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sokkastyles · 1 year

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How much do you feel Zuko is to blame for his part in Ba Sing Se? I've seen people saying what he did there was never meaningfully brought up or addressed, so I'd love to know what you think.

Never meaningfully brought up or addressed?

It's a major plot point that heavily affects the narrative on multiple sides. It's also something that is telegraphed as something Zuko instantly regrets and will regret. It's a pretty classic pyrrhic victory, and part of the reason it's not continuously brought up like some of the other things Zuko did is because Zuko never gets to realize the benefits of it.

Even when he's being pampered back in the palace, even while his father is praising him, even while he's standing in front of a cheering crowd, it's pretty clear that he's not happy, that his victory in Ba Sing Se is based on a lie and something he knows he should not have done.

Ba Sing Se marks a turning point in Zuko's narrative that pretty clearly primes him for redemption, not just because he flirted with switching sides but failed, but because from the moment he chooses the wrong side, he knows, and everyone in the audience knows, that he chose wrong.

That's why it's not continually brought up or reminded to us that Zuko did a bad thing. Because he's already paid the price for it.

I've also talked a lot about how Zuko is manipulated by Azula, which doesn't negate the harm he does by choosing her side, but it does mitigate the gaang's understanding of why he did what he did and their ability to forgive him. Particularly with Katara, who is the person who does continually confront Zuko with what he did in Ba Sing Se. She gets the last word the first time Zuko tries to join the gaang and is rejected, and then specifically brings up Ba Sing Se to the others, and they agree with her, all except Toph.

Katara brings it up again twice after he's accepted into the gaang. But the reason she brings it up is not because Zuko needs to like, do reparations or something, or be continually punished for something that he felt bad about the instant he did it. It's because she can't trust him again after having her trust betrayed before.

Which is why the focus is more on Zuko earning back Katara's trust, and Katara coming to understand that Zuko has genuinely changed.

Katara also comes to understand that Zuko was manipulated and that if he didn't side with Azula in Ba Sing Se, he would have been brought back as her prisoner. This is important for Katara as it relates to her arc with Azula and how that relates to her arc with Zuko. I'll never get over talking about how these three characters are intertwined. Katara goes from having to fight Zuko and Azula together in Ba Sing Se, after feeling betrayed by Zuko and not understanding why he sided with her, to protecting Zuko from Azula when she comes back for him at the Western Air Temple, and finally joining him against Azula, warning Zuko when she realizes Azula is trying to manipulate him again, and finally saving him from her.

Same with Zuko's arc with Iroh and how his betrayal at Ba Sing Se is about accepting Iroh's forgiveness, not about the specific actions he did. It's about Zuko needing to accept that he could be forgiven for his choices just as much as it is about atoning for them, so continually bringing it up as a mark against him would be pointless.

As far as him atoning for the specific actions, I think saving the world should be enough.

There's also the (neglected) parallel of Zuko and King Kuei as leaders that is established in "The Earth King" episode, with Zuko dreaming of being on the throne while being manipulated by a dragon with Azula's voice and not being able to make a decision, while King Kuei's inaction leads to the fall of his city and Azula using the Dai Li to take control. Zuko becoming the leader of his nation and ambassador of peace to the nation he helped to conquer definitely has a symmetry to it, and I think both of them work together and learn from each other post-series.

I've said this repeatedly, but what a character did in the past matters less than whether they've stopped doing bad things and are not motivated to continue doing those things. Once Zuko has proven himself as on the side of good, and once the characters who were personally wronged have already forgiven him, why would it need to be continually brought up?

As Toph points out, there's a difference between holding someone accountable and letting hurt feelings get in the way of making progress towards a greater good.

#zuko #katara #azula #toph #iroh #king kuei #ba sing se

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mytragedyperson · 5 months

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Ok so I've been thinking and... I'm pretty sure Nico always leaves Camp halfblood after book 3. Like, even if Bianca lived, he'd still leave. Because Bianca isn't there, she's with the Hunters of Artemis. She comes beack sometimes but he doesn't know when that will be/ But Nico is always going to find out he's a son of Hades, then look around and realise there's no cabin for Hades, there's no cabin for him, he has no place here, he's not wanted here. And do you realy think they'd build a cabin for Hades at this point? No, they'd just kill Nico and be done with it. Bianca has a place there, she's wanted because she's a hunter of Artemis. But Nico doesn't/ He leaves. If Biance lives maybe he tries to find her to be like "i don't know what to do, there's no cabin for me". If others at camp find out he's Hades' son at this point he's even more likely to leave. Maybe he still runs into Minos and goes through the Labyrinth, this time beacuse there's information about his mum there. He wouldn't be mad at Percy or scared of him because Bianca's alive so he kept his word. he willingly goes with Percy and he still becomes the ghost king. Maybe eventually Bianca finds out he hasn't been staying at camp and gets worried. after all, he's still her brother, she left thinking he'd be safe. also yes Nico is still slightly resentful to the hunters of Artemis for taking his sister at first (because he's 10 in book 3 and his sister is all he has but he doesn't want to admit or doesn't understand that she chose to leave with them) but they eventually have a decision when he's older and he forgives her for choosing to join the hunters and stops being as angry at the hunters. Then he finds Camp Jupiter and brings Hazel back, and then Bianca finds out they have a half sister. IDK do you guys ever wonder if Bianca would've grown to regret joining the hunters? she was 12 with a younger brother who she had to be a parent with and when you're 12 or whatever the idea of being young forever might sound pretty good. but then it's 2 years later and your younger brother is the same age as you and has just brought Hades, Persephone and Demeter to the fight with Kronos and he's not the same as he was. He's been surviving on his own for two years. You've been surviving too but you had people there to help and support you. a year leter your youger brother is older than you, you have a new half sister who's part of a prophecy, your younger brother isn't part of the prophecy but he's involved anyway. your younger brother ends up in Tartarus, trapped in a jar by two titans and you can't do anything to help, you're a hunter of Artemis. Honestly the idea that Biance could live and Nico's character could more or less be the same just lightly kess sad and angry because he hasn't lost quite as much. The idea that we and Biance would watch Nico grow older than her and grow up. They'd barely see each other so when they do it's all the more noticeable that he's getting older. He gets with Will, he has a whole life, one Biance only really sees glimpses of because of achoice she made when she was 12. That's without getting into the whole what if she falls in love with someone. Not even just a man, anyone who's not a Hunter, because they'll continue to grow older and she'll be like 12 for the rest of her life. I'll be honest 12 is not an age I'd want to be stuck at forever

#pjo #percy jackon and the olympians #percy jackson #nico di angelo #bianca di angelo

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cosmicjoke · 1 year

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To be honest, I've always found the Levi and Erwin relationship toxic.

One of them is the "trust" relationship between them.

Levi always trusts Erwin but Erwin deceives Levi and the soldiers for his own dreams, and one of the things that upsets me is that Levi finds out and feels betrayed but continues to trust him because he has no other choice... (Stockholm syndrome?) And I find it shallow that he takes his anger out on Jean and Eren after arguing with Erwin. I wouldn't have thought that someone like Levi would resort to unnecessary violence even if it was about his feelings.

I dont know man, Levi is not only hurt by losing his comrades in the series, he is also betrayed and abandoned by characters who don't do him good (kenny and Erwin) yes Kenny taught him to fight and survive and Erwin gave him a purpose to use his power in better places. I think actions other than that left a permanent mark on him.

I think people exaggerate this relationship, especially the "trust" relationship. He sees Erwin Levi as an equal to his other soldiers and, as I said, deceives them for the sake of his own illusion. Levi, on the other hand, has no choice but to trust, despite his doubts (and betrayal). Is this really a healthy and beautiful relationship?

The relationship between Levi and Erwin is complicated, let's say.

It's obvious to me that Levi feels ambivalence toward some of Erwin's choices and the way he chooses to lead, but he also trusts in his judgement implicitly because he sees Erwin as a visionary and a great leader. But I don't think it's totally fair to disregard Erwin's trust in Levi. Erwin, after all, in the end, chose to trust Levi, above anyone else, with his true feelings and his true motivation. He made himself vulnerable to Levi in a way that he'd never done with another person, and that, to me, speaks of trust as well.

I agree that Erwin's "betrayal" was painful to Levi. Levi lent his strength to Erwin and his cause because he genuinely believed that Erwin, and all of those questionable, morally grey choices he made, was fighting for humanity. Levi's anger after his argument with Erwin, and him taking it out on Eren and Jean, was to me understandable, because he'd just had his entire view of who Erwin was (this man he'd chosen to follow and give his strength to) shaken to the core. Erwin admitted to him that his own, personal dream of finding out the truth was more important to him than humanity. Levi's entire foundation for fighting was crumbling beneath him, he didn't know what to think, didn't know if he'd been wrong for trusting Erwin, and knew also that there was nothing he could do to stop Erwin from joining the operation in Shinganshina, knowing also that it was likely to lead to Erwin's death. So he was upset. And we all know, when Levi's upset, because of the way he was raised, his sort of default is to express it physically and through violence. So I didn't find that moment strange or out of character, or shallow. It was Levi being in a state of deep uncertainty, probably even fear and doubt. Maybe even guilt. He was hurting, and Levi was never taught how to properly express his emotions. You bring Kenny up, and how Kenny betrayed and hurt him too. Kenny never taught Levi anything but how to survive through violence. And then he abandoned him. I don't know how people can really expect Levi to be well rounded or versatile in social graces and niceties when he was raised the way he was.

But to address your other points about Erwin, again, I say it's complicated. Erwin definitely used Levi to some extent, that can't be denied, and that in itself is deeply sad. But Erwin wasn't some heartless monster. Erwin, in many ways, deluded himself about his motivations as much as he did his soldiers. He convinced himself that he was fighting for humanity in order to cope with the guilt he had over the fact he was really fighting for a personal goal. I think the remorse and regret he expresses to Levi in Shinganshina was very much real, and again, he trusted in Levi to essentially save him from that guilt. He knew Levi would make the right choice. He knew Levi would do the right thing. In the end, Erwin gave up his dream by letting Levi choose for him. So, again, I don't think you can say that Erwin ONLY saw Levi as a tool for him to use. He saw him as a friend whom he could trust and rely upon to help him. And Levi did. Despite his own feelings of being hurt and betrayed by Erwin, Levi was able to forgive him and free him from the burden of his dream. He was able to help Erwin become the commander everyone thought he was. And that's also a burden Levi chose to bear on his own, the truth of who Erwin was and what drove him. No one else knew. Just Levi. Levi also bore the weight of other people's criticisms then for letting Erwin die, like Flock and Hange. He let Flock accuse him of letting "personal feelings" get in the way of making the right choice without arguing, because to argue would be to reveal to everyone that Erwin, before his death, was in a state of mental breakdown. To defend himself against those types of accusations would require Levi to reveal that Erwin wasn't quite the perfect, heroic leader everyone saw him as. Levi wanted Erwin's legacy to be in tact. He wanted him to continue to be viewed as a great leader. And I think in the end, Levi himself still saw Erwin as that. He thanks Erwin before he sends him off, and tells him they wouldn't have gotten to where they were without his leadership. And that's all true. Regardless of the reasons why Erwin made the choices he did, those choices are still what got the SC as far as it did. Levi, because of his own, great humanity, saw the burden Erwin bore, in having to make so many awful decisions, and instead of condemning Erwin for being less than honest and less than perfect, he chose to forgive him and acknowledge his great sacrifice and contribution to humanity.

And that's why Erwin chose to confide in Levi. He knew, if anyone would be capable of forgiving him and understanding his weaknesses, it would be Levi, who's the most compassionate person in the series.

#Levi Ackerman #Erwin Smith #attack on titan #shingkei no kyojin

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mrpenguinpants · 3 years

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Spider’s Thread [Reverse AU]

Possessive Red Xiao x Reader

Word Count: 2.5k

Commissioned for: @profoundwitchsalad

Art Credit: @ruoyeahs

Warning: Unhealthy relationships.

Prompt:

“You’ve ruined my life because I have a warped idea of what love is and I can’t live without you. But now you’re trying to leave me and I won’t allow that. You left me alive. You have a duty to live for me and by me. I’m not letting you go.”

---

Xiao Semi Series

[ Friendship ] [ Falling in Love ] [ Cuddles ] [ Protective ] [ Affection ] [ Jealously ] [ Opposites Attract ] [ String Of Fate (Soulmate) ] [ Fainting ]

Link to original posts: [Red! Xiao.] [Reverse AU]

[Masterlist]

Alatus was once told a story by his Master. A sinner who falls into hell is rewarded for his only good deed, choosing not to kill a spider. As his reward, a thread is lowered down for him to climb out of Hell. In the end, the sinner remains in Hell because he kicks aside others and the thread breaks. Alatus doesn't remember why his Master told him this story but he still empathizes with the sinner. He would have done the same or asked for this 'saviour' to extend their hand down instead. That way he could pull them down.

"Xiao? Are you okay?"

He slowly opens his jade eyes to see you hunch over, peering down above him, eyebrows furrowed together in concern as you reach down and softly tap his temple. He allows you to take a moment to do whatever you want with his face before he reaches up to grasp at your wrist gently, holding back on his want to rub circles into your skin. His reminiscing can wait for now.

"What is it?" he asks curtly, sitting up and resting his elbow on his raised knee. You pout at his curt tone but shrug it off as you take a seat next to him and lean your shoulder against his. You dig into your bag and pull out slips of commission papers and hand it over to him to read through what needed to be done today. A few Hilichurl camps needed to be taken care of, sabotaging a slime balloon, all tasks that seem mundane to someone who fought in a war. As he's preoccupied, you take a moment to look at Xiao's face. He's just the slightest bit unnerved whenever you do this because you always seem to know what's bothering someone.

"Were you dreaming of her again?" you ask quietly. The silence is a good enough answer but you nod understandingly. You never knew his Master personally but you did fight a long strenuous battle against her. From one look you could tell she was a manipulative and cruel woman. While it may not be very kind to say, you were glad that with her passing, Xiao would be free from her physically. But mentally...there were still some things to work out. But Xiao was a very reclusive person, especially with his emotions, so pushing him any further would only make him irritated and closed off.

"Venti and Zhongli are joining our party for a bit if that’s alright. They'll help out a lot with our commissions and travelling. I like Liyue a lot but climbing mountains stresses my shoulders out," you laugh as you change the subject to something less depressing. Standing up as you dust your clothes off before turning to Xiao and holding your hand out for him to take. He stares at it hard for a few moments before huffing and reaching over to clasp your hands together.

It has been so frustratingly peaceful since the war ended. He's not used to it and he can still feel the lick of cutting winds and the heavy pressure of rocks against his body when he sees the bard and funeral parlor consultant just on the horizon. If it were up to him, he wouldn't play nice with these two Archons but they're important to you so he bites his tongue until he tastes blood. He knows the Archons do the same. As soon as the two of them spot you both, Venti is already rushing and tackling you to the ground in his excitement.

"Traveler! I haven't seen you in ages. You need to come and visit Mondstadt more," Venti cried into your shoulder as you awkwardly patted him on his back. Always with the dramatics but you cared about Venti all the same. Xiao scoffed before flicking his jade eyes to meet gold as Zhongli stared down at him cautiously. Since the war ended, everyone seemed to have this warped idea that Alatus had some vendetta against the Gods and Celestia but he was fighting because he was told to.

"Xiao. It's good to see you again," Zhongli said to him. Xiao just nodded in acknowledgement. Even with this new mortal form, Morax never bothered to change his eyes. His gaze alone held the weight of the mountains he had thrown. If Xiao hadn’t been under one of them before, he might have crumbled under the pressure.

"Alright alright, Venti. I promise I'll drop by sometime this month but we still have commissions to do!" you laugh as you haul the bard onto his feet and swat his cape down from the speckles of dirt. He grins cheekily at you, linking pinkies with you to seal your promise, before suddenly lighting up as if he just remembered something.

"Actually! Before we start anything, I need to speak to Mr. Zhongli and Xiao. Super important archon things, you know?" Venti nodded to himself as the two mentioned people stared at him with varying levels of confusion. But Venti just waved their worries off and linked his arms with both men as he dragged them off to a more secluded corner with a surprising amount of strength, “We’ll be right back!”

"Do what you need to do but don't take too long," you called after the trio as you trailed off to the side, messing with your bag of commission papers and gear. Xiao hated that. He knows that these two Archons are your...friends.. but shouldn't you be a bit more cautious? Just because they have mortal forms doesn’t make them human, it doesn’t make him human either.

"Hey, there's no need to look so scary. There really is something important I wanted to talk to the two of you about," Venti speaks up as soon as you're out of earshot. It still gives Xiao whiplash whenever he drops the persona and switches back to Barbatos. "Since Morax is the only Archon I trust with this information and, while I don't trust you one bit, you're the one that's with her all the time you should also know. She's ascending to Celestia."

Barbatos gauges both of their reactions. Morax seems visibly surprised, his eyes slightly widened a fraction, while Xiao has no idea what that means. His Master didn’t exactly give him a history lesson on Celestia or Archons, just pointed to who was his enemy and dealt punishments when he failed.

"And what the hell does that mean?" Xiao asks as he crosses his arms. Venti appears for a second as the bard pouts before continuing.

"It's like I said. A mortal who performs great, heroic feats can ascend to Celestia and achieve godhood. Where they will watch over their people from above. I've only seen this once before so it took me a while to recognize the signs. But 1000 years ago, I helped a woman named Vennessa with her ascension and with the traveler's recent actions with winning the war. Well, you don't need me to explain the rest," Barbatos finishes. Zhongli simply hums as he cups his chin and absorbs what's just been heard. He doesn’t seem troubled by the news at all.

"Have you told her about this?" Zhongli questions as he looks towards the direction that you left. Venti shakes his head. “That would mean that she would vanish from this world."

“I know she loves this world. Whether she wishes to ascend or not isn’t my choice but I want her to continue her travels with that beloved smile on her face. But if she does choose to ascend, she will need our help," Venti stares at the two of them in a mix of pride, sadness, and determination. "Can I count on you two for your help?"

It's a complete white noise in Xiao's ears as his surroundings fade out. He thinks he can see Zhongli nod to Venti wishes, the ever calm smile on his face to match the cheery grin on Venti’s. What, now you want to become a God? Leave this world behind? That’s not funny. You made him give up everything. While in your eyes, your blinded hero syndrome, you think you've liberated him from a soulless conquest but he still has nothing. You still took everything away from him and your only compensation was to have him by your side until he left himself. But now you want to leave without a warning? That’s not fair. You don’t get to take back what you owe. He won't allow you to leave him behind.

“Did something happen? Did Venti say something unnecessary again?” you ask out of the blue. Zhongli and Venti had returned to their respective regions once your commissions were all finished. Since the three of them disappeared to talk Archon business, Xiao had seemed even more tense and aloof than usual. As if he was out of it? You knew that everyone was still suspicious of Xiao and they were angsty to leave you alone with him, but you knew Xiao would never do anything to hurt you. When he doesn't answer, you slowly reach over and you subtly nudge his head up onto your lap and look at him curiously. Before reaching down and cupping his cheek. He leans into your touch before turning his face into your palm and leaving a soft kiss. It makes you giggle at the ticklish feeling as you look at him so softly. It annoys him.

"You were never connected to the war and yet you fought against us anyways. Even when I killed so many people, why did you choose to spare me?" he asked as you blinked at him before giving it some serious thought. He went on a rampage and almost destroyed the world. It was fun. He doesn't have any regrets at all because he hated humanity. His own Master was human after all. But then you appeared and stopped him. A random outsider that wanted to play the hero. He thought it was cute. Perhaps he had underestimated the lengths someone would go to to save the world they loved but when he fell defeated at your feet. He said that this wouldn't change a single thing. He would still scorn humanity and what they did to him. He was so sure he would die there but you chose to extend your hand down to him instead despite what your companions felt. Even when the war ended and he had nowhere else to go, you offered him to travel with you. Nothing changed about his mentality, every person that chose to talk to him was quickly scared away with piercing eyes. Every conversation started would end in silence. Every touch would be met by the tip of his spear. But you would link your hands together with his and smile brightly, and he would always end up forgetting his trauma for a moment. You’ve... become precious to him.

"I love this world and everyone in it. You are a part of that world even if you tried to destroy it. It...didn't seem fair to leave you behind when you've suffered just as much," you finish but it only seemed to spark a wave of deep anger inside of Xiao. He quickly lurched up, almost knocking your forehead with his, before grabbing the scruff of your shirt collar and yanking you forward.

"Cut it out with that "love of everything" crap. It's revolting. So you're saying the people I killed weren't worth avenging? Do you think I'm so weak that I need protection? It's one thing to try and please everyone but at least have some awareness would you?" he snarled as he pushed you to the ground. He knew he was being harsh on you and you had every right to walk out and abandon him but you didn't. Of course, you wouldn't. You needed him as much as he needed you. You just reached over and tenderly reached your hand and placed it next to his. Damn it, why is he always the one stuck worrying about you.

"Then you want to protect me, right? Then don't break your promise. You left me alive which means you have a duty to live for me," he takes your hand in his and squeezes hard. Digging his nails into your own until crescents appear and tiny specks of blood appear so you know he's serious. He doesn't care how you interpret his words, just so long as you never leave him.

"Don't die on me, Hero."

It's been a few hours since the conversation so it's pitch black outside but Xiao was never one to sleep. Even if he could, his mind is too loud to fall asleep too. He's startled when you melt against him fully asleep. Honey smooth as you curl up to his warmth and cling to him like moss to a rock. He can feel his cheeks start to flush as his heart begins to pound against his chest. He can't breathe as his world is filtered through each beat that drums against his ears. He's not sure if there's actually something wrong with him or if it's just been a while since someone got so close and his instincts haven't left.

He's just realized it. He's feeling pain. The feeling in his chest is black but he can't claw it away. It's strange in a way that he can't explain it, that he's never felt before, that he's never felt the need to experience. His life had been warped by battle and a constant push to submit to his Master. They are all things he knows but the gentle words that come from your mouth, the bright eyes that hold the world, the horrible ice-hot feeling inside of him is so foreign yet too easy. He doesn't like it.

It makes him feel...clean in a way. Enlightened perhaps? His Master is long gone and it's like you said. He's free now. Free to make his own decisions and live his life how he wants to. He carefully turns over so as to not startle you away as he really looks at you. You look so peaceful in his arms, eyelids shut without worry, face slack without nightmares, breathing so softly against him. If you weren't so close to him that he couldn't feel the rise of your chest, he wonders if he would think you were dead. He stares at the lock of hair swaying back and forth with each breath like a starved man. The strange feeling doesn't stop. He hates it. It's everything that goes against him and what he knows and everything he should want. He's supposed to be the villain in your story, he should kill you right now-

"Xiao..." he hears you mumble beside him as you lean further into his arm. Damn it. How low is he going to go?

“What are you thinking about now? You just need to think about me. Don’t think about anything else...but me” Xiao sighs before he wraps his arms around you and pulls you into him until you're snug against his chest. Close to him, where he can touch you, where you belong. Not with Morax or Barbatos. Not with humans but beside him. He closes his eyes and nuzzles his head into your hair and he stares off into the distance. The feeling never leaves him for the remainder of the night.

"Ah! There you are. I was running around crazy looking for you," he turns his hair to see your flushed form pulling yourself up onto the mountain cliff, "When I woke up I couldn’t find you anywhere! You gave me a scare there."

He hates you. He hates you.

Words of his previous master ring in his ears, almost as if her very soul is wrapping around him as she whispers in his ear how weak he is. Ones with power that refuse to take what they want because they rather live in the comfort of nothing. Be greedier, take what belongs to you.

"Xiao?" you say as his piercing eyes stare directly through you. His Master always told him that she loved him. Even if he hated her he still clung to that false love. Of being wanted. Isn't love for a single person vile? Would feeling such emotions for one person instead of "everyone" bring you down to reality? It's not fair that you've crawled your way into his heart while you walk along in bliss. Now that he thinks about it. It was so simple. He just needs to monopolize your thoughts and love. This time it won't be as friends.

"I love you."

He'll pull you down to where he is. You extended your hand down to hell so it's your fault. He'll drag you down kicking and screaming if he has to. You left him alive. You have to live for him and by him. He's not letting go.

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blessedarethebinarybreakers · 4 years

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Hey!! I've been seeing a lot of posts about how the reason we're having a pandemic, wildfires, locust plagues, etc is because God sent it upon is to punish us. Do you think this is true? I keep telling myself that's not something that God would do, but do you think that's true or not?

cw discussions of punishment, abuse, trauma, illness, disaster, death

Hey there, anon. I do my best to make it clear that I may not be right in any of my opinions, my interpretations of scripture or my understanding of the Divine – but every sinew in my being urges me to give you a resounding “No.”

I’m gonna talk waaaaaay to long here, but the TL;DR is this: God is not a punishing God; these disasters are not inflicted upon humanity and all Creation by God. Bad things like disease often. just. happen – and are often exacerbated by human sin. Those in power could have done more to keep COVID-19 from spreading, and could be doing more right now to aid those in need – their failure to do so comes from their own free will and greed. Human beings are suffering right now both because suffering just happens and because of human injustice, but not because God brewed up this virus to punish us.

______________

When humans undergo catastrophe and trauma, we seek answers – and we favor answers that offer us some small sense of control over what is happening to us. In her book on Trauma and Recovery, Judith Herman notes how children experiencing abuse will often develop a sense of shame and self-blame as a coping mechanism – if it’s their fault that a loved one is hurting them, if it’s a punishment for their badness, maybe they can eventually stop the harm from happening by changing themselves. Obviously, what is happening is not at all their fault, and this kind of trauma response will be something they have to unlearn for future recovery, but it may help them survive in the meantime.

In Holy Resilience: The Bible’s Traumatic Origins, David M. Carr argues that many of the biblical authors concluded similarly: that a trauma happening to them or their people – such as the decimation of the Northern Kingdom Israel and the exile of Judah’s people – is their own fault. They have been bad, and God is punishing them for being bad. This understanding of their trauma gives the people some sense of control – if they amend their ways, they will be restored!

If the fault actually lies with the human beings who violently conquer and exploit, emperors in far-off lands who care nothing for the people of Israel and Judah, well…what hope do the people have of swaying their oppressors? And what hope do they who are so little and fragmented have of forcing those powerful kings to cease their violence?

But, if the person enabling their suffering is actually God, a Being who has expressed deep love for them and established covenant with them time and again? then, there may be something the people can do to end their own suffering.

I respect those who finding meaning and hope in such understandings of trauma. If seeing God’s hand in your suffering helps you get through it, I don’t think I have a right to tell you you’re wrong – unless such understandings lead you to point fingers at others, as when people interpret natural disasters as a divine punishment against LGBT persons and thus lash out against the LGBT community.

The Bible was written in large part by members of a traumatized people, who often interpreted their suffering as God-caused or God-sanctioned in one way or another. But there are other ways to understand why bad things happen to individuals, to whole communities, or even to the whole world.

There are a few biblical stories where suffering “just happens,” but I feel like that’s rarer – the one I can think of off the top of my head is from a book that Protestants don’t share with Catholics, the Book of Tobit: the titular character randomly becomes blind because some birds poop in his eyes, not because he did anything wrong or because another person wished him ill. Oh wait, another example is Ruth’s and Naomi’s story – chapter 1 tells us that their loved ones died in a famine, without any “reason” given for why that famine happened. Sometimes bad things…just happen.

Much more common in scripture are examples of bad things happening because sinful humans make them happen. Joseph of Genesis is beloved by God, yet Joseph’s brothers beat him and sell him into slavery. This trauma is not a punishment inflicted on Joseph by God, but by other people. Same goes for so many other stories of suffering in scripture – Hagar’s story, Tamar’s story, John the Baptist’s story, Jesus’s story……human beings suffer in so many biblical stories not because of their own sin, not because God is punishing or even “testing” them, but because other human beings use their free will to harm them.

For one of the biggest examples: the Israelite people experience the trauma of enslavement in Egypt – and the authors do not interpret it as a punishment from God! Indeed, Exodus 1 tells us that the people were being blessed with exponential growth of their numbers – and that fruitfulness is what leads to their enslavement, because of human sin and fear. Pharaoh fears their numbers, and hey, he needs people who can build his vast cities anyway, so he subjects the Israelites to slavery that leaves them too exhausted and scattered to fight back.

And, most poignantly in this Exodus story, in the midst of the enslaved people’s anguish, God is said to hear them, to see them, to know intimately what they are going through – to feel their pain with them! “I know their sorrows,” God says in Exodus 3:7 – the Hebrew word for “know” being a word about intimate understanding.

Thus we can understand God’s place in our suffering not as the place of the judge or punisher, but the place of the one who suffers alongside us. God chooses to know our pain intimately, to enter into our world that is so fraught with suffering, because God’s power is not the power to harm or dominate; God’s power is compassion.

“God, source of all reality, split the heavens to come to us in a cow shed so that God could be with us. And, as if the ridiculousness of being born in a manger weren’t enough, God dies on a cross – as loathsome, humiliating, cruel, and helpless a death as imaginable – just in case we didn’t get it. As Paul says, nothing can separate us from the love of God. To make sure that we can see that the most abject poverty and homelessness are not enough to separate us from God and that the most severe violence human beings can invent cannot separate us from God – God embodies Godself in precisely these places. These are the places we are most in need of God, and God does not tell us about the divine presence in these places; God enacts this presence as histrionically as possible. It is necessary to do this partly because human beings love gorgeous displays of power and are sorely tempted to imagine God to be just like a monarch or emperor or – best of all – the most powerful sorcerer and sultan in the world. It’s hard to imagine a clearer correction of this view than a birth in a stable and a death on a cross.”- Wendy Farley

All of this is not to say that God’s “okay” with what we are doing to one another and to the earth. God has gifted us with free will so that we cannot be compelled into relationship with Them or with each other; but that gift of free will also means we are free to hurt each other, to choose greed and violence over community and compassion. God does urge us to do better, to be better – and for whatever reason, God does let us face the collective consequences of our sin…for now. But not forever. And not alone.

I’ll close with one more anecdote from scripture, and then a list of further posts related to this topic.

My pastor Cathy preached on John 11 today, the story of the Raising of Lazarus. In the Gospels we see Jesus go through a lot of the same painful feelings we do – from frustration and anger, exhaustion and hunger, to fear and grief. But the most moving display of emotion for me is when he weeps over Lazarus’ death.

Lazarus died, not as a punishment for anything he or one of his loved ones did wrong, but just because…death happens. When Jesus finally arrives on the scene, he knows that he’s going to raise Lazarus up. He knows reunion is near. But still, when he sees his dear friends mourning, he joins in – he moans and weeps for the loss and pain they are undergoing. In her sermon, my pastor said of this grief:

“As we see Jesus’s sorrow, may we recognize the regret of God that Creation is in agony. See God seeing us and grieving that the curse still reigns – for now.”

We suffer, and God suffers with us.

________

Further reading:

“God’s place in grief: not Her will, but Her own broken heart”

“pain is not a lesson”

“this problem will have its place”

My wife and I made a YouTube vid based around a very small example of suffering, which we use to ponder whether things going wrong is a sign God’s cursed us, is punishing us, etc.

So why does God allow suffering to happen, if God’s all powerful and all loving and it’s not a punishment?

When horrible things do happen…is it possible to make something good come out of it?

Check out Kate Bowler’s “Everything Happens” podcast, or her book

#Anonymous #essays #theodicy #suffering #us and god #punishment #reading and studying the bible #trauma #long poetry #coronavirus #natural disasters

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frankiefellinlove · 4 years

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These were the times...

On April 10 2014 the legendary E Street Band

Was inducted into the rock and roll hall of fame.

Bruce Springsteen made the Induction Speech.

In the beginning, there was Mad Dog Vincent Lopez, standing in front of me, fresh out of jail, his head shaved, in the Mermaid Room of the Upstage Club in Asbury Park. He told me that he had a money-making outfit called Speed Limit 25, they were looking for a guitarist, and was I interested? I was broke, so I was. So the genesis point of the E Street Band was actually a group that Vini Lopez asked me to join to make a few extra dollars on the weekend.

Shortly thereafter, I met Dan Federici. He was draped in a three quarter-length leather, had his red hair slicked back. His wife Flo, she was decked out in a blonde bouffant wig, and they were straight out of Flemington, New Jersey. [Cheers] Whoa! Flemington!

Vini, Danny, myself, along with bass player Vinnie Roslin, were shortly woodshedding out of a cottage on the main street of a lobster-fishing town, Highlands, New Jersey. I first saw Garry Tallent along with Southside Johnny when they dragged two chairs onto an empty dance floor as I plugged my guitar into the Upstage wall of sound. I was the new kid in a new town, and these were the guys who owned the place, and they sat back and looked at me like, "Come on, come on, punk, bring it — let's see what you got." And I reached back, and I burnt their house down.

But predating all of this was Steve Van Zandt. Singer! Frontman! Frontman! He was the frontman — I walked into the Middletown Hullabaloo Club, he was the frontman for a band called The Shadows. He had on a tie that went from here down to his feet. All I remember is that he was singing The Turtles' "Happy Together." During a break — at the Hullabaloo Club in New Jersey, you played 55 minutes on and five minutes off, and if there was a fight, you had to rush back onstage and start playing again. So I met Stevie there, and he soon became my great... bass player first, then great guitarist. My consigliere, he's my dependable devil’s advocate whenever I need one. He is the invaluable ears for everything that I create — I always get a hold of him — and fan number one. He's my comic foil onstage, my fellow producer/arranger, and my blood, blood, blood, blood, blood brother, for so long. So, Stevie, let’s keep rolling for as many lives as they’ll give us, alright?

Years and bands went by: Child, Steel Mill, the Bruce Springsteen Band... they were all some combo of the above-mentioned gang. Then I scored a solo recording contract with Columbia Records, and I argued to get to choose my recording "sidemen" — which was a misnomer, in this case, if there ever was one. So, I chose my band, and my great friends, and we finally landed on E Street. A rare, rock 'n' roll hybrid of solo artistry and a true rock 'n' roll band.

But one big thing was missing.

So! It was a dark and stormy night! [Laughs] As a Nor’easter rattled the street lamps of Kingsley Blvd! And in walked Clarence Clemons. I'd been enthralled by the sax sounds of King Curtis and Junior Walker and had searched for years for a great rock 'n' roll saxophonist, and that night Clarence walked in, walked towards the stage, and he rose, towering to my right on the Prince's tiny stage, about the size of this podium, and then he unleashed the force of nature that was the sound and the soul of the Big Man. In that moment, I knew that my life had changed. Miss you, love you, Big Man — we wish you were here with us tonight. This would mean a great, great deal to Clarence.

An honorable mention and shout-out to Ernie "Boom" Carter, the drummer who played on one song only: "Born to Run." He picked a good one, he picked a good one. So here's to you, Ernie. Thank you, thank you.

And thank you of course to Max Weinberg and Roy Bittan, who answered an ad in the Village Voice, and they beat out 60 other drummers and keyboardists for the job. It was the indefatigable, almost dangerously dedicated Mighty Max Weinberg and the fabulous flying fingers of Professor Roy Bittan. They refined and they defined the sound of the E Street Band that remains our calling card around the world to this day. Thank you, Roy. Thank you, Max. They are my professional hitmen! Love you both.

Then, ten years later, Nils Lofgren and Patti Scialfa joined just in time to assist us in the rebirth of Born in the U.S.A. Nils, one of the world's great, great rock guitarists with the choir boy’s voice, has given me everything he’s had for the past 30 years. Thank you, Nils. So much love.

And Patti Scialfa, a Jersey Girl, came down one weekend from New York City and sat in with a local band, Cats on a Smooth Surface and Bobby Bandiera at the Stone Pony, and she sang a killer version of The Exciters' "Tell Him." She had a voice that was filled with a little Ronnie Spector, a little Dusty Springfield, and a lot of something that was her very, very own. After she was done, I walked up, I introduced myself to her at the back bar. We grabbed a couple of stools and we sat there for the next hour — or 30 years or so [laughs]. Talked about music and everything else. So we added my lovely red-headed woman, and she broke the boys club!

I wanted our band to mirror our audience, and by 1984, that meant grown men and grown women. But, her entrance freaked us out so much that the opening night of the Born in the U.S.A. tour, I asked her to come in to my dressing room and see what she was gonna wear. And she had on kind of a slightly feminine T-shirt, and I stood there, kind of sweating. At my feet, I had a little Samsonite luggage bag that I carried with me, and I kicked it open, and it was full of all my smelly, sweaty T-shirts. And I said, "Just pick one of these [laughs]. It'll be fine!" She's not wearing one tonight. But Patti, I love you, thank you for your beautiful voice, you changed my band and my life. Thank you, honey. Thank you for our beautiful children.

Real bands: real bands are made primarily from the neighborhood. From a real time and a real place that exists for a little while, then changes, and is gone forever. They're made from the same circumstances, the same needs, the same hungers, culture, from the same need for a love to cover over hurt. They're forged in the search of something more promising then what you were born into. These are the elements, the tools, and these are the people who built a place called E Street.

Now, E Street was a dance, was an idea, was a wish, was a refuge, was a home, was a destination, was a gutter dream, and finally, it was a band. We struggled together, and sometimes we struggled with one another. We bathed in the glory and often the heartbreaking confusion of our rewards together. We’ve enjoyed health, and we've suffered illness and aging and death together. We took care of one another when trouble knocked, and we hurt one another in big and small ways.

But in the end, we kept faith with each other. And one thing is for certain: as I've said before in reference to Clarence Clemons, I told a story with the E Street Band that was and is bigger than I ever could have told on my own. And I believe that that settles that question. For that is the hallmark of a rock 'n' roll band: the narrative you tell together is bigger than any one of you could have told on your own. That’s the Rolling Stones. That's the Sex Pistols. That's Bob Marley... and the Wailers. That's James Brown... and his Famous Flames. That's Neil Young and Crazy Horse. So, I thank you, my beautiful men and women of E Street. You made me dream and love bigger than I ever could have without you.

And tonight I stand here with just one regret. That's that Danny and Clarence can't be with us tonight. Sixteen years ago, a few evenings before my own induction, I stood in my own darkened kitchen along with Steve Van Zandt. Steve was just returning to the band, after a 15-year hiatus, and he was petitioning me to push the Hall of Fame to induct all of us together. And I listened, and the Hall of Fame had its rule, and I was proud of my independence. We hadn't played together in ten years, we were somewhat estranged. We were just taking the first small steps of reforming, and we didn't know what the future would bring. And perhaps a shadow of the some of the old grudges still held some sway. It was a conundrum, because we'd never been quite fish nor fowl. And Steve was quiet, but persistent, and at the end of our conversation he just said, "Yeah, yeah, I understand... but Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band — that's the legend."

So I’m proud to induct, into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, the heart-stopping, pants-dropping, hard-rocking, booty-shaking, love-making, earth-quaking, Viagra-taking, testifying, death-defying, legendary E Street Band!

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redrobin-detective · 7 years

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I'm a writer and I've gotten a couple complaints that my characterization/psychological state is off. I was wondering if maybe you could give me a little synopsis/character analysis of the main Batfam? Especially Bruce, Damian, and Tim? Those are the ones I'm weakest with. I've looked to many of your answers for more information on the characters and I just want to thank you for being so in depth!!!

It’s hard man and, wow, thank you for the compliment but I’mnot perfect either. With Batman there’s so much history and variability that Icherry pick the parts I like best and combine them to create the ‘ideal’character for my tastes. So keep that in mind, there’s no one right answer.

Bruce- Bruce is one of the most caring people you will evermeet. Such a big heart that loves super intensely. But he’s afraid and he’svery damaged from his experiences. He has all this love but he a) doesn’t knowhow to healthily express it and b) is afraid to acknowledge/express hisemotions for fear of being hurt again. So he comes across as kind of a coldjerk a lot of times. But as he adopts his children (big heart again) he reallydoes make and effort and does as much as he’s capable. He messes up, a lot, buthe still cares. The mission is the most important thing, just slightly behindhis family enough even he forgets sometimes. Motivated and obsessed, hesometimes pushes himself and his feelings too far with consequences.

Dick- Outwardly very bright and cheery, happy and full ofhope and love. It’s one trait he maintains but as tragedies continue in hislife, he hides of that away and instead puts up the mask of a goofball tocompensate. Refuses to be like Bruce but sometimes acts like him anyway. Such apeople person, can make friends in an instant. Observant and caring, sometimesa little overconfident and patronizing but he means well. Being a bigbrother/mentor is very important to him, he loves trying to help out thoseyounger than him to avoid repeating his mistakes. Wracked with guilt and griefand anger that he keeps bottled up cause he hates those negative emotions butthey manifest and cause lots of damage cause he never learned to deal withthem. While he seems easygoing, he’s very stubborn and hardworking and wouldmove literal mountains for those he loves.

Babs- Barb was a very cynical, mature young woman who becameBatgirl as a fuck you to her dad for not letting her join the police force.Eventually she came to love the thrill and intellectual challenge and doinggood. But she grows up and decides Batgirl is a child’s thing and puts it awayjust before her accident. The accident changed her, once a sassy but playfulknow-it, now she’s bitter and angry at her circumstances. It’s unfair whathappened and she broods in her loss, lashes out and pushed people away. Onceshe realizes that she’ll never not miss her legs, she moves on. She’s harsher,more cutting but she’s got her life back and she won’t let her paralysis defineher. Forms the BOP, works with Batman and makes a real difference as Oracle.She’s still angry a lot, bitter but she’s learned to work through it, channelher feelings into positive manners. She’s warm and comforting to those underher wing, an unofficial mom/big sister but a vicious storm to those she fights.

Jason- Jason was a street rat from day one. He grew up incrime alley with a criminal father and an addict mother, he learned to be toughand survive and fight dirty. But despite everything, he still avoided doingmuch crime himself and maintained a good heart. Despite this he has angerissues and insecurities and fears of being just what everyone said he was.Death didn’t help. The Pit scrambled his head, amplified his negative traitsand made him a bit crazy for a while. It calmed down eventually but he’d made alot of enemies and he didn’t regret too much. Through that all, he still caresfor people though, all his murders are done to save people. He’s still bitterwith the batfam, angry about being replaced but he’s tentatively working hisway back in. It’s not easy and they’ll never truly be on good terms, he’s adarker hero now and the Pit still influences him, but he wears the Bat and thatcounts for something.

Tim- Tim’s parents were away a lot as a child so he neverreally developed any bonds. He grew up quiet and alone, honing his intelligencefor lack of anything better to do and a bone deep understanding that he wasn’timportant or worthy of love. He love B&R, looked up to them as heroessaving the city, being important was lowkey obsessed as lonely kids are. Hetook over as Robin, unwillingly at first but then he saw it as an opportunity todo some good in his life, help people. He didn’t think he’d last. As a Robin hewas quiet and contemplative, always hung back and observed rather than jumpingin. Prone to depression and extreme anxiety. Probably the closest to B butstill very warm and friendly, he put everyone else before himself. He gainedsome confidence and grew into himself. When things turned bad, Tim nearlycrumbled. His eternal hope and optimism was darkened and made smaller. It madehim harsher, more willing to bend, not break, the rules. He became more self-reliantbecause people let him down and he won’t make that mistake again. Bitter still,but underneath he’s still that lonely boy who just wanted to help but he coversit with meticulously plans and calculated moves.

Cass- It took Cass a while to learn how to be a personinstead of a weapon. She hated herself and what she’d done (been forced to do)as a child. She was wandering, aimless until Batman found her and gave her backher purpose. Batgirl is so fulfilling for her, to use her skills for goodinstead of hurting people. She’s very kind, she doesn’t want to hurt but shealso will fight against those who do wrong. Very out of touch with culture andpeople in general, especially because she can’t read/write and doesn’t speakwell either. It makes her feel isolated but she tries to move past that. Very curious,loves to explore new things and meet people. Confident in herself but like haveyou seen Cass, she’s every bit as skilled as she insinuates. Loves her newfamily to death would do anything for them. Falls in love with beauty, sheloves dance because it’s a chance to use her natural body reading and movementsto make something beautiful instead of deadly.

Stephanie- Steph is a bit of a wild child, a normal kid but incrediblybrazen, even more so than most teens. When she starts as Spoiler, she reallydidn’t understand the risks and what she was getting into. But as she gotdeeper into the hero gig, she learned how treacherous and demanding it is butshe fell in love with the rush and feeling of accomplishment and also Robin.She wanted to be helpful too, she wanted to feel important and on top becausefor all of her life, she’s just been Cluemaster’s stupid kid. Bubbly but not tothe point of ignorance. She’s happy because she chooses to be and not let theworld drag her down. But it covers a bitter mean steak. Has a mean punch andwill take down anyone threatening or demeaning her. She’s angry at her dad, atTim, at Bruce, at Gotham for how things went down. But she took a page fromBarbara’s book and squared her shoulders, looked her troubles in the eye andsaid fuck off. Very open and playful because if she gives in to all thehardships in her life, that would feel too much like losing.

Damian- Damian was raised a killer but, more importantly, hewas raised to be Batman’s downfall and to eventually become Ra’s vessel. He’sarrogant and rude and doesn’t think he needs anyone. But time with the Batstells him that he doesn’t know everything and the way he was raised wasn’t thebest thing. Dick absolutely changes him; he looks up so much to the acrobat andactively tries to change for him. But changing comes naturally, he develops hiscompassion and builds a relationship within the family and a connection withRobin. He really comes to enjoy this new family and life but he’s insecure andterrified that it will all get taken away: Robin and his family and he’ll besent back to the League. He’s afraid that no one will see that he’s changed or,worse, that he really hasn’t. Covers his fears with sass and false bravado, ‘fakingit until making it’ so to speak. He’s still angry and more violent but he’sworking hard against those ingrained ideas. Feels a strong connection withanimals because they trust him and don’t judge him for his past. Awkwardlyformal and uncomfortable with people, especially kids. He was never allowed tobe a kid himself so he’s very mature but also aching for love and attention.

Also throwing in this bad boy for relationships between the fam, hope that helps!

#batman asks #character meta

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