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#templar critical
justcallmecappy · 1 year
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One of the criticisms I've seen DA players have in response to Anders' actions at the Kirkwall Chantry is some degree of, 'his actions forced innocent mages into a war they had no choice whether or not they wanted to be involved in'.
What a lot of these players seem to miss is this: The mages were already involved. They have been involved since childhood, when their magic manifested.
If you are born a mage in Southern Thedas, you are marked. The Templars will find you, or your neighbors who were conditioned by the Chantry to fear magic will turn you in, and you are brought to the Circle where you are at risk of Tranquility, or Annulment, and subjected to a Harrowing. Your children born to you in the Circle will be taken from you to be raised in a Chantry orphanage (like Wynne's child was). You are not allowed to get married, or start a family, or own land. You are not allowed to leave your Circle ever, unless conscripted to fight in the army (like in the Fifth Blight) or fulfilling some whim or need of those in power (like Malcolm Hawke being made to entertain nobles at a party). You might be thrown into the dungeon and left to starve to death, like the mage child Cole (and other mage apprentices of the White Spire) did. You are at risk of physical and sexual abuse, like the mages of the Gallows were.
Innocent mages were already involved. They were already being killed, they were already fighting for their lives for centuries since the inception of Circles, long before Anders' actions.
Also, in the case of the Gallows specifically, Knight-Commander Meredith had already called for the Annulment as early as the beginning/mid of Act 3. The mages' lives were already in danger, even before the Chantry was destroyed.
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Anders tried for six years to make people listen and show how magic is not meant to be feared and can be used for good -- by publishing a manifesto, by providing free magical healthcare in Darktown -- to bring people's attention to the plight of mages and change things for the better. It took the imminent threat of his people being slaughtered wholesale for him to resort to what is aptly titled 'The Last Straw'.
If players want to blame anyone for subjecting mages to a conflict they did not want, look no further than the Chantry and their system of exploitation and oppression over the mages. Put blame on the Chantry for forcing mages into lives they did not choose, and asserting methods of culling and control over them, simply for how they were born. It was the Chantry that gave them no choice whether or not they had a say in staying alive or dying.
And if DA players would still say that the mages could have tried for a more "peaceful route" to alleviate their circumstances (despite seeing how Anders' manifesto, his Darktown clinic, and years of trying to negotiate with Elthina failed and Meredith was calling for Annulment anyway): very rarely do the oppressed win change by pandering to the morals of their oppressors.
Innocent mages were already suffering and being murdered in droves, for centuries. Innocent mages were already involved in this struggle, whether they wanted to be or not. And Anders' actions at the Chantry was like a rallying cry: If we're going to die anyway, then I'd rather die trying to take them down than giving them what they want.
(Also, I have not yet gone into detail on what actually started the mage-templar war, which was the Seekers hiding the cure for Tranquility, and Lord Seeker Lambert's decision to dissolve the Nevarran accord and take the Templars hunting for the free mages across the countryside because he decided dead mages were better than free mages -- because that's a whole separate post.)
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Wynne defending children from the Templars
It’s interesting to reflect on Wynne’s Establishing Character Moment in Dragon Age: Origins, especially in light of the strange whitewashing of the Templar Order in Inquisition as well as her apparently conservative politics.  When we encounter her in Broken Circle (our first interaction with her since the brief chat at Ostagar), we see her fighting to protect a group of young children not only from demons but from the Templars -- the very military force that claims to protect them.  If she is recruited into the party, in fact, we discover that she had already sacrificed her life for them.  She is technically dead/undead and only kept standing due to possession by a spirit of Faith.
As soon as the party enters the door, she’s fearful that the Warden has come to kill them all on behalf of Knight-Commander Greagoir, and depending on player choices/intentions, she may in fact be correct.  
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Wynne: It’s you!  No... come no further.  Grey Warden or no, I will strike you down where you stand!
Warden: Wynne - what are you doing here?
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Wynne: I am a mage of the Circle.  More importantly, why are you here?  The templars would not let just anyone by.
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Warden: You have children with you.
Wynne: The tower is a place of learning.  Young apprentices are always here.  Why is that surprising?
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Wynne: But this is no time to discuss that.  Why are you here?  Why did the templars let you in?
Warden: I am helping Greagoir resolve the Circle’s difficulties.
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Wynne: Then you do serve the templars as I feared.  Do they have the Right of Annulment?
Warden: The Right of Annulment?
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Wynne: The order from the grand cleric allowing the templars to completely annul a Circle.  Do they have it?
Warden: No, but Greagoir expects it to arrive soon.
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Wynne: So Greagoir thinks the Circle is beyond hope.  He probably assumes we are all dead.  
Wynne: They abandoned us to our fate, but even trapped as we are, we have survived.  If they invoke the Right, however, we will not be able to stand against them.
Warden: It’s nothing less than this Circle deserves.
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Wynne:  Do these children deserve death too?  Will they die by your hand?
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Warden: Mages are a danger.  If I had a say, you would all be culled.
Wynne: Kill us solves nothing, but with training and education, mages learn to control their powers.
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Wynne: You’re mad if you think I’ll let you lay a finger on these children.  If will fight you if you won’t listen to reason.
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Wynne: I am not afraid of you.
Warden: This Circle must be destroyed, for all our sakes.
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Wynne: If you insist on making war on the Circle, we have nothing more to discuss.  It comes to blows, then.  I will stop you or die trying.
BONUS - terrified child fleeing from being murdered:
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Commentary
While Wynne can be condescending and sometimes preachy in her support for the Circle, her dialogue both here and elsewhere indicates that she has no illusions about the Templars keeping them locked inside.  
After all, they imprisoned her in Kinloch Hold since she was a young child, took her own child away from her forever, and threatened to slaughter both her and the other children she was mentoring in her son’s stead.  If recruited into the party, she opens up about the despair she felt as a girl when she realized she would be trapped there forever, and it was only by turning to the religious faith that was being forced on all mages in the tower that she began to make peace with her fate.  She knows that if the Libertarian Fraternity successfully leads a vote for independence from the Chantry, the Templars will simply kill them all.  She even uses the term “genocide” to describe what will happen.  She explicitly cites this as the reason why she opposes the independence vote. 
The mages will never be free! The Chantry would never allow it. Our only hope for survival is to show them we can be trusted! Don’t you remember what happened to the Circle in Ferelden? Do you want to give the templars another excuse to call for the culling of all mages?
She doesn’t reject freedom for her fellow mages for any personal advantage, throwing others like her under the bus to reap the rewards of brown-nosing.  If she wanted any semblance of power or status, after all, she would have accepted the post of First Enchanter (or second-in-line to it) a long time ago.  As of Dragon Age Origins, she has consistently rejected the opportunity to become Irving’s successor.  As of the end of Broken Circle, if she joins the party and defeats Uldred’s rebels, she still needs to ask for permission just to temporarily leave the tower, despite having proven her loyalty and competence beyond any reasonable doubt both here and over the past thirty or so years of incarceration.  It takes helping the Hero of Ferelden save the entire country by defeating the Archdemon to convince the Templars to allow her to come and go freely - an opportunity that, as her own son later points out, no one else has had or probably ever would have in their lifetime (and one, as the only the player knows, that is entirely conditional on player choices).
The only context in which she ever even considers fighting the Templars is when she has no other way of preventing the Templars from killing them all anyways - both during Broken Circle and in the climax of Asunder.
Her politics are, in the end, based on fear.
Not the usual fear of the Other or fear of social change that hamper normal politics, but the completely rational fear, as someone at/near the bottom of the social hierarchy, about what the authorities will do to her and everyone like her if they step out of line.  As it turns out, she’s not wrong about what the powers that be are and how they will react - she’s only wrong about the potential for a better future and the rewards of fighting for it.
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bluerose5 · 11 months
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I think this is my first time going to the Gallows in Act 3 for this playthrough. Then again, that's from what I remember because I took a break from playing, but this is all sooooo normal. Nothing unnerving here. Kirkwall is just an extreme example, of course. The mage-templar conflict is a morally complex one, hardly a black-and-white/cut-and-dry issue. Let's go consult with Elthina again. Maybe her thoughts and prayers will work this time. 🥺
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tea42 · 2 years
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Dragon Age Thoughts: Templar Carver instead of Cullen in DAI
I know I've heard the idea for switching Cullen and Samson, but I was drifting off into my 'what if world' dragon age edition and was imagining that if Carver became a Templar in DA2 it could have made sense for him to be in the Cullen role. Even if he was relatively fresh he could have 'proven himself' at DAII endgame. Cullen rose in rank similarly quickly after DAO. It would have felt better to have a Templar who was not on board with the Chantry line and had him be very critical since they went the other way with focusing on loyalist Mages. It would have been more balance if, you know, they were actually not trying to push you towards a specific narrative.
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radbanditgooplight · 2 years
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Hey, so let’s remember that little scene where you are coming back from the Hinterlands meeting Mother Giselle and you run into the confrontation outside Haven’s Chantry between the Inquisition’s Mages and Templars.
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So both sides are hurtling accusations at each other. I’ll note that its the Templars that seem to be initiating the confrontation and is overall far more hostile than the mage in this scene, but lets note what happens next.
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This templar bastard goes for his sword!
This guy is part of the minority of templars that didn’t join the Templar Order’s “purge the mages” campaign.
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Why, oh, why should I give the templars any authority? Ever!?
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crunchbuttsteak · 2 years
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One of the things in Dragon Age that the Templars like to say is that Mages are vulnerable to temptation by demons and that’s why they have to violently oppress them.
But the fucked up part of that is that when you play the broken circle questline, a good number of your fights are against templars who have been ensorcelled by demons.
The exact thing that they were so afraid of happened to mages.
So I guess THAT was a big fucking lie.
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maleficarlife · 2 years
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A PSA from Ignis Hawke
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platoniccereal · 2 years
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everybody knows that leandra's death is just another tool for bioware's agenda of grey morality (whether it's just a rushed decision or something they really considered a good idea). but only in my new run years later i notice how it's incredibly funny and obvious if you never even start to blame magic.
and then it must be veeery unsettling for hawke in-game. the game makes sure every time that it gives the opportunity to blame magic. when you don't choose it, it comes across as every pro-templar person – from hawke's friend circle to authorities – is using their mother's body to shield their views.
my hawke didn't say a word about dangers of magic and didn't have even a thought to do that, yet every second pro-templar person he encounters decides to do this for him! to use his mother's death for their political gain! or to prove their point! as if it's a valid argument when the mourning person doesn't say anything about that himself! agdaghfvsd.
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anneapocalypse · 11 months
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Honestly something that really affected my view of Varric (and again, I say this with great love for the character) was playing my Terrible Hawke, Emilia, who ends the game an absolute anti-mage fanatic who believes that magic is a curse and it was a blessing that the Maker called Bethany back to His side before she could fall to demons. She is a Hawke who is mainly diplomatic, well-spoken, respected, and absolutely unhinged in her views on magic. She is the Viscount of Kirkwall, and by the time she comes to the Inquisition she's also taken Chantry vows and become an actual templar (after having practiced the discipline off the books for years). She singlehanded kept Kirkwall under Chantry control after Meredith's death. She slaughtered every mage to a one, even the ones who surrendered.
She's Varric's best friend. And he's just as starry-eyed about her in Inquisition as he is about any other Hawke. I love what a deeply unsettling side of Varric that is to see.
She's the best. She's a hero. She saved his city.
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meowmeowmage · 1 year
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The Chantry explosion being Hawke's catharsis
One handers (doesn't have to be handers but imo it works best like that) take/headcanon about the end fo DA2 that I haven't seen before is that the Chantry explosion is a catharsis for Hawke, that it feels both freeing and relieving to him. I'll elaborate. This is all about pro-mage (probably red) Hawke btw.
Hawke is not exactly a man with a plan. Things just happen to him (Varric approaches him for the Deep Roads expedition, the qunari try to take over Kirkwall, etc). He only makes decisions when a situation is presented to him, but never really tries to steer events in a certain way unprompted. In Act 3 Hawke has a reputation and social sway due to being Champion. But those don't mean much bc politically (and in terms of actual power in the form of a templar army) Elthina and Meredith are in charge, and nobody can do anything against them. Not really. And not in the violent police/dictatorship state that Mereedith is running.
Hawke gets blackmailed into helping Meredith, and would've probably gotten blackmailed again and again until he was forced to do something he would hate himself for, or refused and Meredith had him removed from the picture. The latter would've caused a stir among the people but ultimately nothing would've changed bc Meredith has Kirkwall by the throat. Hawke would've been accused of something (blood magic, harbouring apostates, doesn't really matter) bc in Act 3 the templars are killing people left and right for whatever. Hawke just has way more protection bc of his status, but that's not infinite.
So Hawke in Act 3 is stuck between a rock and a hard place. But he's not a planner. He doesn't even know where to start in order to fix the situation. Red!Hawke specifically realizes that war is inevitable, but he doesn't know how to bring everything to a boil, especially not to a situation in which those against the templars would have as close to equal grounds as possible for a fight. But Anders does. Anders has a plan and Hawke knows that. So he waits for Anders to present him with a situation.
And when the Chantry goes boom, that situation is finally presented. The choice is clear. And Hawke feels relief bc now he knows exactly what he needs to do. It's catharsis bc it's the relief from years worth of stress. The feeling of constant pressure, uncertainty and frustration - all released now. It's time to act.
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squirrelwithatophat · 2 years
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Did you know that there are whipping posts in the Kirkwall Gallows?
They’re rather easy for players to miss. You can see them in the background during The Last Straw (Act 3), and as early as Act 1 (and continuing into Act 2), Circle mages can be heard complaining, “Don’t talk to me. The templars will give me thirty lashes if they see me speaking to a civilian.” During the quest A Noble Agenda (Act 3), a woman reports seeing a mage cousin “whipped, half-starving” while pleading for mercy from a literal “death squad.”
In-universe, however, the whippings in the Gallows appear to be common knowledge. During Repentance (Act 2), we can see a whipping post (the exact same model observed in the Gallows later on) being used for sexual roleplay in the Harimann Estate in Hightown.
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Lord Harimann: Now, you be the naughty apprentice, and I’ll be the Templar torturer.
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It’s Played For Laughs here of course, but it really says something that citizens of Kirkwall know about Templar abuses in the Gallows and just how awful conditions are there — including the use of whipping posts. This isn’t even the only instance in the game of random NPCs referring to the severity of the repression and the rampant cruelty.
For example…
During The Destruction of Lothering (Prologue):
Hawke: I heard someone call this fortress the Gallows. Is it a prison?
Guardsman Wright: Used to be, back in the Imperial days. They kept slaves here until the rebellion. Now the templars run it and use it to lock up their mages. Guess not much has changed.
Outside Lirene’s shop, during Tranquility (Act 1):
Refugee: Hey! We heard you in there. Asking about the healer. We know what happens to mages in this town. And it ain't gonna happen to him.
Speaking to the sister of a Templar during Enemies Among Us (Act 1):
Macha: Keran was always so devout, so idealistic. He was so proud when the templars accepted him. I pleaded with him not to join the Order, but he wouldn't listen. You hear dark rumors about the templars and Knight-Commander Meredith. And now my brother is gone.
Hawke: (“Are templars so bad here?”) In Lothering, some templars died protecting villagers. I never heard any dark rumors.
Macha: And those are the stories my Keran adored. But it is not like that here, serah. There is a growing darkness in the order. They prowl the streets in packs. Hunting. And now, they say their duties put them above us, that they have the right to... take people from their homes. It is frightening.
Hawke: (“Tell me about Meredith”) What do people say about Knight-Commander Meredith?
Macha: Oh, she has many admirers. They laud the service she does in keeping the mages in check. But others say she is terribly fierce and utterly without pity. That she sees demons everywhere. It is dangerous even to whisper such things.
During Wayward Son (Act 1):
Feynriel: Look, I know it's different in other kingdoms, but here... no one helps Circle mages. Anything the templars don't like, you get the brand.
During Underground Railroad (Act 2):
Hawke: Helping apostates is dangerous. If the templars caught you...
Mistress Selby: One of my sisters is a mage. A gentle child, so generous. She was made Tranquil last year. Templars claimed she was a danger. Now... it's like she's not there. That shouldn't be forced on anyone.
In Sundermount (Act 3), if Feynriel escapes to Tevinter:
Arianni: I hear the templars have grown more abusive of the mages in Kirkwall. I'm glad Feynriel is no longer subject to their whims.
By the Docks, any Act:
Unnamed Woman: I feel sorry for the mages sometimes, you know? What a terrible thing, to be used by everyone.
Knight-Captain Cullen even admits that the common folk suspect them and have become hostile towards the Templars. There’s this exchange in Act 1:
Hawke: The templars defend us all.
Cullen: That's a surprisingly unpopular viewpoint. It used to be that templars were welcomed wherever they went—for defending people from dark magics. Now the townsfolk are as likely to slam their doors as offer us a bed. The image of the poor, chained apprentice is a powerful one. And one the mages are more than willing to exploit.
Then there’s the codex for the Mage Underground (available in Dissent, Act 2), written by Cullen:
Every Circle in Thedas suffers from individual mages who rebel and attempt to flee… Until now, I have never served anywhere that the populace does not fully cooperate in hunting these rebels. Here in Kirkwall, citizens actually help rebel mages escape.
In World of Thedas vol. 2 (p. 173), from a note dated 9:25 (set between Acts 2-3) from a mage of the Hossberg Circle in the far away Anderfels: 
I have heard that in the Kirkwall Gallows, mages are locked in their cells with barely room to stretch, let alone exercise.  I can promise you that any mage of the Anderfels would be stark raving mad after a week of such treatment... No wonder Kirkwall has such trouble with blood mages.
Even relative newcomers recognize the situation right away. For example, when speaking to Grand Cleric Elthina in the Chantry (Act 1):
Hawke: Why are Circle mages here kept in a Tevinter prison?
Elthina: Ah. So soon you take an interest in our problems. The short answer is, it was a building. A large one. Should it have sat empty? The Chantry found a use for what was once a horror. It is the nature of men to move on and forget the past. Even your Blight will be a distant memory in our lifetimes.
Isabela: “Once a horror?” Yes, I'm sure it's filled with flowers and sunshine and happiness now.
Even Fenris, who supports Meredith’s policies, immediately notices (first entry into the Gallows, Act 1 or 2):
Fenris: I've... heard about the Circle of Magi outside of the Imperium, but I've never been in one. This seems more like a prison. I wonder if it's more effective than the Circle I know.
Given all this, it’s hard to believe that the people in power in Kirkwall don’t know (or at the very least suspect) what’s going on — more likely, they simply just don’t care.
Or perhaps they think it’s acceptable. As Cassandra says of the Seekers of Truth in Inquisition, “We knew what was happening at Kirkwall, where the mage rebellion began. We looked into reports of Knight-Commander Meredith’s harsh treatment of her charges years earlier. But we found so many shocking cases of magical corruption, it was decided her actions were justified.”
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v-arbellanaris · 4 months
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here's the thing, right. like. okay, let's take everything up to the title showing up as the 'origin' style opening for dai, where you establish character. but like. literally what about that opening establishes character. you get brought to the chantry in haven where they briefly discuss executing you before declaring the inquisition. you can either begrudgingly support the people who have actively threatened you repeatedly or you can go uwu i'd love to help you guys out im so excited to be working with you. like. hello.
#throughout most of the haven stuff you don't get to develop your own opinions on anything. key information is shoved into codexes with#no other information or dialogue contradicting what was said. if you do express an opinion the game goes out of it's way to have every#single companion hammer you over the head with the 'correct' opinion. and for some reason they're almost ALL on the same page.#for example. DORIAN advocating for the circles so southern thedas doesn't ''become like tevinter'' like hello what. WHAT.#magic dangerous. apostates bad. blood magic evil. wardens bad. tevinter evil. qunari evil. dalish bad and stupid. ferelden bad and stupid.#chantry good! templars good! seekers good! orlais good! colonialism good!#like somehow. ALL OF THEM.#when it's to that extent like it's clear they're trying to push you towards some kind of conclusion. rather than letting you make your own.#or even be able to express it. AS AN ACTUAL CIRCLE MAGE I CANNOT EXPRESS COHERENT ARGUMENTS TO SUPPORT THE REBELLION.#like HELLO???#sorry but there IS no moment or period in time where the herald gets to establish their character. they're immediately thrown into#the deep end of the plot. you get IMMEDIATELY THROWN into the resolution of the mage-templar war. with barely any info except what you#get from your advisors and companions. and some codexes if you go out of your way to read them. which. considering they push you to go to#val royeaux as soon as possible. is just.#like come on. let's be real here.#tbd#dai critical
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tea42 · 2 years
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Dragon Age Thoughts: Chantry Boom Casualties HC
The actual civilian casualties (non-Chantry) for the explosion were minimal because it happened at night so there was no services on. However, the body count for the conflict immediately following the explosion was added on to the explosion death toll as a way to push responsibility from the Chantry/Templars onto Anders.
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radbanditgooplight · 2 years
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On the Loose: Huon and Evelina
Huon
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Elsa: “Huon is an elf. He was apprehended in the alienage ten years ago. His wife, Nyssa, works for a dressmaker in Lowtown.”
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Elsa: “Huon was taken many years ago. Most of the alienage’s inhabitants do not even know him.”
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Nyssa: “I used to dream of him returning. But not like this. He’s changed, and I don’t know him anymore. I sent him away.”
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Nyssa: “Huon didn’t leave me. He was taken away.”
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Nyssa: “When the templars found out he was a mage they chained him and dragged him from the alienage. In front of everyone.”
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Nyssa: “If he had been himself, I would have taken him back gladly!”
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Nyssa: “Now I’m trapped in this... this sham. Married, but with no husband, and no future.”
Evelina
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Elsa: “Evelina was trained for eight years in the Circle in Ferelden. She was last seen in her former residence among the refugee community in Darktown.”
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Elsa: “Our files indicate she petitioned Meredith for financial support of numerous other pre-adolescent Blight survivors.”
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Walter: “This is our home as much as it is hers. Evelina shared everything she had with us.”
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Walter: “I’m not Evelina. I’m Walter. Evelina was our... friend. She was our mother.”
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Walter: “Evelina found us when the darkspawn came, when our parents died. She made sure we got to Kirkwall safely.”
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Walter: “She didn’t want us to be stuck in Darktown. She wanted to give us a real life.”
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Walter: “But when she went to join the Circle here, they called her apostate for leaving the tower in Ferelden. They locked her up.”
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Walter: “Everyone died in the Blight. Evelina kept picking us up, new children every day, every one she could save.”
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Walter: “She thought the Circle would help her. But they just locked her away.”
Conclusion
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Hawke: “The blame for everything these mages did can be laid at your feet.”
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Hawke: “Look at the way you treat them. Is it any wonder they’re so desperate?”
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Anders: “Maybe if you never took Huon from his wife she wouldn’t be dead!”
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Anders: “Evelina could be alive and with the children she risked everything to save.”
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demigoddessqueens · 10 months
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TikTok tease 😈
Summary: a prank goes wrong. or horribly right 👀?
A/N - found a prank on TikTok where Person A says “I love you” as they’re leaving but Person B pretends to not hear 👂
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Vox Machina
Vax & Vex, Keyleth, Pike and Percy are the types to be like “are you mad 🥺 at me?” before the gig is up
Grog and Scanlan are more than likely to catch on and be like “oh really? This prank works on me?”
Mighty Nein
Jester, Caleb, Yasha, Nott/Veth, Essek are ABSOLUTELY the “are you mad? 🥺” crowd
Fjord and Mollymauk/Kingsley catch on ASAP 😏
Cadeuces is too chill to catch on to it and just goes along with what makes you smile
Bells Hells (and Crown Keepers)
Imogen, Laudna, Orym and Dorian DEFINITELY want to know if you’re mad or not
Chetney, Ashton, Fearne are the chaotic trio who are like “oh nice laugh…oh ok 😏😈”
Assassin’s & Templars
Altair, Evie, Aya & Bayek, Aveline, Eivor, Alexios, Edward immediately catch on to this prank with a “really ? 😑” before lovingly attacking you
Ezio, Connor, Arno, Jacob, Basim, Kassandra, Henry/Jayadeep, Desmond
I feel like Templars, former or current, are the most bratty with a whole “excuse ME! I demand my affection 😤🥺💕.” So Haytham, Shay, Elise and Maria 🗡️ take this one.
Miguel O’Hara 🕷️
Oh he’s annoyed but in a cute way! Goes from “are you mad at me? 🥺” to fixing the problem to catching on it’s a prank and is lovingly amused and annoyed with your antics
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maleficarlife · 2 years
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hey! i don't think we've really talked, but your red schism au reminded me i have a fic planned where hawke takes advantage of meredith's madness and public sympathy to overthrow Meredith with anders help and Kirkwall is where the mage rebellion goes instead of redcliffe
Ok that' amazing! If you ever get to write the fic, I would love to have a link! I have always had problems with the way Bioware forces the player to rebuild chantry power and with the existance of an Inquisition which is why I had the Red Schism AU, which is obviously inspired by the protestant reform, in good and bad. Ignis does something very similar to what you said by allying with Petrice against common enemies, which allows them to basically move against Justinia when she is forced to actually call an Exalted March on Kirkwall -a dlc fighting the march was actually intended by bioware and only deleted because they were moving to a new system to make Inquisition and couldn't support both- at which point thanks to the events of Mark of the Assassins going differently (Prosper is alive, Tallis is dead, Ignis has the list of qunari spies and sells it to Nevarra) they also get Nevarra on their side. So it's basically a continental war with Nevarra, Kirkwall, Wycome, Ansburg and Kaiten on one side and Ostwick, Tantervale, Starkheaven and the Anderfels on the other. Luckily for my peace of mind, the Inquisition never happens, instead they get a secular alliance who is very similar to the Inquisition but not andrastian in nature.
In the Red Schism AU Redcliffe still happens but the vote only concerns the mages that resides in the Circles that kept their loyalty to Justinia. It's still pretty important as an event, since once that happens the White Chantry basically loses much of their combat capacity. Honestly Bioware canon saying all the mages were in Redcliffe always confused me, since I dont really think Redcliffe has enough space for all of them. So I'm glad to see others ignore that!
If you want to/have time I would love to hear more about your fic and which kind of Hawke will be in it!
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