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navree · 1 year

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When Rhaena told Jaehaerys that she always thought she was a Visenya and Alysanne was a Rhaenys, what did she meant? That’s an interesting parallel, given that she said it in a bad way (sadly) for herself.

(Beyond my personal view that Visenya was a lesbian and that Rhaena is also a lesbian in canon?)

There's the fact that a lot of Targaryens all throughout history have been trying to recreate the dynamic of the Conquerors and their concept of the dragon having three heads, and that this is a dynamic everyone in the family is hyper aware of and is always looking to repeat to see if they can match that sort of greatness, similar to the way good kings are always compared to Jaehaerys himself. There are also some parallels in the situations, such as birth order, with Rhaena being the eldest sister (and eldest child), Jaehaerys being the middle one and her only little brother following the deaths of Aegon and Viserys, and Alysanne being the youngest and the baby. There's also the fact that Jaehaerys is obviously married to Alysanne and had a productive and mostly happy marriage with her, and the generally accepted fact in Westeros that Aegon was only ever in love with Rhaenys and the dynamics of the Conquerors' relationship paralleling Rhaena and Jaehaerys and Alysanne in the vein of "one sister with her two little siblings, and then those youngers as two romantic/sexual partners".

I think it's important to remember the context that these words are said in. It's just after Elissa Farman stole the three dragon eggs (heavily implied to be the three that eventually end up in Dany's possession in the narrative proper) from Dragonstone and absconded to Essos, something that Jaehaerys is very mad about and more importantly, puts some blame on Rhaena for.

“What do you mean to do?” his sister Rhaena asked him. “What I must. What YOU must. Do not think to wash your hands of this, sweet sister. You wanted Dragonstone and I gave it to you, and you brought this woman there. This thief.”

So already, while he's primarily angered at Elissa for actually stealing the eggs, he also puts some of the onus on Rhaena for having put them in the position where this was possible (not entirely unwarranted tbf), and he's willing to take her to task over it even while discussing the primary goal of trying to get the eggs back. And it's when they're discussing that goal, and how Jaehaerys and Rhaena will fly to Essos to reclaim the eggs themselves if they have to, even if by force, that Rhaena says that line.

“No hatchlings can hope to stand against Vermithor and Dreamfyre.” “And Silverwing?” asked Rhaena. “Our sister—” “—had no part in this. I will not put her at risk.” The Queen in the East smiled then. “She is Rhaenys, and I am Visenya. I have never thought otherwise.”

The context here is that Rhaena points out the more logical choice, that they have three grand dragonriders in their family and that Alysanne could very easily participate in taking back any dragon eggs or newly hatched dragons from whatever Essosi noble Elissa sold them to. And before she's even done speaking, Jaehaerys cuts her off and explicitly says that he's not going to risk Alysanne's life for this, and implicitly prioritizing her safety over Rhaena's. Just as Aegon is remembered as having prioritized Rhaenys and his relationship with her over Visenya, to the point where his relationship with Visenya got actively worse when Rhaenys was out of the picture, Rhaena now sees Jaehaerys as prioritizing Alysanne over her, her safety over Rhaena's safety and her ability to live long over Rhaena actively flying into battle to fix a mistake that, while maybe somewhat her fault, is certainly not entirely her fault. And given the commonly accepted history, isn't that very-Aegon like, prioritizing the sister he loves over the sister who is only a sister (ignoring, of course, that both Rhaenys and Visenya flew into battle and fought in the air with their dragons and that Aegon certainly didn't treat Rhaenys as a princess in the tower but an active ruler alongside him and a worthy battle commander in both the Conquest and the First Dornish War before she died)?

And it's also important to note that the past as prologue is a significant factor in this. Out of all of Aenys's still living children, Rhaena's probably the one who has heard Rhaenys talked about the most. She was Aenys's first child and the one who had the most face time with Aegon, and it's explicitly stated in the text that Aegon spent a lot of time with her not just because she was his granddaughter but also because of who she reminded him of.

“It was written that King Aegon himself wept the first time his granddaughter was placed in his arms, and thereafter doted upon the child…mayhaps in some part because she reminded him of his lost queen, Rhaenys, in whose memory she had been named.”

Jaehaerys and Alysanne were both toddlers when Aegon died, but Rhaena was fourteen, and she spent a lot of time with Aegon. It's not impossible to imagine that she heard a lot about her namesake, both out of her own curious questioning and Aegon likely reminiscing. She's the only person living at this time who has likely heard firsthand just how much her grandparents loved each other and how devoted Aegon was to his younger sister, how much he missed her after she was dead. So looking at Jaehaerys's immediate dismissal of putting Alysanne in any danger, even if it put his other sister in more danger, out of his love and care for his wife, might have reminded Rhaena specifically of Aegon and how he'd talked about Rhaenys to Rhaena herself.

Rhaena's also got a lot of bias in the situation. She's just been, in her view, very cruelly betrayed by a woman she loves, after already having had to deal with a fair amount of tragedies in her life and is rapidly losing a lot of personal connections (again, Elissa betrayed her, she was never close with Androw and that's only gotten worse, Rhaella is a septa and therefore not close to her and certainly not living with her, Aerea practically straight up hates her at this point, Jaehaerys is putting blame on her for the entire dragon egg situation and thus pulling away as well). It's not unreasonable to assume that Rhaena felt unloved, as unloved as people hypothesize Visenya was, given how people assume that neither of her siblings ever felt any affection for her and also her son was kind of a monstrous psychopath. Rhaena comparing herself to Visenya isn't just her viewing the situation through a historical lens and going "ooh parallels", but also just her feeling alone and isolated in a dynamic with her siblings and comparing it to the one other dynamic that she could, casting herself in the negative role due to her own issues and her own burgeoning detachment from people. Alysanne is loved by the commons, loved by Jaehaerys, protected and considered precious and adored by her family, satisfied romantically and sexually and with a family; much like Rhaenys. Rhaena is alone and isolated and the odd one out in her remaining siblings, considered aloof and cold and austere, doesn't have a good relationship with the people and an increasingly negative reputation; much like Visenya. It's Rhaena's issues about herself and her circumstances bubbling up in this moment and being tacked onto an already existing relationship type that she's heard the most about, and is already incredibly famous.

In short, Rhaena isn't just looking at the objective parallels between them, but also adding on her own views, in a situation that was already emotionally fraught for her, and was doing so negatively due to her own problems with herself and the problems others are starting to have with her.

#personal #answered #anonymous #rhaena the black bride #rhaena targaryen #things from jj's reign aren't what i often read so i'd honestly nearly forgotten about this passage #but damn pulled a lot more f&b quotes for this than i usually do

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cadopan · 2 years

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I had a bad feeling today and didn't watch the game - figured I had enough stress these days already and I'd rather keep football as a source of joy. After reading your ratings (always very interesting despite the circumstances!) I don't regret it.

In one podcast ep lately I heard someone said they thought Arsenal had, in a way, outperformed themselves in the beginning of the season (like surpassed their xG, etc), and maybe even got a bit lucky. And that at some point, we might all, them and us the fans, be hit with the realization that they're maybe not *as good* as the beginning of the season made everyone think. What do you make of this?

Also re: the players having a bad game. You mentioned that Arsenal's mental is their worst enemy. Isn't this also part of Jonas' responsability, to make them work on this, give them confidence, etc?

I'm getting more and more worried about him. We'll see what happens on Thursday against Barca, but I can't say I'm looking forward to it...

Good on you for making that choice, seriously, good on you. I won't recommend going to watch any replays either if you're trying to keep your sanity or uplift your mood cuz it just gets you down.

Thanks for reading the ratings too! sometimes I spend so long on them and wonder if anyone even relates so that makes me glad :)

That's an interesting point from the podcast; surprised someone came out and said it while Arsenal was still looking invincible but tbf it's completely true. I got a sense of it once we saw the performance in Barcelona. The way they were putting to bed "lesser" teams for fun certainly bolstered the entire community's (not just us fans but pundits, journalists, etc) perception of them, but once they face opposition that are just as individually capable as them, the battle is gonna be won by which side plays as a better team, and this Arsenal side is still in its infancy together.

I also suppose it appeared this way because there are only so many teams with top players in women's football. It hasn't reached a level like the men's yet where game after game is highly competitive and victories don't just rely on the player capabilities but other factors like tactics and game plans.

And that's where Jonas seems to be falling short every time these other factors have come into play, which is pretty worrying like you said.

On the point about the team's mentality, I think that's less concerning of an aspect about Jonas because we can see that he's definitely a character and is great at being passionate and riling the players up. Which also makes today all the more puzzling because every one of them looked lost and way off it. I said it somewhere before that they probably need to get used to having to fight for the win, and stay focused to stick in there even if they find themselves on the back foot. Winning so many games with ease in the WSL has not helped their cause and Chelsea definitely looked more seasoned in terms of mentality and preparation for this today.

Another anon pointed out that Jonas directing responsibility to the players' poor performance in his post-match presser was probably not the best move either, in terms of morale and for the upcoming game. I mainly take issue with him not looking at himself in the mirror first, because the players weren't exactly set up for success to begin with.

#answers #arsenal wfc #arsenal women #vitality women's fa cup #women's fa cup final 20/21 #chelsea fcw

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