#anti templar

[kirkwalldrama]

people: 'anders killed hundreds of people in that explosion'

also people: ignore the fact that hawke killed like 1000000 people in the streets for gold

#hawke #anders #da2 #dragon age #dragon age origins #handers #dai #garrett hawke #dragon age 2 #anders da2 #anders was right #anders dragon age #dragon age dreadwolf #anti chantry #anti templar

[trans-ruffboi]

pounce's outfit

original image under the cut:

#dragon age memes #anders has never been more proud #dragon age awakening #ser pounce a lot #everybody ignore how this image is terrible quality. i lost the actual sketchbook image and downloaded the version i posted to discord #da2 #dragon age origins awakening #anti templar #dragon age meme

[meowmeowmage]

The Chantry explosion being Hawke's catharsis

One handers (doesn't have to be handers but imo it works best like that) take/headcanon about the end fo DA2 that I haven't seen before is that the Chantry explosion is a catharsis for Hawke, that it feels both freeing and relieving to him. I'll elaborate. This is all about pro-mage (probably red) Hawke btw.

Hawke is not exactly a man with a plan. Things just happen to him (Varric approaches him for the Deep Roads expedition, the qunari try to take over Kirkwall, etc). He only makes decisions when a situation is presented to him, but never really tries to steer events in a certain way unprompted. In Act 3 Hawke has a reputation and social sway due to being Champion. But those don't mean much bc politically (and in terms of actual power in the form of a templar army) Elthina and Meredith are in charge, and nobody can do anything against them. Not really. And not in the violent police/dictatorship state that Mereedith is running.

Hawke gets blackmailed into helping Meredith, and would've probably gotten blackmailed again and again until he was forced to do something he would hate himself for, or refused and Meredith had him removed from the picture. The latter would've caused a stir among the people but ultimately nothing would've changed bc Meredith has Kirkwall by the throat. Hawke would've been accused of something (blood magic, harbouring apostates, doesn't really matter) bc in Act 3 the templars are killing people left and right for whatever. Hawke just has way more protection bc of his status, but that's not infinite.

So Hawke in Act 3 is stuck between a rock and a hard place. But he's not a planner. He doesn't even know where to start in order to fix the situation. Red!Hawke specifically realizes that war is inevitable, but he doesn't know how to bring everything to a boil, especially not to a situation in which those against the templars would have as close to equal grounds as possible for a fight. But Anders does. Anders has a plan and Hawke knows that. So he waits for Anders to present him with a situation.

And when the Chantry goes boom, that situation is finally presented. The choice is clear. And Hawke feels relief bc now he knows exactly what he needs to do. It's catharsis bc it's the relief from years worth of stress. The feeling of constant pressure, uncertainty and frustration - all released now. It's time to act.

#handers #hawke #anders #anders was right #my posts #chantry critical #anti chantry #anti templar #this got longer than i intended but i hope someone reads it

[platoniccereal]

actually jowan and surana's story is so cruel because surana is the best student, and jowan is a far less skillful mage, and their story shows so much because the templars claim to be champions and defenders so it means they are supposed to protect the weak. and what the players see when they are presented to thedas for the first time? once again nothing the templars claim is true, because they don't defend their weak, they weed them out, and only mages like surana have a chance. if you play for the first time, it's such a cold dogma vs reality opposition. the existence of the harrowing is also in the same bucket. it's not about protection, nobody cares about the weak, and the only for mages is to prove themselves constantly.

#dragon age #dragon age origins #anti templar #anti chantry #jowan dragon age #warden surana #dao playthrough #my post

[squirrelwithatophat]

Wynne defending children from the Templars

It’s interesting to reflect on Wynne’s Establishing Character Moment in Dragon Age: Origins, especially in light of the strange whitewashing of the Templar Order in Inquisition as well as her apparently conservative politics.  When we encounter her in Broken Circle (our first interaction with her since the brief chat at Ostagar), we see her fighting to protect a group of young children not only from demons but from the Templars -- the very military force that claims to protect them.  If she is recruited into the party, in fact, we discover that she had already sacrificed her life for them.  She is technically dead/undead and only kept standing due to possession by a spirit of Faith.

As soon as the party enters the door, she’s fearful that the Warden has come to kill them all on behalf of Knight-Commander Greagoir, and depending on player choices/intentions, she may in fact be correct.  

Wynne: It’s you!  No... come no further.  Grey Warden or no, I will strike you down where you stand!

Warden: Wynne - what are you doing here?

Wynne: I am a mage of the Circle.  More importantly, why are you here?  The templars would not let just anyone by.

Warden: You have children with you.

Wynne: The tower is a place of learning.  Young apprentices are always here.  Why is that surprising?

Wynne: But this is no time to discuss that.  Why are you here?  Why did the templars let you in?

Warden: I am helping Greagoir resolve the Circle’s difficulties.

Wynne: Then you do serve the templars as I feared.  Do they have the Right of Annulment?

Warden: The Right of Annulment?

Wynne: The order from the grand cleric allowing the templars to completely annul a Circle.  Do they have it?

Warden: No, but Greagoir expects it to arrive soon.

Wynne: So Greagoir thinks the Circle is beyond hope.  He probably assumes we are all dead.  

Wynne: They abandoned us to our fate, but even trapped as we are, we have survived.  If they invoke the Right, however, we will not be able to stand against them.

Warden: It’s nothing less than this Circle deserves.

Wynne:  Do these children deserve death too?  Will they die by your hand?

Warden: Mages are a danger.  If I had a say, you would all be culled.

Wynne: Kill us solves nothing, but with training and education, mages learn to control their powers.

Wynne: You’re mad if you think I’ll let you lay a finger on these children.  If will fight you if you won’t listen to reason.

Wynne: I am not afraid of you.

Warden: This Circle must be destroyed, for all our sakes.

Wynne: If you insist on making war on the Circle, we have nothing more to discuss.  It comes to blows, then.  I will stop you or die trying.

BONUS - terrified child fleeing from being murdered:

Commentary

While Wynne can be condescending and sometimes preachy in her support for the Circle, her dialogue both here and elsewhere indicates that she has no illusions about the Templars keeping them locked inside.  

After all, they imprisoned her in Kinloch Hold since she was a young child, took her own child away from her forever, and threatened to slaughter both her and the other children she was mentoring in her son’s stead.  If recruited into the party, she opens up about the despair she felt as a girl when she realized she would be trapped there forever, and it was only by turning to the religious faith that was being forced on all mages in the tower that she began to make peace with her fate.  She knows that if the Libertarian Fraternity successfully leads a vote for independence from the Chantry, the Templars will simply kill them all.  She even uses the term “genocide” to describe what will happen.  She explicitly cites this as the reason why she opposes the independence vote. 

The mages will never be free! The Chantry would never allow it. Our only hope for survival is to show them we can be trusted! Don’t you remember what happened to the Circle in Ferelden? Do you want to give the templars another excuse to call for the culling of all mages?

She doesn’t reject freedom for her fellow mages for any personal advantage, throwing others like her under the bus to reap the rewards of brown-nosing.  If she wanted any semblance of power or status, after all, she would have accepted the post of First Enchanter (or second-in-line to it) a long time ago.  As of Dragon Age Origins, she has consistently rejected the opportunity to become Irving’s successor.  As of the end of Broken Circle, if she joins the party and defeats Uldred’s rebels, she still needs to ask for permission just to temporarily leave the tower, despite having proven her loyalty and competence beyond any reasonable doubt both here and over the past thirty or so years of incarceration.  It takes helping the Hero of Ferelden save the entire country by defeating the Archdemon to convince the Templars to allow her to come and go freely - an opportunity that, as her own son later points out, no one else has had or probably ever would have in their lifetime (and one, as the only the player knows, that is entirely conditional on player choices).

The only context in which she ever even considers fighting the Templars is when she has no other way of preventing the Templars from killing them all anyways - both during Broken Circle and in the climax of Asunder.

Her politics are, in the end, based on fear.

Not the usual fear of the Other or fear of social change that hamper normal politics, but the completely rational fear, as someone at/near the bottom of the social hierarchy, about what the authorities will do to her and everyone like her if they step out of line.  As it turns out, she’s not wrong about what the powers that be are and how they will react - she’s only wrong about the potential for a better future and the rewards of fighting for it.

#dragon age #dragon age origins #dragon age meta #da meta #wynne #wynne dragon age #chantry critical #anti chantry #templar critical #anti templar #circle critical #anti circle #pro mage #dao #broken circle #knight commander greagoir #right of annulment #100 #200 #300

[merrilldidnothingwrong]

DAI really did lack the teeth that DA2 and DAO had. Cassandra never really get challenged in her views and she doesn't change anything when Divine. The game just tries to trick you into thinking she does by using manipulative language, i.e., "new" templar order and "new" circle of magi. Neither is new, they're both exactly the same. The game just wants you to think change is being made when it isn't.

Then you have her ask an elven Inquisitor if there's no room for another God. Or be very dismissive of any faith that isn't Andrastian. But you can never challenge her on it. Much like how you can't challenge Cullen's shit takes.

Yeah you're so right, they really flopped when inquisition writing backpedaled on the chantry and templars. And you can't fire back on people with their apologism.

That line of Cassandra's pisses me the hell off. Let people, especially elves with their oppression believe in their own gods.

0/10 stars do not recommend (100/10 stars for most of the companions). Shame they made 2 great games and they made the best quality (graphics wise) game but the personality of wet cardboard 😞

#bioware critical #anti chantry #anti templar #cassandra critical #cullen critical #f them all

[niofo]

bioware be like, there are some good templars out there! and then point to a bunch of worst templars ever.

if you can't be bothered to actually write a redemption arc maybe just pick one of the few templars that don't have a long rap sheet of being a horrible person.

#this is about cullen and evangeline in particular #i get you want interesting love interests but “they are good now” is not an interesting characterization #anti cullen rutherford #anti evangeline de brassard #dragon age critical #anti templar

[libartz]

Me with no context: Fuck the circles. If you support the circles you’re wrong

Someone: Damn, things are really heating up in the shape fandom

#lil talks #anti circle #anti circle of magi #anti chantry #anti templar

[my-dumb-obsessions]

Gee, I wonder how he got that?

🤔😂

#anders #dragon age anders #dragon age awakening #dragon age #anti templar #anti chantry #my game screenshots

[kaltacore]

I haven't paid much attention to it during my previous playthroughs because I was already overwhelmed with all the mass murders, power abuses and hate crimes happening in the game but oh boy. the templar order in kirkwall is even more messed up than it seems because despite all the big words about "noble cause" and "protecting the people" no templar genuinely believes or cares about that. among the ones in charge at least.

the thing is, one of the main motivations for hawke and carver (or hawke and bethany but mage hawke's case gets more hilarious in the following acts) to join the deep roads expedition is to escape the templars. they aren't planning to move in the deep roads until meredith resigns or something, they need to get money to escape the templars. to bribe them. and this is actually what happens in act 2! hawke is rich af and nobody bats an eye there is a mage living in hightown and breaking chantry laws whenever they want! they can approach cullen to show him alrik's documents and he immediately suspects they're the one who killed alrik but then proceeds to do nothing. they can spit in elthina's face by calling her useless and still. she does nothing.

it gets better and better in act 3. hawke is a champion and them being a mage is practically a common knowledge. and not just a mage, but a very skilled and dangerous one. also their friends are a possessed apostate and a dalish blood mage. these three are literally the type of people templars are obligated to capture asap. it's like, red alert levels of danger. yeah, meredith can blackmail hawke if they try to turn her down, but she still let them walk freely while they do some favors for her. she acknowledges this. she sees hawke as a threat, but won't touch them as long as they're useful. oh, but where did the "we must protect the city from mages! we must protect the mages from themselves!" bravado go?

templars won't lay a finger on hawke because everyone in the city, the nobles as well, will be mad if someone threatens their favourite friendly amell neighbour and then their champion. if someone threatens champion's friends the champion will be mad too.

kirkwall templars have a reputation of being strict and distrustful but capable, when in fact they beat frightened kids up and make them tranquil for exchanging love letters but if someone who can actually fight back shows up they will shit their pants. even the most dangerous and self-righteous ones.

does meredith believe that she is doing the right thing? I guess so. will she make an exception for extremely powerful uncontrolled mages because otherwise they will endanger her position and become an obstacle to her seizure of power? oh sure she will.

it's not a game conventionality though. if it was one we would get another inquisition where you simply can't be unhinged or say or do stupid reckless shit because it would put the whole organization in a very unpleasant position. inquisition just doesn't give you that option because it had no intention to elaborate on it. meanwhile in da2 all these topics are addressed: hawke can be rude to people in power, they can be openly pro-mage and other characters acknowledge that as well as their class and it makes sense. that's just a templar hypocrisy at it's finest for you.

#oh man the amount of things I haven't noticed when i played this game a couple of years ago #i genuinely thought I can't despise these guys more but i guess i was wrong #fuck the templars #fuck the chantry as well tho #anti templar #dragon age

[kirkwalldrama]

can someone explain me why people treat anders as a villain for blowing up the chantry (even tho he peacefully fought for mage rights for years, led free clinic for poor refugees, helped circle mages to escape) but love and adore isabela who out of selfishness led to WAR with qunari, causing death of (probably) much more people in kirkwall? i love isabela but that's not fair fr

#anders #dragon age #anders dragon age #da2 #dai #dragon age origins #dragon age dreadwolf #anders was right #fuck the chantry #isabela #da2 isabela #hawke #handers #da #pro mage #anti templar #qunari

[thiefbird]

Loghainfuckers rise up, I guess???

He's just so much more ~interesting~ than Cullen! Cullen is boring and I would hate him simply on the principle of bioware retconning shit to make him more likeable so he could be romanced. Frankly, Cullen would be a better character(not a better PERSON, but a more interesting character) if they'd let him still have killed those kids instead of just. Making it go away??

Like. Loghain is Not A Good Person. I would go as far as to say he is A Bad Person. But at least he's INTERESTING. Cullen is boring, and infuriating.

And that's why I'm backing the Loghainfuckers.

#anti cullen #cullen critical #anti templar #oh and loghainfuckers acknowledge that He Sucks! #no one is like. trying to pretend he DIDN'T sell elves to tevinter #or that like him selling elves to rebuke was A Good Choice

[meowmeowmage]

there's no justification for the state of the Circle system, there just isn't

and no amount of asking nicely would've fixed this

(and those are just the moments I remembered to take screenshots and not the very many instances of similar things)

#mage rights #anti chantry #anti templar #my posts #pro mage #tw: rape #cw: rape #anders was right #from the very start #the system has been rotten for centuries

[pisswizard420]

#anti chantry #anti templar #dragon age #like in inquisition they straight up go ‘yeah the chantry has committed genocide but its totally chill actually’

[squirrelwithatophat]

Did you know that there are whipping posts in the Kirkwall Gallows?

They’re rather easy for players to miss. You can see them in the background during The Last Straw (Act 3), and as early as Act 1 (and continuing into Act 2), Circle mages can be heard complaining, “Don’t talk to me. The templars will give me thirty lashes if they see me speaking to a civilian.” During the quest A Noble Agenda (Act 3), a woman reports seeing a mage cousin “whipped, half-starving” while pleading for mercy from a literal “death squad.”

In-universe, however, the whippings in the Gallows appear to be common knowledge. During Repentance (Act 2), we can see a whipping post (the exact same model observed in the Gallows later on) being used for sexual roleplay in the Harimann Estate in Hightown.

Lord Harimann: Now, you be the naughty apprentice, and I’ll be the Templar torturer.

It’s Played For Laughs here of course, but it really says something that citizens of Kirkwall know about Templar abuses in the Gallows and just how awful conditions are there — including the use of whipping posts. This isn’t even the only instance in the game of random NPCs referring to the severity of the repression and the rampant cruelty.

For example…

During The Destruction of Lothering (Prologue):

Hawke: I heard someone call this fortress the Gallows. Is it a prison?

Guardsman Wright: Used to be, back in the Imperial days. They kept slaves here until the rebellion. Now the templars run it and use it to lock up their mages. Guess not much has changed.

Outside Lirene’s shop, during Tranquility (Act 1):

Refugee: Hey! We heard you in there. Asking about the healer. We know what happens to mages in this town. And it ain't gonna happen to him.

Speaking to the sister of a Templar during Enemies Among Us (Act 1):

Macha: Keran was always so devout, so idealistic. He was so proud when the templars accepted him. I pleaded with him not to join the Order, but he wouldn't listen. You hear dark rumors about the templars and Knight-Commander Meredith. And now my brother is gone.

Hawke: (“Are templars so bad here?”) In Lothering, some templars died protecting villagers. I never heard any dark rumors.

Macha: And those are the stories my Keran adored. But it is not like that here, serah. There is a growing darkness in the order. They prowl the streets in packs. Hunting. And now, they say their duties put them above us, that they have the right to... take people from their homes. It is frightening.

Hawke: (“Tell me about Meredith”) What do people say about Knight-Commander Meredith?

Macha: Oh, she has many admirers. They laud the service she does in keeping the mages in check. But others say she is terribly fierce and utterly without pity. That she sees demons everywhere. It is dangerous even to whisper such things.

During Wayward Son (Act 1):

Feynriel: Look, I know it's different in other kingdoms, but here... no one helps Circle mages. Anything the templars don't like, you get the brand.

During Underground Railroad (Act 2):

Hawke: Helping apostates is dangerous. If the templars caught you...

Mistress Selby: One of my sisters is a mage. A gentle child, so generous. She was made Tranquil last year. Templars claimed she was a danger. Now... it's like she's not there. That shouldn't be forced on anyone.

In Sundermount (Act 3), if Feynriel escapes to Tevinter:

Arianni: I hear the templars have grown more abusive of the mages in Kirkwall. I'm glad Feynriel is no longer subject to their whims.

By the Docks, any Act:

Unnamed Woman: I feel sorry for the mages sometimes, you know? What a terrible thing, to be used by everyone.

Knight-Captain Cullen even admits that the common folk suspect them and have become hostile towards the Templars. There’s this exchange in Act 1:

Hawke: The templars defend us all.

Cullen: That's a surprisingly unpopular viewpoint. It used to be that templars were welcomed wherever they went—for defending people from dark magics. Now the townsfolk are as likely to slam their doors as offer us a bed. The image of the poor, chained apprentice is a powerful one. And one the mages are more than willing to exploit.

Then there’s the codex for the Mage Underground (available in Dissent, Act 2), written by Cullen:

Every Circle in Thedas suffers from individual mages who rebel and attempt to flee… Until now, I have never served anywhere that the populace does not fully cooperate in hunting these rebels. Here in Kirkwall, citizens actually help rebel mages escape.

In World of Thedas vol. 2 (p. 173), from a note dated 9:25 (set between Acts 2-3) from a mage of the Hossberg Circle in the far away Anderfels: 

I have heard that in the Kirkwall Gallows, mages are locked in their cells with barely room to stretch, let alone exercise.  I can promise you that any mage of the Anderfels would be stark raving mad after a week of such treatment... No wonder Kirkwall has such trouble with blood mages.

Even relative newcomers recognize the situation right away. For example, when speaking to Grand Cleric Elthina in the Chantry (Act 1):

Hawke: Why are Circle mages here kept in a Tevinter prison?

Elthina: Ah. So soon you take an interest in our problems. The short answer is, it was a building. A large one. Should it have sat empty? The Chantry found a use for what was once a horror. It is the nature of men to move on and forget the past. Even your Blight will be a distant memory in our lifetimes.

Isabela: “Once a horror?” Yes, I'm sure it's filled with flowers and sunshine and happiness now.

Even Fenris, who supports Meredith’s policies, immediately notices (first entry into the Gallows, Act 1 or 2):

Fenris: I've... heard about the Circle of Magi outside of the Imperium, but I've never been in one. This seems more like a prison. I wonder if it's more effective than the Circle I know.

Given all this, it’s hard to believe that the people in power in Kirkwall don’t know (or at the very least suspect) what’s going on — more likely, they simply just don’t care.

Or perhaps they think it’s acceptable. As Cassandra says of the Seekers of Truth in Inquisition, “We knew what was happening at Kirkwall, where the mage rebellion began. We looked into reports of Knight-Commander Meredith’s harsh treatment of her charges years earlier. But we found so many shocking cases of magical corruption, it was decided her actions were justified.”

#dragon age #dragon age 2 #chantry critical #anti templar #anti chantry #kirkwall #the gallows #kirkwall gallows #lord harimann #da2 #meta #da meta #da2 meta #dragon age meta #cassandra pentaghast #cullen critical #templar critical #circle critical #whipping post #feynriel #mage underground #wayward son #enemies among us #elthina critical #tranquility #rite of tranquility #100 #200 #300

[merrilldidnothingwrong]

the only templar I trust is Alistair. and it's because he doesn't want to be a templar and got out as soon as he could. I don't trust any other templar and because of this my sister and I argue 24/7 because she is a cullenmancer.

Like you may not ever change her mind but you're right! Alistair is the man!!

#dragon age #Alistair #anti templar #anti cullen