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ride-thedragon · 3 months

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NETTLES AND RHAENYRA, CHARACTER FOILS.

Because I'm not an English teacher

So the question is, How is Nettles Rhaenyra's foil?

1. Appearance .

Rhaenyra is a pretty standard Valyrian beauty. Silver locks, purple eyes, quite pretty, later on in life we get the change that she didn't lose the wait after giving birth to her kids and becùase of misogyny, her beauty has faded. Features like her long hair worn in the style of Visenya and so on are also mentioned. It's giving the Realm's delight in a real sense (not the weird sense).

Nettles, on the other hand, is juxtaposed as 'ugly'. She's brown, is skinny, has crooked teeth, a nose scar, and has short hair.

The maesters like to play to damn much, basically. But they are described as almost exact opposites. Short and long hair, skinny and fat, white and brown skin, purple and brown eyes, etc.

The narrative purpose is to ultimately show their different upbringing and places in this society.

2. Status

Rhaenyra is shown to be the princess, heir to the throne and queen throughout the book. No matter what happens with her, the security and privilege she has almost always goes over what other women have. Her only real threat is the men (and book Alicent) who have personal stake in her not ascending her throne. She's also entirely spoilt as princess and heir by her father and more so her uncle.

Nettles, on the other hand, is introduced to us as an orphan from Driftmark. We're told she could've been a thief and a sex worker by the time we met her. She has no name, lands, titles, or family that we are presented with in the narrative and her backstory for better or less is a patchwork of what her life was possibly like on Driftmark.

Unlike Rhaenyra, we don't follow every salacious rumour and really don't know much about her past.

3. Dragons

Rhaenyra’s dragon Syrax was a cradle egg hatched to her, a Targaryen custom. She's also the youngest dragonrider at 7 I believe.

Nettles claims her dragon at no older than 16 years old. He is a wild dragon (a distinction given to hatched Targaryen dragons that haven't been riden and live away from the keep) and slaughters many before she claims him.

4. Virtue

The notion of virtue in asoiaf is extremely complex, especially with these two women and the vastly different backgrounds. But virginity and speculation also develops both their characterizations in the narrative.

Rhaenyra allegedly "sleeps" with Daemon to practise what she wants to do with Criston (she's 15-). In the show, it becomes obvious that she almost sleeps with Daemon and officially sleeps with Criston. Either way, promiscuity and naivety are written into her character. The only point of conflict is who is involved with what happened in these instances less than what happened. Later on her promiscuity is brought up when Ser Harwin Strong is said to be the father of her first three children.

On the other hand, Nettles' sexual promiscuity is given to her in the narrative. The claims of her being a whore or sleeping around with shepherds are claims made by men who don't know what she was doing at that time. Men who made similar claims about Rhaenyra and their involvement in her loss of virtue as well. Where these stories differ is in Maidenpool, where the assumption of promiscuity is given a different voice.

This time, maids are alluding to an inappropriately close relationship between Daemon and Nettles (yet again, he finds himself here).

5. Daemon

Speak of the devil, and he will appear.

His dynamic is important to these women and their place in the narrative. Saving one dooms the other, leaving with one isolated the other. His decisions ultimately affect one while benefiting the other.

The cruellest example of this dynamic is him letting Nettles go after being the reason she is trapped in the narrative and ultimately dooming Rhaenyra by choosing to kill Aemond instead of going back to her.

His dynamic with both was also comparable with gift giving and quality time and even inappropriate relationship he developed with both of them, notably around similar ages. ( Both these relationships have significant power imbalances).

Between them both, his affection to one affects the other detrimentally.

6. Jace

Specifically in reference to his death, it's notable that within the narrative, while Nettles is described as crying by herself in response to his death, Rhaenyra is hardened by it.

Also, as symbols for legitimacy and legacy, Jace is the reason Nettles is recognised as a dragonseed, and Rhaenyra's line is secured as her first born, but in his absence, Nettles is delegitimised and said to be not a dragonseed. Around that time, Rhaenyra is beginning to be questioned by all the men around her as well, whereas before, Jace was a notable voice in decisions.

7. Dragons in the End.

They both meet their 'end' in the narrative with Dragons. Rhaenyra is killed by her brother's dragon Sunfyre burns and eats her, killing her in front of her son.

Nettles, however, escapes the narrative on dragonback, with the stories that follow explicitly explaining how dragon fire protects her and leads her to become a deity for the burned men.

8. Children

In the narrative, Nettles has no children. Children would explicitly be a burden in her described circumstances as a mouth to feed and someone else to care for. Effectively, children would trap Nettles in a cycle of poverty and inability to experience ethe freedom presented in the narrative.

Rhaenyra is expected to have children to secure her legacy and reign. Children, especially sons, would be her greatest benefit to ensure her ascension to the throne. They are her biggest strategy and losses throughout the war because of that reason.

This dynamic carries out to a head with the death decree for Nettles. The possibility that she would have a child by Daemon is a definitive reason that her 'treason' calls for her head. A child would give her a claimant but also be proof of infidelity by Daemon. It would be a slight to Rhaenyra’s pride and grief as she at this point has lost 4 children during the war.

9. Loyalty of men

This is one of the most interesting for me because the disloyalty of men for Rhaenyra meant the loyalty of men to Nettles. When the Mootons decide not to kill her, they are traitors to Rhaenyra. When Daemon lets her leave, he's a traitor to Rhaenyra. When Corlys stands up for both her and Addam, he's treated like a traitor. Furthermore, the Mootons turn to Aegon’s side directly after because they did not obey her for two reasons, Nettles being accused and sentenced without trial, and Rhaenyra wanting them to break guest right.

Within the narrative, at that point, loyalty to Rhaenyra was a sentence on Nettles' life, and loyalty to Nettles was treason to Rhaenyra.

Conclusion.

In other ways, like the impact of their legacy, the symbols of their identity (dragons), other ways that their narratives with Daemon (the stories) play out and so on juxtapose these women against each other in the narrative. Age and innocence in both a meta and narrative sense also play into Nettles being a foil for Rhaenyra’s character. Personally I think the reason ts written that way is for Nettles to cause a Stark difference in behaviour with men like Daemon and the Mootons as well as to show the contrast of what is expected and what is to be done and what actually happens.

Hope this helps 🩷🤎

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bohemian-nights · 2 months

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Such stories make for charming songs, but poor history.

#daemon targaryen x nettles #daemon x nettles #nettles x daemon #dettles #daemon targaryen #nettles #nettles asoiaf #nettles F&B #asoiafedit #valyrianscrolls #bngifs #flashing gif #bnedit

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green-ajah-aes-sedai · 7 months

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Nettles

Hardly a likely paramour for a prince, one would think.

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chrkrose · 2 years

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Rhaenyra about Nettles | Cersei about Brienne

#asoiaf #brienne of tarth #nettles #jaime lannister #daemon targaryen #jaime x brienne #daemon x nettles #rhaenyra targaryen #cersei lannister

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sunnysideaeggs · 5 months

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Opinions on Daemon and Nettles?

oh they’re so funny and interesting to me. for starters, i think they had a romantic/sexual relationship and that he loved her, or at the very least cared a lot for her.

this is incredible for me because daemon is just the worst very-black-grey character ever without any redeeming qualities except maybe being a good warrior AND loving nettles. he took her in, cared for her (in a more “focused on needs” instead of “focused on flashiness”), protected her, risked his life for her and ultimately when she left him he decided life was no good anymore.

he’s the perfect example of the (wicked) prince falling for the commoner cinderella style, even more meaningful when nettles is the only black character in canon, and all of his other love interests are valyrian/valyrian looking (mysaria is not asian and laena is not black in the books. this impacts their characterization too). we just saw a glimpse of daemon being a semi-good person and maybe he could’ve been a little less self centered if he had been allowed to be with nettles. or maybe not. who knows.

as for netty, i think she was a girl who just wanted to survive and decided to take her chances and tame a dragon (both sheep stealer and daemon). maybe she loved him, maybe she cared for him, or maybe not. that doesn’t make her any less of a honest or good person in my opinion. she deserves all the care in the world she wasn’t granted, and while daemon “loved her” he still was in a relationship with a teenager.

and because her feelings and inner thoughts weren’t explored at all in f&b, it’s up to the readers (and hotd writers) to decide her feelings about daemon, always being mindful that this is a young girl who essentially couldn’t say no (she’s a commoner, he’s a prince) and it’s wrong to demonize her and characterize her as a home wrecker/whore as some characters in-universe do. if you ask me, i think she cared for him, and enjoyed his attention and affection. i’m glad that she got to live in peace and away from her wretched in-laws tho.

#sunny answers ☀️🍳#daemon targaryen #nettles #daemon x nettles #anti daemon x rhaenyra #anti rhaenyra targaryen #(just in case)

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infinitestalia · 1 year

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The showrunners cannot handle the Nettles plot without upsetting the Daemyra stans. If they portray daemon as a pedophile cheater and Rhaenyra as the angry jilted wife, the stans will revolt. If the portray his relationship with Nettles as platonic, maybe even parental, then the stans will scream misogyny over Rhaenyra's violent actions regarding Nettles. To appease the Daemyra stans, they will have to remove Nettles from the plot entirely (and I wouldn't surprised if they do)

Then they should just stop adapting the show. Will they rob Aegon of his greatest scene too? No way they can cut Nettles, not only is she important narratively & thematically, the optics of cutting the only canonically black character to appease those incest freaks would finish them.

She's also vital to Daemon's character. That old perv was obsessed with her, would not be parted from her, chose her over Rhaenyra and when she left, essentially went on a suicide mission rather than go back to his wife. He has zero redeeming qualities (which would be fine if he wasn't so boring), but him sparing Nettles' life against Rhaenyra's deranged wishes and sending her away (in the middle of a war where they need every dragon) is the only truly good act this bum has ever done. Her existence challenges everything he's ever believed about his inherent Targaryen superiority. You can't say he's made up of equal (lol) darkness & lightness, and then take away the only lightness he has.

#although you can't even say that is a lightness bc he's a 50yro in love with a teenager #but for his nasty ass brothel preferences this is probably a massive step up in morality #he is such a loser like...#lol. thank god for aemond. a villain worth watching #anonymous #nettles #daemon x nettles #anti daemyra #anti daemon x rhaenyra #anti daemon targaryen

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readerbell · 1 year

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No. Nettles is not Daemon’s daughter.

No. Rhaena will not take on Nettles’ storyline no matter how hard Daemyra stans cry about it. George said just last week he’d love to have written a novella about Netty. The show isn’t going to get rid of one of his faves.

And no, Nettles isn’t Daemon’s daughter. That’s never even suggested. In fact, George goes out of his way to show how she tames Sheepstealer (a wild dragon) in the ways of the Shepherd Valyrians of old.

The closest Fire and Blood gets to suggesting a paternal relationship is Maester Norren saying he treats her as any man would a daughter. A man who doesn’t know Daemon would mistake special attention, gifts and constant companionship with a younger girl as that. The book never includes mention of Daemon’s relationship with his kids so idk why people think his actions towards Nettles are paternal as if he has a long history of paternal acts for his children. The only evidence we have of him acting like that is with the girl he goes on to marry: Rhaenyra herself.

In fact, let’s have a read of the different accounts about this relationship:

The Princess and the Queen suggests they’re lovers.

Norren’s account about the relationship being paternal isn’t in The Princess and the Queen. There, Daemon and Nettles are said to be lovers.

“Long leagues to the North in a castle overlooking The Bay of Crabs, another lord found himself sliding down a sword’s edge as well. From King’s Landing came a raven bearing the queen’s message to Manfryd Mooton, Lord of Maidenpool. He was to deliver her the head of the bastard girl Nettles who was said to become Prince Daemon’s lover.

The World of Ice and Fire outright calls them lovers:

Sheepstealer was eventually tamed by Nettles—a plain, baseborn, disreputable girl who fed the dragon mutton day by day until it became used to her. The dragon and its rider played their part in the war, but Nettles’s loyalties were not so clear as brave Ser Addam’s. When she and Prince Daemon became lovers it drove a final wedge between Rhaenyra and her lord husband.

The extra content from HBO in the GoT Blu-ray releases is clear they’re lovers

This also calls them lovers. They even have Oberyn narrate it for extra salaciousness.

As well as her dragon, the girl had taken to riding Daemon.

Fire and Blood falls on the side that they were

And in Fire and Blood itself, even Gyldayn concedes that given everything they know about Daemon, Mushroom might just be right this one time.

None of this constitutes proof that Daemon Targaryen had carnal knowledge of the bastard girl, but in light of what followed we must surely judge that more likely than most of Mushroom’s tales

The Rise of the Dragon suggests they were lovers

Then there’s the 2022 publication, The Rise of the Dragon, which doesn’t include any mention of a paternal relationship between the two of them. In fact, they say Norren supported the idea that Daemon & Nettles were lovers.

However, Mushroom suggested another cause for Daemon’s unwillingness: that he and Nettles had become lovers. This theory is supported by the Chronicles of Maidenpool, maintained by Lord Mooton’s maester, who remarked that the prince and Nettles were inseparable, their bedrooms were adjoining, and that Daemon often gave her gifts and even shared a bath with her.

So you have 4 different tellings of the story vs 1 that includes Norren’s and is easily dismissed in-world because it goes against Daemon’s nature and is contradicted by what others who were there saw too. Daemon was never faithful to Rhaenyra. He slept with Mysaria too but it’s Nettles people have a problem with. Why do you think the man who slept with other women at court would suddenly stop? We already know age isn’t the thing that stops him. He was always known for going for young girls. Nettles is definitely his preferred demographic. Not only that, she tamed a wild dragon without having Valyrian blood. She speaks to him in a way no one else does probably. She also tears down his world view about Targaryen exceptionalism in the way Brienne pierces Jaime’s own hubris about himself.

George replicates Cersei/Jaime/Brienne in this trio’s story. Rhaenyra becomes a tyrant, like Cersei. Daemon grows jaded by the war. He spends time with his Brienne like figure and starts to rethink things. Rhaenyra sends him an order calling him to return, just as Cersei does to Jaime as the Faith Militant turns against her. Jaime burns Cersei’s letter. Daemon allows Nettles to escape. Ceraxes’ wail breaks the windows on Jonquil’s Tower, named after one half of the most famous lovers in Westeros. Like them, Netty and Daemon are also tied together by the singers after this farewell (I think he dies but it’s notable that the singers memorialise them together).

After Daemon let’s Nettles go, he doesn’t return to Rhaenyra despite her order and the urgency of her need for him. He spends 2 whole weeks in Harrenhal. He never sends her a letter explaining his relationship with Nettles (if she’s his daughter as people love to say). He never flies to KL. He never even goes hunting for Aemond. He chooses to die all because she chose to order Nettles’ killing. Before that he’d been fighting to live.

I didn’t ship the two of them but given the racist undertones of so much of Daemyra stans’ hatred for her, I’m shipping this out of spite.

#nettles #daemon targaryen #daemon x nettles #anti daemyra #ASOIAF #fire and blood

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venusintheblindspots-blog · 8 months

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Finally found a picture of my fan cast for Nettles in a crime hoodie :)

Actress/Angely Gaviria

Now her and Daemon can match :

#I would read a Nancy drew type of fan fic about this #where they’re both suspects and detectives #daemon x nettles #daemon targaryen #nettles asoiaf #nettles f&b #asoiaf nettles #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #house of the dragon #hotd

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fictonrantsworld · 6 months

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I really am wondering on how hotd is going to reason out as to why nettles chose the mountains of the vale to got to at the end.

Like I know the vale were with the blacks but, why did she remain there afterwards...I honestly just hope hotd will cover what will happen to both Nettles and Alys(and her and aemonds son) after the dance.

#hotd spoilers #nettles #vale #hotd #daemon targeryan #daemon x nettles #alys rivers #aemondicito #😆

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lovelipton · 8 months

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Chapter 4

Smut warning: Masterbat!on.

It seemed a betrayal to imagine her. It was an unfair thing to lust for.

He grabbed the oil jug from atop his fire place, taking it to his night stand, coating his fingers as he sat down, trying to conjure up any other image.

The blood orange smell had lingered on him, adding to the difficulty of the situation. The tallow oil smelled like her hair. Perhaps he should ask a maid, at least one would be willing. The thought back to their lingering touches and wanting stares during his bath, pretty girls, older than his companion, their pale hands gliding over him with a wet cloth, how his hand slid down the girls back, how the smell could take him back if he gave in.

He stopped himself, mindlessly grabbing his neglected cock with the oiled hand, trying his best ignore his thoughts. He slid his hand, in the same memorized way from his youth and tried his best to be quick.

He thought about his wife, the salt air the first time he had her, a time where it was need and not want, the feeling of her thigh against his hand, her mouth on his. When she was younger, all those years ago in the brothel.

His hand picked up speed, he felt himself building to the needed climax. His head arched back, lost in older memory. He stroked his tip, grunting with his dependence on the budding release.

The stench of stale ale in the air, the mindless interlocked bodies her eyes pulled to. Nettles eyes would pull like that to any new thing shown to her, the ale was polluted with the stale wine.

If he stopped now he wouldn’t finish, he was a man lost to his urges. His mind flashed to her, half dressed, undressed, licking her lips, laughing and looking up at him, mouth ajar for what ever reason. It felt wrong to imagine, he tried to think to anything else but a memory of her would cloud his mind and judgement for what was right. All he knew was what he needed to do. He was almost there.

He grunted with each stroke, on the brink of his anticipation paying off. He heard the knock at the door and couldn’t answer. He leaned into himself, tugging away mindlessly. The oranges danced with his building sweat. A coating covered him as he drew near than he had been in months, her round breast, revealed itself from her raven coils, he could taste his peak.

He could hear her calling his name, through their door, he didn’t know if he was half conjuring it.

“Daemon?”

His peak came with the swing of their door, a curious call of his name and a strained grunt at her intrusion.

“Sorry, Your Grace.”

Ever quick, she recognized his state, wide eyed to be sure with a quick apology and pulling the door back shut, he was past the point where he could stop himself. He dropped his cock as it spurted over the floor, the immediate guilt and relief flooding him together.

He placed his hands at either side of him, nearly delirious with the relief of his expectation, he steadied himself and recognized where he was, what he had done to get there, almost angered by the new clarity.

He could apologize to her to her enough to justify it, he had to apologize to her now for what happened. The door wasn’t locked on his insistence to his side, he should’ve spoken to send her away. He felt no control over it all, a deep desire settled in his soul over it.

He stood up hazily and got dressed, wiping the sweat off his skin and rinsing away all the musk that had developed in its arrival. He knocked the door of and searched her room to find it empty and unmade. He closed the door and made his way to breakfast through his room, he had no desire to see the state he left his in.

He felt hollow as he made his way to the dinning area, unwilling to face the myriad of emotions he could anticipate from her, he doubted he would look less that guilty at her, her face changing into something more desired now.

He walked in on her, in deep conversation with Maester Norren and Lord Mooton, she’s the first to recognize him in the room.

She stands as he would expect, a glimpse of shyness lingered in her expression, avoiding his eyes entirely, preserving her serious expression as the others join her greeting. He made his way at her side. They all sat together, going into a less intense version of the previous conversation , she refused to meet his eyes.

“You should ask him now that he’s here. Perhaps you’ll listen to him.”

She was never impolite, if she was angry her tone would say but she simply sounded flustered, with the same restrained anger she met him with more often than not.

“What is your request my Lord?” He stared at the fat country Lord, seemingly caught up in the throws of the previous conversation. He looked towards the girl, who focused intently on the porridge in front of her, idling herself by playing with it, breathing deeply to calm herself.

He wondered if she had cared about what she saw, if his worry would even matter after he heard what the Lord said, it didn’t seem to impact her day as much as he had.

“I’m simply curious about the possibility of you both splitting up, to find Vhagar and cover the Riverlands with your protection.”

He could feel his anger rise with the closing of the statement, seeing why there was need for the argument in the first place.

Did he think they sat on dragon back each day to waste time?

That they simply enjoyed the others reactions to the piles of bodies they’d stack every other week?

He felt Nettles heat leave her as he restated what seemed to be the same conversation to him. She was as anxious as she was angry.

The girl couldn’t sleep for so long, at least having someone near her, making sure she would was a comfort. He doubted whether she would eat alone or take care of her self without his insistence. She drank herself to peace just the last night.

His grand plan never made her a causality, he recalled. She’d always go back to Rhaenyra’s side as he went after Vhagar. Even as a suggestion the girl was in danger by herself against Vhagar. No one dragon could stand alone against her.

He gripped the knife in his hand tightly, trying his best to rationalize his anger before he spoke. Did he think the girl was here in jest for company alone?

He felt a warm thing grab his thigh, shifting his demeanor to confusion , he looked down then up at her, a weary expression trying to reassure him, in some small attempt to quell a dragon’s tendency. He could feel himself calm, wondering if she used the same method on Sheepstealer before.

He turned back to the scared Lord, resting the knife down before he responded.

“It would be a useless feat, no dragon alone would stand against Vhagar, even I need someone at my side to make sure I return. Her grace is very adamant on that front.”

She moved her hand back to herself and he felt the warmth leave him, almost hostile in its departure. Her food busied her as the conversation continued, over breakfast, entailing small notes about the following steps towards a quicker end to his nephew.

He checked on her throughout the conversation, sometimes justifying it by making sure she took note of certain places, other times to ensure her presence, just to gage her reaction. By the time they were done he was sure he had paid her more attention, against his better judgment.

“We will leave you both to discuss further, Your Grace.” The Maester stated before departing behind his Lord, it couldn’t have been after nine when he and Netty were finally left alone.

She was wearing a Targaryen red dress, truly made for court, she found a way to make it look like an appropriate dress for the occasion, it dipped low like a King’s Landing style he noted before turning away with he thought, entirely.

“Did you finish?” The question sounded common place out of her mouth , for a moment he felt the air get knocked out of his lungs.

His expression caused her to muffle a laugh, and he found, hearing the air leave her as well. For a moment, they waited for their composure to wash over them before the conversation flowed.

“I seem to have taken to making a fool of myself with you. I owe you my apology.” In a better light, he’d see it as a just remark to make, but even the knowledge that she had helped him to finish seemed wrong. The only comfort was that she didn’t know.

“ I think it is a new talent. You did avoid the notice entirely.” She said, stifling a laugh. He recalled the morning before, and he looked for the cut to explain the blood from a young lady. He seemed to lose his sense around her. He remembered how her voice sounded half fantastical at that time, the expanding of her in his thoughts.

“I was caught off guard, to be clear. Then the last conversation made me see red, I could imagine how you felt.”

The fire her hand stoked had yet to disappear, being around her seemed secretive and new. Her scent seemed alluring, her easy smile entranced him, so surely, he thought, he could breathe her like life itself.

“It’s done now, you have the day to recover.”

It was cruel, he thought, to desire her when he’d barely earned her trust. He only just started to see glimmers of the light Jace had written about. Had it not been for the prolonged and hollow description of her appearance, he would’ve thought the boy had half fallen for her. Now, he understood why the words felt the way they did, appearance or otherwise.

“You and Jace were close?”

He regretted it the moment he asked. He saw the way she transformed at the mention of his name, seeing her reaction to it, like someone had stabbed her through the heart. She dropped the spoon for her food and rationalized the question. He wished he could move from it all together.

“He looked out for me, more than he did for the others.” Her voice lacked any emotion, like she was keeping a secret about them from him. Had he known either of them else, he would’ve thought he stumbled onto an affair.

“That was nice of him. He wrote fondly about you.” He held the goblet of watered wine to his lips as she gazed off to the side. He wanted to go back to the people they were before.

“He liked to care. One of the better traits he had. He’d get angry like you. That was a worse one.” He heard the hint of a smile, but her words hit him hard now. Jace was argumentative, never really taking to him like a father, more so a ward, more so an uncle, he supposed.

They had a shared grief over him over Viserys, and even as she seemed to close herself off from the emotion it caused, she cared enough to allow for the understanding. He knew he had taken to all the children in her own strange way, but even now, it seemed the first time he shared his grief rather than felt it alone. It had torn at Rhaenyra, he recalled, a mention of what they had lost would take her away from court, a sentiment he couldn’t share with her.

“I should go check on the dragons, I’m sure they’ll be glad for the break.” She stood up, distant and monotone, excusing herself without his response, walking away with the warmth. She left him cold and almost desperate.

He’d heard from the shepherds that she’d whistle to call Caraxes. In another light, it seemed as though they were singing through the whistling. She wouldn’t miss a day without feeding her dragon, flying or not, dragons bend easier when fed.

Perhaps they understood each other better than he could imagine, they’d understand being hungry, he supposed, from her eating habits, it was a way to show love, to bond with such a new relationship. The first rider of an eighty year old dragon was a big feat for such a small girl.

The rest of their day was spent apart until dinner. She had gone to Jonquil’s pool, a famously dangerous place for Targaryens, stopping by to announce it and then disappearing altogether for the evening period.

He lost himself in the letters, distracting himself from what now seemed like his worst impulse, responding to Lords who wished for protections, Lords who needed aid and the Lords at court who seemed to worry about the Queen, succession and all the things he was less glad to be away from now.

He was mapping out the route for them to take in the following days, when he heard the mouse of her presence. He called out twice to no response before their door eased open, an unkempt head of hair meeting him before her eyes did, a glimmer of light meeting him after the daunting day.

“How are you?”

He asked, looking at the blue evening dress coming into view, hugging her frame as she made her way to him. He preferred her in red.

“It was fine, no murder attempt.” The ease from before still had yet to take back her voice, a trend he hoped wouldn’t continue in his presence. One he hoped he’d gain

“I should’ve gone next week, with the full moon.” In passing, she’d mention something akin to a superstition she held. He didn’t think she prayed to the seven, judging from the Septa’s reaction to her she didn’t intend to but some small beliefs held in her.

“You pray to moon gods?” He asked passively, drawing out a trivial conversation , just to stay with her for a while, before they went back to the day to day.

“A little faith is always good. I suppose Targaryens would believe in themselves.” He looked up at her, comprehending the jab before returning to the map across his table.

“Then you should try it, unlike other Gods, your dragon will never disappoint you.” Unlike her Dragonstone bred peers, she never clung to the idea that she was a Targaryen. Unlike Addam and Alyn, she never claimed to be Laenor’s spawn or a Velayron.

She was simply a dragon rider, almost insulting the legacy of Targaryens with the refusal. It seemed more interesting than ill meaning, to him at least. What girl did not want to be a Targaryen?

“I wouldn’t prefer it, you’ve grown around men for too long, it makes the faith less believable.”

He smiled down at his map, trying his best to avoid her quick remark towards his suggestion. He decided to deflect from it all together.

“You should sleep better tonight, or you can have the maester make you a sleeping drought.”

He could feel his heart rise at the mention. She still hadn’t told him about her lack of sleep. Her history at Maidenpool with Milk of The Poppy or the sleeping drought wasn’t more than a secret understanding he could never uncover. Thankfully, she seemed unconcerned with the suggestion.

“I slept a while last night, I’m sure it’ll be better tonight.”

He recalled the dark bags under her eyes, the redden gaze that met his, the dirt from the day caked on her until this morning. He wondered if she would lie to him so carelessly, he glanced at her to see a look of understanding on her face. Perhaps she had forgotten, like with the Poppy milk.

“You didn’t look well rested?” He quirked an eyebrow to her, wanting to absolve her of the misunderstanding.

“I had a bad dream. I got up and couldn’t go back to sleep, hence the wine and tired look.” She fumbled with her hands, avoiding his look with the newly revealed information.

“The wine isn’t acceptable, I’d prefer the drought.” He sounded like his father the first time he visited Dragonstone after his wedding to his first Lady wife.

“ It wasn’t to sleep, I just..” She stopped herself, drawing his full attention to her now, this was a new conversation they had gone too.

“I just wanted to get rid of the thought of the dream, to lose some control over hearing the same thing repeatedly.”

She sounded like him when he justified his drinking to his grandmother after the wedding. He should wait, he knew he shouldn’t push to far with her, he’d get less understanding if she closed off entirely. The thought that she could be opening up was too tempting to ignore through, the hope she’d put the trust in him was pulling him like a tide to follow the conversation.

“What was the dream?”

He sat down looking up at her, she seemed delicate with the candlelight around her. She was water in his hands, he was scared to let go of her, for the first time they were as close has they had been because of her.

“ Nothing truly, I’m just a stupid girl who can’t quiet the stupid questions in her mind.”

Corlys had guessed that she was no older than ten and six, according to his ship mistress, she was a child on Driftmark with the others. He still had never heard her call herself a girl, now, she never seemed to capture the word well. He guessed she’d been an adult for longer that she was a child on the streets Addam claimed she resided on.

“What could be so bad?” It was half a plea to her, half a question for himself, what had plagued her thoughts so bad she’d need to escape her mind.

“I’ve been like the people we aid longer than I’ve been a dragon rider.” His shock from her answering the question couldn’t be concealed but she barely looked at him as she confessed her plight, he could only listen.

“They drop like flies, while I’m hunting the largest dragon alive, it doesn’t seem likely that I survive it.”

Her confession felt like someone had slapped him, she was almost mouse like now, quite in the space she held, dimming her own light, allowing the darkness to shine.

“I promised you..” He began forming some response, some sense of understanding in what she said, a comfort he’d given himself at the thought of her in danger, in that situation.

“ Yesterday, men clung to me begging for their lives to end, fathers and sons alike. Bigger and stronger than I’ve ever been. Terrified and dying because of the only thing that makes them not like me.”

Her voice was distorted with the anger and sadness that possessed her, he couldn’t remember the last time someone had been so open with him.

He’d give her whatever he could. He was never more sure that she’d never fight Vhagar.

“It was too much , all at once but I’m fine now.” He hadn’t hidden his demeanor, the divisive anger that guided his action. He had just wed at her age, she had a lifetime ahead of her, like Jace and Luke, like Viserys. She had children, chaos and adventures , written in her spirit.

It seemed a cruelty for her to doubt it.

“I meant my promise to you, Netty.”

He stared at her, catching her fallen gaze before it met his, staring past her, if she could trust him, even for a moment now, all would be well worth it.

“You’ll have a lifetime for yourself, I swear on Caraxes.”

She chuckled at the implication, seeing it as no more than a false comfort to pull her out of her doubt. She probably had a lifetime of promises from men just like him. He had never meant anything more though, he could feel the promise seal into his very bones.

“It is all well now, Daemon. No need to drag Caraxes into nightmares.” She was joking, he felt as though he’d gotten too serious now. She’d retract the new position she held him in if he pushed anymore, he’d settle for her contentment now. His plan seemed to settle more together than ever now.

“Very well.” He stated as she sat down next to him. He informed her about their mission to Pink Maiden, then to track where he might go from there to try to ambush him. She was quiet for the rest of the conversation.

They ate in his room that night, a simple meal of Acorn soup , with small conversation about packing between them. He felt almost mad looking for a difference in her demeanor with him, waiting to see if the confession had changed anything between them, with a resounding no by the end. She was content with it between them and moving along as though it hadn’t existed at all. He felt trapped in a desert with no water around him as they finished.

She wished him a good night and closed the door behind her shortly after the meal. He was a deranged man he thought. The thoughts left him half mad, devouring him until he had to put it away.

Tomorrow would be a new day for him hopefully.

#house of the dragon #hotd #daemon targaryen #fanfic #netty #nettles #nettles asoiaf #maidenpool #hotd fanfic #from eden ff #daemon targeryan x nettles #dragonseeds #daemon x nettles #nettles x daemon

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daemonxnettles · 9 months

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“God did not give me my life to throw away” -Jane Eyre📖

Nettles 🐑🐉

#nettles #netty #nettles fancast #karla simone spence #bnedit #bnmoodboard #hotdedit #valyrianscrolls #nettles asoiaf #nettles f&b #this is just for fun #dettles #dattles #daemon targaryen x nettles #daemon x nettles #nettles x daemon

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ride-thedragon · 11 months

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I had to explain why a character having autonomy in their narrative and doing something wrong doesn't justify racism and classism.

While explaining that these concepts exist in Game of Thrones and A song of Ice and fire.

The white feminism is dark and full of terrors. George could explain the concept of Intersectional Feminism, like dictionary definition, as the first part of the winds of winter, and some of you still wouldn't get it.

Like genuinely questioning, for a second, if Elia Martell would like the idea that her kids are illegitimate after she almost died twice giving birth and endured Aerys racism and prejudice and bore the brunt of Rhaegar's prophecy.

If Nettles and Daemon slept together, why would you need that to be inherently predatory and blurred consenually. Why should Nettles have to be good and pure of heart in order for you to acknowledge that Rhaenyra was wrong for what she said.

Why do show Baela and Rhaena have to like Rhaenyra? Why is it okay to sidestep the fact that Daemon doesn't seem to care about them after Laena dies?

Why do so many of you in the fandom create a third daughter just between Daemon and Rhaenyra or project onto Visenya (dead baby) rather than using the characters we have that don't have a lot of personality attached to them in the show canon?

The idea that we are "supporting our favorite war criminals" falls flat with the double standards y'all apply to characters (majority women) you all don't like.

Not to mention the way you all go out of your way to oversexualise all Dornish women while claiming canon reason (stereotypes about an outsider group in Westeros). I've seen strange things on these apps

Weird, weird behaviour, and I'll quote Shiv Roy of all people because a lot of you don't understand what you're doing. You just think your perspective is right because it doesn't actively click as a strange or wrong way to operate in the world.

You all tend not to conceptualize women as autonomous beings in these stories unless they fit your narrative. It happens with Sansa, catelyn , Elia, Dany, Arianna, and Nettles, and because of the Hotd canon, all the Velaryon/ Targaryen women.

Even more of you can't seem to see how a victim can project and carry on the systems that oppress them because they are at least above someone morally for conforming to the standard rather than defying it. You can still root for them. (Alicent)

Some of you can't fit the idea that just maybe someone doesn't want to fix the system. They are entitled to be the exception to it. You can still root for them. (Rhaenyra)

Allow women to be characters, view them as characters, not concepts and projections and when it comes to woc in this universe, please understand that there are forms of prejudice that affect them that won't affect, for instance Cersei. There are ideas and concepts that are inherent to world building, and just because you don't see it often doesn't mean it isn't there, it just means we aren't interacting with the characters that experience it.

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bohemian-nights · 8 months

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Nettles 🐑🐉

#nettles #netty #bnedit #nettles f&b #nettles asoiaf #the quote is from lovecraft country #hotd #house of the dragon #hotd spoilers #dettles #nettles x daemon #hotdedit #nettles fancast #valyrianscrolls #Karla Simone Spence #daemon x nettles #this post was brought to you by queue 📺

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chrkrose · 2 years

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Nettles: A Targaryen bastard and Daemon’s daughter?

Nettles is a dragonrider that fought for the Blacks in what’s known as “The Dance of the Dragons”. She was the first, and possibly last, dragonrider of Sheepstealer.

Since I’ve read Fire&Blood, I’ve been fascinated by her character. She is, unfairly imo, not appreciated enough and seriously underrated by the ASOIAF fandom, but I digress.

The reason why I decided to make this post is because, for years now, and in the light of House of The Dragon tv adaptation based on Fire&Blood, I noticed there’s a few theories around fandom where Nettles is concerned that are taken as canon, when in fact they aren’t. So I thought perhaps it would be nice to give my interpretation of certain things, as a fan of hers.

Buckle up, this is going to be huge.

Nettles, a Targaryen Bastard

The Targaryens have pushed for a very long time the idea that only a Targaryen is able to become a dragonrider. Because of that, for the better part of their dynasty, only Targaryens had unrestricted access to dragons. And it’s such a rooted belief, the one that only Targaryens are capable of bonding with such creatures, that Westeros never questioned this unshaken truth.

Targaryens are set apart from everyone else. Their blood purity is so important because they are above the common men.

It had long been the custom amongst the dragonlords of Valyria to wed brother to sister, to keep the bloodlines pure -TWOIAF, The Reign of the Dragons: The Conquest

Narratively, they have compared themselves to Gods many times, and one of the reasons why is because only them, and no one else, are able to tame these powerful creatures. Their power resides in their unique ability to connect and ride such a massive living weapon.

“The Targaryens were different. Their roots were not in Andalos, but in Valyria of old, where different laws and traditions held sway. A man had only to look at them to know that they were not like other men; their eyes, their hair, their very bearing, all proclaimed their differences. And they flew dragons. They alone of all the men in the world had been given the power to tame those fearsome beasts, once the Doom had come to Valyria.” - Fire&Blood

“The line must be kept pure, Viserys had told her a thousand times; theirs was the kingsblood, the golden blood of old Valyria, the blood of the dragon. Dragons did not mate with the beasts of the field, and Targaryens did not mingle their blood with that of lesser men.” -AGOT, Daenerys

Still, history proves time and time again that their belief in their blood purity is misguided,

“For Jaehaerys and Alysanne, however, the death of their beloved daughter must have seemed especially cruel, for it struck at the very heart of the Doctrine of Exceptionalism. Princess Daenerys had been Targaryen on both sides, with the blood of Old Valyria running pure through her veins, and those of Valyrian descent were not like other men. (…) Targaryens did not die of (…) any of the myriad pestilences and contagions that the gods, for reasons of their own, see fit to loose on mortal men and women. There was fire in the blood of the dragon, it was reasoned, a purifying fire that burned out all such plagues. It was unthinkable that a pureborn princess should die shivering, as if she were some common child. And yet she had. Mayhaps the Targaryens were not so close to gods as they had believed. Mayhaps, in the end, they too were only men.” - Fire&Blood

I indeed think early Valyrians bound themselves with dragons somehow through magic, causing a change in their genes that would be passed down generations, and that having Targaryen blood (as the only Valyrian dragonlords to have survived the doom) gives them an advantage to tame the dragons, as they might become more receptive towards them.

With that said, I don’t think this is an essential requirement to become a dragonrider, and having “dragonblood” doesn’t automatically make you a dragon rider. I don’t think you need to have Valyrian (or more specifically, Targaryen) blood to tame dragons.

And I think Nettles is proof of that.

@kaymcgivemeacall has a great meta on Nettles and why her being a Targaryen descendant is not the best choice in terms of narrative when it comes to ASOIF saga, which I fundamentally agree with and was one of the sources I used to gather my thoughts on the matter, that you can read here.

Thematically, it's a lot more powerful if Nettles is NOT a secret Targaryen bastard, and has no Targaryen blood AT ALL in her veins.

It is not only exclusionary to have only Targaryens being capable of taming dragons, it also plays and validates the very idea that blood purity does matter. That the supremacy of a particular race is justified. Which is something that, imo, doesn’t fit with G.R.R.Martin themes in the ASOIAF saga. A series that go out of its way to emphasize how it's the characters' choices that define who they are, and not where they came from or what type of blood runs in their veins.

Within Fire&Blood and other “in world” sources, it is rationalized that Nettles' success came through her unknown parentage. It is assumed that she must have Targaryen blood, since she's able to ride a dragon. She’s then categorized as a Dragonseed, and like that, the myth of the dragon blood is kept alive.

It is a rhetoric, within the world of Westeros, among Targaryens and their loyalists, that makes perfectly sense from a political standpoint. We saw how fast the Targaryen empire crumbled without their dragons. I think it also comes from a place of not wanting to shake an entire system, to shatter such a rooted belief, that has in its very core the premise that Targaryens are the only one capable of being dragonriders.

If the rest of Westeros learned that people who put some effort and persistence in can claim dragons regardless of heritage or bloodlines, how would Targaryens ever hold onto their exceptionalism and idea of supremacy?

Nettles, Daemon’s bastard daughter

Another common theory that is taken as basically canon where Nettles is concerned, and one I’ve seen spread around as fact in many places (specially Twitter) is that she’s Daemon’s bastard daughter.

This theory was born from a quote from Maester Norren, who was a Maester in Maidenpool at the time of The Dance, the place where both Daemon and Nettles made their base while searching for Vhagar.

His description of their relationship is in his Chronicles of Maidenpool:

“Maester Norren writes that […] the prince instructed her in “common courtesies”, in how to dress and sit and brush her hair, and “doted upon the brown girl as a man might dote upon his daughter” - Fire&Blood

I think this quote is often misinterpreted by fandom as a whole. The problem with the theory of Nettles being Daemon’s bastard daughter is that, with the exception of this particular quote above, there isn’t any other textual evidence that Daemon might be Nettles actual father.

Nettles was born in 113AC, in Driftmark. At the time, Daemon had been ruling Bloodstone in the Stepstones, exiled by Viserys, since 111AC, and would not return to Driftmark until 115AC, where he met and married Laena Velaryon shortly after arriving, before flying away to Essos with her. He would return to Driftmark only by 116AC, where he asked Viserys to give blessing to his daughters with Laena and would patch things up with his brother one more time.

I believe that if George wanted us to suspect that a Daemon might have fathered a bastard that later would return to the story and play a significant role in The Dance and in Daemon’s life, he would have made it known that Daemon was in Driftmark when Nettles was conceived/born, he’d have hinted at Daemon sleeping with “dockside whores” in his time there, we’d have more significant clues planted about such twist.

Daemon also was never a character who’s fatherly traits were highlighted, or that fatherhood had substantially changed him in any significant way. He had several children from his previous marriages, so I believe if he cared for a supposedly bastard daughter as much as he cared about Nettles, he’d simply legitimize her as his own. I doubt this would have caused any problems with Rhaenyra, especially because Nettles would have been conceived way before his marriage to the Queen.

So as you see, there isn’t any real textual evidence or even hints that Daemon was related to Nettles in any way.

Now when it comes to the nature of their relationship, there’s more to unpack when we read the several accounts of how Daemon and Nettles spent their time together while in Maidenpool.

When Lord Mooton suggested that they should part ways to divide their search for Vhagar, Daemon refused. His reasons were that Vhagar was too powerful and could not be taken down by only Caraxes or Sheepstealer alone. So he spent his days flying with Nettles. Still, that doesn’t explain why he kept Nettles by his side at all times while in Maidenpool. According to Maester Norren, “the prince and his bastard girl” supped together “every night, broke their fast together every morning and slept in adjoining bedchambers”.

As noted before, Maester Norren was the one to claim their relationship was purely platonic, and sleeping in adjoining bedchambers would imply that they did not share a bed.

But the Maester might have contradicted himself when it comes to that. When Lord Mooton received the orders from Queen Rhaenyra that Nettles should be murdered, but no harm should come to Prince Daemon, Lord Mooton reunited with the captain of his guard, his brother, his champion, Ser Florian Greysteel and Maester Norren himself, to discuss what they should do about the Queen’s orders:

“This thing is easily done,” said the captain of his guard. “The prince sleeps beside “her, but he has grown old. Three men should be enough to subdue him should he try to interfere, but I will take six to be certain. Does my lord wish this done tonight?”

“Six men or sixty, he is still Daemon Targaryen,” Lord Mooton’s brother objected. “A sleeping draught in his evening wine would be the wiser course. Let him wake to find her dead.”

“The girl is but a child, however foul her treasons,” said Ser Florian, that old knight, grey and grizzled and stern. “The Old King would never have asked this of any man of honor.”

“These are foul times,” Lord Mooton said, “and it is a foul choice this queen has given me. The girl is a guest beneath my roof. If I obey, Maidenpool shall be forever cursed. If I refuse, we shall be attainted and destroyed.”

To which his brother answered, “It may be we shall be destroyed whatever choice we make. The prince is more than fond of this brown child, and his dragon is close at hand. A wise lord would kill them both, lest the prince burn Maidenpool in his wroth.” - Fire&Blood

If Daemon and Nettles slept in separate bedchambers, even if those were connected by a door on the inside of the rooms, it would be easier to place several men in front of both doors, and kill Nettles without worrying about the prince interfering while it was happening. It wouldn’t fix the problem of what Daemon would have done once he found out that Nettles was dead, but this is a concern that is only thought about and brought up later in their discussion, which to me proves that their immediate problem was the fact that Daemon would be sleeping in the same bed as Nettles.

Why would Maester Norren “lie” then, about the nature of Daemon and Nettles relationship? I believe the Maester simply didn’t want to acknowledge that Rhaenyra was correct in her suspicion of Nettles and Daemon being lovers, and instead wanted to reinforce that Lord Mooton and himself were right in not following and betraying the Queen’s orders. That they were justified in declaring for the Greens as soon as Daemon left Maidenpool.

We also have other accounts that shine a light on Daemon and Nettles' relationship. While Maester Norren wrote that the prince taught Nettles how to wash, the maidservants who brought water to their bath said that Daemon often shared a tub with Nettles, “soaping her back or washing the dragon stink from her hair, both of them as naked as their namedays”.

Daemon also made and brought her gifts such as “an ivory-handled hairbrush, a silvered looking glass, a cloak of rich brown velvet bordered in satin, a pair of riding boots of leather soft as butter. […]”

This behavior from Daemon towards Nettles resembles the way he behaved towards Rhaenyra when he supposedly tried to seduce her/taught her the arts of seduction early on in Fire&Blood, when Viserys was still alive.

“Daemon spent long hours in her company, enthralling her with tales of his journeys and battles. He gave her pearls and silks and books and a jade tiara said once to have belonged to the Empress of Leng, read poems to her, dined with her. […] Uncle and niece began to fly “together almost daily, racing Syrax against Caraxes to Dragonstone and back.” - Fire&Blood

Honestly, I don’t think Daemon was treating Nettles as a daughter. I think he was actually courting her, even if they already had a (possible) sexual relationship. This speaks of his feelings towards the girl, which in my opinion were more than just simple lust.

And that ties with Daemon’s reaction to finding out that Rhaenyra wanted Nettles dead and what happened after that.

“All we know is that the maester, a young man of two-and-twenty, found Prince Daemon and the girl Nettles at their supper that night, and showed them the queen’s letter. “Weary after a long day of fruitless flight, they were sharing a simple meal of boiled beef and beets when I entered, talking softly with each other, of what I cannot say. The prince greeted me politely, but as he read I saw the joy go from his eyes, and a sadness descended upon him, like a weight too heavy to be borne. When the girl asked what was in the letter, he said, ‘A queen’s words, a whore’s work.’ Then he drew his sword and asked if Lord Mooton’s men were waiting outside to take them captive. ‘I came alone,’ I told him, then foreswore myself, declaring falsely that neither his lordship nor any other man of Maidenpool knew what was written on the parchment. ‘Forgive me, My Prince,’ I said. ‘I have broken my maester’s vows.’ Prince Daemon sheathed his sword, saying, ‘You are a bad maester, but a good man,’ after which he bade me leave them, commanding me to ‘speak no word of this to lord nor love until the morrow.’ ” - Fire&Blood

If she was his bastard daughter, he could have sent word to Rhaenyra about it. He could have gone to her himself, since his life was not in danger. Rhaenyra had been clear that Dameon wasn’t supposed to be harmed. He could have sent Nettles away, realizing that his adventures with her had gone too far, and returned to his Queen’s side, to rule beside her. Daemon could have even killed Nettles himself if their relationship was simply transactional in the sense he wanted someone to sleep with while on his mission, and that would reinforce that even if he strayed away in their marriage, Rhaenyra was still his queen and the one he was loyal to.

Instead, he allowed Nettles to escape alive and unharmed, in a scene that is written to convey how hard it was for them to be parting from each other and that they weren’t doing that willingly:

“How the prince and his bastard girl spent their last night beneath Lord Mooton’s roof is not recorded, but as dawn broke they appeared together in the yard, and Prince Daemon helped Nettles saddle Sheepstealer one last time. […] Maester Norren records, “her cheeks were stained with tears.” No word of farewell was spoken between man and maid, but as Sheepstealer beat his leathery brown wings and climbed into the dawn sky, Caraxes raised his head and gave a scream that shattered every window in Jonquil’s Tower.” - Fire&Blood.

Daemon’s actions after Nettles is gone is to fly towards Harrenhal to face Aemond and Vhagar by himself. It’s a suicide mission: he has no intention of surviving and coming back to Rhaenyra’s side.

“You were a fool to come alone.”

“Were I not alone, you would not have come,” said Daemon.

“Yet you are, and here I am. You have lived too long, Nuncle.”

“On that much we agree,” Daemon replied. - Fire&Blood

Conclusion

It’ll be interesting to see how House of The Dragon will adapt Nettles, and if I’m right in my interpretation of her character, her significance and the nature of her relationship with Daemon. Either way, I hope we get to see these scenes played out faithfully, especially Nettles taming Sheepstealer and Caraxes shattering every window in Jonquil’s tower.

TLDR; Nettles doesn’t have Targaryen/Valyrian blood in her veins and she’s not Daemon’s bastard daughter.

#asoiaf #nettles #daemon targaryen #daemon x nettles #Fire&Blood #house of the dragon

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