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An Interview with Renée Elise Goldsberry (The Interval):

Being in something that’s so successful, there are all the obligations that come with that. Have you had to think more about your boundaries?

It’s strange the kinds of things I’m not doing or saying no to. It’s kind of bizarre. I was just having lunch with Tommy Kail, our director, and he was helping me decide if I was going to say yes to a project, and since I wasn’t going to say yes, how to do that in a way that is appropriate. We kind of laugh like, “What is our life?” And I think that’s just the nature of “it” moments in your life. I’ve spent a long time in my career watching things like this happen for other people, and one of the most awesome parts of being in this business for a long time is just the proximity to really exciting things happening to really wonderful people. And even just from watching A&E Biography growing up my whole life, I was well aware that it’s often not evenly distributed. It’s a lot like the ice bucket challenge [where people were dumping buckets of ice over their head for charity], and that is what success can feel like—one big ice bucket challenge. And there can be frustration in that, since I’m well aware that next week, or three months from now, I’ll have all the time in the world, but this week I can’t [do something] even though I want to do both. But there’s something mature and responsible about boundaries and knowing that I’m only human, and knowing that my first job is to be a mother to my kids, a wife to my husband, and loyal to the job that’s the reason why someone might want me to show up and do something else. That light over there is exciting and shiny, but I said I would show up to my show every night, and I have to be rested enough to do that. So those kinds of choices I marry with wanting to miss as little as possible.

Do you feel like it’s harder to get people to respect your boundaries as a woman? It comes up fairly frequently in interviews that women feel they have to say things with a smile.

I’m sure that’s true. In my twenties I was in a long distance relationship for many years, and he was a great guy and good friend. One of the things that was most valuable about it was that it allowed me to live as a single woman in Los Angeles and have a lot of friends who were guys who were not offended that I wasn’t going to date them because I had a long distance boyfriend. It was a way to say no without any personal offense. I don’t know if it would have been easy to have those friendships, if I had not had this thing that had nothing to do with them that was the reason we weren’t hooking up. I tell you that because it’s one good thing about being in Hamilton right now. It’s something people understand—saying no because you’re in Hamilton. It’s probably the best excuse in the world to not do [something].

As the leading lady of the company, how much thought did you give to what type of presence you wanted to be backstage to help lead the company?

I believe that we don’t get these opportunities so we [can] win huge awards and everyone thinks we’re great. I think we get these opportunities, and are graced with the talent to get in the room, so that you can have the relationships you have with the people you get to work with. That’s what I’m doing there. We get to star on Broadway, and that’s wonderful and I’m very grateful for anything that comes with that, but I feel like my purpose is to love the people I’m around every day. I really believe that. In this moment even, I feel like it’s about something I might say that would be of value to you, or something you might say that would be of value to me. We’re doing an interview, but it’s about being there for other people. What I do grants me access to a specific group of people and an intimate situation where we get really involved in each other’s lives in a way that can really be impactful, and if I ignore that moment because I’m saving my energy for being on stage, I’ve missed the point.

I think something people maybe don’t know about theatre is how much the atmosphere backstage is really determined by the actors.

Oh yeah. And what’s interesting is the atmosphere on stage is most affected by the relationships off stage. That’s what chemistry is. When you come see our show, you’re seeing a group of people walking around each other, rapping and singing and telling a story, that are really in love with each other and dependent on each other to pull it off each night, and that’s as interesting to see as this brilliant story that Lin-Manuel Miranda wrote. That’s what’s so awesome with having him in it. The first love affair that happens for me is with Lin, the actor who I get to play with, and the second is, “You’re a genius, thank you for casting me.” But the first is that we’re in each other’s worlds and I can be in love with his kid and his wife and whatever crazy thing he just said. And that’s how I feel about the women who play my sisters. And that’s how I feel about the ensemble. I can do the job because they believe in me. That’s huge. Before I knew I could do this, they did, and that gives me the confidence to do it.

You have kids. Is there something you think the theatre community can do to improve things for people who are trying to balance working with having kids?

I think what’s challenging is that you can’t put your kids to bed at night. I don’t know what actual rules are in place, but I’ve never worked any place that I didn’t feel supported in terms of having children. A couple of times I’ve had to bring my kids to work, and no one has ever said anything about it. My kids always want to come to work because it’s like a party. I feel like it’s a very friendly place for families and mothers. Even when I had my son and I was breastfeeding, I was doing a workshop at Playwrights [Horizons] and they were like, “There’s a room back here for you to pump.” I was pregnant in The Color Purple, and they were extremely supportive. My challenge was the decision to try to have them, and timing, and auditions. That was always hard for me. I’m trying to get pregnant and [feeling like], “I don’t know if I can say yes to this.” That kind of disclosure about what I was trying to do was such a challenge to me. I found myself having all kinds of conversations with people like, “So I really want to do this, but I also really want to have a baby. And I might have to do IVF, I’m not really sure. I’m not really sure what the timing is going to be. Can you help me?” It was so awkward trying to figure out how to have both things. But I’ve never found myself in a situation where someone has been unloving or not supportive.

The more people talk about all the aspects of it the more helpful it will be. I think we should keep talking about it, because I don’t know if women know that there’s still work when you’re pregnant, after you’re pregnant, when you’re a mom. Can you still be an ingénue when you’re a mommy? And the answer is, yes, because I am.

The term ingénue is so weird to begin with.

It is. But it’s one of my favorite things in the world to do and be, and it’s one of the things I think I’m best at. And I’m grateful that at my age that people will cast me to do it. I was just saying this to one of my girlfriends who was in town from Los Angeles, and her daughter and son are both in the business, and she mentioned that her son had just aged out of a certain campaign because he was too tall and she was like, “He aged out. Aw man!” I was like, “You can’t let him hear you say that,” because I think one thing we have to watch out for in this business is, anything that naturally happens to us as we get older, as we become women or men, is to think that any of those things that naturally happen to us are bad. That’s the challenge and the unwritten thing that you’re always dealing with. “Oh my god, I’m going to get hips.” “I’m going to gain weight when I’m pregnant.” “If I’m married, am I only going to be this?” “Can I tell someone that I’m married?” There are all of these things. You have to decide that you’re still going to live your life. The height of success is not the same thing as personal success, and personal success feeds professional success and trust that you’ll still have a Hamilton.

Do you have a spiritual life and does it affect your work?

Absolutely. 100%. I’m such a strong Christian. I 100% believe in God. I don’t believe I could do anything outside of His strength. I feel like it’s such a gift every single day. I think that there’s something about disappointment and loss that we know we can look to spiritual life for, but I also think there’s something about huge success that I feel even a stronger need to have a spiritual life for. I think everyone, no matter how much people acclaim them, feel that they don’t necessarily deserve it. And when you’re in something like Hamilton, and you’re about to do something every single night that people think is awesome and huge, and you might not think that you can pull it off again, there’s something really awesome in knowing that I didn’t pull it off the first time by myself, so I don’t have the pressure, by myself, of doing it again. That gives me a tremendous amount of peace and confidence. And I’m also really excited about the fact that I know who to thank for every wonderful thing that happens. I’d be kind of lost if I didn’t know where to send gratitude. That’s been a huge source of strength for me.

One of the weird things with success is that it can bring a whole other set of challenges.

It takes a tremendous amount of energy to try to enjoy and really be responsible with all that might come to you in one moment. It takes a tremendous amount of stamina. There are a lot of days where I’m like, “I don’t even want to know the long list of things that I have to do today, since in this moment I don’t have enough strength, enough answers… to pull this off till 11pm tonight.” And the value of a spiritual source is that I am aware that I don’t have to have enough strength personally, I’ll be given what I need in the moment.

You’ve worked on new plays and new musicals. Is there something you think can be done to develop new work better?

I think our union is doing a really good job of talking with producers about what we need to keep producing really wonderful work, and to fund and inspire the artists like Lin and David Lindsay-Abaire and all of these wonderful people. And there are also a lot of wonderful conversations that are happening about how to recognize the actors that are involved in the projects as well. That’s one conversation that we’re having now and want to continue having—how to do both, because there’s not one side to that conversation. We all really need each other. So I’m just grateful that we’re at a moment where we have a reason to talk about all of the things that are percolating in theatre. I’m looking around Sardi’s, and I’m living at a time where I get to work with someone who deserves to have his face right there. Our generation is producing heavy hitters. We don’t have to look back to the golden age to find people who change the world. And we should do everything we can to make sure there are rooms all over New York City that are on fire and kindling all of these great ideas. That’s why you live in New York. Anything our community can do to support that in a fair way, so it can continue, I’m down for.

What’s something you think can be done to improve gender equality in theatre?

We can go see Eclipsed and keep them on Broadway as long as possible. There’s absolutely no reason they shouldn’t be on Broadway as long as Hamilton. We can go see Waitress. Unfortunately, it doesn’t really matter what you say, it’s where you spend your money and your time. That’s the currency that’s calculated and dictates what happens next. I think we need to support the women who are writing and directing and acting and singing—and female protagonists. The better those shows do, the more shows are going to be made, because this is America and capitalism is going to be what dictates what comes next. Go find out the things that are happening that you want to support. We talk a lot about the diversity of the cast [inHamilton], but what we don’t talk about is that they didn’t stunt cast it, they just cast it, and that means a lot to me. I think that something that’s wonderful should be successful because it’s wonderful, and not because it’s starring the Renée Goldsberry who has won ten Grammys or ten Oscars or whatever I’d have to win to open a show by myself. To me, what is even braver than casting a bunch of brown people in a show about the Founding Fathers is that none of them were superstars, and because it works maybe they’ll do it again. It’s the same thing with women in plays and movies—if it works, and people pay money to go see it, they’ll do it again.

lovely interview that discusses process, feedback (& when it’s not helpful), & more

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