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asnowperson · 2 years

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Meaning of "Turkish bath" in Japanese

Reading old shoujo manga has taught me something, and that is how the expression "Turkish bath", and even "Turkey", was used to refer to sketchy ""massage parlors"" in Japan.

I first encountered this expression in volume 2 of Kaze to Ki no Uta's fan translation. However, that made little sense to me, so I had to go and check what was said in the Japanese original:

And it still didn't make much sense, but I somehow associated it with my little history knowledge: During Ottoman times, men could buy the "services" of young employees of bath houses. Boys and young men could be bought and sold there, or you could bring your own and have a good time. So, those places had a very gay vibe. Basically, baths were a holy land -especially- for pederasts. I giggled a bit at this usage of the word, and moved on.

Then when I was reading volume 15 Eroica yori Ai wo Komete, I encountered a similar expression. Mischa the Cub has gone to Istanbul, and here's what Klaus says about Eroica's decision to follow him:

Klaus: Well then, have a nice day, Mr. Eroica. Eroica: I'm going to Turkey too! Klaus: Oh, you mean the soapland? Eroica: No, I mean the one in Asia minor.

That "soapland" gave things away, and I finally had the common sense to google it: After prostitution was criminalized in Japan during the 1950s, they opened bath houses where women """washed""" men's bodies, and called them "torukoburo" (トルコぶろ). This appellation was widely used until the 1980s, when the Turks living in Japan and even the Turkish ambassador protested this appellation. After that, there was a competition to find a new name for this kind of brothels, and the term "soapland" (ソープランド) was coined, and it's still used to this day. You can read about it here, or in the other hundreds of articles you can find on the internet. Also, if JP Wiki is to be believed, after the "soapland reform", the words "toruko" and "torukoburo" in already published material were also changed to "soapland".

With this historical context in mind, it's understandable why Takemiya and Aoike would used this expression: In both scenes, there's an unapproved sexual act from the point of view of the speaker, and they are being allusive. And during the 1970s and 1980s, when the works in question were written, "torukoburo" was commonly used. However, I suspect that the authors also somehow knew the homosexual connotations of Turkish baths, as you all know what's going on between Serge and Gilbert and the Earl would never approach women to have his body ""washed"". I'll keep my headcanon.

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ottomanladies · 4 years

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Hey this a question about Köçeks and their connection to the Harem but also LGBTQ in the harem and the empire. I read somewhere that court dancers and concubines, jealous of attention to the boys killed them? What about eunuchs? Did women of the Harem ever have affairs with them? How did castration become a thing in the first place and who decided who was castrated vs. who was a slave soldier? Do we know if women had affairs with other women in the harem? What about the eunuchs?

I'm sorry, köçeks have no connection to the harem. They were entertainers in the city (taverns, pubs?, clubs, etc) not in the palace.

It seems you have read the wikipedia page about them because it says:

Köçeks were much more sought after than the çengi ("belly dancers"), their female counterparts. Some youths were known to have been killed by the çengi, who were extremely jealous of men's attention toward the boys.

And, again, belly dancers were not harem dancers or court dancers. So, no, no one from the harem killed köçeks.

About eunuchs, Croutier says:

The first traces of eunuchry appear in Mesopotamia, the cradle of civilization, between the rivers Tigris and Euphrates, which eventually become one and empty into the Persian Gulf. In that delta, a beautiful valley nurtured many tribes— predominantly matriarchal societies. During the ninth century B.C., Semiramis, queen of Assyria, castrated male slaves. So did other queens. — Harem: The World Behind the Veil

I seem to remember that the Byzantines employed eunuchs in the Royal Palace and that is how eunuchs ended up being employed in the Imperial Harem of the Ottoman sultans.

And indeed Croutier says about this:

During the fourteenth century, when the Ottomans first began secluding their women, the Byzantines supplied them with eunuchs, but it did not take the Turks long to establish their own trade. — Harem: The World Behind the Veil

Eunuchs could not be castrated by Muslims so they were sold already castrated. It was Christians and Jews who castrated them

Egyptian Christians or Jews castrated some young black boys on the way at rest stops, since Islam prohibited the practice. It was a risky operation with a high mortality rate, and the hot, arid climate was not conducive to easy recovery. Desert sand being considered the most efficacious balm, the newly castrated were buried up to their necks until their wound healed. The boys who survived the pain, hemorrhage, and subsequent burial became luxury items, bringing enormous profit to the traders. And since they attracted wealthy purchasers, the eunuchs’ futures actually held opportunity for position and power. — Harem: The World Behind the Veil

Talking about sexual relations between concubines in the harem is a very risky thing because most of the people who reported them did so to feed the image of the harem as a world of sexual perdition. An example:

“It is common knowledge that as a result of this familiarity in washing and massaging women fall very much in love with each other. And one often sees a woman in love with another one just like a man and woman. And I have known Greek and Turkish women, on seeing a lovely young girl, seek occasion to bathe with her just to see her naked and handle her.” — Harem: The World Behind the Veil

Another rumour is that they could not serve entire vegetables to the concubines because they would use cucumbers or similar vegetables to pleasure themselves... which is something clearly written to shock Europeans.

Of course we cannot exclude lesbian relationships in 700 history of harem seclusion but I'm quite sure they were kept a secret because I doubt that the sultan would have appreciated that.

The only time sources talk about a lesbian relationship is with Turhan Hatice Sultan and Meleki Kalfa. They said that they would share the bed but it was done just to discredit the valide sultan and not for the sake of reporting the truth. Also sometimes Meleki is portrayed as a seductress who deceived Turhan Hatice just for power.

About eunuchs, again Croutier says that there were instances in which they had sexual relationships with the women in the harem (or outside the harem):

The loss of sexual organs does not necessarily remove all sexual desire, especially if castration is performed at puberty [...]. A eunuch who had lost only his testicles could still have erections and enjoy sex. — Harem: The World Behind the Veil

They sometimes kept their own odalisques, and others preferred young boys, as a court halberdier remarked in Risale-i Taberdariye fi Ahzal-i Ağa’yi Darüssade (1714): These wretched men, they fall in love with handsome youths too and keep them close, these wretches have so much desire in their corrupt bodies. Every single one of them buys a couple of slave girls and secretly keeps them in their room, jealous of the others of their kind. They fight with each other over these women they keep in their rooms. How could a traitor commit such an act without sexual urge? — Harem: The World Behind the Veil

Eunuchs were also known to experiment with aphrodisiacs and erotic paraphernalia. Having contact with the outside, they were able to obtain a variety of sex toys, including artificial phalli and other erotic succedanea. They were also highly skilled in the art of oral sex; a woman who married after having made love to a eunuch was often dissatisfied with her husband’s performance, according to a halberdier: Is it said that these odalisques who become intimate with eunuchs develop a voracious sexual appetite? That they do is a well-known fact all over Istanbul. Two odalisques were given their freedom and married off. A week after their weddings, the husbands divorced them. The reason being that the odalisques told their husbands they did not perform as well as the eunuchs. Because of that, the husbands divorced them. This incident occurred in my time. — Harem: The World Behind the Veil

I don't know if these things are true or not but they were reported by ottomans. Again there's always the doubt that it was done to discredit those men or to smear their reputations. I personally think that eunuchs led a very sad life because not each of them became Chief Harem Eunuch and therefore powerful and respected. I feel like they had to deal with a lot of rumours and malicious gossip. After the fall of the empire, no one wanted to get close to them:

During the last days of the Ottoman Empire, there was a great deal of concern about their survival in old age. They feebly attempted forming unions. Nobody wanted to deal with them anymore, because they stood for a past everyone wanted to bury. “In the midst of a crowded bazaar,” Edmondo de Amicis writes in Constantinople (1896), “among the throng of pleasure seekers at the Sweet Waters, beneath the columns of the mosques, beside the carriages, on the steamboats, in kayiks, at all the festivals, wherever people are assembled together, one sees those phantoms of men, these melancholy countenances, like a dark shadow thrown across every aspect of gay Oriental life.” — Harem: The World Behind the Veil

#anon #ask post #ask: ottoman history #ottoman harem #turhan hatice sultan #meleki kalfa #Anonymous

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