#good antagonist I guess

[pokimoko]

The fact that Main-verse Ooo is as good and as kind as it is (relative to the other universes shown so far, at least, it's obviously not perfect) all because of the same character that starts off as the OG series' antagonist, the person we were made to see as the bad guy (albeit an often ineffectual one) for several seasons, is making me lose my mind.

Imagine finding out the guy you spent your childhood beating up and saving princesses from is in fact a driving catalyst behind you being able to exist, and not only exist but also live in a world that knows what kindness is. All because that man, the same man who you've witnessed do terrible things, once met a little girl and taught her how to be good.

Simon's story really shows us that even if you lose your way and forget how it is to be good yourself, the world keeps the memory for you. That act of love Simon showed Marcy by protecting her and seeing her as more than the monster she thought herself to be created ripples upon ripples, small at first but eventually enough to help give their wreckage of a world—a world that easily could have been forsaken, its goodness overlooked because of its inhospitable remains—a chance to grow into something beautiful. Because of those very same ripples Simon created, the people of Ooo grew up in a world where they know enough about kindness that they were able and willing to spare the 'bad guy' some, to see beyond the wreckage and allow him to grow too.

In saving Marceline, Simon helped to not only to save the world, but also himself.

#fionna and cake #fionna and cake spoilers #adventure time #simon petrikov #ice king #marceline abadeer #simon and marcy #meta #this was just a phone note to get thoughts out of my system but then it came out semi-coherent #so welp guess i'm writing meta now. i'm really in the deep end now. but yeah...Ice King and Simon's story being about the power of kindness #A cruel world requires constant cruelty to be maintained. But kindness? That reaches across time. one act of kindness sparks another #'I need to save you but whose going to save me?' That act of love and compassion is gonna save you ya dingus....eventually #In a less kind world finn and Jake could have watched those tapes about Simon and still decided IK was a hopeless cause. #That he was too far gone to be saved. But they didn't. They chose to treat him nicer and actually be friends with him. #One thing i always loved about IK's story is that he didn't have to completely change himself for people around him to treat him better #They changed their perspective and were kind to him and it was THAT that helped him change. to grow beyond the 'antagonist' role #to quote my go to and all time favourite good place quote: #'the point is people improve when they get external love and support. How can we hold that against them when they don't?' #Arrgh sorry I just always loved Ice King's arc in the show. From pesky antagonist to the person Finn dived into a chaos god to save #(the world's new beginning and its near ending being all because of simon. he has such main character energy and boy does he not want it) #And now we're getting Simon stuff and I'm so normal I'm so normal I'm so normal (<- has never been normal about this character) #(i...i have many MANY drawings of ice king and simon from 2015 and the years after. i was doomed from the start. F&C was the final straw) #(as was reading marcy's secret scrapbook recently...and here i thought i'd truly reached the capacity of hurt i can feel about these two) #Going insane over these last two episodes. 'she didn't have a me'. Fionna and Simon bonding. Gumlee kiss. PETRIGROF BACKSTORY #and the implication that Simon isn't remembering it accurately? Their sweet sounding love song actually foreshadowing their issues? #I am clawing at the walls. thank you AT crew you are enriching the enclosure that is my brain

[lilac-cat-draws]

These two have so much in common I couldn't stop thinking about it

#Geppetto somehow drives me up the wall more than any other shitty dad character I've known #I guess in a good way cuz this is an antagonist I genuinely despised #No I am not over Romeo and Carlo #genshin impact #genshin #wanderer #genshin wanderer #lies of p #pinocchio #lies of p spoilers

[strawberryscare]

i don’t know if i’ve ever genuinely been scared of an npc of dimension 20’s until bobby dawn

#the way he talks so slowly it feels like tiptoeing on creaky floors #other antagonists in d20 i’ve definitely felt like grossed out or prickly but his intro makes me feel DREAD #the music was so good for it #i guess the cloest feeling i have is when robert moses said the thing abt bubbles to pete in tuc? #or that one really horrible convo between tony and sofia in tuc2 #but like. jesus #d20 #fantasy high #dimension 20 #fantasy high junior year #fhjy spoilers #d20 fhjy #bobby dawn #buddy dawn

[4lph4kidz]

something that irks me quite a bit is when people disavow the shitty stuff in homestuck by saying the only good thing about it is the fandom instead of engaging with the source material critically. i think it is really sidestepping the issue. like i get it, i get that such hostility has been encouraged by the author's antagonistic creative persona and absolutely incoporated into the work itself but i personally do actually like the source material for what it is despite being incredibly critical of it and the author's writing choices. idk. trying to pull this misunderstood ass version of death of the author by acting like the material's only worth lies in being raw material for a fandom to feed upon and repurpose into its objectively better form, and just overall lionizing the fan community rubs me the wrong way

#babbling #then again there are people who are just in it for the fandom #which is fine i guess there's a lot of work out there which is more enjoyable or enhances the good things about the source material #maybe i'm just projecting my own fears about being a creator though #if a community decided they DESERVED my ideas more than i did in such an antagonistic way i would be devastated i think #and i say this as someone who has said stuff along the lines of 'hussie has lost custody of this character' lol #not to mention the fandom isn't a force of good exactly #it's not just cringe culture though that's absolutely a factor #there's some amazing people and ideas and creative work out there but ye gods man it's got a reputation for a reason

[aroaessidhe]

2024 reads / storygraph

Most Ardently

YA historical romance

retelling of Pride & Predudice following a closeted gay trans boy who’s expected to attend balls and look for suitors

he sneaks out at night dressed as a boy, and ends up spending a lot of time with a boy who’d been rude to him at a function, but is more open with him like this

as they grow closer, and he faces increasing pressure to get married and to be a proper woman, and has to decide how he’s going to face his future

#Most Ardently #aroaessidhe 2024 reads #this is very sweet I enjoyed it #I can’t really speak to it as a retelling because I’m not intimately familiar with the original but. pretty good I think. #I liked how he was already out to some people& his coming out to everyone else was pretty smooth/accepting (other than his mother initially #really the only transphobia comes from the antagonist a bit and I guess in general him being closeted for most of the story #- like there’s no real fear of super bad things happening as a reader #and of course marlowe lune’s cover is fantastic #romancing over shared interest in books is always good

[majiburger]

i think akashi is the first player we get with a tragic family backstory. all the other boys are just invested in the game, but his pressures don't end once he steps off the basketball court. i've heard people say knb has no redeeming "villains," but a domineering father, a possible mental disorder and the death of his mother preceding everything that happened at teiko seems understandable enough, no?

#i will definitely say...this plotline kind of borders on ableist #but no redeeming main antagonists? the only people who fit that description were hanamiya and haizaki weren't they? #either way. kuroko and akashi are very similar; they both didn't want to lose the others but ended up losing them anyway #akashi's response to that was to go solo. kuroko's response was to embrace the brotherhood of seirin #power of friendship reasons aside...kuroko is obviously the more logical one since no one is good enough to stand against 5 players alone #but i guess you can forgive akashi since he was clearly going through it and it's his dad's fault for being a dick #bee rewatches knb

[braisedhoney]

y'know i always say i tend to like villains (or at least antagonists??) more than the protagonist, but what i don't know is like. Why.

did i have one specific childhood villain that just formed my taste in characters for the rest of time??? if so wtf was it? i need to unravel my own lore it's driving me up the wall.

#ney's idle chatter (random textposts) #i know my fellow antagonist-fans are out there i see you guys #but where did it COME FROM #hhh... my guess is maybe cartoons?? but none come to mind right away #god. what did i watch as a kid #teen titans maybe?? or dragonball z?? #i'm sure there's more in there #gotta love characters that seem way scarier than the narrative should allow #a load of the danny phantom ones probably #... okay maybe this is less of a mystery than i thought #it would be easier if i just went with the oldest one but i didn't watch all these in order #... unrelated kind of but man i gotta rewatch these and see if they're as good as i remember #breaking news: cap'n likes nostalgia. everyone gasp in unison. #lmao #i do have some main characters i like now. but for a long time it was Bad Guys

[shizukais]

#anime #manga #vanitas no carte #vnc #the case study of vanitas #lord ruthven #august ruthven #hear me out ! ruthven is one of the most intriguing characters to me #despite being portrayed as an antagonist i can't really see him completely fitting into that role / ruthven's actions are ambiguous #yea yeah he's a manipulative mf and is doing bad things now but i don't think that's what it's all about #i believe ruthven is being controlled by something (?) through his right eye and has no much choice in that matter #in the scene where ruthven tried to put a curse on chloe he looks almost shocked when he realizes what he was doing #he also spoke to someone who wasn't there and it seemed to be an act of desperation / even though the war was already over (?) by that time #the eye shows him terrible things ever since the war (and the betrayal that i'm not sure if really happened or was staged to trick him) #i think the continuous trauma the eye causes on him shaped him to be a colder and more cruel person #the opposite of what his original self showed to be (someone more like noe in beliefs and world view) #i guess he truly believes he's doing this for the sake of vampires / that idea of “sacrifices will be necessary for the greater good” #this could explain the alliance w charlatan who seeks to find a way to create more vampires (moreau's research) & rewrite the world formula #also it's clear that ruthven has a distorted view of vampire's malnomen (what caused that? what he saw in the war?) #both for his speech referring to luca's brother “salvation takes many forms (...)” and for the way he uses his own curse on others #until now we know he cursed queen faustina / jeanne / noe (i doubt he would betray the queen without a reason) #maybe his right eye is a malnomen he considers now as a form of freedom / or maybe that allowed him to finally see the “truth” #and yet i think his character is constantly questioning himself about it (in a very sutil way) #(e.g. when he listens noe talk about his ideals / when he sees jeanne dressed like a normal girl after her date) #in these moments we can see him falter a little bit and his expression changes to something more soft and genuine / introspective and sad #the curse he put on noe i think it has more than 1 purpose: 1)trump card against teacher 2)to not kill noe as monsieur spider had demanded #at first i thought it might be for naenia get noe's true name but if that were the case she would have done it by now #and in that moment naenia regained her form for a brief moment in d'apchier mansion and everyone felt her presence #ruthven looked equally surprised so he must not know naenia's true identity either (is he being used?) #lol i could write an essay about vnc... so many tags... lol sry i got carried away!

[justcallmecappy]

It's still weird to me that BioWare tried to frame the mages vs templar narrative as a conflict of two wholly opposing sides, when a more compelling conflict-driven narrative would have been templars and mages joining forces to topple the Chantry. - via my Twitter @ justcallmecappy

I posted this on Twitter and thought I'd follow-up with a longer form "what if?" post here, exploring the mage-templar conflict in DAI and how it could have been approached very differently, but still retaining the game's messages and themes of unification, overcoming differences, and people coming together to accomplish great things, by having mages and templars join forces to dismantle the Chantry.

I thought I would draft up a whole outline on how things could have gone down differently; like instead of Lord Seeker Lambert dissolving the Nevarran Accord and breaking the Templars away from the Chantry to hunt mages, it would have been Ser Barris electing to declare the templars independent from the Chantry and opening Templar Rehab early; etc. Eventually the mages and templars would come to the realization they need to work together to bring down the institution that manipulated and abused them, via the Player Character's efforts in bringing about unification.

Then I realized this could never have happened, with DAI being the way it is. In DAI, the Inquisition is painted as a force of stability and positive change, instead of a means for the Divine to rebuild the Chantry's military after losing the Templars. The idea of exposing the Chantry as a corrupt and power-abusing institution perpetuating structural oppression early on in the story -- giving the protagonist an antagonistic structure to take down -- could never have flown, at least in DAI.

I thought I was changing just a small detail in the story. Then realized by doing so, we'd have a completely different story, haha😂

Anyways I still think BioWare handled the mage-templar conflict poorly by trying to pit an oppressed people against their oppressors like it was an equally justifiable fight both ways, and it should have been resolved differently🙂

#da meta #dragon age meta #mage templar conflict #dragon age inquisition #bioware critical #chantry critical #dai critical #anders was right #basically the chantry is like the galactic empire from star wars or the capitol from hunger games to me #they are the antagonistic force that the key conflict is centered on #and yet bioware framed it differently for the sake of a forced 'grey morality' #they tried to make the inquisition into this bastion of goodness and hope #instead of the terrifying force that it is #i mean like no shade to players who want to see the inquisition and chantry that way but #it's weird bioware themselves framed it that way in canon #and i'm like 'ok sure yeah that's a choice i guess' #anyways #inquisitor ameridan was done dirty #fck the chantry

[rivilu]

Everyone's on about Miguel beefing with a 15 yo, which sure it's funny, but y'all are letting the Spot, "I now declare this child that MY INVENTION inflicted this anomalous occurrence on, my lifelong nemesis", the ULTIMATE beef haver, to go unchecked.

#spireverse spoilers #across the spiderverse spoilers #you know at least miguel has the excuse that 15yo or not Miles's actions might cause TWO whole dimensions to collapse #assuming both pavitr's and miles' own dimension have a similar population to ours #thats SIXTEEN BILLION LIVES at stake babes #yah like no i'd also be going kooky crazy in his shoes #ofc his handling of Miles' situation wasn't good but that's not. precisely his job? Breaking the news shouldve fallen on Peter and Gwen #yanno. his actual friends? but they skirted around the subject too much so woops it falls on Miguel now #the most emotionally unsuited for this task guy possible. woopsies. #get ready for the most projection filled fight of your life kid cause it sure is cheaper quicker and easier than therapy! #I jest and the projection part is true but tbh i think too many people in the tags are interpreting Miguel being antagonistic to the rest- #as him having personal beef with children instead of him focusing (too much) on the bigger picture. like..isnt that his entire personality? #the 'fate of the multiverse' guy? cmon now. #the main issue is that miles Does Have To TRY- that's part of the canon event in the first place #trying and failing. if his plan of keeping him trapped until jeff died had worked then his dimension would most likely also collapse #if anything the way things are set up rn is sooo interesting because miles IS precisely on the way to fulfill a canon event #the question is - are they going to play into that- or is there going to be a twist. Gwen's realization that Her dad could in fact Quit - #comes to mind #i for one would find it really funny if the plot of the next movie is trying to convince jeff to quit his job but i doubt it jxnsn #my guess is that since this is basically the variation of the trolley problem where the singular person on the tracks is one you care about #(but said person is simultaneously also on the 5 person rail because if they don't die everyone does) #and miles has decided to just go and stop the fucking trolley itself fnsjsj #the plot's gonna go a bit more all out . /Beyond/ the previous scope- if you will #the only sticking point i have with this movie in general though is pavitr sticking with the group like. #“obviously he would've stuck with miles- he wouldn't want the guy to die!”so you think he prefers the version of events where everyone does #his friends? his aunt - whatever family he has- his girlfriend? EVERYONE? #yeah like nah until he can solidly know that shits gonna be fine in his home world i don't think it makes sense for him to fuck around more #yanno? #not that I dont want to see more of him- on the contrary I fuckin love his design to bits #just saying if miguel drops the bomb that his universe collapsed and my guy switches sides i would not be surprised

[teamfortresstwo]

Hear me out but villains / protagonist swap au . Where . Adam and Charlie get swapped .

#Like okay !! So basically Adam wants to rehab the sinners cause he’ll keeps getting shittier and shittier with its overpopulation problem #and seemingly no one is doing anything about it . But Charlie doesn’t want to because in this au she’s a sadist and enjoys seeing them suffe #r! it’s like entertainment to her ! (guitar solo fuck yeah!) and then Lute can be swapped with Vaggie (honestly if the angel Vaggie theory #turns out right then they feel like they’d make good parallels for one another) then a few wayward sinners take a chance on the hotel that #Adam managed to set up (Charlie doesn’t believe it’ll work anyways so she’s fine with it happening) and among those sinners are the three Vs #! Vox & Al are swapped (obvs) Va and Angel are swapped (kinda iffy on this cause . I don’t want to make Angel a predator nor do I want to #victimize Val given . who he is.) and Velvette can have Nifty’s role ! somewhat conflicted on who j should swap with Husk and Nifty though #I guess the Vs don’t necessarily need specific swaps . they can just fill the roles of ‘sinners who help around / stay at the hotel ‘ #in the same way the og protagonists might not have to be the exact same flavor of evil #just still be antagonists

[tasmanianstripes]

People need to practice minding their own damn business

Don't come into people's inboxes giving unsolicited advice or criticizing their personal stuff. Don't reblog somebody's posts saying how much you hate it and their opinions.

Don't like somebody's characterisation, AUs or the kind of art they post? It might even annoy you?

Okay, cool. Go make your own post. Block them. Be a little hater about it to your friends. It's good for your soul!

But don't be goddamn rude to people. Don't make it their problem.

"I don't like what this artist likes mah mah mah"

Here's a wild idea;

Artists...don't need to cater to you. You are not entitles to their work. Nobody on the internet should coddle you and post only stuff you like.

Shocker, I know.

#thylacines can talk #Yes this is about PK #When you like an antagonist people expect you to be a negative nancy 24/7 and put a disclaimer everytime you make something with them about #how much they suck as a person #Guess what! Having to shittalk your fave all the time to not risk being 'that kind of fan'...isnt fun. It's miserable even! #Anmoying as fuck too! Yes I know he did this unforgivable thing. I'm not an idiot. That's why I like PK. Fucker's got nuance #Is he a bad person? Absolutely. Will I talk about him being a bad person and the horrible things he did? Also yes. When I want to. It's #very fun to explore that part of the story and how it influenced their victims. Will I give you a fucking essay on why he's a bad person #everytime I want to post something funny or lighthearted about him? No. Piss off. #I cannot only focus on angst and heart-wrenching part of the story. I also like to make stuff of the lighthearted parts of my AUs. #And I don't feel like writing down an entire disclaimer and breakdown of how PK's and WL's redemption arcs went to justify it #Having to constantly put disclaimers to justify you liking a morally grey and bad characters is EXHAUSTING. Only being able to talk about #this character with someone when it proteins to how awful they are is EXHAUSTING. #YES they're bad people. But going into peoples dms or inbox or tags and talking to them about how ugly and bad and evil their fave is #exhausting to deal with and NOT fun. Like I. KNOW. LIKE LET ME LIKE A DEEPLY FLAWED NUANCED FUCKED UP CHARACTER IN PEACE WITHOUT HAVING TO #ALWAYS PUT A DISCLAIMER OUT THERE ABOUT HOW AWFUL THEY ARE. GOOD GOD. #It's especially annoying because I like characterisation of PK that is very morally grey. To me purely evil and not compassionate PK is #fun...in a short run. I much prefer a man whos riddled with guilt over what he did even if he believed it to be necessary evil and who dies #Because of his regret. I love the idea of a father who sacrificed his own children so that no parent had to lose their own. And the tragedy #of him deeply loving PV and still doing what he did. A good person who was faced with an impossible choice and committed unspeakable #cruelty for what he believed to be the greater good. A man who doesnt believe he's deserving of redemption not forgiveness and who doomed #himself. I like a nuanced morally grey PK with LAYERS. Treating him as a purely evil uncaring person who never loved his children sucks ALL #the fun out of him for me. And don't get me wrong I LOVE villains who are evil for evil's sake. I LOVE old school Disney villains who are #scumbags just because they can be and have a little bit a swag to it. But PK just. Isn't that kind of villain to me. #I don't even like calling him a villain. An antagonist? Maybe. A morally grey character that kicked off the entire story with his one act #of unspeakable cruelty? Yup. But I don't see him as the villain of HK. #Wow that was a long rant #Well I got that out of my system at least #I love the Pale King and I could talk for HOURS about why I love him as a character and about his actions. It's just tiring when I have to #do it to justify myself and my lighthearted content of him.

[shadow-and-purgatory]

The worst part abt being in a really small fandom is that if you dislike or disagree with the widespread interpretation of a character, it’s impossible to make a post about it because

1) nobody knows what you are talking about except for the people in the fandom, of which there are few

2) “widespread” means 5 very dedicated fic writers and a lot of discussion of headcanons in a discord server

3) everyone in the fandom knows one another. There’s no way that people you know won’t see the post because there are so few posts, everyone will know it is you, and it is difficult to phrase it in a way that doesn’t sound targeted or accusatory because there are so few people

#not saying what I am talking abt here #though I can’t imagine it’d be TOO hard to guess #but guys. guys please. I’m BEGGING for you guys to learn the difference between a villain and an antagonist #please #he is absolutely an antagonist but hes not pure evil! he isn’t even a villain! #we HAVE villains! come on guys #he’s an asshole who’s not really even in the wrong but is still hateable and opposes the heroes in a real way #am I crazy to say that I think that’s more interesting #like. characters can be not good people without being villains #stop flattening antagonists into villains Pls #ramblimgs

[trainingdummyrabbit]

getting people to analyze a difficult dynamic between two difficult characters without insulting surface level aspects of them challenge. Fight

#knyposting again liking both zen and kai has to be a very special version of hell just for me #'zen did a good job in that encounter!!' Yeah!!! 'he did us a favor that other guy is the worst character in the series' Try Again!!!!!!! #'kai is horrible but his motivations are interesting' Yeah!!!!! 'anyone would do that if put next to zen anyway.' I Will Kill You!!!!!!!!!! #<- got jumpscared w a video essay and now im fucking Haunted again. #piktalk #kny spoilers #i GUESS. #unfortunately iam cursed with strong opinions on a hastily written antagonist that shows up to be a bitch and Die. #iam cursed for my hubris and my work is never finished. (<- writing essays about kaigakudemonslayer)

[aroaessidhe]

2023 reads // twitter thread

We’ll Never Tell

YA thriller

a group of teens with a successful anonymous youtube channel where they explore abandoned buildings take on one more before they leave for uni - a hollywood mansion that was the site of a infamous murder

but something goes wrong, and in the aftermath they have to figure out what happened without being caught and charged with more than just breaking and entering

sapphic & achillean

#We’ll Never Tell #Wendy Heard #aroaessidhe 2023 reads #oh I really enjoyed this!! very good! #I went into it semi blind (other than seeing the author talk about it ages ago) so i wasn’t sure exactly what to expect #i thought the exploration of the MCs trauma was done well & her thoughts on true crime #I did guess who x was a descendant of immediately. haha. but not everything else or how that would be relevant #also her mentioning keeping all her research and lists on notion hahahaha me too bitch #not 100% sure how i feel about the end/antagonist etc. but I didn't guess it lmao #it also had me convinced at some points that it was paranormal and at some points that it was just real people up until the end haha

[moonybadger]

I probably enjoy the Doctor Elise anime more than it really deserves, but I do find it incredibly funny that the main antagonist is just the kind king who wants Elise to be the empress because she'd clearly do a great job when she just wants to go off and be the best surgeon in the world

#I though they were building up Mil to be more of an antagonist but he's gone surprisingly sympathetic in the most recent episode #doctor elise #I keep wanting to not like it and it keeps being just charming enough #and I like all the doctor stuff #it does still feel like a less good 7th Time Loop but I guess that's what comes of all these isekais #which Time Loop isn't really but it is in spirit #bored badgering