#conquest of dorne

[racefortheironthrone]

Was there any way through which Daeron I first could have successfully conquered and held onto Dorne for a significant amount of time? Or were the Dornish too resiliant to conquest (culturally, geographically, etc) to ever be submited to the Iron Throne in any terms but their own?

There's a great quote from Richard Attenborough's Gandhi, when the eponymous protagonist is meeting with colonial officials in the wake of the Amritsar massacre. There's a back-and-forth exchange that neatly sets out the differences between the Indian nationalist and British imperialist perspectives, but then Gandhi cuts to the chase: "In the end, you will walk out, because 100,000 Englishmen simply cannot control 350,000,000 Indians if those Indians refuse to cooperate."

So to me, the critical turning point of Daeron's war has nothing to do with any decision he makes, or even any decision the ruling class of Dorne makes. It's when, in the wake of the Submission of Sunspeear the Dornish smallfolk refuse to bend the knee as their feudal overlords have done.

Once that happens, I think there is no way to conquer Dorne and consolidate it into the Westerosi polity. It's a fascinating moment, because it feels very contingent. It's not the case that incorporation into Westeros via elite agreement always fails, after all - look what Daeron II and Maron accomplish a few decades later - but this time the smallfolk of Dorne just would not listen to those above them in the ssocial hierarchy.

#asoiaf #asoiaf meta #daeron targaryen #conquest of dorne

[atopvisenyashill]

that arianne chapter reconvinced me of that theory that the rest of dorne Does Not Fuck With House Dayne Anymore, like, to the rest of Westeros Arthur is a shining example of chivalry and knightly ideals, but Dorne is like “Lewyn had to be blackmailed into fighting for Rhaegar, where the fuck were you when Elia and the babies were slaughtered you useless binch?!” i just think even the other characters do not take gerold dayne even a little serious, they all are aware he’s skilled but it feels like they’re laughing at him behind his back and he knows it.

#dorne is famous for banding together when they face an enemy bent towards subjugation of their ways & not just territory disputes. even mor #than other areas! look at how often a handful of houses will side against their ruling house. in every war! dorne stays united thru #ALL OF THE DORNISH CONQUESTS!! not ONE HOUSE switches to the it. i think no one cared that the yronwoods sided with daemon bc that was #ultimately territory & title nonsense that doesn’t matter. so i think the rest of dorne considered aerys ‘threat to us as a people’ and wer #PISSED the FUCK OFF that arthur didn’t see it that way and stayed at the tower of joy. and take it out on his house. #rani liveblogs asoiaf #house dayne #dorne #the ghost of elia martell

[ginny-anime]

My mothers

#fire and blood #house of the dragon #house targaryen #alicent hightower #house hightower #house martell #princess meria martell #dorne #unbowed unbent unbroken #we light the way #hotd #game of thrones #aegons conquest #team green

[slayer-of333lies]

Vhagar

Nanny Vhagar

(House of the Dragon episode 10)

#house of the dragon #vhagar #arrax #visenya targaryen #hotd meme #got memes #dorn #the conquest #aemond targaryen #aemond one eye #nanny vhagar #hotd #asoiaf #game of thrones #got

[shunnedmorlock]

I think it's indisputable that if a Dornish character were to step out of the page into real life people would consider them to be non-white but I don't think this is particularly relevant within the books themselves. Westeros doesn't have a concept of race and they don't have a concept of whiteness. The Dornish are just as foreign as Northerners and Ironborn, maybe even moreso depending on who youre talking to because the Dornish at least keep the Faith.

If we assume that everyone else in Westeros is supposed to be "white" in the sense of fair-skinned (doesnt make sense i know but since when has Martin's world-building made sense), then the analogous concept to whiteness would be an identity that includes everyone in Westeros except Dorne and that doesn't seem to be a thing. People are bigoted against Dornish people due to cultural differences, but I'd be hesitant to use the term racist because the antecedents of race (colonialism, slave trade, the Inquisitions suppression of Jews and Muslims) don't exist. And I don't like the implication that race, particularly the """white race""" is this eternal thing and not something made up to justify colonialism and slavery

The only people who seem to consider themselves a master race are the Valyrians, and for them everyone in Westeros is different.

(I say all this as a certified Targaryen hater and Dorne supporter)

#skeptical of conquest of dorne being colonialism too #if it was then everyone in westeros is being colonized by the targaryens #valyrianscrolls #dorne #asoiaf

[francy-sketches]

I don’t want an aegon’s conquest prequel either but some people are being so annoying about it for the wrong reasons -_- “oh no I hope they don’t make aegon/rhaenys/visenya toxic >_< they’re supposed to be a perfectly healthy and wholesome uwu polycule 🥺 but ofc hbo are targ antis so they’ll try to hide the truth 🙄” yea sure that’s the biggest concern. God forbid they make the incestuos marriage problematic

#.txt #there’s no such thing as healthy incest you dumb bitch #see this is the problem with adapting the conquest #it’s too boring so if you want some drama you’re gonna have to change shit. but that’s gonna make the targ stans mad #only interesting part would be dorne but the discourse would be insufferable #I can already smell the ‘ugh those dornish savages should have just let themselves be conquered’ takes #what’s this idea that hbo hates the targs lmao. i promise you they do not care

[alicentsaegon]

Broke : Visenya and Rhaenys compete against other for Aegon's affections

Woke : Visenya and Rhaenys were ALSO lovers who never quarrelled for Aegon but the history books would ommit that

#please it is all i want #naturally they will go with option 1 because they are cowards #HOWEVER if the theory that Aegon is actually sterile and the main Targaryen line descends solely from Rhaenys i will forgive them #im going to watch solely for Visenya and her baby boy Maegor i dont care about the rest to be honest #oh and Vhagar #and to see Dorne ripping them a new one #aegon's conquest #visenya targaryen #rhaenys targaryen #asoiaf

[a-chaotic-dumbass]

as a self respecting eastern european i am a firm hater of the targaryens and the conquest. say what u may abt bobby b dorne and the north but im willing to close my eyes and side w em

#chaos reads #srry but they will never be famous to me. fuck em and their dragons #dany too. they will always be russia flavor to me. punk ass cunts #dorne and the north however will ALWAYS be famous unbowed unbent unbroken xx #rhaenys asked to get her ass shot out of the sky sorry. shouldve shot vsenya and aegon too #that said aegon IS a smash (in the head with a rock) #i cant even explain why theyre so russian flavored to me but im watching the conquest and the rebellion and all i taste is salt #no respect for them. 4ever a hater of targs

[lanastromborn]

Conquest Women Artbreeder

QUEEN VISENYA TARGARYEN

Queen RHAENYS TARGARYEN

PRINCESS ARGELLA DURRANDON

LADY ALARRA MASSEY

QUEEN REGENT SHARRA ARRYN

MERIA MARTELL

#aegon conquest #house targaryen #artbreeder #asoiaf #artists on tumblr #aegon targaryen #a song of ice and fire #rhaenys the conqueror #argella durrandon #original content #aegon targaryen x you #visenya the conqueror #queen visenya #volantis #taehyung #music video #elia of dorne #westeros #house dayne #house baratheon #ashara dayne #arianne martell #princess of dorne #elara dorne #walter c dornez #dorne #pre asoiaf #my art #asoiaf fanart #valyrianscrolls

[horizon-verizon]

Finally the queen’s flight took her to Sunspear, the ancient seat of House Martell, where she found the Princess of Dorne waiting in her abandoned castle. Meria Martell was eighty years of age, the maesters tell us, and had ruled the Dornishmen for sixty of those years. She was very fat, blind, and almost bald, her skin sallow and sagging. Argilac the Arrogant had named her “the Yellow Toad of Dorne,” but neither age nor blindness had dulled her wits. “I will not fight you,” Princess Meria told Rhaenys, “nor will I kneel to you. Dorne has no king. Tell your brother that.” “I shall,” Rhaenys replied, “but we will come again, Princess, and the next time we shall come with fire and blood.” “Your words,” said Princess Meria. “Ours are Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken. You may burn us, my lady...but you will not bend us, break us, or make us bow. This is Dorne. You are not wanted here. Return at your peril.” Thus queen and princess parted, and Dorne remained unconquered.

Fire and Blood, by George R.R. Martin pg 23

#dorne #fire and blood quotes #meria martell #rhaenys targaryen #rhaenys the conqueror #rhaenys and meraxes #meraxes #asoiaf quotes #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #Fire and Blood #fire and blood characters #aegons conquest

[wulfhalls]

Isn't daeron gay?? Like has a bf in canon??? Or is that another daeron???

girl thats like 5 daerons down the line lmao that was the son of aegon v

#asks #asoiaf #i want a daeron i conquest of dorne series and when i say that i mean i love him thats my fav daeron out there #and also naerys x aemon b plot i can base my entire personality around for years xoxo

[slaygentford]

I was about to start bitching about how they chose the house I care the least about to do a spin off with bad wigs for but then I remembered how much I hate the got team and how if they were doing SAY; the Martells or the baratheons or obviously the Lannisters I would be -- god if they were doing dunk and egg. -- I would be forced to watch it and forced to suffer and forced to log on every Sunday with my itemized complaints and citations. but because it's targs and because the conningtons don't even exist here I can simply let go and let god

#even if they get to the conquest of dorne its not the Martells. so who wins. I do

[atopvisenyashill]

“why would elaena marry a dornishman when they’re nasty evil people who murdered her poor innocent brother daeron”

maybe because once elaena grew up she realized that there were better ways of bringing dorne into the realm than violent conquest, and that daeron got the death he deserved from not just a nobility that is valid for fearing subjugation from valyria but also a smallfolk sick and tired of these people showing up every few decades to set their principality on fire, and put aside any anti dornish sentiments she may or may not have harbored as a child to see the way her family had directly attributed to their suffering, eventually even falling in love with and marrying a dornish man??

also, considering daeron ii attempts a type of proto-reparations act in bringing dorne into the kingdom, it’s not out of the realm of possibility that someone as intelligent as elaena would recognize the inherent racism in the targaryen conquest of dorne and especially considering the very loud anti-dornish, deeply anti intellectual faction in the blackfyre rebellions, realized they wouldn’t be kind or understanding of an intelligent woman like herself and had no interest in herself or her daughters (of which she had four!!) getting shoved back into the maidenvault again?

like, daeron i is on some andrew jackson manifest destiny shit, and if it makes me an asshole for thinking “god i wish someone had merked jackson before he genocided & displaced my ancestors, good on the dornish for realizing you can’t negotiate with imperialists” than i am perfectly comfortable being considered an asshole right next to my girl elaena.

#everyone discoursing about the young dragon. listen. they should have tortured him before they killed him too. #anti daeron i targaryen #valyrianscrolls #anti house targaryen #idk just in case. clearly i’m not anti everyone i’m complimenting elaena & daeron ii #elaena targaryen #daeron the good #daeron ii targaryen #getting on my soap box #dorne #also when i say ‘my ancestors’ i mean that jackson passed the indian removal act specifically to remove my tribe (and several others) bc #white people in the midwest didn’t like that we wouldn’t leave. #my tribe managed to work somethjng out and only had to move a couple miles away from our homelands. others in our area were forcibly mkced #*moved. look up the potawatomi trail of death. they marched them thru illinois’ capital. dozens including children died. #also read about the fort dearborn massacre. and rising up from indian country which makes the argument that it wasn’t a massacre #but a battle bc white americans had been raiding potawatomi villages for weeks. so the potawatomi struck back and people to this day insist #it was a massacre just bc the potawatomi were better at fighting than the americans. nah. #u don’t get to wage a war of conquest on an innocent and indigenous population just to turn around and say they were mean for fighting back. #i’m sorry i woke up today and decided to choose violence. i’m in an awful mood aksjdjd

[ginny-anime]

When the Aegons conquest show does happen, they better not change Princess Meria age or looks.

They better keep her as a badasss 80 year old blind princess who’s nickname “the yellowtoad” and still didn’t bow down to the conquerors.

They better not make her young and have her fall in love with Rhaenys or aegon and make it a sad story that the war is between lovers. No it’s a war between the conquerors and a princess.

I wouldn’t be surprised though if they did because it’s hbo.

#fire and blood #house of the dragon #house targaryen #dragons #aegons conquest #aegon the conqueror #rhaenys targaryen #visenya targaryen #princess meria martell #house martell #dorne #game of thrones #iron throne #dornish

[princessnysar]

Prince Aliandre the man knelt twice is the title he is given within the history books of Dorne, and is seen as a somewhat controversial figure within house Martell or so whispers can be said. 

Father of Myriah the queen of the seven , Maron ruling prince of Dorne , Vanora lady of house Dayne, Malor the knight of the towers, Clarisse lady of the sands and Nyssa Martell the viper. 

Grandfather of Kings and princes, who rule from a throne of iron and a seat of the spear and sun, Aliandre wanting the best for his people was said to have agonized over what to do. Dance with house Targaryen more and continue the cycle of violence, or think of his long suffering people, and take advantage of a king who believed in peace and offered a truly wonderful offering. He made his decision, peace would come to Dorne and thou his people may curse his name, he will be comforted that they are now safe. 

#house martell #house martell history #aliandre martell #myriah martell #maron martell #fire and blood 2 #fire and blood #Daeron the Young Dragon #dornish conquest #asoaif #dorne #maester writings project #fancasting

[warsofasoiaf]

Thanks for responding to my question! As a follow up do you think he should have tried diplomacy longer before invading? Also what could have done to convince the Dornish to join?

I can't really answer that without seeing how the negotiations went. Was there a Dornish counter-offer, and what was it if there was? Were Aegon's principal lords invited to the discussion? There's just so much wiggle room there that it's impossible to say whether more efforts at diplomacy would have borne any fruit, or what Dorne could have been offered, if anything.

Thanks for the question, Jedi.

SomethingLikeALawyer, Hand of the King

#dorne #aegon's conquest #aegon the conqueror #aegon i targaryen #what if #feudalism