#anti targaryen

[dreamfyre-beautiful]

Problems I have with HOTD so far:

• not letting Alicent be actually evil. Y’all already hate her for being a GOOD person, I can’t imagine how y’all would handle an actually evil queen. I wish she killed Viserys and made Aegon heir Herself!

• no perspective of small folk, closest we have is Criston who is still more well off then 90% of king’s landing. In GOT we got small folks perspectives on their rulers a lot and I hope we get that soon.

• taking away Helaena’s autonomy. Making her the cute autistic girl who does no wrong is such a bastardization of her that it’s laughable.

• casting with specifically Laena. Do not get me wrong, the actresses are gorgeous and Amazingly talented, but because they aged her up during Rhae’s wedding it makes her look even older than Rhae even tho they have at least a 3 year age gap.

• “and now they see you as you are” WHAT? They see a woman drop all decorum for her child? She their queen willing to personally handle situations? Like I genuinely do not know what this is suppose to mean.

• bulldozing the Velaryon family. Rhaenys does nothing when both her children die to the hands of the targs, no one does anything when Vaemon dies, even when Rhae tries to make Luke the lord of the tides no one brings up that his fiancee should be the true lord not him.

• the new promo saying “[team black] acts more like a family” maybe my family is weird but we don’t fuck each other or marry each other at all

• only truely giving team black’s dragon’s personality. We know Vhagar’s SLIGHTLY but Dreamfyre and Sunfyre are nothing right now

• no Alicent birth scene. We get multiple traumatizing birth scenes but the woman who was a mother of 3 before 20 doesn’t get one? Ok

Will add more as I think of them

#house of the dragon #hotd #game of thrones #alicent hightower #got #pro team green #hotd discourse #anti targaryen #anti rhaenyra targaryen #anti daemon targaryen #house of the dragon season 2 #houseofthedragonedit #house hightower #house targaryen #house stark #aegon ii targaryen #helaena the dreamer #aemond one eye #aemond targaryen #hotd aemond #pro criston cole #ser criston

[spacerockfloater]

Every time Matt Smith opens his mouth I feel the impulse to spray him with water from a squirt bottle.

“I’m coming for his head. Gonna put it on a spike. We’re the thoroughbreds. We do things the right way-”

Shut up, shut up, you peanut size brained neanderthal. You’re in this industry solely because you couldn’t be a professional athlete. You’re pretending to be a theatre kid but every time you’re given the chance to speak, the jock inside of you comes to the surface and it disgusts me. Hearing him talk makes me violently ill.

#house of the dragon #anti matt smith #anti daemon targaryen #anti daemyra #pro team green #anti team black #anti targ stans #anti targ restoration #anti targaryen

[the-daily-dreamer]

The targaryen ruled 130 years without dragons. And the most capable kings were all targaryen. After them it was a decline for the throne. Robert, joffrey, tommen, cercei were all sith ruler .

I see targ stans are investing in high quality air to fill their heads lol

But anyways. “The most capable kings were all targaryens”. You know who else were targaryens? The worst rulers of Westeros. Robert, Cersei, Joffrey, and Tommen aren’t even close to the worst kings and queen to rule. And bringing them up as evidence to show that the targaryens are good is so disingenuous.

Maegor the Cruel, Aegon the Unworthy, The Mad King Aerys, Rhaenyra (yes, I know that’s controversial), and Daenerys (yes, I know that’s even more controversial) are all far FAR worse than anyone you mentioned.

Maegor killed his wife and her entire family. He was a usurper (apparently it’s good when the targs you like do it lol), a kinslayer (also a thing only good when it’s targs you like doing it), raped and tortured many people, wiped out entire houses, killed any and everyone that he saw in any way as deserving, and created a huge war with the faith of the seven.

Aegon the unworthy was corrupt and lazy and legitimized his bastards leading to the blackfyre rebellions that led to endless bloodshed for 5 generations.

Aerys was so bad he had a rebellion staged against him that ended his family dynasty. He burned fathers and sons together. He tortured people and burned them alive. He abused and raped his wife when he would burn people alive. He wanted to kill the entire city of kings landing.

Rhaenyra (who like it or not went down in history as one of the worst rulers) known as maegor with teats taxed her people to starvation. She had daily executions. She had knights inquisitors hunt down and punish people.

Daenerys burnt down kings landing, was complicit in the rape and enslavement of hundreds, ruined city economies so badly slavery was a better option, then profited from said slavery, abandoned the people she conquered (no doubt ensuring they will be enslaved much more harshly after supporting her), raped a “free” slave that she admits still acted like a slave because that’s all she knew, oh yeah and again, SHE BURNT DOWN KINGS LANDING. And this is after the people you listed.

And this isn’t including non Targaryen rulers that ruined lives like the blackfyres. Or rulers that are bad but weirdly beloved like Aegon I who basically conquered people by threatening to kill them and everyone they loved, subjugating a country for hundreds of years.

The best rulers I admit were Targaryens. But that’s because they were the only rulers save for 4 people. Of those four, two were bad and two were incompetent. Not nearly the sadistic “mad” people I described above. And funnily enough, as soon as a Targaryen came back to power…things got worse again. Funny how that is.

Oh and by the way. Going with the histories of Westeros. Guess who is among the best rulers according to small folk Aegon II and Alicent. Seethe :)

#game of thrones #house of the dragon #team green #anti targaryen #anti targ stans #anti team black #anti rhaenyra #anti rhaenyra targaryen #anti Aegon IV #anti Aegon IV Targaryen #anti Aerys II Targaryen #Anti Aerys II #anti daenerys targaryen #anti daenerys #anti maegor I #anti maegor I Targaryen #alicent hightower #anti aegon ii targaryen #anti Aegon I Targaryen #anti Aegon i

[belladonna-kisses]

Nobody can convince me Viserys loved Aemma. I don't care what nobody says. I'm not listening. I don't wanna hear it.

And I know Aemma probably in the Seven Heavens fuming- cause imagine your husband murdered you for a son and then later on he gets three sons and neglected them.

HE GETS THREE OF WHAT HE MURDERED YOU FOR AND THEN NEGELCTS THEM!

Viserys deserved the slow death that he got. Infact, it wasn't slow or painful enough.

#anti viserys i targaryen #asoiaf #Hotd #a song of ice and fire #aemma arryn #aemma targaryen #Queen Aemma #aemond targaryen #daeron the daring #aegon ii targaryen #Aemma and Alicent deserved better #anti targaryen

[gwenllian-in-the-abbey]

Sick of hearing about how sexually liberated Targaryens are. Targaryens are more "sexually liberated" than the rest of Westeros in the way Mormon fundamentalists are more "sexually liberated" than the rest of America.

#anti targ stans #anti targaryen #inspired by a truly obnoxious conversation #viserra and saera would like a word

[thesunfyre4446]

viserys : is angry at daemon for hooking up with Rhaenyra because she's "just a girl"

also viserys : is married and has 2 children with a alicent, who is rhaenyra's age.

#anti viserys targaryen #anti viserys i targaryen #anti daemon targaryen #pro alicent hightower #alicent hightower #hotd #house of the dragon #queen alicent #team green #pro team green #i have viserys so much #anti targaryen

[shvroyism]

People saying that Alicent started a war the began the fall of the Targaryen dynasty… like that’s a bad thing

#thank god she put an end to those freaks #everybody say thank you alicent 🙏🏻 #anti targaryen #anti targ stans #pro alicent hightower #not saying she actually did this btw but its so funny when they blame her for it and act like its so problematic #when i will always be cheering for targaryenphobia #this isn’t about rhaenyra rhaena the lesbian or daenerys btw those are my beloveds and they will always be better than their whole family

[dulcewrites]

I know it must’ve really gagged Rhaenys when Vaemond told her that it was a queen that sat the throne. Like I bet it truly boils some Targaryens *cough Daemon cough* blood that little miss sad brown eyes with no dragon managed to peacefully rule over something they see as a right or a power only someone who is like them should have. They lash out at her because she is the outsider in ‘their’ territory.

And it’s extra sad bc Alicent literally tried with all of them. She dressed in red and black, she wanted to show Daemon those nasty tapestries, she supported Rhaenyra’s claim till she just couldn’t anymore. She wanted to ‘assimilate’ bc often that is all you can do when you are in a hostile environment or powder keg situation. It’s why I hate the ‘alicent’s kids aren’t real targs’ or ‘she’s trying to get rid of targ culture’ arguments. On top of just not making sense, it’s not true. She TRIED. All she was met with was resentment, often for decisions that were out of her control.

It is easy for them to use Alicent (the outsider) as a scapegoat bc if they didn’t they’d have to look at their own behavior and how their ‘Targaryen exceptionalism’ has done nothing but make them greedy and stupid

#like no wonder they resent Alicent #she is truly the opposite of what they think a ‘strong targ’ should be and mother still persevered #alicent hightower #anti targaryen #< just to be safe #anti rhaenys targaryen #<- it’s leaving the bubble yall ;@/9@;@/&:’j #anti daemon targaryen #anti viserys i targaryen

[sad-hippie]

I can't understand how anyone could look at the Storming of the Dragonpit - the greatest act of courage to ever be seen in Westeros - and despise the smallfolk for it.

The bravery, the discontentment, the hopelessness for their own future, and yet, the undying hope for the chance of liberation that would push those who suffer the most from the vicious wars for a metal chair that is meaningless, to finally say - Enough.

To risk being burned alive so that their children won't be. Knowing that the chance for failure is tremendous and nevertheless trying. Because they have to. Because enough is enough. Because no one is safe, not even their own. Because there is no other way. Because the Targaryens will always resort to this. They will always resort to Fire and Blood.

The rule of the dragons must come to an end.

And to look at the greatest act of revolution against the Iron Throne and think it anything else but justified, earned, bought and payed for with their own blood. That anyone would find it in their hearts to pity the dragons, that are nothing more than weapons of mass destruction is so contrary to the spirit of the series that I wonder if people know what they're reading/watching at all...

#storming of the dragonpit #anti targaryen #anti targ restoration #asoiaf #hotd #the shepherd #the burning knight

[ghostofashina]

welcome to asoiaf fandom

you want:

- nice theories and deep analysis

you receive:

- neonazi power fantasy about pure blood supremacy

#anti targaryen #anti targ restoration #asoiaf

[alicentes]

Alicents a better person than me because if I was forced into marrying an old man at 15, regularly SA’d and forced to have children so he could have “heirs” just for me and my children to be cast aside with no future or protection in place for the children HE wanted, I would set fire to his empire and watch it burn to the ground.

#I wish the show had let anger after years of abuse be her motivator even if viewers hated her even more (team black would hate her anyways) #alicent hightower #hotd #house of the dragon #anti targaryen #the second aemond got that dragon and viserys showed he didnt value our childrens lives i wouldve gone full mad queen

[dreamfyre-beautiful]

Rhaenyra is more conservative soccer mom then Alicent EVER WAS.

The woman who says her baby boys are perfect no matter what versus the one that openly struggles with her relationship with her kids? The woman who actively punishes people around her for telling the TRUTH?

I’m so tired of Alicent being called a conservative simply because she’s religious.

#house of the dragon #hotd #game of thrones #alicent hightower #pro team green #got #anti rhaenyra targaryen #hotd discourse #anti targaryen #anti daemon targaryen #pro alicent hightower #team alicent #team green

[spacerockfloater]

In the show, Rhaenyra is just as weak and self centred as Viserys is.

The fact that she repeats her father’s mistake, remarrying and producing legitimate children who would overshadow her chosen yet questionable heir, is so stupid.

Viserys desires another woman and male heirs, therefore he gives into the temptation of obtaining Alicent and having male children, without realising that by doing this he’s making it difficult for Rhaenyra, a girl, to keep the throne.

Rhaenyra desires her uncle above everything else, therefore she gives into the temptation of obtaining Daemon and having children with him, without realising that by doing this she’s making it difficult for Jacaerys, a bastard, to keep the throne.

The dance would have happened anyway, maybe it could be postponed for one generation had Otto not been so eager to chase the throne, but it would still happen.

And let’s be real: had Viserys not chosen Alicent, he’d pick another girl, like Laena, whose father would want the exact same thing Otto wanted: his blood on the throne. Corlys admits that’s what he’s after. Anyone would do the same thing. All the great houses are ambitious. The issue is that Viserys and Rhaenyra kept making stupid choices that made it easier for them to be undermined and then they cry about it.

#house of the dragon #team green #anti rhaenyra targaryen #hotd #house hightower #pro team green #alicent hightower #anti hotd #anti targaryen #anti house targaryen #pro house hightower #targtowers #anti rhaenyra stans #anti daemyra #pro alicent stans #pro alicent hightower #pro aemond targaryen #anti targ restoration #anti targ stans

[the-daily-dreamer]

Reminder that if your feminism revolves around propping up women that partake in traditionally masculine activities/roles and shitting on or even hating women who embody traditionally feminine roles and enjoy feminine activities you’re not really a feminist.

It sets the precedent that women are only valuable and valid if they have traditionally masculine traits, which feeds a narrative that masculine traits are better simply because they are associated with men who are the ideal. It perpetuates the idea that things that are feminine and traditionally associated with women are in fact inferior to men/masculinity and should be looked down upon and belittled.

And, it alienates so many individuals that feel more comfortable in femininity, regardless of gender identity.

I think people in the ASOIAF fandom really need to learn this because feminine characters are so despised on the basis that they are not “better” women. Simply because they don’t embody traditionally masculine things like conquering or fighting.

Much of the hate comes from stans that love characters like Rhaenyra, Daenerys, and Arya (and do not get me wrong I love Arya), who are women and girls that are in positions that allow for more traditionally masculine behaviors and tomboyishness. And they will say incredibly sexist things about how the other women in media are inferior and directly contrast these women to their faves negatively by pointing out that they’re “too weak” or “subservient”. They reduce femininity to weakness and bowing to patriarchy instead of considering that some people have a different, more feminine nature. And that is OK! Just because a woman isn’t wielding a sword or fighting on the front lines or pursuing leadership roles in masculine ways (because historically women exacted and sought power in different ways than men) doesn’t mean they aren’t valuable and strong characters. Do not use feminine characters as a negative comparison to show how “feminist” and great your fave is. Because it’s just so blatantly sexist.

Don’t fall into the trap of reinforcing patriarchal rhetoric!!! Don’t reinforce narratives that traditional masculinity is superior to femininity!! Don’t belittle feminine activities and act as if they aren’t valuable!!! Girbosses are great but so are gentlewomen.

#This may not make total sense but I hope the point gets across anyways #Masculinity is not superior to femininity #And if you actively say that your female faves that are masculine are better than feminine characters… #You feed the narrative that those behaviors are inherently better simply because they are associated with MEN #anti team black #anti targaryen #anti rhaenyra #anti rhaenyra targaryen #anti daenerys targaryen #anti daenerys #anti Arya stans #anti dany stans #anti rhaenyra stans #anti got fandom #anti hotd fandom #team black’s feminism is insanity #feminism

[sayruq]

So Luke lost control over his dragon as it burnt Vhagar without his permission. Immediately Aemond loses control over Vhagar and she proceeds to kill both Luke and his dragon. The dragons acted as though both dragon riders were not there. They're animals so their instict was to fight and attack back.

While I would have loved Aemond choosing to kill Luke, I do like that this change shows the Targaryens are not demigods. They barely have control over their dragons

#aemond targaryen #lucerys velaryon #hotd #house of the dragon #anti targaryen

[gwenllian-in-the-abbey]

Is there anything support the populat interpretation that old valriya and valryians in general are more feminist, and progressive than the rest in Asoiaf?

Anon, thank you! I've been wanting to address this for awhile, so I'm going to actually answer this really fully, with as many receipts as I can provide (this ended up being more of an essay than I intended, but hopefully it helps)

I think there's in fact plenty of evidence to suggest that Valyria and the Valyrians in general were anything but progressive. Valyria was an expansive empire with a robust slave trade that practiced incest based on the idea of blood supremacy/blood purity. All of these things are absolutely antithetical to progressivism. There is no way any empire practicing slavery can ever be called progressive. Now, the Targaryens of Dragonstone have since given up the practice of slavery, but they certainly still believe in the supremacy of Valyrian blood.

And I'll see the argument, well what's wrong with believing your blood is special if your blood really is special and magic? Which is just-- if anyone catches themselves thinking this, and you sincerely believe that GRRM intended to create a magically superior master race of hot blondes who deserve to rule over all other backwards races by virtue of their superior breeding which is reinforced through brother-sister incest, and you've convinced yourself this represents progressive values, then you might want to step away from the computer for a bit and do a bit of self reflection.

And remember-- what is special about this special blood? It gives the bearers the ability to wield sentient weapons of mass destruction. It's also likely, according to the most popular theories, the result of blood magic involving human sacrifice. So there is a terrible price to pay for this so-called supremacy. Would any of us line up to be sacrificed to the Fourteen Flames so that the Valyrians can have nukes?

And if you are tempted by the idea that a woman who rides a dragon must inherently have some sort of power-- that is true. A woman who rides a dragon is more powerful than a woman who does not ride a dragon, and in some cases, more powerful than a man who does not ride a dragon, but that does not make her more powerful than a man who also rides a dragon. Dragonriding remained a carefully guarded privilege, and Targaryen women who might otherwise become dragonriders were routinely denied the privilege (despite the oft repeated "you cannot steal a dragon," when Saera Targaryen attempted to claim a dragon from the dragonpit, she was thrown into a cell for the attempted "theft,"words used by Jaehaerys). The dragonkeepers were established explicitly to keep anyone, even those of Targaryen blood, from taking them without permission. Any "liberation" that she has achieved is an illusion. What she has gained is the ability to enact violence upon others who are less privileged, and this ability does not save her from being the victim of gender based violence herself.

Politically speaking, it is also true that Valyria was a "freehold," in that they did not have a hereditary monarchy, but instead had a political structure akin to Ancient Athens (which was itself democratic, but not at all progressive or feminist). Landholding citizens could vote on laws and on temporary leaders, Archons. Were any of the lords freeholder women? We don't know. If we take Volantis as an example, the free city that seems to consider itself the successor to Valyria, the party of merchants, the elephants, had several female leaders three hundred years ago, but the party of the aristocracy, the tigers, the party made up of Valyrian Old Blood nobility, has never had a female leader. Lys, the other free city, is known for it's pleasure houses, which mainly employ women kidnapped into sexual slavery (as well as some young men). It is ruled by a group of magisters, who are chosen from among the wealthiest and noblest men in the city, not women. There does not seem to be a tradition of female leadership among Valyrians, and that's reflected by Aegon I himself, who becomes king, rather than his older sister-wife, Visenya. And although there have been girls named heir, temporarily, among the pre-Dance Targaryens, none were named heir above a trueborn brother aside from Rhaenyra, a choice that sparked a civil war. In this sense, the Targaryens are no different from the rest of Westeros.

As for feminism or sexual liberation, there's just no evidence to support it. We know that polygamy was not common, but it was also not entirely unheard of, but incest, to keep the bloodlines "pure," was common. Incest and polygamy are certainly sexual taboos, both in the real world and in Westeros, that the Valyrians violated, but the violation of sexual taboos is not automatically sexually liberated or feminist. Polygamy, when it is exclusively practiced by men and polyandry is forbidden (and we have no examples of Valyrian women taking multiple husbands, outside of fanfic), is often abusive to young women. Incest leads to an erosion of family relationships and abusive grooming situations are inevitable. King Jaehaerys' daughters are an excellent case study, and the stories of Saera and Viserra are particularly heartbreaking. Both women were punished severely for "sexual liberation," Viserra for getting drunk and slipping into her brother Baelon's bed at age fifteen, in an attempt to avoid an unwanted marriage to an old man. She was not punished because she was sister attempting to sleep with a brother, but because she was the wrong sister. Her mother, the queen had already chosen another sister for Baelon, and believed her own teenage daughter was seducing her brother for nefarious reasons. As a sister, Viserra should have been able to look to her brother for protection, but as the product of an incestuous family, Viserra could only conceive of that protection in terms of giving herself over to him sexually.

Beyond that, sexual slavery was also common in ancient Valyria, a practice that persisted in Lys and Volantis, with women (and young men) trafficked from other conquered and raided nations. Any culture that is built on a foundation of slavery and which considers sexual slavery to be normal and permissible, is a culture of normalized rape. Not feminist, not progressive.

I think we get the picture! so where did this idea that Valyrians are more progressive come from? I think there are two reasons. One, the fandom has a bit of a tendency to imagine Valyrians and their traditions in opposition to Westerosi Sevenism, and if Sevenism is fantasy Catholicism, and the fantasy Catholics also hate the Valyrian ways, they must hate them because those annoying uptight religious freaks just hate everything fun and cool, right? They hate revealing clothing, hate pornographic tapestries, hate sex outside of marriage, hate bastards. So being on Sevenism's shit-list must be a mark of honor, a sign of progressive values? But it's such a surface level reading, and a real misunderstanding of the medieval Catholic church, and a conflating of that church with the later Puritan values that many of us in the Anglosphere associate with being "devout." For most of European history, the Catholic church was simply The Church, and the church was, ironically, where you would find the material actions which most closely align with modern progressive values. The church cared for lepers, provided educations for women, took care of orphans, and fed the poor. In GRRM's world, which is admittedly more secular than the actual medieval world, Sevenism nevertheless has basically the same function, feeding the poor instead of, you know, enslaving them.

Finally, I blame the shows. While Valyrians weren't a progressive culture, Daenerys Targaryen herself held relatively progressive individual values by a medieval metric. She is a slavery abolitionist, she elevates women within her ranks, and she takes control of her own sexuality (after breaking free from her Targaryen brother). But Daenerys wasn't raised as a Targaryen. She grew up an orphan in exile, hearing stories of her illustrious ancestors from her brother, who of the two did absorb a bit of that culture, and is not coincidentally, fucked up, abusive, and misogynistic. He feels a sexual ownership over his sister, arranges a marriage for her, and even after her marriage, feels entitled to make decisions on her behalf. It is only after breaking away from Viserys that Dany comes into her own values. Having once been a mere object without agency of her own, she determines to save others from that fate and becomes an abolitionist. But because Game of Thrones gave viewers very little exposure to Targaryens aside from Daenerys, House Targaryen, in the eyes of most show watchers, is most closely associated with Dany and her freedom-fighter values. And as for Rhaenyra in House of the Dragon, being a female heir does not make her feminist or progressive, although it is tempting to view her that way when she is juxtaposed against Aegon II. Her "sexual liberation" was a lesson given to her by her uncle Daemon, a man who had an express interest in "liberating" her so that she would sleep with him, it was not a value she was raised with. In fact, she was very nearly disinherited for it, and was forced into a marriage with a gay man as a result of said "liberation." She had no interest in changing succession laws to allow absolute primogeniture, no interest in changing laws or norms around bastardy despite having bastards; she simply viewed herself as an exception. Rhaenyra's entire justification for her claim is not the desire to uplift women, bring peace and stability to Westeros, or even to keep her brother off the throne, it is simply that she believes she deserves it because her father is the king and he told her she could have it, despite all tradition and norms, and in spite of the near certain succession crisis it will cause. Whether she is right or wrong, absolutism is not progressive.

And let me just say, none of this means that you can't enjoy the Valyrians or think that they're fun or be a fan of house Targaryen. This insistence that Targaryens are the progressive, feminist (read: morally good) house seems by connected to the need of some fans to make their favorite characters unproblematic. If the Valyrians are "bad," does that make you a bad person for enjoying them? Of course not. But let's stop the moral grandstanding about the "feminist" and "progressive" Valyrians in a series that is an analogue for medieval feudalism. Neither of those things can exist under the systems in place in Westeros, nor could they have existed in the slavery based empire of conquest that was old Valyria.

#asks #sorry this got so long #anti targaryen #old valyria #viserra targaryen #house targaryen #hotd critical #asoiaf #hotd #game of thrones #valyrians were not progressive #or feminist #or sexually liberated