y-rhywbeth2

[y-rhywbeth2]

Considering the Dead Three as a whole make up a whole that was once a united religion (one that they inherited) I'm surprised there's no material on syncretism between the Banite, Myrkulite and Bhaalist faiths. Cyric and Bhaal were briefly syncretised as Cyric-Bhaal when the Black Sun took the reins as god of murder. It wouldn't necessarily be merging the three into one god (might as well worship Jergal if you're going to do that) but worshipping them as a trinity whose portfolios are intrinsically linked. Plus the fact that Faerûn is inherently and incredibly polytheistic... Maybe a heresy? Sort of like the Order of the Sun Soul syncretised Selûnite, Sunite and Lathenderite faiths as a continuation of the worship of the Netherese sun god Amaunator; or the Dark Moon heresy, which syncretises Sharran and Selûnite beliefs under the idea that they're actually one god. At the very least I'd expect something to have existed early into their career as deities.

Even if the Dead Three opposed that, that has never stopped this kind of stuff forming before. (Mortal churches are not always an accurate reflection of the deity's opinions and wants)

You are, however, likely to get shanked by the main three - separatist - churches.

#Look the Bhaalist view of life and death is intrinsically linked to Myrkul and Bane as life and death and two kingdoms in balance #The foundations of these faiths and their philosophies are inherently linked in origin #Vel would absolutely go in for Dead Three syncretism to Orin's absolute outrage #babbling #the idiot three

[y-rhywbeth2]

If you ignore Bioware's timeline - because the Bhaalspawn couldn't have been conceived during the Time of Troubles because they'd be 10 or younger. (Although BG1+2 being exactly the same, but the villains are 10 is quite funny.) - then the backstory gets interesting. You're locked away from the world for 10 years, your entire world is the temple you were born in and the only people you've ever known are your myriad siblings and the Bhaalist priests. Then one day your parent tries to kill you - did they even tell the Children that Bhaal had died? Or why they were born and why this was happening? Or did they just try and stab them?

(And doesn't that sound familiar, Orin?)

Spoilers:

It would actually make the confrontation with Alianna in ToB less weird if Charname knew her as a mother and was attached to her before the attempted murder and being rescued by Gorion. Because the game tries to act like there's some angle where you'd be mad at Gorion for killing her to save your life and it's...

Alianna, outraged and clearly expecting you to be too: "He killed me! Your mother!"

Charname: "Yes??? Good?? Literally the only thing I know about you is that you tried to kill me!?"

Bhaalist families and their priorities, I guess.

I've always just put Charname's lack of memory down to trauma and coping methods personally. Or Gorion editing their memories. Or both. Also they would've grown up with Sarevok half their life, which is another layer of interesting ideas.

Charname, having grown up loved with their trauma erased: "Who are you?"

Sarevok, having grown up in an abusive household remembering everything - including that Gorion actively chose to rescue them instead of him and remembers Charname just fine: "WOULDN'T YOU LIKE TO FUCKING KNOW."

#This is still not what I set out to research today #babbling #/charname #bg2 spoilers #edgelord hours #long post

[y-rhywbeth2]

BG1, and the Bhaalspawn crisis, kicks off in 1368 DR.

The Time of Troubles started in 1358 DR, so the eldest of the first Bhaalspawn (Sarevok, Imoen and Charname included) would've been about 10 when Bhaal died.

And that Bhaal spent the Time of Troubles dodging paying child support or having to help any of his priests raise their kids.

#Alianna: “My Lord Bhaal our child needs help with schoolwork.” #Bhaal: “Oh look I need to go. Do something. Somewhere." #Father of the century! #the idiot three #/charname #/sarevok

[y-rhywbeth2]

I've always wondered about why only Myrkul and Bane were involved with stealing the tablets of fate out of the Three.

Did they just not invite Bhaal (who was listed as serving Bane at the time, so possibly Bane just took his support for granted or didn't see any point asking "an inferior".)

Or did Bhaal - unlike Myrkul - have the sense to go "Bane this plan is suicidal, you don't plan for shit, and I'm not running around after you trying to keep the backup plan together when Ao gets pissed at us. Also I'm busy planning hook ups and orgies with my followers rn, fuck off." It helps that Bhaal knew his prophesised death was coming up, so if Bane did come at him with this plan Bhaal would possibly be able to identify it as the potential cause of his death and go "nope". (And then Bane makes a mental note to kill all Bhaal's assassins someday, because he's petty.)

#Bane is surprisingly impulsive and disorganised for Lawful Evil #babbling #the idiot three #edgelord hours

[y-rhywbeth2]

“Those gods who do not wish to go along with your plans will be enslaved or destroyed, I assume,” Myrkul said suspiciously. “And you will use Mystra’s power to accomplish this.” “Of course,” Bane said. “But we are already allies. Why speak of such things?” “Indeed,” Myrkul said.

Myrkul: Bane is an untrustworthy idiot who will inevitably betray me and - more importantly - can't plan for shit in a way that drives me absolutely insane with rage. Myrkul: So obviously I will ally myself with him and go along with this plan he proposes.

I would honestly pay for a book that is nothing but the Dead Three locked in a room with each other. I remember nothing concrete from the Avatar series except for Myrkul suffering Bane's company and Bhaal suffering the consequences of those two idiots (I live forever with the scene of Myrkul, nursing a headache, threatening to drop Bane down a ravine if he doesn't stop screaming in his ear).

#And tbh I don't particularly care about anything that happens in that series except for those scenes. Blah blah plot: gimme the trainwreck 3 #I'm actually looking for something specific in these books but I AM easily distracted #babbling #the idiot three

[y-rhywbeth2]

Player: Examine Gortash's body language and expressions. Can you trust him? Narrator: *You note a flicker in Gortash's eyes. You have already destroyed that which he held dear. His promises are empty ones.*

Huh, never saw that before. It's from completing the side quest to shut down his plan and free the Gondians from the Throne: I assume "that which he held dear" means his Steel Watcher operation, not the building itself (The Iron Throne was gone long before he was born).

It's an interesting wording, I like the emotional investment that went into the Steel Watchers and this world domination plan. Something something abusive childhood marked by shame and lack of control, and pride in his adult accomplishments reclaiming those things.

#Hurting Gortash's feelings twice over as Durge #Just stepping all over them #(This isn't anywhere close to what I was looking up today how did I meander all the way over here) #babbling #/gortash #villainous nonsense

[y-rhywbeth2]

OK, so apparently we mustn't pick up salt shakers around Astarion:

"The folk habit of tossing salt over one's shoulder to ward off evil or misfortune has no direct usefulness against undead, but it is born of tales of fleeing adventurers tossing salt behind them at pursuing undead. Contact with even a handful of salt will cause undead who have a tangible presence to recoil for one round (the contact will cause the salt to be consumed, in cold, non flammable "blue flames"). [...] Vampires especially fear salt, and will seek to slay any beings carrying it."

On the other hand I do kind of want to do a challenge run where you have to kill Cazador using only table salt. (It only does 1d4 damage per pound, so that could take a while. Or some strategy... maybe if you open a portal to the Quasi-Elemental Plane of Salt. Yes, that exists.)

(Salt also nullifies vampiric powers if poured over their grave, which is more useful.)

#Starting to think I should add specific lore tags #Vampire tag will be “the salt haters” or something... Hmm. It's a work in progress... #lore stuff #/astarion

[y-rhywbeth2]

"Another talent [Greater Vampires] may employ is to summon minor demons to serve them for up to 24 hours." - Lords of Darkness

Oh, I forgot that.

Hey, Lord Ascendant, where are the infernal minions? I'm just saying that would've been helpful during some fights and I expect infernal minions on demand in that playthrough now. Double check the contract: "If you are a vampire and have recently been altered by Forces of Darkness(TM) you may be entitled to your very own minions of Hell."

I want a pit fiend.

I don't think the Ritual of Ascension was based on Greater Vampires in the slightest (also demons and devils are different things), and the writers probably don't even know about them, but hey. Free minions.

#Is it like that “nocturnal horde” and the bloodshed that you promised #AND THEN NEVER DELIVERED ON #babbling #/ascended astarion #edgelord hours

[y-rhywbeth2]

...ok, so I confused the reflection lore by remembering a different bit of old D&D lore (like, AD&D old, I think. Possibly 1e?) from another source. My bad. I should double check before talking.

FR vamps do not have reflections. But the good news is that you can use illusion magic and/or enchant mirrors to reflect them:

"Jonathon has been screening the adventurers who frequent the inn to try to find a party tough enough to deal with the threat. He will not give away the fact he, himself, is a vampire. And a magic mirror in his establishment helps his ruse; it is magicked so that Jonathon casts a reflection in it."

#lore stuff #/astarion #happy birthday to spawn astarion #gift him a magic mirror and a bottle of liquid night

[y-rhywbeth2]

Have they restored Gortash's Durge-specific dialogue lines yet? I kind of want to play, but I'm still holding off until I can do the proper Act 3 divorce arc. What even is the point without "I always liked you too"? What even.

#Listen in my head there is a very detailed nervous breakdown in that study after the fight with a high risk of Durge relapsing. #Going back to villainy - the role they BELONG to - because they still have the netherstones. Their plan doesn't have to be a waste. #Even if Father has disowned them and everyone is dead. #It's very melodramatic and it's not the same without that interaction OK? #I still get jittery from serotonin from that #HE HESITATES #babbling #/durgetash #the garbage men

[y-rhywbeth2]

Scouring a Q&A archive for realmslore, as I am wont to do, and seeing people being semi-officially (officially?) directed to Lords of Darkness when they ask about Realms-specific undead lore even in the 5e era is amusing, and also validating (I love that book. I love how creating tomb guardians/mummies works in the Realms: it's so fucked up. I love the Bhaalist mummy and his relationship problems. I want my Bhaalist to get mummified.)

But anyway the concept that that lore holds in 5e Toril is darkly hilarious to me for reasons, because you'd be applying this to BG3:

Greater and Lesser vampires: Toril does in fact have rare daylight walking vampires! They're created when a succubus kills you by kissing you (ie draining your life force and consuming your soul during make out sessions/sex) and then your corpse rises again as a soulless undead horror that can walk in sunlight. Other than the daywalking a greater vampire is exactly like a normal vampire.

And I'm just... You can get your soul eaten by a fiend in game: can you imagine Astarion's reaction if - after being dumb enough to get fucked to death by Haarlep I know they don't kill you in-game, humour me - you came back as a vampire able to walk in the sun right off the bat? Either he's going to be insanely envious (why do you get everything he wants through an act of terminal stupidity), or he's going to be extremely put out that he isn't special. "There are no vampires like me" Are you sure babe? Bet?

Also as far as Toril is concerned with undeath in its own setting: undeath is evil, as are all of it's sources and all acts of inflicting it upon somebody (except for Baelnorn), but the undead are people and a bit more complicated. Not necessarily terribly nice people, who are monsters and sometimes have to do horrible things due to their nature, but they have control of their actions do damage control and decide not to be total bastards. (Most are total bastards). There are folk stories and legends of protective ancestors and helpful undead, and some undead hunters are wont to let "sleeping undead lie" if they're not bothering anyone. Interestingly I also saw something today that some undead hunting is actually done by undead, who don't appreciate other, less pragmatic and/or morally inclined undead being more evil and destructive than they need to be ("‘nuisance’ undead") and risking encouraging hatred/fear of the undead and angry mobs amongst the living: do you mind, some of us are trying to unlive in relative peace here. How is a Lich supposed to study with clerics breaking down their door, you animals?? Different source again, but D&D's token "good" vampire is a Torilian native (and by "good" I mean Chaotic Neutral and messy, and currently being warped and tormented by the Dark Powers of Ravenloft who enjoy a good chew toy). Toril does have another "good" vampire in official material, but he's been cursed to be Lawful Good and would explicitly go back to being a monster if you lifted that curse, so methinks he doth not count.

#babbling #/astarion #Jander and Jonathon are both elves oddly #Why are all the potentially non-evil vampires on Toril elves

[y-rhywbeth2]

"Myrkul [compared to some gods, is autonomous] obeys no one but is influenced by Bhaal and Bane..."

I love this weird connection the Dead Three have with each other and how it never seems to go away completely. I don't think co-dependency is quite the word for it, but they're just utterly toxic for each other, keep fucking each other over, and somehow they keep coming back to this alliance. For some reason the opinion of the others holds sway!

Like Bane is... Bane. He thinks he doesn't need anybody and everyone is subservient to him! He's allergic to his own capacity to enjoy things or feel emotional attachments to people. He just fundamentally can't compute when he cares about someone. Why is he upset they're dead? Bane doesn't know! He also only got as far into the Time of Troubles as he did because he has Myrkul backing him up. He still kind of depends on the other two and at least once upon a time had respect for Bhaal.

Bhaal needs the other two to keep his murder hoboing in check, and they seem to be the only beings in the universe who can (or are permitted by Bhaal) to do so. Myrkul left him unsupervised for a week once and Bhaal ended up getting distracted trying to kill winged ponies and then got killed, ruining his and Myrkul's plan.

Myrkul, by all accounts, is shooting himself in the foot every time he agrees to work with these idiots and he keeps doing it. Some descriptions have assigned gods mortal-like feelings, wants and needs, so like, is he lonely or what? Myrkul's charisma is abysmal by mortal standards; by divine standards a landfill of rancid trash has more appeal (he spent the last stretch of the Time of Troubles in a sewer, talking to zombies and himself). Bhaal is basically his only friend in existence (Bane is... there. Myrkul doesn't exactly like him, and yet he still works with him.)

The last time these idiots cooperated Bane destroyed Bhaal's worshipper base and got himself killed and thus left Myrkul in a mess, then Bhaal got killed due to murderhoboing and left Myrkul even further in this mess, and somehow the 15th century rolled around and these three agreed to work together again. Working together worked so well last time! What is wrong with you.

#I'd say please just break up but tbh whatever's wrong with them is funnier #the idiot three #and whatever the fuck is wrong with them and this relationship #long post

[y-rhywbeth2]

"Some of [Myrkul's] worshippers are powerful undead (liches, vampires, and the like), whom he works with and champions the aims/causes of."

I'm enjoying that implication that greater undead can call up Myrkul and be like "I have an evil plan!" and Myrkul absolutely loves these evil plans and is happy to fund them. Old Lord Skull supports your dreams of becoming a dread tyrant, little vampire/lich/mummy/whatever!

Hm, I wonder if the Myrkulite reverence for the undead is something they picked up from their god? Myrkul why do you prefer the dead to the living. What was your childhood. What is your damage.

#He is goth; he is so power hungry that being crown prince wasn't good enough; he doesn't like the living; he reveres the undead; #He removed his own organs “for science”; he has no social skills... #the idiot three

[y-rhywbeth2]

In terms of religion, vampires apparently either throw in with Myrkul (most undead with religious inclinations go for him, apparently) or there's this phenomenon that tends to occur amongst the random non-deity worshipping cults that sometimes crop up (like beholder cults):

"There are vampires [in the Realms] who worship powerful undead they don't really understand, because that undead being helped them once (in hopes that said being will help them again)."

Vampires: "We have no real idea what this eldritch dark force of death is, what it wants, or what the ultimate price it asks of us will be, but it does things we like when we press the button, so we'll keep pressing the button!"

#There is a certain degree of sheer blind stupidity that gets installed with the fangs and the bloodlust when you become a vampire #Or maybe it just uninstalls your common sense to make room for more ego and ambition and desperation #babbling

[y-rhywbeth2]

"Portfolios are [a mortal's] way of trying to understand what genres/fields of endeavour/concepts/professions/topics [the gods] seek to dominate, [...] "Lord of the Dead" is one of these. All deities compete, and Myrkul, Kelemvor, Velsharoon, and Bhaal are all "fighting for turf" here. So too, could Jergal be, if he was interested in fighting." - Ed Greenwood

I'm so glad to know that these idiots are having as much of a headache over the frankly absurd degree to which death - as a concept - has been divided and passed around to so many weirdos. They deserve it.

Considering Jergal is the one who set up this mess in the first place, I imagine him just watching the others and eating... whatever the equivalent to popcorn is for undead insect people turned gods.

#Divine political bullshit is ever a delight to gain insight to. They're all morons but especially these ones #Entropy VS the Dead VS Undeath VS Death... #lore stuff #the idiot three #/jergal #/withers

[y-rhywbeth2]

...Did not read Vampire of the Mists expecting to walk out with the likely not Realmslore or larger D&D compliant headcanon that Bhaal invented vampirism, but here we are.

Right so there's a solid chance that this was the Dark Powers that govern the Ravenloft setting, and Strahd has multiple backstory variations (I think?) butI mean, gods can present themselves a little differently to different worlds, the slight shift in focus of murder+ isn't that odd. Bane has in fact been dabbling across the planes since pre-Time of Troubles, so the other two idiots could definitely have gotten in on it. And - in one version of this story - the origin of vampirism is a voice that sounds like death, describes itself as:

"...every nightmare every creature has ever had. I am the dark thoughts of murder and treachery, of fear and lust and obscenity and violation. I am the cutting word that kills the soul and the bloody knife that kills the body. I am the poison at the bottom of the cup, the noose around the thief’s neck, the cry of the wronged, and the shriek of the tortured. I am the lie. I am the black pit of madness. I am Death and all things worse."

(And you know, Bhaal definitely has lust, obscenity and violation going for him recently. And a little earlier, what the fuck is with the attraction spell sir.) and then says use a dagger - wielded by an assassin cult with the name "Ba'al" in it, whose symbol is a bloody skull, who run protection rackets and seek political power - and go commit a murder for me (enjoy it).

And be transformed one of the most deliberately murderous undead - the most human and able to grasp the horror they inflict, sustained by acts of murder, whose instincts work a lot like Bhaal and the Bhaalspawn, tbh.

Like, Toril is part of the background in this novel, but I don't actually think this was deliberate. I am still maybe going to keep the idea on the shelf. But Bhaal, if I find out you've been doing dimensional-temporal shenanigans and created Strahd (and thus, according to some accounts, invented vampirism itself)...

(It's also kind of funny to imagine Bhaal creating the first vampire and amusing himself watching, and then suddenly these mists descend and yoink all of Barovia off the map. "Huh. Weird. Anyway! Hey, Myrkul, look what I invented!")

#Headcanon Bhaal you owe Hexxat and Astarion - and pretty much everyone else - for emotional damages you know this right? #imo undeath suits Bhaal better as a theme than the other two. Bane is life; Myrkul is death; Bhaal stands between the two states #That description also sounds a bit Cyric-y to me #babbling #edgelord hours #the idiot three

[y-rhywbeth2]

Self-indulgent OC moments, but Wyll would be so disappointed to actually meet Gorion's Ward in my Realms. Never meet your heroes, I guess.

It's kind of like if you took the basics of Gortash and Ascended Astarion and distilled them into a 2'11" lesbian hellbent on controlling the world so it can't hurt her anymore, who also thinks failing to return library books should be a criminal offense... I mean as a character she predates them by a decade, but eh.

#On that note have I ever mentioned how INFURIATING it is that BG1+2 don't acknowledge that you're hin in conversations with other hin? #And just because she handles PR better than Bhaal as a death god doesn't mean she's a nice person #She was tyrant of the library as a child. It got worse. #“Everything has its place and function; when things are out of order they don't function smooth- put that book on the right shelf or die." #And then it turned out that the world outside was in fucking shambles and the gods are incompotent and it was like: #“OK so I'm the only competent person on Toril and I need to take control now.��� #babbling #OCs #Solath