreds of years. It might hurt suuuuuper deep down, but the key word is DEEP, not close enough to the surface to be so sensitive about it. He might not even REALIZE the idea that others think of him the "ugly ogre" hurts him. In fact, he might even take pride in it. Consider...what's more powerful, an ogre or a princess? Which character is the "strong" one in the story? The ogre. And power and strength are what Apoc values. The princess is a weak figure that others rescue, the ogre is the threat, and to be a threat, one must be strong. A weak threat isn't a threat at all, after all. Apocalypse might well ENJOY being seen as a monster (or believing others see him that way--he seems to take it for granted that they must) because people fear monsters, and people fear monsters because of the power that monsters have, of what monsters can do to them, and I think that would make "monster" a compliment to Apoc because it's telling him that people are afraid of him and what he can do, proving his power and worth in his mind. So, most likely, Apoc might not CARE about being seen as the monster. Or maybe even be PROUD that he is, and try to further that view. You the writer may utterly disagree with him and believe he's NOT a monster, but resist the temptation to speak through him about how he isn't and how awful it is to call him that, because what you the writer know and what Apocalypse believes should be two different things. I think this also helps play up how sincerely he believes in his doctrine, and how far removed his values are from the standard human morality, that this would be a compliment to him rather than something hurtful. Taking pride in it is is also a lot more dignified than moping and moaning; a character than crumples into self-pity after a single insult doesn't really inspire majesty and awe like Apocalypse should. - Differentiate between what you want and what Apocalypse wants. You want others to see him as sympathetic. But does he? Or does he want them to see him as strong? And being sympathetic and being strong...aren't things I think can co-exist in HIS worldview. After all, why would there be any reason to feel sorry for the strong, right? So he's probably unlikely to tell people things that would make them feel sympathy for him. In fact, he's probably MORE likely to do the reverse, and tell them about his great deeds and accomplishments...which, while great in his eyes, might well be horrific and evil in the eyes of others. But even if they're seeing him as evil, might that not be preferable in his eyes than them feeling sorry for him, as if he was some weakling? So, yes, this will result in a lot of characters seeing him as just pure unsympathetic awful, if he's only telling them the terrible things he's done and never mentioning anything terrible that happened to him. But I think that actually works because, well, remember what Haven said about diamonds being like people? How they have different sides but all those sides are real? In real life, most people will just see one side of you. The side my boss sees is not the side my father sees is not the side my best friend sees is not the side of me that I see. So it's more realistic if different characters have different viewpoints of Apocalypse depending which sides that they see, rather than having the same view pushed on all of them. Which also brings me to the idea that other muses don't need to have a "correct" view of him, or a "complete" view. Like I said, in real life, nobody knows somebody completely. So have Nur inform everyone of his past and why he is like he is, not only doesn't seem like something he'd do, it also comes off as an attempt on the writer's level to make sure that other characters are viewing him the way the writer wants the reader to view him. But the characters aren't the reader. The characters can and absolutely should have incomplete, incorrect, biased, and diverse views about everyone else. So as a writer, don't feel concerned about convincing other muses that Nur is not evil and not a monster and went through lots of horrible things. The characters are not the reader. If Nur doesn't want other people to know what he's been through---and, again, I don't think he would---don't make him tell them just because you want these muses to share your view of him. Be okay with them being wrong about him. I think a lot of Nur's oversharing comes from you knowing how you see him and knowing all about him and wanting other characters to see him "accurately" but it ends up as Nur just info-dumping every crappy thing in his life at people the first chance he gets, which comes off as him wanting everyone to feel sorry for him and as trying to limit the diversity of character viewpoints. - There can be a middle ground between a character knowing nothing about Apocalypse and knowing everything about his loss and history and pain and all of that. A very wide middle ground, in fact. For instance, say they get close enough to see the statues of his queens. They might wander who these women are, why they're immortalized like this. If they dare ask him, he might just say they're his past mates, but not elaborate on anything about them, not name names or share memories or talk about his children or anything like that. Just give a flat answer that technically is true but nothing else. So they're left to just wonder about what his relationship was with these women, if he loved them, how he treated them, why he wanted to remember them, etc. They may never get answers but they do get some additional information about Apocalypse from which to draw their own conclusions. And these conclusions may be wrong, but Apocalypse, not giving a shit about the opinions of others, probably won't correct them if they are. So don't rush to have him tell them everything. Let them come upon bits and pieces on their own, and put together in their own heads what they think. They may have some parts correct. They may have even more incorrect. But whatever they come up with, it's a unique viewpoint to them and will give them a more unique dynamic in how they approach Apocalypse, regardless of it is correct or not, which is more interesting and realistic than making sure everyone knows everything about him. - Consider having him greet the X-Men with taunting rather than with woe-is-me you're-so-mean guilting. Again, when Rachel shows up, he springs that "you're the princess I'm the ogre" thing within four notes, it's an obvious guilt trip thing, it's immediately putting himself in the poor misunderstood victim position and framing the X-Men as judgemental assholes who just hate him. And there are definitely villains I could see doing that. Fabian, for instance, would use that tactic. But canonically, I don't think Apocaypse is that type? You've surely read more of him than I have, so I could be wrong. But check out this section from a comic summary on UncannyXMen.net: "Apocalypse reaches the shore, and begins the climb up a steep cliff face. ‘Whoever you are - you must know I will not yield. For I take sustenance - I take joy - in the struggle with my pain!’ Apocalypse exclaims. ‘Summoned too soon from the embryonic embrace of my restorative womb…I will seek out my Horsemen!’ he boasts as he approaches the building at the top of the cliff and smashes his way into it. ‘I will know why they sought to challenge the X-Men - the great unwashed - on their own initiative’ Apocalypse tells himself. ‘How fortuitous for you, oh, ancientest of adversaries’ remarks Dr Hank McCoy a.k.a. the Beast as he stands with his teammates - Ororo “Storm” Munroe, Bobby “Iceman” Drake, Warren “Archangel” Worthington and Piotr “Colossus” Rasputin as well as X-Factor’s Pietro “Quicksilver” Maximoff. The Beast informs Apocalypse that they took it upon themselves to bring his Horsemen here, to Apocalypse’s former abode. ‘Welcome home, Apocalypse!’ Colossus stands over the unmoving Horsemen - Caliban, Famine and War - as he informs Apocalypse that they are here in search of their comrades. ‘We have reason to believe you know where they are!’ Colossus adds. Iceman tells Apocalypse not to think that his sickly complexion means they are going to take it easy on him. ‘Believe me, children - I would have it no other way!’ Apocalypse replies. " Notice how he doesn't guilt them for attacking him while he's down, he doesn't whine about being cast as the bad guy or the monster, he doesn't justify himself and what he does, he doesn't even object to their actions. He's just like, come at me bro. I would try for that more. You may want the heroes to see things from Apoc's side, but Apoc is not the type to feel he needs justification, is he? Heck, having him WANT them to attack him would also be a good way to show firstly his devotion to his beliefs---testing the strong--and also show off his ego in his confidence they can't possibly win - Imagine how having the powers he does would affect his view of himself vs the people around him. I admit, this actually IS NOT a tip about the topic at hand (making Nur sympathetic and realistic as an abuse victim without crossing the line to whiny) but more just one I think is useful in general when playing a mutant, especially a powerful one. I know I've thought about it a LOT with Anne Marie, because she got her powers at a younger age than most, before puberty, and her powers are also pretty serious ones---controlling the minds and emotions of other people. So, how does it shape the view of a child when they can do that, is what I ask myself? How does that much power over other people that early in life shape who she is now? Let's take a look at Apocalypse's situation. He's born obviously different from everyone else, that's got to produce feelings of strangeness and isolation. Even if everyone else had treated him well and accepted him, he'd still likely feel that way, because it's natural to wonder 'why do I look like this'? And unlike modern mutants, he wouldn't have an explanation. He doesn't know what a mutant is and neither does anybody else. But then come the powers. I don't know when he got his powers, but they're a lot bigger than Anne Marie's, and he's now had them for thousands of years. So for thousands of years, he's had these immense abilities that could crush others with a mere thought, destroy with a whim, etc. How does shape how he looks at and relates to other people? I feel like it would end up isolating him more, because he can no longer look at others as equal, he can't engage with people as equals knowing that, if he felt like it, he could just rip them apart as easily as blinking. You can't have arguments with people like that, or learn to respect them, or any other number of normal things that are a part of ordinary human experience. And even though he may have hated himself as a freak, I also feel that it's hard after a certain point not to look down on others as well. He has all this power, and they don't. He can do things they can't, survive things they can't, he doesn't age, he's like a different species and they're clearly the weaker ones. It would be lonely, and yet, at the same time...it's got to give you an ego too. Especially since, again, he would be the only one of his kind he knew of, he wouldn't know other mutants, so his best explanation would probably be, as others thought, that he was a god or demon or an offspring of such, or that he'd been blessed in some way. So he'd either be thinking of himself as something other than human, and thus apart from them and their rules and laws and relationships, or he'd be thinking of himself as blessed, and therefore deserving of these abilities and the benefits they bring, and ergo, everyone else is undeserving, so he's better than they are. It creates a blend of loneliness and ego, of feeling separate but also feeling everyone else isn't good enough, and I think you've been playing this up pretty well, actually. I just figured this might be some more food for thought to help you even more. Another thing is that his long lifespan probably makes him that much more indifferent to others---they're gone so fast, what do they matter, and it's not like there's not a million more like them. Or maybe you think Apocalypse would handle all this in totally different way than I'm describing---which also fine! Just, think about it is all, because his existence, both in his longevity and his power, are so different from our own, I feel like it must create a really unique perspective on his part, and thinking about what that is will probably help your overall portrayal, not just this one aspect of it. - And finally.... ....even if your portrayal is absolutely perfect in every way and logically should get across everything you want it to...there's still gonna be some people who don't view him as you want them to, and that's not your fault, and you shouldn't worry about it, because there is nothing you can do in some cases. Whenever there's a villain, especially a big and/or important villain, there will always be two camps of people: the ones determined to woobify them into a precious lump with no faults no matter what, and the OPPOSITE extreme. And then there's just the fact that everyone sees things a little differently, different ways of writing effects different people, etc, and some are more different than others for whatever reason. So stuff that GENERALLY works on a GENERAL audience will always have outliers. Don't fret about it. Just do your best. And also don't fret if your best is not PERFECT, or what you necessarily had in your head. I know that this is easier said than done. I beat myself up HUGELY for not being able to get what's in my head properly on to paper, because I know I have good ideas if only I could just CONVEY them well. It drives me nuts. I am sure it drives you nuts too. I think it drives anyone nuts who writes. And I don't have any secret to making peace with it, besides to just keep working on it because it's something you love and enjoy, and be proud of the progress you do make instead of ashamed of the progress you haven't yet made.

#survival-cfthe-fittest #rp stuff

5 notes · View notes