#B99 isn't cop propaganda

[bemusedlybespectacled]

do you imagine the Public Pretender concept addressing the bigotry (esp. racism) in every step of the policing-judicial-incarceral system, or would it be more of a B99 situation where it ultimately functions as propaganda? (It seems like those sorts of comedic shows can't ever effectively bite - especially when they often rely on connections with the systems they represent - and any criticism winds up limited to one-off "moral lesson" episodes.)

I think the difference between B99 and any potential comedy about defense attorneys is that they're on fundamentally different sides of the system. Like, the problem with B99 isn't that it's a comedy. Law & Order isn't a comedy and it's definitely copaganda. Punch-up comedy pointing out flaws in the system through humor is definitely a thing.

What makes something copaganda is a bunch of underlying premises, like:

The job of a police officer is to investigate and stop crime.

Police officers generally try to do that job effectively. No police officer ever tells victims of crime that they can't help because something is a "civil matter," or that there's no point in investigating because they're not going to find the perpetrator, or that they personally can't prove that a specific person did a crime (even if there is evidence that a specific person did a crime) so they're not going to do anything about it.

Any impediments to policing, like needing a warrant or not being allowed to beat up suspects, are bad because they prevent the police from doing that job. Police should be allowed to use any means necessary to do their job effectively.

Any person who impedes a police officer in any way – including asking for a warrant, refusing to talk to police without a lawyer present, or just being a defense attorney – is either guilty of a crime or knowingly abetting in a crime for evil reasons.

That job is always more important than following silly rules like "4th Amendment protections against unreasonable searches and seizures," and efforts to make police officers follow those rules are obstructive and annoying. Even if a police officer does do something bad, like torturing someone for information, it's always for the greater good.

The police are infallible. They rarely arrest innocent people, they never elicit false confessions, and a person is clearly and definitely guilty once they have been arrested (as opposed to after they've been convicted).

Now, some of these things, like "the police always try their best and don't give up," are understandable as narrative devices. It would be really boring for every episode of a procedural drama to be like:

Victim: Help, help, I'm being stalked by my ex-boyfriend! Officer: Aha, but how do you KNOW it's your ex-boyfriend? Victim: I have text messages from him saying, "I am going to kill you" with pictures of my house. Officer: But someone else could have stolen his phone, right? So we can't PROVE that he was the one who took those photos and sent those texts! Sorry, can't do anything, call us if you get actual proof. [chunk chunk]

Some of the premises work as narrative devices if your purpose is to have the cops be the protagonists. It makes sense to have your heroes be good and moral people doing good and moral things, and for things that prevent them from achieving their goals being portrayed as bad.

But they don't work if the cops are the antagonists, because now you're operating from the side where the cops are impeding your protagonist's goals. And this is especially true if we're talking criminal law, because then a lot of your plots are going to be something along the lines of, "Hooray, we kept this damning evidence out because the police got it by breaking into the house without a warrant!"

Now, mostly what I'm envisioning is a comedy, and frankly, a lot of day-to-day stuff in my job is funny in a kind of absurdist/dark way. Like, "can you believe this guy threw a condom at his lawyer" or "so this guy is accusing my client of sacrificing their child to the Illuminati" or "I gave my client extremely clear instructions at 4:30 PM and then got a phone call at 9 AM that morning that started with, 'BB, I fucked up' because she had immediately done the exact thing I told her not to do and had been arrested for it." This is the Parks & Rec "the sign said not to drink the sprinkler water" vibe that I mentioned in that post.

But if you have any sort of recurring antagonists, like the Vulture or Wuntch in B99, then you can definitely show bigotry in the system by using the character as shorthand for it, and you don't even need to get that allegorical. Have Steve the Prosecutor or Kellyanne the Cop and just have them repeat some of the things I've heard from actual prosecutors and cops. And then you don't even need to do some kind of after-school special moral at the end: just have Kellyanne make a joke about beating up a homeless man and then have our protagonist look at the camera like they're in The Office.

#personal #bb is a lawyer #public pretender #lawblr #real lawblr #askbox

[cryptids]

.

Honestly I find the '2022 Riddler is alt right/a white supremacist' interpretation really frustrating not only because he genuinely just isn't one, but it's also lacking in any critical analysis of the source media itself.

Despite being given extensive explanations of his motivations and beliefs, nowhere in the movie, the novel or even the deleted scenes does he say anything at all about race, nationalism or any other alt right/fascist belief (and I am including dogwhistles too) these are a very distinct ideology. If it was there it would be identifiable, and its just not.

I shouldn't really have to explain his motivations bc like I said they're explained at length... but he's targeting wealthy and politically powerful people in Gotham, most of all those with links to Falcone and the mafia, because he blames them for the suffering he went through as a child after they stole the renewal money, and he wants revenge for it. In his view its more than just the faults of a few bad people though, he believes the system itself is corrupt and designed to keep those people in power while everyone else is pushed further into poverty, and that its beyond ‘fixing’ and the only real option is to destroy it outright. And these are very obviously radical leftist and Marxist beliefs.

The first point of confusion imo is the way that his online following is reminiscent of how the alt right use the internet to recruit angry and socially outcast white men, since the one follower we saw unmasked was another white man. While this isn't exactly the same situation (it's ignoring the fact that they're angry about completely different things? Being a nazi or believing in racist conspiracy theories is a pretty far cry from being justifiably angry about very real government corruption that we know for a fact was actually happening), I DO believe however that it was an intentional choice to give him followers and depict them this way, rather than just giving him regular henchmen, and I'll get to that.

The second of course is his attempt to kill Bella Reál, who is different from his other victims because she's progressive and a good person, as well as a black woman (the other 5 of his targets all being white men). But in the video to his followers he explains that his motivation for targeting her is because he believes she's the same as every other politician, and because she was just elected he wants to use the spectacle to make a statement. Like I said before he considers politicians all equally complicit, and he thinks it's just "more lies" when she says she genuinely wants to do better. He is wrong about her of course, but I'm just talking about his motivations here. The guy that Selina had on the roof (I forgot his name lmao) said that the election was a joke and it wouldn't have mattered who won because everyone is being controlled by the mafia anyway, and that's fully what Riddler believes to be true.

But what I really want people to stop and think about is why this movie has a "good politician" character in the first place. And I love Gordon, but he is there to be a "good cop" for the same reason, and its deliberate that they are both poc. I think if you understand why a character like Holt from B99 is designed to be copaganda, you'll be able to see what I'm getting at here.

Superhero movies as a genre are absolutely full of very thinly veiled military and police propaganda and really have been for a long time now. As much as I enjoy 2022 Batman it really is no exception. I think it does a bit better than most... it surprises me they'd go as far as depicting the majority of politicians as unambiguously corrupt, though if course they still had to add a little "not ALL of them though, there's still some politicians who are good and trustworthy" in there through Bella's character.

This is also why so many superhero movies feature storylines where the villain is the person who is trying to drastically change society in some way (they will often have leftist motivations mixed in with with actions that are scary and bad, which is deliberate to make radical leftism look scary and bad, and I would not be surprised if that's what they were doing with depicting his followers in a way that would immediately bring alt right internet groups to mind in the audience) meanwhile the heroes fight to keep everything the same as it already is. Because the police and the military do that too, their function in society is to protect the existing social order.

And I mean.... Bruce.... I love him very much, but the hero in this story who we're supposed to root for to stop Riddler's violent anticapitalist revolt is literally a billionaire. Do I really need to say more lmao.

Now I know I need to add a disclaimer before I get accused of doing this, but I am NOT saying Riddler's actions were justified in any way at all, or that anyone has to be sympathetic to him. He's a serial killer and a terrorist lmao. My points are just to stop conflating any kind of violence carried out with political motivations as being the same as the alt right's as if it's all interchangeable (also think about who it benefits when we do that), and we need to go beyond just arguing about fictional characters as if they're people and be more critical of the media itself and why these characters and stories are being written and portrayed the way they are in the first place.

#🐊 #dc #(tagging mostly for people who blacklist) #long post #this is VERY long I'm sorry lmao.... #i tried to cut it down but i couldnt without getting rid of anything i knew id immediately get an anon asking me to clarify #turning reblogs off bc I had to get this off my chest but im also not interested in starting discourse #racism tw

[uncloseted]

What do you think about watching media with problematic elements or with problematic creators/actors?

Anonymous asked:

What are your thoughts on consuming problematic media? I remember you answered an ask about not watching B99 anymore due to cop stuff. I think we should all think critically about the media we watch but still allow ourselves to enjoy media if it brings us joy. My favorite show is The Simpsons and there are plenty of outdated stuff in the older seasons that I am aware of but it brings me joy. I think there is a difference between a show with possibly problematic elements vs Birth of A Nation. Like A Birth of A Nation's whole point is to be extremely racist and spread propaganda but a show like The Simpsons is a show that try to entertain and provide commentary. We should pirate though.

So, when considering "problematic media", I think it's important to be clear on what we're concerned about. In my mind, these concerns can be sorted into two main categories: financial and ideological.

The financial side of things is fairly straightforward. Who profits from us interacting with this media? What kind of power and privilege does that afford them, and how will they use that power? Would boycotting them really make a difference in the amount of power that they have? What media isn't being funded because this media is? For smaller or medium sized creators, not interacting with problematic media can make a big financial difference because it can impact future opportunities that they get and reduce the platform that they have. For someone like JK Rowling, the financial aspect is virtually meaningless, given that her net worth is around £820 million. Even if nobody bought anything from her ever again, she'd still have the power and privilege that comes with being a multi-millionaire.

The ideological side of this conversation is more complicated. We all like to imagine that we're immune to internalizing what we see in media and that we're totally rational beings, but that's just not the case. The more we see tropes in media, the more we normalize them, especially when the media isn't obviously propaganda. With something like Birth of a Nation, it's obvious what its viewpoint is and so its easier to interact with it critically.

I think something like Brooklyn 99 or The Simpsons is actually more dangerous in this regard because they're shows that we consume passively, without the expectation that we should interact with them critically. We treat comedy as if it doesn't have a point of view, but that's not really the case. Whether or not it means to, by virtue of the type of show it is, Brooklyn 99 presents cops as nice, fun-loving people who are just trying their best to do the right thing. That's a point of view, and its one that subconsciously shapes our larger view of police the more that we watch it. It makes people more sympathetic to the idea that, "well, even if most cops are bad, some of them are good like Jake Paralta". The show itself eventually had to recognize and engage with this issue, but doing that kind of sapped the show of what made it fun. Ultimately, I didn't really stop watching Brooklyn 99 because it was "problematic". I stopped watching it because it made me uncomfortable to see the way the characters interacted with the concept of police work in general and the suspects that they arrested throughout the show.

All of this creates a kind of complicated situation. A lot of the time, when we're consuming media, it's out of a desire for escapism. We don't want to interact with everything we watch in a critical fashion, especially not when it comes to sitcoms. But it's important that we do, because we're most vulnerable to subconsciously adopting viewpoints when we've turned off our brains. And we're especially vulnerable when the viewpoints are just kind of baked into the premise of the show. For example, with The Simpsons, the Foolish Husband/Responsible Wife trope is so deeply baked into the premise that Homer's behavior is rarely criticized, and I do honestly think that went a lot way in perpetuating this idea that "men are just Like That and women need to accept it".

So where does that leave us? I don't really know. Try to be more aware of the implicit messaging in media and watch more Ted Lasso and The Good Place, I guess? I know that's kind of a disappointing ending to this whole thought process, but I don't know if I have a better answer than that.

[korrasera]

Do you think it’s really your place to determine whether or not a cop show is propaganda when you’re not part of the demographic that cops terrorize the most/who tend to be at the butt end of the propaganda? Also, I feel like any cop show that’s existing in this current climate is automatically propaganda if the show isn’t about how police should be abolished.

Do you really think it's your place to dictate who can or cannot have an opinion about this topic?

I guess disabled people and mentally ill people shouldn't talk about the portrayal of police in media because they're not really affected by it. Even though a lot of the people that get murdered by police officers in the US are disabled or mentally ill. Oh, and don't forget about the autistic people that cops harm too, you've got to silence their voice while you're at it as well.

What about all of the poor people that police steal from constantly? Did you know that police are the most successful thieves in the US? They actually steal more property than criminals do now, thanks the the widespread adoption of civil asset forfeiture laws, which allow police to target innocent people and steal from them simply for being under suspicion of a crime. Let's make sure that we ignore them too.

And finally, this is probably most important for your position, let's make sure we dismiss the opinions of anyone who doesn't already agree with you and validate your position. Like any black people who talk about how good it is to see real representation of the issues affecting them on a series like B99. You do realize the post that started off this argument had a post by a black person talking about how important it was to see an episode that had such a powerful message about the necessity of police to fight racism in the police force, presented in a way that had exactly nothing to do with any white feelings on the matter, right?

I suppose I should validate you and erase that person's opinion too.

You see, when you write something like this you betray your actual agenda, which is just to silence anyone that doesn't support your view. You don't want anyone to be able to talk if they aren't going to agree with you.

And that, frankly, isn't just childish, it's offensive. You're being kinda gross. Do better, stop being an asshole to people and maybe stop and realize you need to learn something about what words like propaganda mean. Don't jump on every internet bandwagon you think will give you a sense of belonging and validation if you parrot everything they say. It's better to think for yourself and compose your own arguments and work to not erase the voices of the people around you, instead of acting like a petty child who needs to win an argument.

Plus, if you can do that and actually construct a real argument, one that's respectful of other people, as to why B99 is problematic? I will be the first person to listen to you and validate your argument. If it holds up. But you need to build it well and you need to build it ethically. Otherwise it's just more divisive immature trash and deserves to be thrown out as such.

#long post #B99 #B99 isn't cop propaganda #Anonymous

[alexiconoflove]

does trese count as cop propaganda if the one token good cop who was written interestingly like a prisoner calls him out and he proved he cared and acknowledges his crimes up front, remembers the names of the victims , wants to make up for it by saving this man, still gets killed at the end

#the whole show isnt propanda esp when u look at it in terms of the f1ilipino gov omg there's worse shows where they do legtimately #make c0ps infallaible #heroes #cause i know its a paradox the fact that ppl are like 'b99 is what good cops are!1 so its not propaganda' but the fact that the stans #are being all uwu abt it is PROOF it works as propaganda #like the other cop shows are more violent so if u make it seem there's just woke cops in the NY P0LICE DEPARTMENT if all things then that's #clearly fucked up #(also R0sa joined the force so she could get away with violence #Jake assumed someone was bad with no proof that's literally regular cop behavior they just made him less bad to audiences that ppl don't #notice it #anyway does this trese cop count as propaganda or would it only count if he didn't end up just getting killed #this isn't written well I'm just thinking #I know real cops arent like the one in Trese but is the fact that I think he's interesting n better mean that it's still propaganda either #way??

[tiefling-queer]

thanks to @saranethsinger for the concept of this very good meme

(tho i guess the meme’s a bit redundant since media is propaganda)

#emo poetry #tumblr wouldn't know nuance if it decked them in the face #please... please...... #i don't know how to explain that media does in fact have an impact especially on children #ESPECIALLY ON CHILDREN #and to act like media isn't used to manipulate and groom and control REAL CHILDREN is just... really obnoxious #fiction does in fact matter and the way that fiction is used or interpreted matters #and fiction can have negative impacts without meaning to #fiction can be taken so far out of the author's original context and used to do terrible things #(jaws and lolita respectively) #so maybe instead of shrugging and acting like fiction has NO impact #(and making yourself look ignorant in the process) #you could idk either engage in deeper analysis or say you don't want to engage in analysis #you could perhaps address that fiction is meant to entertain and elicit emotional or intellectual responses #b99 for example - entertaining fiction and cop propaganda #intentionally or not it makes police look like individuals who might be good and trying to change the system for good #and thus encourages you to not think about whether or not laws are inherently moral or who benefits from the laws #that doesn't mean it's not a fun and entertaining show with good moments and good lessons #but the message: some cops try to be good remains #and like if you're a liberal you agree but most leftists don't #because the police AS AN INSTITUTION are bad and meant to uphold an OPPRESSIVE STATUS QUO #and b99 (and other procedural cop shows don't get me wrong) encourage you to think otherwise #that doesn't mean you're a bad person for enjoying the show #and that doesn't mean that you support the oppressive status quo for watching it #it's just a fact about the show #and that's ONLY ONE EXAMPLE #fiction has lots of purposes and because humans love patterns even if it doesn't intentionally have a message #it has a message #and admitting that it might have those messages isn't bad #because you don't have to analyze it if you don't want

[becughmitchell]

☕️ fandoms can really ruin a show/movie/book for you because they'll always be pointing out flaws and criticisms with it, which is fine but sometimes you just enjoy it for what it is

i feel like this can definitely be true, but it also depends on the people you’re interacting with yk? like if people are constantly complaining and nitpicking about the little things that don’t actually matter that can absolutely be draining

but i also feel like it’s important/healthy to view the media we enjoy and consume with a kind of critical/analytical eye, like not as a way just to find things to complain about, but as idk a way to enrich our enjoyment of it, if that makes sense? like if i can step back and say, “this show isn’t perfect and i acknowledge that, but it’s extraordinary for all these different reasons so i can still love it” as opposed to just taking everything at face value, i’m not just a passive viewer but i can engage in dialogue with other people who feel the same way i do and we can have idk constructive discussions about ways we feel the show could improve rather than just complain about it

idk if any of this made sense lol i’m sorry

send me a ☕️ and an opinion (popular or unpopular) and i’ll say whether i agree or disagree

#speaking specifically about b99 i think it's definitely important to watch a show about cops in nyc with a critical eye yk? #imo it'd be kind of disingenuous for me to say 'i enjoy b99' and leave it at that #it ends up being more like 'i enjoy b99 an immense amount and it means a lot to me personally but at the same time i can acknowledge the co #and how that pertains to the real world' and like. my enjoyment of b99 isn't diminished #but doing something like that allows me to engage in conversation with ppl who call b99 cop propaganda and stuff bc for me it's not just a #idk words are hard #ask game tag #Anonymous

[mulderscully]

this week has forced me to face my relationship with b99 (and cop shows in general)

like i used to get so defensive abt it being called propaganda and i'm starting to realize that the fact that some of us are so ready to defend these fictional cops kinda makes it propaganda even if they didn't intend it to be.

i think b99 generally means well. i think b99 wants to show us an alternative universe where good cops exist. and even in the show the 99 precinct is an exception in the system. captain's like raymond holt do not exist and he faces constant setbacks.

however, since we watch b99 and love them all so much it softens us to the police, whether we want it to or not. we shouldn't even be thinking about jake peralta during these times bc he isn't real but he is constantly mentioned which means to a lot of viewers when you think police you think jake. that's an issue.

i'm not saying to stop watching, really haven't seen ANYONE say that, but i do think a lot of us - me included - need to see the show more critically and to be frank it is time for cop shows to come to an end imo.

#b99 / #lucifer also... oof

[whatifwekilledgodandwebothgirls]

Isn't it fun that b99 is now cancelled because it's cop propaganda , Harry potter is cancelled because jk Rowling is a terf , every time i go on Tumblr i get depressed because it is now almost completely used as a news platform and news suck and whenever i do anything fun i feel guilty for ignoring all these problems. I'm not saying all this are bad things it's just that i am now forced to watch friends and it sucks so much that I want to person drive up to new York and beat up the actor who played ross violently with a bat

#friends #Ross Geller #anti jkr #jk rowling #b99

[sambergscott]

It's a real thing that media that are for and loved by marginalized groups face more backlash when they mess up than those that arent. b99 is gonna get called propaganda more than right leaning "cops are all heros" shows like fucking blue bloods or whatever bc its fans are more aware of that stuff. this isn't to say that b99 should be shielded from all criticism because it's a "progressive" show. but it is to say that we need to be aware of the double standard all call out ALL cop shows.

This is an EXCELLENT point! People who don’t care won’t see it. And therefore won’t get the backlash they deserve.

#i honestly hadn’t thought of this you are absolutely right!!!! #niamh answers

[celeb-as-fuck]

tea on andy samberg/b99 cast - I only know about 2 of them : Andy Samberg made some pretty gross look-shaming comments about Rami Malek as well as Freddie Mercury couple of years ago. Plus he plays cishet white male cop that is the main lead in a cop propaganda show that he also has producer credit for aka b99 which isn't a good thing in 2020. Then the more problematic one - Terry Crews is misogynistic af, I heard about him being transphobic as well. Also Lin Manuel Miranda on B99 - LMM sucks.

The Andy Samberg tea is weak lol.

[casgirlsam]

Remember how you insulted pinkssunrise cause she tweeted that she likes Dean's character cause his hard past makes him more complex as a character. You said: "I relate to Dean. And saying trauma makes a fictional character more interesting is insulting to me! My trauma isn't here to be your fetish!" But you also tell in*est survivors that c*ld in*est p*rn is just a kink, cause the characters are fictional? So, you either think fiction relates to reality or it doesn't. Can't have it both ways

so i wasnt going to answer, but youve been going at my friends (and enemies) for months about this, so it ends here. also im using this as a way to educate people about proship points that apparently yall refuse to listen to.

edit: apparently the mobile cut shortcut doesnt work so semi-long post ahead!

firstly, the sweater situation:

what sweater ACTUALLY said was

she called dean’s trauma, trauma that is so similar to my own, “spice” that made him more interesting. she said jensen was “bland” because he had parents that loved and supported him

as you can see, my concern was more for the VERY REAL PERSON she insulted and the fact that she said jensen WAS BORING BECAUSE HE WASNT ABUSED AS A CHILD. now stop going to people with this very obvious lie

secondly, “STOP SAYING FICTION DOESNT AFFECT REALITY!”

i never said that. ever. doing a search under my @ on twitter shows everything i said about fiction and reality

ive complained about people blaming fiction on people doing bad things because it takes personal responsibility from the person and ive complained about rps shippers not understanding the difference between reality and their fictionalization of real people. but never have i said they don’t affect each other

there’s isn’t a 1:1 relationship between fiction and reality. it’s complex. fiction can help push ideas and propaganda. for example: every cop show ever is pro-cop propaganda. yes, even my two faves b99 and monk.

HOWEVER!

fiction does not always act in this manner. nor does it affect everyone the same way. i still enjoy these shows even tho they’re obviously painting cops as lovable goofs.

fiction also can help people understand themselves better. so clearly it’s not as simple as one extreme or the other.

hannibal and dexter, for example, didnt cause a rise in serial killers.

and you’ll find basically every out spoken proshipper makes this point, but most of them are on twitter so it’s not as easy to talk about complex issues there

anyway, it’s the same with fanfic. do you really think that fics with extremely dark concepts are going to cause people to go out there and do those things? do you really think someone is going to read a wincest fic and suddeny want to fuck their sibling? or an underage fic and suddenly wanna fuck a kid? i would hope not because that’s a ridiculous thing to say

and the important thing to note here is that these characters are just that. CHARACTERS. theyre not REAL. harassing/sending death threats/doxxing content creators, REAL LIVING BREATHING HUMANS, for things they make that you dont like is a hard line no one should ever cross and that EVERYONE should have a problem with. i don’t understand how thats a controversial statement. DONT FUCKING TELL PEOPLE TO KILL THEMSELVES JUST BECAUSE YOU DONT LIKE WHAT THEY DO WITH FAKE PEOPLE

you wanna fight ACTUAL predators? then do that. leave fan content creators alone.

and btw: yall only care about victims when they act like what you think victims should act like. newsflash: not every person reacts to trauma the same way and not every person copes the same way. stop harassing, often lgbt+, people that cope in ways using fiction that YOU PERSONALLY dont like

and stop LYING

#q&anon #spn wank #pro shipping

[neptunlan]

"b99 isn't cop propaganda" then explain why some people's first instinct during these times is to defend the characters

#etc.

[korrasera]

butts-bouncing-on-the-beltway reblogged your video:korrasera: intersex-ionality: korrasera: ...

You are……very wrong about what propaganda does or does not do.Almost every single piece of long form propoganda I’ve...

I can’t speak directly to what they said as I believe they’ve blocked me, but this is an example of the kind of simplistic analysis that I’m talking about. They’re just repeating the same popular misconceptions about what propaganda is, without any argument to back it up beyond, “well it is.” Also I think I may have offended this person by not sharing their opinion before they decided to reply to mine, but that’s somewhat expected. This is tumblr, after all.

But they’re still wrong.

To be clear, if you define propaganda as anything that features sympathetic characters with a certain identity that you dislike, then literally every piece of media ever created qualifies as propaganda.

That’s it, conversation done. There’s no way to avoid that interpretation when people stick to the idea of ‘if cop therefore propaganda’.

Also, propagandists don’t make subtle statements. They don’t ask you to question things and they aren’t trying to make something nuanced that will get you to lower your shields. Because that takes hard work and a lot of time and propagandists aren’t setting out to make social movements, they’re setting out to influence opinion. Immediately. Aggressively.

I’m reminded of the fan theory that Loki’s plan in The Avengers was to lose the fight at the end of the film and get captured, so he would be taken back to Asgard where he could enact some brilliant master plan. Only he didn’t, he just lost, and he didn’t have any master plan. Because that’s not Loki. He schemes and takes advantage is all.

I feel the same way here. Propaganda isn’t subtle and it isn’t crafty and it isn’t slowly corrupting the minds of a generation. It’s a film with an aggressively pro-US pro-war stance that treats the Viet Cong like complete villains and US soldiers as total heroes, like in The Green Berets. It’s the Triumph of the Will and Leni Riefenstahl crafting powerful illusions that made the nazis seem like an unstoppably powerful force.

If your argument is that something is propaganda when you can’t even point to what the propaganda is meant to accomplish, beyond some vague fearmongering about how it’ll ‘get past their shields’ or ‘really speak to them’ then you don’t have an argument. You just have an imaginary supervillain who is slowly capturing people’s wills through the use of cunningly crafted years long plans of conquest involving comedy television.

This is a good example of the disconnect between the things people believe on tumblr and the things that are actually true. I know about propaganda because I studied media, politics, and philosophy in college, so while my knowledge is not specialized I have at least become familiar with the academic investigation of these topics.

It can be kinda frustrating to see people take this tack because it’s an unthinking analysis of the topic that doesn’t hold up under even basic scrutiny. And of course, talking about it invites people to try to defend their interpretation because it’s more important to support our position as the correct one rather than question whether it’s the right one.

Calling Brooklyn Nine-Nine propaganda is something that would get you a failing grade in a poli sci course. So in this case butts-bouncing-on-the-beltway seems to be the one who doesn’t understand propaganda as well as they thought.

Bonus point:

The arguments that B99 are cop propaganda mean that any show portraying any character in a public service position is ultimately a form of propaganda. Every cop show? Propaganda. Every lawyer show? Court propaganda. Every show about politics? Political propaganda.

Last I checked, I’m pretty sure Night Court wasn’t propaganda meant to subtly influence you to put your trust in the hands of public defenders and night judges.

We use media to hold up a mirror to ourselves. That’s why you’re seeing cops on TV, because cops are a part of our world and a lot of people imagine themselves becoming heroic police officers as kids. That doesn’t mean it’s propaganda.

And it certainly doesn’t mean that people’s hopes, dreams, and ambitions are propaganda either.

#butts-bouncing-on-the-beltway #B99 #long post #B99 isn't cop propaganda

[andysambergstan]

I'm sorry I know you must be sick of these but I just want to throw my two cents in. B99 shows what police work is suppose to be i.e. the squad is a community resource and support system. There are groups- including BLM- that are pushing to incorporate more community involvement and more police diversity. Claiming that talking about how police work should be done at all as being propaganda UNDERMINES people who want to fix the police force. The point is it isn't wrong to talk about or make (1/2)

(2/2) make media about as long as people understand the realities of cops in the US- which the B99 fandom obviously does. So to conclude- you can’t just go “well that’s problematic so nobody should consume it.” You’re shutting down conversations that could actually be helpful. My guess is that B99 is a popular show and just like plenty of popular things it gets a group of people that want to appear more “woke” so they shit on it instead of talking reasonably about it.

[end of ask]

hey, anon! i’m not tired of these. i just don’t have that much to add to the discussion. also, i’m not from the US, so i’m looking at it from the outside. but you’re more than welcome to talk about it here! :)

“just like plenty of popular things it gets a group of people that want to appear more "woke” so they shit on it instead of talking reasonably about it.“ - THIS!

[bespectacled-baccalaureate]

@ ppl saying the fans of b99 are brainwashed with cop propaganda: some individuals are actually mature enough to differentiate b/w fiction and real life enough to enjoy the show and it's amazing representation of minorities without equating it to it being a real depiction of cops irl. I know fiction influences real life, I promise I do, but I really doubt b99 is massively brainwashing ppl into thinking cops really exist like Jake or anyone on that show. Some people just need to tear apart any thing that has even a slight possibility of being problematic. Sure the show isn't perfect but it's trying it's best with minority representation and non-offensive humor. But go off I guess

#as a jew #jake is so important #especially in his relationship with amy!!!!