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accio-victuuri · 3 years

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The GG & Li-Ning & Xianjiang Cotton Situation

I was asked to give my opinion. This is also for other bxgs who may have the same sentiment. You don’t have to agree with me but i hope you respect whatever it is I choose to share here. This is my blog and my space. I maintain this out of my pure enjoyment of the fandom and all the good it has given me. So let me address some of the points.

Li-Ning boasts their use of XinJiang Cotton

My simple answer here is, of course they will. This is not something new. Li-Ning is a celebrated olympic medal winning gymnast. A billionaire. You don’t get to that place in CHN w/out supporting the government’s agenda. In this case, that there is no injustice and persecution going on in Xinjiang. This brand, boasting about China made cotton, in their terms, shows patriotism and support for their country. This brand’s literal goal at first was to provide a local brand for Chinese athletes to wear in the Olympics. This is also not the first time that Li-Ning had been called out along w/ other international brands due to questionable ethical practices.

I find it very hard to believe that the timing of GG’s massive Li-Ning ad campaign, coinciding as it has with these Western brand boycotts, was a coincidence.

Let’s get this out of the way. Whether the boycott happened or not, Li-Ning is guaranteed an insane amount of sales because they hired Xiao Zhan. This is the same man who always sells out products in seconds. Who took KXZ to 200% growth and so on. I can talk about stats all day but this massive campaign for him is a no brainer. GG is expensive and a guaranteed success. Any brand who hires him will be stupid to not launch an all out campaign across all cities. Li-Ning knows what they are doing by hiring him. For years, they have been trying to appeal to Gen Z. Especially now that youth in CHN are more and more into the “guochao” (国潮) - National trend. Integrating traditional chinese culture and fashion w/ domestic brands. This ties in with the whole movement of erasing the connotation that made in china is of inferior quality. GG was a good choice. He appeals to the younger generation (19-25) and the working class ( 26 and up ) who buys goods. I would imagine even GG’s team did their research and knows this trend is going on too. This will not be the last you will see of this type of endorsement from him or Web. The rumors on this collaboration was going around as early as, March 15 I think? I was literally asking another bxg if GG’s ad will be pushed back a day or two because of what was happening. or what will this all implies. He was always gonna come out and endorse this brand boycott or not.

I am not removing the possibility that these local brands have a hand in the boycott. It’s a very valid concern. or that, it was a convenient perfect storm for them. A perfect storm of EU, US & CAN sanctioning CHN. The sudden attack on brands’ statements against Xinjiang cotton from a year ago. The whole agenda of controlling the people’s view on what is happening. All of these are connected. sure. There are many things behind the scenes that we will not know but we can make an educated guess of. Li-Ning is not the only domestic brand that had a positive push because of this.

On 3/25 Li-Ning’s stock closed with a high of 10.74% , plus an added 9% on the 26th when GG was announced as ambassador. The same thing happened with Anta and others.

I find it very hard to stomach seeing Li-Ning ads on my dash, regardless of GG’s presence in them. Without condemning him for taking this endorsement deal, and without judging what he is or is not personally aware

I will just be addressing GG’s alleged part in all this. I say that cause we don’t live in his brain and won’t know what he’s thinking. You can all try and project your values on him but he is a whole person of his own. I have hopefully given some view on why GG accepted to endorse this brand in the previous point. GG has spent most if not all, of his life in China. He has repeatedly said that he was brought up traditionally. Tho his father was very encouraging in him participating in the arts and widening his knowledge. He had Foreign professors at CBTU. He is part of the generation that knows what’s going on outside by using the internet. He’s smart. I would guess that he is aware of the country he is living in vs what it’s like outside of it. But at the end of the day, his loyalty will always be with his country. I hate to break it to you all but he will continue to live and thrive as an Actor even without international support. Tho it is great that he is a source of National Pride with how people outside of China love him.

Now, about his support for Xianjiang Cotton. I wanna start by showing this:

It’s a post from People’s Daily wb which boasts all the c-ent top stars that voiced their support of XJ cotton. The sense is, hey people look at your idols supporting the cause. Look at their Patriotism. What do you think will happen if GG was not on this list? Knowing that he is a top star in CHN. Knowing he was just in hot waters post 22*? Knowing that he is actively being endorsed in CCTV which is a National Channel. Are we still surprised that he posted that support? I was just honestly waiting for him to post if anything. I talked before about how C-ent celebrities are expected ( and actually it’s in their law ) to be more morally upright than the lay people. This is prime example of that.

Another one is this from CCTV Wb. I’m including this for you all to have an understanding of how this whole thing is being played out in CHN. This is the type of online narrative that is going around and I would think GG is seeing. The sentiment is,

“No matter what hardships, ups and downs and blows go through in our country, her people will always come from all directions and stand up to speak justice and do just things.”

It’s also showing all the hot searches that is related in support of XJ cotton and defending CHN’s innocence.

Also this video that was heavily circulated showing mechanized picking of cotton vs the allegations of manual.

This is the kind of narrative that is going around, as expected. I don’t really fault GG or condemn him for doing what is best for him. What is the best for an individual does not always mean it’s the best for all. In talks like this, I always try and put myself in their position. I mean, who the hell are these people trying to attack my country? the country that has provided for me. I wanna say I understand where they are coming from but understanding does not mean agreeing. I see these A LOT. ALOT ON WEIBO. The China vs. Everyone story. It’s the notion of, they are attacking us and we must protect the country. Also keep in mind that news is heavily regulated.

You know what type of news the CCP would love for them to get a hold of? The rising attacks on Asians in the US. Oh boy they would fuckin love that! Making America the big/bad asian-hating boogeyman in the eyes of their people yet again.

Okay, now we’re down to the final part of this. Why do I share the promo pics for Li-Ning. Where do i draw the line.

To me it’s simple. It had GG in it. I was waiting for this to come out, and tbh, would you all even know about this brand’s practices if the boycott didn’t happen? No. This is a bjyx blog where i share things about them. That includes ad, dramas, pictures and videos. I understand if people don’t feel comfortable w/ Li-Ning ads and others, so just don’t like those posts. Did I buy anything from the collection? No. Did I buy multiple copies Web’s single Youth in Times ( like i do with his other singles )? No. That’s where I draw the line in this. I know we’re all gonna be put on a tight spot again once Faith Makes Great comes out. Once I saw that leaked pic, Ooohhh! I just know. Also if BAH adds some propaganda about CHN’s war on drugs. I am just waiting. I am ready. I know what my values are. I will not allow other people to dictate who I am. I know what type of content I’m only gonna be sharing.

I see this very forceful air of asking bxgs to take a stand on this ( always bxg, never the other side. always us of course even if we are the minority) and it really puts me off. I read someone say that they will not say anything because they don’t owe strangers on the internet an explanation. Which is true. I have separate spaces that I share my views on world/local issues. Accounts that show my actual name and around people I know in real life. That’s what I choose to do for myself. I started this blog for myself and i still find it very bizarre that people follow this account. I am not some sort of KOL, let’s get that straight. This is just a blog where I talk about things if i want to and SCREAM about GG and Web too much. I will probably not answer any follow up questions on this cause i feel like I have addressed a good chunk of it.

Just know that whatever I post on here in support of GG and his projects does not equate to my entire political/moral stand regarding this event or any. It’s really good that we have conversations like this cause it’s an important one.

Whew! That was a long post! 😅

#ask response

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perspective-series · 5 years

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Meta Perspective (12)

By: @arc852 and @hiddendreamer67

Warnings: None

(Check the reblog for the links to any future chapters)

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“I’m uh, I’m going to finish up dinner,” Patton said, heading back into the kitchen.

Virgil sighed as he turned to sit on the couch. “So, how are you doing after all that?” Virgil asked.

“I’m...alright.” Amanda glanced towards the kitchen doorway. “A little concerned that Patton’s going to just let Roman waltz in here while I’m sleeping. And I’m still reeling over the fact that Allison actually went back to humans, let alone the fact she got caught in the first place.”

“Yeah...It is a little strange you both got caught at the same time.” Virgil admitted. “Especially since it, you know, doesn’t happen often.”

“No, and we were taught that if it did happen we would probably die.” Amanda tilted her head. “Why were our parents so intent on making us constantly fear for our lives?’’

“I mean, I get it. They were just trying to watch out and protect you.” Virgil sighed. “There are some...bad humans out there. You two just happened to get lucky with us.”

“Yeah, and I guess I just got more lucky, then.” Amanda paused, looking down at her wrapped leg. “...sorta.”

Virgil winced. “Yeah...it seems like you got physically injured and Allison got mentally hurt, by the looks of things.”

“Oh good, that sounds fine.” Amanda rolled her eyes. “Wait, did you see Allison when you went over there? How was she?”

“No, she wasn’t there. I guess she really did go back home, like she said she was going to.” Virgil explained with a shrug. “I was glad she wasn’t there though, I wanted to speak to the two of them alone.”

“Just to lecture them about being bad humans?” Amanda guessed.

“Yep.” Virgil had no problems admitting. “They were wrong and they needed to know that.”

“It’s nice to know you’re willing to call humans out like that.” Amanda teased. “Now all I’ve got to do is keep you in line and I’m golden.”

“Please, I do what I want.” Virgil teased.

“Dinner’s ready!” Patton called from the kitchen. Virgil smiled and offered a hand to Amanda.

“I’m sure I can tame even a wild spirit like you.” Amanda threatened, climbing on.

“I would love to see you try,” Virgil smirked, taking her into the kitchen and letting her off on the already set table. Patton was sitting down already, smiling.

“Bon appetit guys! I made us some homemade pizza!”

“Oh, thank you!” Amanda gave the human a larger grin than normal, taking up a tiny section of pizza and looking to Virgil with a quirked eyebrow. “See? I already tamed Patton.”

Patton blinked, a little lost. “Huh?”

“That doesn't count. Patton’s like that with everyone.” Virgil said, grabbing his own slice.

“Patton, who are you more loyal to, Virgil or me?” Amanda asked, taking a bite.

Patton froze. “Uhh…” Virgil turned to face Patton.

“Yeah, Pat. Who?” Virgil asked.

“Well uh...I refuse to answer.” Patton decided.

“Say Virgil tried to keep me,” Amanda suggested, raising an eyebrow. “Do you listen to him, or do you let me go?”

“I’d let you go,” Patton said, barely even thinking about it.

Virgil frowned. “Hey!”

Patton turned to him with a shrug. “Sorry kiddo, but it would just be wrong to keep someone like Amanda and you know it,” Virgil muttered under his breath as he crossed his arms but he couldn’t help but agree.

“I win,” Amanda said smugly, tearing into her food with a grin.

“Yeah, whatever,” Virgil muttered, taking another bite.

“Anyway,” Patton spoke up, wanting to change the subject. “Amanda, what do you want to do after dinner?”

“Um, I’m not sure.” Amanda admitted, having not thought that far ahead. “Something fun, I guess.”

“Well...you’ve played a video game, maybe you want to play a board game?” Patton asked.

“What sort of board game?” The borrower asked, already looking eager.

“Oh, we’ve got a ton!” Patton stood up and headed towards the hall closest, getting down a bin full of board games. “Let’s see...we have Life, Monopoly, Apples to Apples, Clue, Battleship, and a couple of other ones.” Patton listed.

“Once again, uh...I know what none of that means.” Amanda wiped her hands off on her pant leg. “But I’ll play whatever you think will be fun.”

“Life could be interesting.” Virgil pointed out. He turned to look at Amanda. “It basically lets you go through a human life and make choices and stuff like that.” He figured the borrower would at least find it interesting.

“How does that work?” Amanda tilted her head. “I thought we were just going to play a game.”

“I think it’s better if we showed you!” Patton exclaimed. He took the game out and started to set it up on the coffee table. Virgil looked down at Patton’s half-eaten slice of pizza and rolled his eyes before finishing up his own and offering a hand to Amanda.

Amanda climbed on, noting vaguely how much better her leg was doing. It was amazing how a day of rest could do wonders on such an injury, especially given how fast borrowers usually healed. She might be able to unwrap it entirely tonight.

Virgil walked over and set her down on the coffee table and then went to sit on the floor. Patton had already managed to set everything up and was now pointing at the wheel in the middle. “Okay! We’ll let you go first. Just spin this wheel and move the number of squares that it lands on!” Patton explained.

“Um, okay.” Amanda followed the instructions as best she could, spinning the wheel with a grunt. Amanda peered over the edge, glancing at the number before picking up her piece and walking to the correct spot.

“Oh! Okay, so this is where you have to choose. Do you want to go to college or just get a job?” Patton asked.

“Why does that matter?” Amanda asked. “What’s the difference?”

“Well, if you go to college you can get better jobs.” Virgil pointed out. “But if you get a job, you start making money earlier and you don’t have to worry about loans.”

“Why do I need money?” Amanda remembered hearing the term once or twice, but to a borrower, things like currency had no value. “And what are loans?”

“Wait, you don’t know how money works?” Virgil asked eyebrow raised.

“No, why?” Amanda looked between the humans, feeling she was missing something. “Should I?”

Virgil turned to Patton. “Maybe we should play something else. Not involving money.” He suggested and Patton frowned but nodded.

“Okay, um...battleship?” That should be fun and relatively easy, right?

“No, we don’t have to stop!” Amanda waved her hands. She didn’t want them to give her some sort of handicap game just because she was a little behind on human culture. “I can learn money!”

“...Alright. Patton?” Virgil handed the floor to him and Patton bit his lip.

“Well, we use money to buy things. Food, furniture and in this case, we buy the ability to go to college and learn in order to get a degree to get a job and earn more money.” Patton did his best to explain.

“Wait, so if you have money, you can just get stuff?” Amanda said.

“Well, if you have enough.” Patton continued. “Everything has a price and if you don’t have enough money you can’t get something.”

“But that’s where loans come in.” Virgil picked up. “Though, loans are only used for huge expenses like college or buying a house. Basically, the government gives you money to pay with but then you have to pay it back in monthly amounts.”

“So why is money so valuable?” Amanda asked, beginning to get the idea. It was like trading. “What does it do? Why do people want it?”

“The more money you have, the more things you can get. The nicer the things you can get.” Virgil shrugged. “But also it’s essential for humans to live and buy things you need, so that’s mostly why people want it.”

“No I get that, but why is money itself worth anything?” Amanda rephrased her question. “If it’s worth so much in trading, it must be quite useful indeed. Otherwise, why collect it at all?”

“Uhh...well...it’s useful for buying things. That’s it. That’s it’s only purpose.” Virgil tried to explain.

“Yeah, I think it’s worth has something to do with how much our government has in gold? Not sure.” Patton jumped in.

“...sounds fake, but okay.” Amanda shrugged. Perhaps there really were some human concepts she would never understand.

“So, college or job?” Patton asked again.

“It sounds like a job is better.” Amanda pointed out. “Because then I get money and I don’t get loans...right?”

“Well, for some people yeah. Others though, think it’s better to go to college to get a better job and even more money.” Patton explained.

“Despite the fact they’ll be in debt for the rest of their lives.” Virgil muttered.

“Okay, well I’ll do job.” Amanda decided, pushing her piece into place.

Patton nodded and went ahead and drew three cards from the job pile. He laid them out in front of Amanda. “Alright, so now you get to pick one! Looks like your choices are retail worker, artist or a flight attendant!”

“What are those? Does it matter?” Amanda asked, inspecting the cards.

“Well, they all have different salaries under them, so you should probably take the one that gives you the most money. And that seems to be the flight attendant.” Virgil pointed out.

“Oh, that’s a fun job! They basically get to be in an airplane all day, going all over the place!” Patton chimed in.

“What’s an airplane?” Amanda asked, lifting up the card. The art was pretty, in its own way. Amanda would certainly try on an outfit like that if she found the right doll clothes. Of course, that was the same for most human outfits.

“Uhh...have you ever seen anything other than a bird flying in the sky? Something that looked like metal? Or maybe you’ve heard the sound of something loud in the air?” Virgil tried.

“Um…” Amanda tried to think back to if she had ever seen such a thing. “Well, sometimes the stars move. Is that the same thing?”

“Yeah! That’s a plane!” Patton exclaimed with a grin. “It’s like this big metal ship with wings that humans control and fly through the air with. That’s how humans get to far away places sometimes.”

“Oh that is so cool.” Amanda’s eyes widened. “So you made your own birds? I’ve always thought that would be fun, but Allison would never let me try and ride one.”

Virgil winced. “Um...yeah, I think I can see why.” Sure it sounded cool but the execution could be very dangerous.

“Basically! It’s just a faster way to get around. Hey! Maybe we could bring you on one sometime!” Patton said with a large grin. Virgil frowned.

“Uh...Maybe not. TSA would find Amanda in a heartbeat.” Virgil said and Patton frowned.

“Oh, right.”

“Who is TSA?” Amanda asked, trying not to feel deflated. She would have loved to ride the metal bird.

“Security. They have things that can see inside bags and stuff, so I’m sure they would spot a tiny person.” Virgil said. “So, not a good idea, sorry. We could always take you on some more car rides though.” Virgil said with a shrug.

“Yeah, I guess.” Amanda shrugged. “I mean, it’s no sky, but it would be cool to be in a car and actually see what’s happening.”

“Oh! And maybe we can take a trip somewhere! That could be fun, right?” Patton exclaimed. He had been bummed about not being able to fly too but the idea of taking a vacation with the borrower sounded even better.

“Ooh, that could be fun!” Amanda clapped her hands excitedly, thrilled at the idea of how far she could travel with a human’s help. After all, she had already gone over several blocks away with them when traveling to school, and that was further than Amanda ever expected to go in a lifetime. “Where should we go? And when?”

“Well, we would have to wait until the semester ends but uh...we could go to disney?” Virgil suggested. It was the place to go for vacations after all.

Patton’s eyes lit up. “Yes! We could go to Disney! Oh, that would be so much fun!”

“Yes! Disney!” Amanda found herself caught up in the excitement, only to slowly take a step back when she remembered she was out of her element. “...what’s Disney?”

“Oh, don’t let Roman hear you say that,” Virgil said as Patton decided to take out his phone and look it up, their board game all but forgotten. He held the phone in front of Amanda.

“This is Disney.” Patton said with a grin.

Amanda’s eyes widened, looking at the image on Patton’s phone. “You’re telling me that’s an actual place?” The castle looked like it came straight out of one of the fairytales from Amanda’s childhood.

“Oh yeah.” Virgil said with a smirk. “They’ve got rides, so much food, some live shows, etc, etc.” He said.

Patton grinned. “It isn’t called the happiest place on earth for nothing, you know.”

“Yes, yes I want to go there.” Amanda pressed her finger into the screen eagerly.

“Then I’m sure we can make it happen.” Virgil chuckled. “Though it will be another two months before we can go but I guess it’s good to plan ahead.”

“Yeah! Though uh, fair warning, if we go I’m thinking Roman and Logan are going to want to come with us.” Patton said. Knowing Roman wouldn’t miss the chance to go to Disney and Logan wouldn’t want to be left behind. Besides, he liked disney just as much as the rest of them.

“...oh.” Amanda hadn’t really considered that.

“But you shouldn’t let that deter you!” Patton was quick to say. “Like I said, they aren’t bad people...and if you really want you don’t have to be anywhere near them. You can just stick with me or Virgil.”

“Mhm.” Amanda had to also remember that it wouldn’t be for several months. That was a long time; Amanda couldn’t be sure she would even still be living with Patton and Virgil. After all, by then her leg would have certainly healed. And there was Allison to consider, who may want to move because of the same humans who now wanted to piggyback on Amanda’s Disney adventure.

“Well, I suppose we can always figure it out later.” Amanda shrugged.

“Right, yeah, we have plenty of time.” Patton agreed. He put his phone away before noticing the board game and remembering they had been playing. “Oh, right! The board game!” He turned to Amanda. “Still up to play?”

“...yeah.” Amanda snapped out of her thoughts, turning to the game at hand. “Let’s play.”

#gt #Giant/tiny #thomas sanders #sanders sides #infinitesimal!sides #au #borrowers #human!virgil #human!patton #human!roman #human!logan #borrower!amanda #borrower!allison #platonic #meta perspective #part 12

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paradife-loft · 4 years

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the other day, I was discussing with @the-mirador about how there was one section in The Golden Compass that I had a lot of thoughts & feelings about during rereading, and wanted to get to at further length than I could really do with just a phone keyboard. having a feeling this would a) be really goddamn long and b) be of interest to other people as well, I decided to just write a public post! so - slightly belatedly, here’s James Rants About The Dialogue Between Lee Scoresby and Serafina Pekkala.

(disclaimer: while I have vague recollections of the subsequent two books in the trilogy, emphasis here on the word vague. some of what I’m saying here may be addressed or dealt with by material from Subtle Knife or Amber Spyglass that I don’t remember right now. this is entirely a “reactions to TGC without knowledge of what comes next” post.)

this dialogue starts out with Lee asking Serafina whether it’s likely the people in his balloon are going to be attacked further if they continue on their current course of action, because going into outright war wasn’t the expedition he signed up and was paid for, and specifically armed conflict would likely do damage to his balloon - his means of making a living, which he’d have to repair on his own dime without the usual reimbursement of wartime pay.

Serafina, to answer this, starts talking about how well, actually everybody is already engaged in war whether they know it or not; she also a bit later explains how choices in the way Lee talks about mean less to witches because they live for hundreds of years and “know that every opportunity will come again”. additionally, contrasting with Lee’s concern with whether he’s charged enough for his transport contracts to make up his expenses, she talks about how witches “have different needs” from humans and so aren’t concerned with profit and value, having “no means of exchange apart from mutual aid” - because all they need to do to fly is take a branch from an abundantly present tree (instead of making all manner of costly repairs to a piece of technology), and they have no need for warm clothing because they don’t feel the cold.

and honestly? this pisses me right the fuck off. I don’t even necessarily disagree with the larger points Serafina is making about how everyone is bound up in the events happening in their time and can’t just push away their involvement because oh I didn’t choose to get into a war - no, you didn’t, but it’s what’s happening and burying your head in the sand in response is going to have consequences just as actively participating would. but g-d do I find it desperately obnoxious when a person or group who operates on a different scale of concern from day-to-day people (or their relevant contextual stand-in), voices this “wise”, implicitly narratively valorised point of view that the regular person’s mundane, venal concerns like how to make a living, whether they’re being given enough information to go into a situation with some amount of agency, whether they’re being taken advantage of and then hung out to dry or not, are shortsighted and petty and immaterial in the face of Destiny TM.

I mean maybe this is just that I’m an adult now who pays fucking rent and not a kid going starry-eyed at the invocation of the concept of witches, but boy did reading Lee Scoresby’s perspective here give me a massive “ahahaha well I guess I sure am American, aren’t I” sense of fuckor.

(but also? big-picture concerns and day-to-day livability concerns aren’t mutually exclusive. it’s come up repeatedly in pieces of Torah and Talmud study groups I’ve attended, places where Jewish law and discussion express ethical living, holiness, in the minutiae of legal arguments over water rights, how to properly materially compensate a person for the loss of a resource they use to live! doing right by others is a matter of learning about these kinds of details, because they have dramatic impacts on the quality of life of people all around you. these things are what make a society good to live in.)

second point that pisses me off: the idea of mutual aid arising only from beings of a different nature from humans entirely, who don’t need to deal with such pesky things as limited time and resource scarcity and bodies subject to the elements, of course not~ like fuck. give me the mutual aid that is a struggle. give me the mutual aid of people who understand the difficulty and the costs and care, desperately, how they can figure out the best way to equitably distribute limited time and resources to the people who need them, in frail and fragile and limited mortal bodies. I don’t want this kind of utopianism in the original sense of the word, where you need to escape the nature of humans’ present conditions of existence to get to an otherwise nonexistent place. Mutual Aid in the initial Kropotkin discussion is about a strategy of cooperation in and amongst the natural world, a method of survival among humans and other animals that are still entirely subject to these weaknesses that witches are not. don’t make it into a way of living that’s wise and superior and unreachable.

....oh, and speaking of human nature, another part that made me want to scream a lot, in the subsequent conversation between Serafina and Lyra: Serafina talks about how there was a time when she would have traded her existence as a witch to be with Farder Coram as a human wife, though it’s impossible because “you cannot change what you are, only what you do”. or: a reinforcement of the narrative’s turning up its nose at Iofur Raknison who wishes to interact with humans on human terms, and forsakes “innate bear-ness” for a ~sad pale mockery of humanness that leaves him and his following less than either proper human or bear. because that’s the damn thing: if you can’t change your nature, and you can either embrace your nature or refuse it and become less than, then no, you don’t actually have the opportunity to change what you do! it’s either “be what you’re supposed to or else you’ll just suck I guess”. (Lee Scoresby frames things in terms of free will which I don’t agree with because I’m a dang materialist bastard, but motherfuck am I ragefully on his side here on the topic of “let people have an actual choice!”)

like, this is my real 100% ride-or-die position on this: fuck “whatever your fundamental nature is”. do mad science! learn how to take a bear and turn him into a human if that’s what he wants! (don’t fucking set up a disgusting hierarchy of “humans are the best and any other sentients will at best be tolerated with tittering amused snobbery while we manipulate them for our own gain“ so that the desire to become a human is fundamentally a coerced one; don’t set up a dang child-mutilation compound out in the tundra to avoid getting slapped on the wrist by your IRB. but y’know, besides that shit.) if a person wants to change something about who or what they are - setting aside discussions of societal coercion that don’t present each option as equally viable because that’s a whole big and important thing but it’s not the point I’m making here - then in abstraction before we get to questions about the repercussions in other parts of We Live In A Society, it is a good thing to look for a way to help them do it. I’m a transhumanist. fuck nature, fuck destiny, fuck limits.

so, I don’t know. perhaps you can make the case that nobody here is an unbiased narrator supported by the story itself; these are just perspectives about what is right that are shaped invariably by the fact that in this universe for the time being, destiny and fate and immutable natures do exist, and basically every culture most of the characters come from has instilled into them, you’ve just gotta make your peace with that. I don’t think I agree with that argument, which is a large part of why these parts of the story make me as angry as they do; there doesn’t seem to be thusfar any indication that fighting against the determinism of “your nature” is particularly admirable. (I say this even in the context of Lord Asriel’s last speech to Mrs. Coulter, honestly, because in this metaphysical reality that he accepts where Adam and Eve and original sin are real things, the idea of humans free from sin doesn’t seem impossible by nature, only by history and the tyranny of decisions made by people and institutions.)

anyway, I think that’s about it for now. so in conclusion, fuck this noise, fuck that noise, this metaphysical-narrative stance makes me angry, and good night! :D

#James liveblogs books #meta #rambling #op #I'm curious to see what happens in TSK and TAS and how that modifies what I'm saying here tbh #because WOW if there aren't substantial changes made.... I'm much pissier about the metaphysics of this setting and story than I used to be #His Dark Materials /

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momestuck · 5 years

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Epilogues: Candy, chapters 6-13 [the rest of Epilogue 2]

I’m told that there are 40 chapters, and a postscript, in Candy - and also that it’s split into 8 individual ‘epilogues’ within that, of varying length. ‘Epilogue 2′ began with chapter 4, featuring Rose and Kanaya. So I kind of cut it off in exactly the wrong place. Oops!

Anyway I’m going to split these up by Epilogue section from now on. This one covers the rest of Epilogue 2, which mostly concerns shipping, and processing of feelings.

Here are the irons in the fire at the outset of chapter 6:

Gamzee is back! he claims to be setting out on a ‘redemption arc’

Terezi is in space somewhere looking for Vriska, but set to return at some point, and not all that happy that Gamzee’s back

Dirk has perceived some bad news. And briefly spoken about it with Jane, though without explaining anything.

But that’s all Epilogue 1 stuff - old hat!

Rose has suddenly recovered from her illness, and is patching things up with Kanaya

Jade has attempted to push Dave and Karkat to admit they’re into each other, but really just made things worse

Jane attempted to run for President of Earth C - to the trepidation of the Karkat, who hyperbolically suggested this would amount to troll genocide - but abandoned the idea

That’s all interesting but let’s talk about money! This is something I didn’t pick up on in the last post:

KARKAT: OK, SO LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT. YOUR PRIORITIES ARE: NUMBER ONE, THE ECONOMY, WHICH LET ME REMIND YOU IS BUILT ENTIRELY ON INFINITE, FAKE MONEY THAT WE CAN MAKE AS MUCH OF AS WE WANT.

Elsewhere, Jane’s megacorp and stocks are mentioned.

One wonders why, given the machinery to manufacture just about anything by means of alchemizer, the forms of money, stocks, and corporations are retained... what sort of productive and reproductive labour is regulated and mediated by these markets? Or are they merely acting out the vestigial forms of capitalism as a bizarre drama...

As for the consequences of an infinite money supply, let’s not get into the ‘modern monetary theory’ debate on a Homestuck post, maybe.

on to chapter 6+

This is a Jane chapter. It opens almost immediately with economic discussion; Dave apparently once accused Jane of ‘neoliberal corporate welfare’ for trying to bolster the ‘struggling locksmith industry’ rendered unnecessary on a planet without crime.

She’s visiting Jake, who’s probably my least favourite Homestuck character (who’s not an alpha troll). About Dirk... Jake (Jane says) seems to still have a bit of a thing for him, and Jane, meanwhile, still “has no idea why she can’t get [Jake] out of her system, even after all these years.”

The reason Jane cancelled her run was, it turns out, because Dirk said ‘cancel everything’. She gets drunk, very quickly... and hits on Jake, who is completely oblivious to her advances. She speaks of wanting to abandon business to raise a family, which Jake himself notes is something rather new for her (though the whole traditional gender thing she does isn’t lol)

Jake/Jane isn’t a ship I have any sort of opinion about, honestly. Dirk/Jake’s terrible collapsing relationship was kind of interesting but yeah, here’s a thing. What even are heterosexuals though? “I want to clean your giant house and have a lot of children”... incomprehensible!

One thing I will give credit for is the narration: it creates pretty strong images of like, these characters as fully embodied people, being intimate in like, subtle physical ways. that probably doesn’t make a lot of sense... whatever lol. it works

chapter 7

...brings us back to Gamzee. fittingly, i’m listening to the friendsim soundtrack as i read this, and i just hit ‘take me to clown church’.

anyway since this whole story basically seems to be an exercise in developing ships along the lines of ‘A is into B, B is obvious to their advances’... Roxy’s hot for John now I guess? or at least, so Callie thinks. she insists they’re all going to be ‘very, very happy’ despite her disappointment.

anyway, then we get Gamzee saying a bunch of casually misogynist stuff to John about Roxy. in this context, basically two interpretations are shown: a shallow ‘oh he’s redeemed now’ attitude from Roxy and Callie, and a ‘oh god i hate this person keep him away from me’ attitude from John. Gamzee’s repulsive qualities are underlined by the narration (from John’s perspective): he’s unhygienic, he’s casually misogynist (which seems like a new element, and rather out of keeping with the gendered-but-somehow-theoretically-not-patriarchal Alternia)...

chapter 8

Rose and Kanaya chapter. Jane’s possible presidency is once again the subject of discussion. Jane apparently wanted to apply some kind of anti-troll eugenics policy, and tried to bring Kanaya on board - and got told to fuck off for it. Our two good lesbians agree that, if Karkat were president (and Dave running the economy), things might have worked out ok...

We are briefly introduced to a new character, a jadeblood troll called Swifer Eggmop. Her character archetype, we are directly told, is ‘1920s newsboy’.

We bear witness to an egg hatching (in prose, anyway). This particular baby grub out closely resembling Vriska... which Kanaya says is because she comes from a slurry based on the original 12 trolls. Rose notes this would make Vriska the troll’s Ancestor, which raises an interesting question of whether Ancestors still exist as a social concept on Earth C. Anyway, Kanaya wants to adopt baby Vriska, which can only be a fantastic idea...

KANAYA: There Are Two Things Of Which I Have No Doubt

KANAYA: That You And I Are Going To Be Happy For The Rest Of Our Lives

KANAYA: And That We Are Never Ever Going To See Vriska Again

I think we can safely assume that neither of those things are true. The emphasis on ‘happiness forever’, voiced by multiple characters, is interesting... also the turn towards reproduction.

I went to uni with people who have kids now. Heck I have friends who have a child (who they are trying to spare from gender)... but for most of my social circle, which is to say almost entirely 20-to-30-something trans women, even the idea of adopting is incomprehensible? It’s somehow weird to think of ‘wanting kids’ as the narrative of 20-something year olds...

Kanaya is right. Vriska is dead, and despite everything, she died a hero. Vriska was a complicated figure of contrasting extremes; her heroic actions were matched in scale only by her monstrous ones, and since no one had actually witnessed her end, it was impossible to say which side the pendulum swung and judged her death—Heroic or Just.

It would be a fitting memorial for her and Kanaya to raise a version of Vriska who would be given every chance to make good on her noble characteristics. A true, symbolic redemption arc. Something about the thought appeals to Rose’s taste for the dramatic flourish. It would be proof that this was all worth it in the end: the destruction of multiple universes, the death of Kanaya’s friends, the circuitous rites of suffering experienced by the nearly infinite splintered versions of every being to inhabit Paradox Space...

Once again, the notion of a ‘redemption arc’ enters the narrative explicitly, directly echoing fandom discussion. Unlike Gamzee, this is studiously neutral on the Vriska Question: steering exactly between ‘Vriska did nothing wrong’, nor ‘Vriska is a monster’. Regardless... I think it’s probably safe to say that everyone’s prophecies are wrong and we haven’t seen the last of the ‘true’ Vriska.

chapter 9

More of Jade trying very hard to ship her friends, to the discomfort of everyone involved. Jade kisses Karkat, and Karkat explicitly names what she’s doing as sexual assault, a violation of boundaries and consent - Jade attempts to convince him that no, it was really Dave who kissed him!

This prompts a long monologue from Dave in which it’s obvious that he has put some thought into kissing Karkat. Point seems to be: they sure are into each other but Jade’s intervention is not at all welcome. At least I hope that’s the point. I would prefer not to see Jade vindicated by the narrative.

Anyway, other things of cultural note: grub spaghetti is apparently still eaten on Earth C. I always thought it was implied that ‘grubs’ in Troll food were like, actual troll babies, but maybe they’re just ordinary (for certain values thereof...) bugs bc I don’t think Kanaya would stand for that.

chapter 10

The ‘Jane running for president’ subplot has largely disappeared, because what we’re really here for is... shipping! This time, a John/Roxy chapter. I think they call it Roxygen or something? Terezi explains the ‘pair the spares’ logic of the ship (dequirkified):

TEREZI: Um, yeah John.

TEREZI: We are not idiots. We can all do the math on this.

TEREZI: It’s not like you were going to fuck your human mom or human sister.

TEREZI: And you are “not a homosexual,” which takes Strider dick out of the equation.

TEREZI: And Kanaya is the only girl troll left, and she lesbian married one of the two remaining eligible human females.

TEREZI: Oh and Jake is a double threat. A human dad with a human dick!

TEREZI: So by a process of elimination, of *course* you were going to “fall in love” with Roxy.

Equation of ‘dick’ with ‘male’ there terezi but whatever... (god is this fic going to get into the question of what a ‘nook’ and a ‘bulge’ is...)

(lol i’m calling it a fic...)

Anyway, my position on this one is: Roxy/Calliope was a fine ship worth upholding, and I do not see any reason why anyone would be into John. Though I may be biased on that front.

Terezi also brings up the Calliope question. John is trepidatious on that front.

There’s an interesting line from Roxy here, when John tries to assure her she doesn’t have to wear makeup:

ROXY: john...

ROXY: do u ever think about like

ROXY: gender???

JOHN: ???

JOHN: uh. not really, i guess?

JOHN: but i don’t think girls should feel like they HAVE to wear makeup just because they’re girls.

ROXY: lol

ROXY: thats not what im getting at

JOHN: what do you mean then?

JOHN: are you, like...

ROXY: like what

This is where I’m conscious of the ‘trans character’ tag on this one.

They talk about adulthood, as a performance that they do not feel ‘ready’ for. At that point Dave shows up, clearly aflustered after Jade’s intervention:

DAVE: anyone can be a dude if they really want thats part of the beauty of living in this brand new world with none of the baggage our old world had like gender and sexuality and relationships only involving a very specific number of people

chapter 11

So yeah now to pick up the torch on Dave starting to understand he’s gay. here for this

DAVE: theres a metric fucking ton of shit about to come down on me because i dragged my heels on doing some serious self reflection

JOHN: is this just some more stuff about...

JOHN: being gay?

DAVE: maybe yeah

DAVE: ok definitely yeah

DAVE: its 110% about being gay

JOHN: i thought you’d already worked all that stuff out?

DAVE: turns out it takes a long time to figure out your sexuality after a childhood filled with repression and abuse

nice to see it named as such i guess

the dialogue in the last couple of chapters has been really good. i’m getting properly drawn into this, the characters feel extremely well-realised. threads which were long latent are finally being made explicit.

Dave is struggling with very abrupt self-realisation: he definitely has feelings for Karkat, he has complicated feelings for Jade, but the ‘simple’ solution of just entering a non-mono relationship both is not feeling ‘right’ to him. John isn’t really able to help... he’s gonna talk to Dirk.

This chapter does a lot, I really like it, but at the same time I’ve not got a tremendous amount to add to it.

chapter 12

in our latest chapter of ‘homestuck but they fuck now’, Jake and Jane did that - while up on various substances, including at least alcohol and the trickster lollipop. Jake is having second thoughts but when he tries to back out, Jane looks sad, so he decides to go for it. This can only end well.

Also damn I guess someone on the team thought ‘what would it be like to fuck while high on the trickster lollipop’ so uh, that’s a thing now.

chapter 13

Back to the Strider boys. There’s a heavy intro...

Dave and Dirk don’t talk that much about the heavy stuff. They don’t need to. Dave can hear his brother’s voice in his head.

Not, like, literally. That would be insane. But Dave knows what his bro is like. Dirk, or a version of him, instilled in Dave a way of living and thinking that would, for better or worse, persist far beyond the first thirteen years of his upbringing.

Yeah huh.

Can’t believe Rose and Kanaya have the dubious honour of being the most ‘together’ characters in this.

Anyway in this case Dave still feels like he needs to talk to Dirk - who we know has gone awol, for some mysterious reason. He meets... Gamzee, who says some religious clown stuff, and offers Dave a redemption arc (really running this joke into the ground huh), but Dave brushes him off. Then he finds a fembot that Dirk was working on, with a note.

We don’t get to read the note yet. I would guess that’s the end of epilogue 2.

Sure enough it is.

Epilogue 2, taken as a whole

I quite enjoyed this, Gamzee sections notwithstanding. The prose is tight, the dialogue is hitting its flow, and a lot of relationships that were left vague in Homestuck proper are finally being given time to develop.

Obviously it’s kind of risky bringing in explicitly sexual themes, but I think they approach them in the ‘right’ way: focusing on the emotional meaning of relationships that now might - now we’re dealing with 23-year-olds - include sex, rather than just porn lol. It does slightly strain credibility that, in all their time on Earth C, none of them have made any meaningful friendships or relationships outside the core group of 8 kids and a handful of surviving trolls, but I can also understand the desire to focus on the already-developed characters. That’s a common problem for ‘endgame’ ships: in truth dating exclusively within a tiny friendship group is probably a recipe for disaster, but in fiction it makes a work manageable.

I am enjoying just how gay Homestuck has gotten. If Homestuck is the comic for Very Online kids who were around 13 in 2009 when the comic began, it’s somewhat fitting, because our cohort has, at least to a degree, done the same thing lol. Of course, that’s shaped by my personal experience of like, transitioning and moving to a friendship group that’s like 99% trans lesbians and bi women, but I suspect statistics would bear out the idea that more and more people are comfortable identifying ourselves as not-straight in some way. I could be wrong about that though lol.

Of course, it’s too much to hope that this trend - insofar as it exists! - is like, the beginning of the end for Gender as a system of social relations, violent exploitation and coercion - especially since periods of ‘more acceptance’ often seem to precede violent repression (c.f. Weimar Germany and then, the nazis; the period just before the AIDS crisis; much earlier, the construction of colonial/modern gender in the first place on the bones of less rigid gender systems...)

Anyway, let’s see what’s happened to old Dirk. I’m still wondering who the “trans character” is going to be, and how they’re going to handle that. It’s going to be tough to match fic like @rememberwhenyoutried‘s An Earth-Shattering Confession, but we shall see.

#momestuck

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not-close-to-straight · 7 years

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“Buried” (Chapter Three)

Well... Tony and Steve see each other again. It goes about as well as you think lol Excited to hear what you guys think!

If you need to be added to the TAG LIST drop a request in my ask box!

ADDITIONAL CHAPTERS HERE

Enjoy :)

**************

South America

“Mister Stark!” A woman came jogging towards him through the soft layer of mud, one hand stretched out invitingly, the other trying to keep her hat on her head as the helicopter wound down. “I am so happy you made it! We were starting to think no one would ever come!”

Tony waited until he was clear of the helicopter before answering. “Sorry about the last minute reply. We spoke on the phone right? You must be--”

“Melissa.” She supplied helpfully, shaking his hand and leading him onto drier ground. “Forgive the mud, it's the end of the season you know, so we had an early burst of rain and it about washed us out.”

Tony glanced down at his sturdy boots and jeans. “A little mud isn't going to hurt anything. It's not like I'm wearing two hundred dollar shoes.” Tony smiled faintly at the pretty blonde, thinking about another blond ten years ago who had just outright laughed about the amount of mud Tony was trudging through.

He definitely preferred the pretty girl who apologized for the mud.

“Rain is coming already this year?”

“Yes, we are actually packing up a week early because the weather is changing too quickly. Can I take your bag?”

“No.” Tony laughed a little and hefted his backpack. “It's fine. Heavier than it looks, don't want you struggling with it

“Why did you bring a bag? Are you staying overnight here? I assumed you would be staying in the city?”

“I'd like to stay here.” Tony admitted. “I'd like to see the camp and site and take some time to make an informed decision. My dad funded this for so many years that I'm not going to just shut it down because I took over.”

“I was so sorry to hear about Howard.” Melissa put her hand over her heart sympathetically. “He was so wonderful about funding this project and when it got bigger he even paid for the security team we needed to--”

“Security team?” Tony interrupted as they ducked under the low door of a thrown together cabin. “Why a security team? I wasn't aware that there were more than just college kids and some staff at the site. There wasn't anything in the file about a security team.”

“Oh, you haven't heard.” Melissa sat behind a worn desk, rooting around for some paperwork. “We've been attracting trouble from local thieves, bandits, that sort of thing, ever since word got out that we are recovering gold and gem items from the temple.”

“Right. The temple.” Tony took the paper she handed him, an itemized list and ball park value of the relics they had recovered just this season. “Wow.” He raised his eyebrows. “You weren't kidding about needing a security team. When I was here all we were finding were broken pots.”

“Oh!” Melissa sounded delighted. “You spent some time on the dig? When?”

“Bout ten years ago.” Tony handed her back the paper and changed the subject. “So. Is it really that unsafe? Is that really why you guys are packing up? The whole reason I'm here is to see if this is the sort of project we should continue funding and if it's a dangerous place then I don't really want the Stark name attached to a dig where people are being hurt---”

“That's exactly why we need the funding.” She cut in. “Yes, I'm aware that it could be bad press if something were to happen. But just wait until you see what we are finding. Literal history is being uncovered every day. Imagine the press when Stark Tech is funding one of the best finds of this decade. The preliminary results on these artifacts speak of a culture that we haven't even named yet. Imagine what we could learn. The cost of a security team is certainly worth that.”

Her enthusiasm was contagious, and Tony found himself nodding in agreement. Ten years ago he would have been chomping at the bit to get to a temple dig. He would have been calling his dad and demanding more money to fund the site, readily hiring even more security to make sure that everything they were finding was carefully guarded like the irreplaceable slice of history it was.

Ten years ago Tony would have been working at the site from sun up until sundown, or at least until someone came to drag him away to eat, because even back then he had been a workaholic for anything he was passionate about.

Ten years ago, Tony would have probably screamed at the thought of shutting down the camp, at the thought of closing down something that had given him so much joy and so much lo---

Tony came back to himself with a jolt when he realized Melissa was still talking, and was grateful for the distraction because his mind had been wandering… wandering a little too far.

“Most of the workers are gone already.” She was saying. “Only myself and a few others as well as the security detail are left. We are running a truck of artifacts to the airport now, then when they return tomorrow, I'll be packed up and ready to leave. Just the commander of the security team and a few of his men will be left to secure what can be secured and do a final sweep before the weather changes.”

“I see.” Tony spent a few more minutes looking over the detailed report, noting the bigger items that had been found, as well as the list of smaller jewelry pieces and decorative knives that numbered into the hundreds. “It's amazing that we spent years working in the village, just to find an entire temple-- how far is it? Half a kilometer away?”

“Just under half.” Melissa nodded. “But as you might know from your time here, that even a hundred meters in the jungle might as well be kilometers for all the time it's takes to properly excavate.”

“Right.” Tony nodded, remembering with a hint of fondness and perhaps a bit of bitterness the long days working on the same two foot by two foot grid area before it was considered “clean” and he could move on.

Tedious work. Would have been infinitely more fun if he had been finding jeweled daggers and-- Tony checked the page one more time--solid gold chains.

“It's extraordinary.” He set the paper down and gestured back outside. “I'd like to see it, if you don't mind.”

“Oh! Would you like a tour?” Melissa clapped her hands. “Excellent. I have just enough time to show you the temple before I have to get back to packing. We just need to stop by the dorms and ask one of the guards to go with us.”

“They don't allow you to and from the site without protection.” Tony raised his eyebrows. “That seems excessive. It's only half a kilometer away. It's honestly that dangerous?”

“Yes.” Melissa nodded her head emphatically. “Earlier this year we lost a student when he took off to bring an artifact back to camp and managed to get spotted by a bandit and he--” she cleared her throat. “Anyway. The commander upped the security from just perimeter to everything after that.”

“I'd like to meet to commander.” Tony decided. “If I'm the one bankrolling all this, I'd like to see who's paychecks I'm signing. What's his name?”

“Here.” Melissa pushed a photo at him. “This is Commander James Barnes. We call him Bucky. He and his team have been here all this season and most of last.”

“Alright then.” Tony tapped the picture, then reached for his backpack, settling it over his shoulders again. “Let’s go meet him. I need to see exactly how dangerous this situation is.”

*****************

“Commander Barnes!” Melissa called cheerfully as they approached a set of dorms and Tony wanted to laugh at how similar they were to the ones he had slept in. Just slapped together buildings holding six bunk beds. Classy dwellings indeed.

“Commander Barnes are you there? We need an escort to the temple site! Bucky?”

“Buck ain’t here.” A burly man who stood only an inch or two taller than Tony came out the door, moving into their space so quickly that Tony actually had to take a step or two back, his hand automatically on Melissa’s arm to pull her behind him. “What do you want, Melissa? You should be packing, not bothering us.”

“Rumlow.” Melissa’s tone dropped, her lips thinning in disapproval. “I didn't realize you were here. Where did Commander Barnes go? I was not aware that he had left.”

“He went along with the truck to the airport because there was so many big artifacts to transfer. Why does it matter? What's the rush?”

“Well, Mister Stark is here and wants a tour of the temple site as well as to meet the Commander of the team. He has some concerns about security and the safety of the camp.”

“Whys that? You think we aren’t doing a good enough job? You aren't feelin’ safe?” Now Rumlow looked at Tony, his eyes narrowing. “What did you say his name was?”

“Mr. Rumlow.” Melissa said firmly. “Is one of your superiors present? This actually doesn't concern you at all.”

“Caps still here.” He said sourly, jerking his thumb towards the building. “Talk to him.” Rumlow stayed in the doorway for a few seconds more, leering when Melissa tried to step around him.

“Ask nicely and maybe I'll move.” he said, and it sounded like maybe he was teasing, but there was just enough bite in his words to be intimidating and Tony finally rolled his eyes.

“You gonna move, big guy, or you still trying to prove a point? Cause I've got better things to do than stand here and watch you act tough.”

“Easy, pretty boy.” Rumlow sneered at him. “I'll move when I am damn well ready to--”

“Stop being an asshole and move!” A barked order from inside the dorm, and a big hand shoved Rumlow out of the way. “Damn it, Brock.”

Tony raised his eyebrow when Brock started to respond angrily, then just sort of hunched his shoulders and stomped away. Tony turned to watch him go, unwilling to take his eyes off the surly guard until he was well and truly gone. Rumlow seemed like he had a bigger issue than just being a jerk, and the way he had watched Tony had been a little less interested and a little more calculating.

Tony could handle leers and bad come ons all day. He was rich and good looking after all, and men and women both tried to hit on him. But being eyed like he was a problem, or an inconvenience that had to be sorted out was a little disconcerting.

Melissa wasn't watching Rumlow walk away, but she still breathed a loud sigh of relief, stepping forward to shake the Captains hand.

“Thank you Captain. Not sure what we did to irritate him this time, but he was certainly upset.”

“I'm sure it’s nothing. Guys just a dick. Sorry you had to deal with him. Who’s your friend?”

“Oh this is--” Melissa tugged on Tony's arm, trying to get him to rejoin the conversation. “You will recall I've been trying to get ahold of someone at Stark Tech for months now, and we finally got a response. This is Tony Stark, Howard’s son. You knew Howard, right?”

“Nice to meet you, Captain.” Tony finally turned, his hand outstretched automatically, a pleasant smile on his face to greet the Captain. “Seems like--like--” Tony's mouth went dry and he stammered to stop.

Melissa didn't even notice, and went right on with introductions. “And Tony, this is Captain Steve Rogers. He’s second in command for our security team under Commander Barnes.”

“Captain Steve Rogers.” Tony repeated, feeling as if every muscle in his body had gone numb. “Oh. That's um--- That's interesting. Wow, that's interesting.”

Apparently the Captain wasn't any good at hiding his shock either, and Tony was felt a little better about his own reaction when Steve jerked out of his daze and yanked his hand away like it had been scalded, staring down at Tony in disbelief.

“Goddamnit.” he blurted, and between them Melissa piped up nervously--

“Oh my. What an odd first meeting. Um Captain Rogers, you are aware that the Stark family has been funding----:

“Goddamnit.” Steve repeated, rubbing his hand over the scruff on his cheek. “Tony.”

“Yeah, you said that.” Tony somehow managed a smirk, managed to cover the shaking in his hands by shoving them into his jeans pocket, affecting a casual pose. “Got anything else for me?”

“God.” Steve laughed a little before trapping Tony with that overly blue gaze. “Tony. I always wondered if I'd ever see you again.”

“Well, here I am.” Tony shrugged, unable to look away and hating himself for it.

Steve was… big. Well, bigger anyway. And so many muscles barely fitting into a dark blue t shirt. And damn he was big. And the beard? Why was Tony such a fan of the beard? Who knew he was a sucker for a hunky guy with a beard? Just big guys with...beards.

“Here I am.” He said again, sounding too much like a broken record, but Steve looked too shell shocked to notice.

But then--

“Yeah.” Steve broke their overly long eye contact, taking the chance to look Tony up and down, not even bothering to hide the interest in his eyes. “Yeah. Here you are. You look good, Tony.”

Tony's entire brain squealed to a stop, still struggling with the whole Steve thing, much less a bearded Steve who was…. hitting on him? And thought he looked good?

Tony kicked himself for letting it even affect him.

This was Steve after all. And Tony sort of hated him.

“You look bearded, Steve.” Tony finally replied, mentally high five-ing himself for getting the sentence out without stammering or stuttering or anything else embarrassing, because wow who knew Steve looking at him like that would affect him so much after all these years?

“You like it?” Steve asked, raising an eyebrow that was looking decidedly more brunette than blonde now that he was older, but was still shockingly cocky.

“You look like a douche.” Tony said calmly, before turning to a completely confused Melissa. “Is there anyone besides Rumlow and the Captain that can take us to the dig site? I would like to go now but am willing to wait for someone if we need to.”

“Oh well I-- I don't know.” She fluttered anxiously. “I thought that Captain would be the best option, but you and he seem to--”

“Still a spoiled brat, huh? Ordering people around to get what you want?” Steve interrupted, and it was astonishing how quickly Tony's confusion over seeing Steve turned right into anger.

He whipped around, ready to unleash some sort of scathing retort on the soldier archeologist dickwad, but then his eyes widened because Steve was staring at his ass while talking to him.

“Hey! My eyes are up here.” he snapped and Steve didn't even attempt to look up, if anything, he just folded his arms over that ridiculous chest and tilted his head to see better.

“No way. This is a much better view. And you didn't answer my question yet. You still a spoiled brat or has ten years changed--”

Tony didn't even stop to think about what he was doing, just balled up his fist and swung hard, connecting with Steve's fucking bearded jaw with an overly satisfying crack, watching as the man dropped onto the steps.

Melissa screamed in panic and Tony grimaced, rubbing his already sore knuckles. Giant bastard. “Well now. How’s the view from down there, Captain?”

Steve rubbed his jaw and tried not to smile as Tony stormed away.

Spoiled brat. Steve had never stopped missing him.

*************************

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becauseithrewgasandamatchonher · 7 years

Text

So can’t message you for some reason, doesn’t work when I send a message so why don’t we put everything under a read me so it doesn’t get so damn long.

One:

You know what if you won’t take my word for it listen to James Grossman the Executive Director of the American Historical Association:

James Grossman, the executive director of the American Historical Association, says that the increase in statues and monuments was clearly meant to send a message.

"These statues were meant to create legitimate garb for white supremacy," Grossman said. "Why would you put a statue of Robert E. Lee or Stonewall Jackson in 1948 in Baltimore?"

(http://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544266880/confederate-statues-were-built-to-further-a-white-supremacist-future)

Or Doctor Mark Elliot:

“All of those monuments were there to teach values to people,” Elliott says. “That’s why they put them in the city squares. That’s why they put them in front of state buildings.” Many earlier memories had instead been placed in cemeteries.

The values these monuments stood for, he says, included a “glorification of the cause of the Civil War.”

(http://www.history.com/news/how-the-u-s-got-so-many-confederate-monuments)

I know you like to use your opinion instead of sources but I’m excited to see how you explain this away or discredit these people. Especially the guy in charge of the American Historical Association.

Two:

Oh yeah because few people on the left are burning stuff that suddenly means everyone who is left leaning is for that. Are you out of your fucking mind? This is fucking ridiculous you think they speak for the entirety of the Left?? Like show me facts. Show me statistics that it’s a wide spread thing on our side then maybe I’ll take these people seriously until then chill the fuck out.

Also let’s talk about this article in regards to colleges. First and foremost again with the misuse of freedom of speech unless you’re going to fight all the times students have gotten expelled from Universities for saying slurs and shit you really need to chill out with your problem you have with a University exercising their right to not allow someone on to the campus and people exercising their right to protest until they are heard.

There is a code of conduct at Universities and it’s beyond ridiculous if a school is okay with inviting someone that has said/done things that go against that code of conduct when if I a student did any of that I would be fucking expelled. Them bringing that person in shows what the schools values are before you say “well they aren’t students.” If I owned a school and decided I was going to let Sean Spencer [a neo nazi who has called for ethnic genocide] come speak to my students that would say something about myself and my schools values.

Ann Coulter has said some fucked up shit to include the homophobic word f*ggot. She’s said "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity." She’s said "I think the government should be spying on all Arabs, engaging in torture as a televised spectator sport, dropping daisy cutters wantonly throughout the Middle East and sending liberals to Guantanamo." She’s said “ Jews would be “perfected” once they became Christians.”

Do I need to keep going about the fucked up shit she has said? No one owes this woman a fucking platform she’s garbage. I read something once about how speech can be violent because of the effect it has on the body and the brain but there’s something that stands out to me:

The scientific findings I described above provide empirical guidance for which kinds of controversial speech should and shouldn’t be acceptable on campus and in civil society. In short, the answer depends on whether the speech is abusive or merely offensive.

Offensiveness is not bad for your body and brain. Your nervous system evolved to withstand periodic bouts of stress, such as fleeing from a tiger, taking a punch or encountering an odious idea in a university lecture.

Entertaining someone else’s distasteful perspective can be educational. Early in my career, I taught a course that covered the eugenics movement, which advocated the selective breeding of humans. Eugenics, in its time, became a scientific justification for racism. To help my students understand this ugly part of scientific history, I assigned them to debate its pros and cons. The students refused. No one was willing to argue, even as part of a classroom exercise, that certain races were genetically superior to others.

So I enlisted an African-American faculty member in my department to argue in favor of eugenics while I argued against; halfway through the debate, we switched sides. We were modeling for the students a fundamental principle of a university education, as well as civil society: When you’re forced to engage a position you strongly disagree with, you learn something about the other perspective as well as your own. The process feels unpleasant, but it’s a good kind of stress — temporary and not harmful to your body — and you reap the longer-term benefits of learning.

What’s bad for your nervous system, in contrast, are long stretches of simmering stress. If you spend a lot of time in a harsh environment worrying about your safety, that’s the kind of stress that brings on illness and remodels your brain. That’s also true of a political climate in which groups of people endlessly hurl hateful words at one another, and of rampant bullying in school or on social media. A culture of constant, casual brutality is toxic to the body, and we suffer for it.

That’s why it’s reasonable, scientifically speaking, not to allow a provocateur and hatemonger like Milo Yiannopoulos to speak at your school. He is part of something noxious, a campaign of abuse. There is nothing to be gained from debating him, for debate is not what he is offering.

On the other hand, when the political scientist Charles Murray argues that genetic factors help account for racial disparities in I.Q. scores, you might find his view to be repugnant and misguided, but it’s only offensive. It is offered as a scholarly hypothesis to be debated, not thrown like a grenade. There is a difference between permitting a culture of casual brutality and entertaining an opinion you strongly oppose. The former is a danger to a civil society (and to our health); the latter is the lifeblood of democracy.

By all means, we should have open conversations and vigorous debate about controversial or offensive topics. But we must also halt speech that bullies and torments. From the perspective of our brain cells, the latter is literally a form of violence.

(https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/14/opinion/sunday/when-is-speech-violence.html?mcubz=1)

Now can you say that being anti-Semitic [Jewish people will be perfected by becoming Christian] calling for the invasion, murder and forced conversion to Christianity [man that has a long history of fucking up countries] saying that we should televise and condone torture AND drop fucking bombs [daisy cutters] throughout the Middle East isn’t fucking abusive and oppressive? I mean you could but it’s garbage.

Three:

I love that you left out what that statement was in reference to. You said no one who is affected by it cares which was a blatant lie and you’ve obviously ignored the copious amounts of NA that have called for this stuff to be removed.

Your facts were called bullshit because they didn’t support your original statement.

You do realize it doesn’t fucking matter if 4.7 million don’t care right? Those 520k+ NA still exist and they give a damn so your statement the people affected don’t care is a fucking lie and using that article to push your narrative that is fucking wrong makes it bullshit. It’s not because I don’t like evidence. It’s because the evidence you have provided is garbage and doesn’t support the statement YOU FUCKING MADE. You don’t get to fucking decide an issue doesn’t matter because the majority of said group doesn’t care about it.

Four:

Nothing you said changes that the article detailed how to help the NA community. So either your article is good and the information is sound or it’s bad. You can’t pick and choose. You can’t use part of the articles information to back up your statement then trash the rest of it. Do you know how that makes a source look?

Doesn’t matter why you omitted it. The point remains it proved my point that the government was fucking the NA community over. Your source that you provided agrees that what the government is doing with the land [along with the cigerrets and the casinos] are hurting the community.

Hmmmm that’s fair the US has provided that but uhm just a quick thing:

Since it was first established within the old U.S. War Department in 1824, the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) has distinguished itself as the most corrupt, ineffective and abusive agency in the federal government. Although the BIA now professes the greatest respect for "tribal sovereignty" and "tribal self-determination," there is precious little evidence of genuine concern for tribal autonomy in its administration of federal Indian policy as its recent illegal intervention into the internal affairs of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma substantiates. The overwhelming weight of evidence tells a very different story about BIA policy making. By any standard, the BIA is a colossal failure as a government agency and the dead weight of its administrative wreckage represents the single greatest obstacle to the freedom, prosperity, cultural integrity and progress of Native Americans. Until the BIA is abolished and federal Indian policy is fundamentally reformed, the future holds little promise of a significant change in the lives of Native Americans.

(http://www.cherokeeobserver.org/Issues/abolishbiapart2.html)

Five:

I don’t use reddit. Ever. So like again I say just say the shit you wanna say so I don’t waste my fucking time responding to it??

Six:

So the fact that they haven’t paid there bills somehow means they deserve to be living with dirty fucking pipes? They deserve the city officials to not fix the fucking pipes that a lot of them have been prosecuted over for their role in it?

The first thing that you said in this post was this: We’ve given you everything you want, but you just want more you greedy layabouts. So you didn’t originally say anything about people only complaining on twitter. Try reading through your own statements.

Seven:

You know how you said that I was misquoting you [which I wasn’t lol] it’s nice to see you doing the same thing. Here’s what I said:

ALSO I don’t know if you know this but not everyone is able to go out and do the stuff I do whether it’s age, whether it’s economical, whether it’s because they have a disability of some sort so calling them a lay about is so many levels of wrong not to mention talking this stuff on the internet can and often does get people involved who can do stuff to do so. You discounting the power of words and the internet is illogical and just to ridiculous for words.

At no point did I say that no one out of the people I listed could go out in protests but the fact remains that for every child, poor person, disabled person that can go there’s someone that can’t so again you calling these people layabouts is fucking garbage, but I love that you think the links you provided mean EVERYONE in those particular communities can do something.

Eight:

Yes. It’s quite possible since you’re more likely to live in poverty if you were in poverty as a child (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/rich-kids-stay-rich-poor-kids-stay-poor/) (http://www.nccp.org/publications/pub_911.html) (https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2016/02/19/a-college-degree-is-worth-less-if-you-are-raised-poor/) (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/06/the-long-shadow-poverty-baltimore-poor-children/) and having literally all your money, land and shit stripped away from is a sure fire way to put people in poverty if I ever saw one.

I honestly can’t expect much from someone that thinks institutional oppression doesn’t exist. I mean I can’t blame you for not understanding this “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” thing is garbage and has always been garbage

Nine:

Read the following: (http://www.aaihs.org/slavery-the-13th-amendment-and-mass-incarceration-a-response-to-patrick-rael/) (http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/gilmoreprisonslavery.html) (https://www.afsc.org/story/slavery-mass-incarceration) (https://www.democracynow.org/2016/10/3/from_slavery_to_mass_incarceration_ava) (https://eji.org/enslavement-to-mass-incarceration-museum) (http://racism.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1470:institutionalized-slavery&catid=137&Itemid=155&showall=1&limitstart=)

Also let’s talk about your articles

The one talking about Black leaders: I’m all for admitting there were other circumstances as well but the idea that the war on drugs wasn’t to attack Black communities (http://jezebel.com/nixons-policy-advisor-admits-he-invented-war-on-drugs-t-1766359595) or that drugs weren’t funneled into the community (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/10/gary-webb-dark-alliance_n_5961748.html) is factually incorrect.

Also there being other contributing factors to Mass Incarceration doesn’t suddenly mean it didn’t start with slavery. That’s not how that works.

The first article:

Is the fact that Black politicians are on board with this and that there’s some racist black guy trying to put Black people in more economic poverty supposed to prove anything?

Ten:

Have you ever experienced poverty? Have you ever experienced being so poor you can’t feed your own children [due to racism in the job market and a slew of other things] that you turn to crime to feed said children? If the choice is between starvation for yourself and your children and committing a crime that’s not a real choice.

One I didn’t bring the law in to this [despite the fact there are numerous racist legal practices] but I’m glad you can recognize that stuff from 100 years ago can affect today albeit even if you’re saying so in just a legal capacity. But please tell me how your comment is right but mine is wrong when I say stuff from 100+ years ago can affect people today?

Eleven:

We are having a debate/argument/discussion whatever you want to call it and while you are right it’s not a research paper when you do this stuff you need to have your fact straight.

For example I haven’t gotten stuff wrong here that’s fine but nothing I’ve gotten wrong has presented me as a possible racist liar [your own actions even if they were by accident are the same actions that racist people have done. People I’ve had this conversation with before so if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it’s a duck until I know otherwise. AGAIN that was your fault. My initial evaluation of you was your own fault.]

Twelve:

Don’t really care. If I’ve got the facts to back me up I’ll cuss all I want especially when it’s about topics that directly affect me and others like me. If you allow my insults to detract from the facts that’s something YOU need to work on not me because even if you had cussed me out I still would have read your sources and I would have replied to them in kind.

If my argument is supported by facts and you think me being mean to you delegitimizes my argument that is supported by facts that means you don’t care about the facts because someone was mean to you. People need to stop using people being mean to them as a way to negate facts.

Thirteen:

So I realized I didn’t actually link my source apparently lol?? I thought I did so that’s on me but it was a list of articles from google talking about the issue but I already know we are gonna run into this problem again later down so I’ll save what I am going to say for then.

Fourteen:

So all you’ve got is your opinions didn’t I say don’t bother responding if you couldn’t give me something other than your opinion?

However there is something I will address. Yes we commit more violent crimes I won’t ever deny that because I know it’s a fact. I frequently use those FBI tables in conversations. What I will say though is violent crimes doesn’t encompass everything so let’s talk about that other stuff:

Even more surprising is what gets left out of the chart: Blacks are far more likely to be arrested for selling or possessing drugs than whites, even though whites use drugs at the same rate. And whites are actually more likely to sell drugs:

Whites were about 45 percent more likely than blacks to sell drugs in 1980, according to an analysis of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth by economist Robert Fairlie. This was consistent with a 1989 survey of youth in Boston. My own analysis of data from the 2012 National Survey on Drug Use and Health shows that 6.6 percent of white adolescents and young adults (aged 12 to 25) sold drugs, compared to just 5.0 percent of blacks (a 32 percent difference).

This partly reflects racial differences in the drug markets in black and white communities. In poor black neighborhoods, drugs tend to be sold outdoors, in the open.

(https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/30/white-people-are-more-likely-to-deal-drugs-but-black-people-are-more-likely-to-get-arrested-for-it/?utm_term=.1797b7e3e9ef)

To compound on this cops just don’t seem to care about white people doing this stuff. (https://www.aclu.org/issues/mass-incarceration/smart-justice/war-marijuana-black-and-white) (https://privacysos.org/blog/there-goes-your-overtime-cop-explains-why-police-dont-target-powerful-whites-in-drug-enforcement/) The CIA definitely didn’t care when they were targeting Black people and Hippies.

Not to mention white people are now calling for a gentler war on drugs now because of a fucking heroin crisis (https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/31/us/heroin-war-on-drugs-parents.html?mcubz=1) but I mean fuck the Black community right? Let’s support laws that put them in jail (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/08/racial_bias_in_criminal_justice_whites_don_t_want_to_reform_laws_that_harm.html)

Black people are more likely to have their cars searched despite the fact that they find more illegal stuff on white people (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/27/police-are-searching-black-drivers-more-often-but-finding-more-illegal-stuff-with-white-drivers-2/?utm_term=.e402ec8667c4)

Black people are more likely to be stopped and frisked despite the fact that white people carry more contraband (https://thinkprogress.org/white-people-stopped-by-new-york-police-are-more-likely-to-have-guns-or-drugs-than-minorities-9bf579a2b9b3/)

And there’s this too: (https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/07/data-police-racial-bias)

So that information about violent crime doesn’t suddenly fix everything.

ALSO Black people are more likely to be in poverty so there’s a racial aspect to all of this isn’t if it isn’t the single contributing factor. One of the reasons is probably this: (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2915472/) or this: (http://www.epi.org/publication/african-americans-are-paid-less-than-whites-at-every-education-level/)

Fifteen:

Columbus was also trash and his statues need to be removed and Columbus day should be replaced with Indigenous People’s Day [it’s already happening but all of America needs to get with the times] again books, museums and mandatory curriculums exist that’s not gonna change.

Have you heard anyone call for the removal of museums that are about educating people? I know for a fact that the African American History and Heritage Museum has a section about Civil War and there’s no way people would remove that. Now a museum glorifying the actions of the Confederate sure remove it. History like that should be remembered not glorified.

Educating isn’t glorifying and if you can’t tell the difference between those two words I can’t help you. NOT TO FUCKING MENTION it’s the people that are supporting this shit that are ALL FOR revising ACTUAL HISTORY BOOKS that teach kids about this stuff. We aren’t the ones doing what you’re accusing us of. The right is.

Sixteen:

Soooo you’re against pedophilic material being censored since no one should be forcibly censored? I mean that’s cool…I guess….I can’t even.

Now obviously, I don’t actually believe you believe that but your stance is no censorship is good but if you budge that means in certain circumstances it is. So who are you to decide what those circumstances are? Mine reasons are based off the racist history of the statues and their continued presence in a society that claims to be post racial/racism

Seventeen:

So I’ve already proven that you’re wrong about why those statues were put up from two very reliable sources but I am eager to see how you plan to discredit them or if you’re even gonna bother providing sources and are going to use your opinion again which will not hold up to that.

Anyway those statues were put up to glorify the reasons the south seceded [racism along many other things] and to terrorize Black people. It wasn’t solely about memorializing their fallen [I’ll agree that was part of the reason] but like that part shouldn’t matter since the racism is quite clear now. At least to anyone that cares about sources.

Eighteen:

Things happened in the past that effect the present [which you agreed with] and therefore reconciliation should be made.

Also you didn’t have a single source to back up your opinions so you saying it’s not real doesn’t mean shit to me because your opinion doesn’t mean shit without fucking sources. Your word isn’t fucking fact.

OH MY GOD yes because a Black man managed to do that with some KKK members that means they can all have that happen? Didn’t you get “mad” at me earlier for something along these lines? You are a joke if you think the people he convered represent the entitirety of the population of the KKK which is said to be 3000 people (http://www.epi.org/publication/african-americans-are-paid-less-than-whites-at-every-education-level/) We don’t even have a number of how many people he converted but you wanna use that as proof that all these racist fucks aren’t gonna stay that way?

Fine I will change my stance THE MAJORITY OF THESE FUCKS will continue to be the way they are unless there are serious consequences for the fucking behavior whether it’s getting expelled from college, losing their job or someone beating the ever living shit out of them. This is not me saying I condone violence but my point stands.

Nineteen:

Do you realize the KKK have been marching around the US before this? Do you realize the Nazism and all that was on the rise before this happened? Also when it comes to PoC people claim the victim narrative is bullshit but let it be the KKK and Neo-Nazis all of a sudden it’s got legitimacy that’s racist bullshit.

Their beliefs don’t change facts. Their history is racist. The KKK is racist. Neo-Nazism is racist. The Confederacy seceded for multiple reasons but one of them was RACISM. The fact that people are claiming to agree with them is just more proof that our country is racist but of course no one will go for that because these people are the actual ones trying to erase fucking history.

Things aren’t always black and white. Things don’t always happen because of racism but you acting like systematic oppression doesn’t exist is factually incorrect, moronic and doesn’t help shit in tearing down these systems in order to help people.

REMINDER: PUT YOUR RESPONSE UNDER A READ MORE

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