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welcometogrouchland · 1 year

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sorry if I'm bothering you but I FINALLY FIND SOMEONE ELSE WHO PREFERS FTF BUT PURELY BECAUSE OF OUR LOVE FOR WILLOW (we're the only ones right about her) like yeah, it's DEFINITELY not a perfect episode but IT'S ABOUT THE CHARACTERS. and I LOVE TTT TOO BECAUSE OF LUZ but tbh I didn't like being in the fandom when TTT came out because THERE WAS SO MUCH STUFF ABOUT HUNTER, TO THE POINT WHERE PEOPLE THOUGHT HE SHOULD BE THE MC AND NOT LUZ??? I love my boy but I felt overwhelmed at all of this so him not getting too much in FTF was fine for me :)

Firstly, I'd like to say YES!! FOR THE FUTURE SOLOS!!! LITERALLY SOME OF THE BEST CHARACTER WORK, ART DIRECTION, SOUNDTRACK, BOARDING, HUMOUR AND HORROR IN THE WHOLE SHOW!!!

Secondly I'd like to say that this is SUCH a can of worms that I've held back on talking about for A While™. Tbh it kinda feels like u read my mind I was literally thinking about this this morning.

(BIG ASS RAMBLE UNDER THE CUT. I AM NOT JOKING THIS POST IS SO LONG IT'S NOT EVEN FUNNY)

Both episodes are really fucking good, both on their own merit and when you take into account the circumstances under which they were made. I do not want to labour this point. I hate pitting two bad bitches against each other.

I AM however interested in investigating why, when two episodes are of similar quality, but with different priorities and focuses and (for lack of a better word) Vibe™ does the fandom demonstrably prefer one over the other?

Thanks to Them is BIG on plot. It's big on "establish what the kids have been doing, introduce Lore and Mystery, do the possession, fight the bad guy, get back to the demon realm, bada bing bada boom!!". I don't think it's nearly as relentlessly paced as some people think, and I think there are definitely emotional moments to be gleaned out of characters who AREN'T Luz, Hunter or Camilla- but overall it's similar to the most plot focused episodes of season 2. Your knock knock knocking on hootys doors and your hollow minds.

But for the future is a lot more concerned with character. Everyone gets some small moment to shine, though you're correct in saying that the focus is mostly on Luz, Willow and then probably the collector. But Camilla, Gus, Amity, Hunter, King, Eda and Lilith all get more emotional depth in a few lines than like. Willow did in half of thanks to them. even Belos gets more screentime this ep than he did in thanks to them, screentime that's much more illuminating (do love the moments he had in thanks to them but they weren't huge character moments really, just him villain-ing it up).

Less plot stuff happens, if you count the main goal as "get into the titans skull" then that's only introduced about a quarter of the way through the episode, whereas "get back to the human realm" is established as the goal of thanks to them in like. Negative screentime lmao. You basically know it's the goal coming in because you've watched king's tide already. For the future isn't like this!

And I GET IT MAN! checking in on the YouTube progress bar at the 3/4 of the way through elicited pure fear in me! But I feel like the fandoms fear of plots going unresolved and questions going unanswered has created this. Like. Attitude that the episodes need to be completely spartan or they're wasting time.

Like, with bringing back Boscha and Kikimora. Some people consider that a waste of time because they weren't Big Bads in seasons prior, meaning they should be low priority and don't belong here. And ppl are entitled to feel that way!

But I don't think you can call them wasted! Or irrelevant! I think the writers put a lot of work into making their storyline fit with the themes of the show! I have an essay I may never finish in drafts about this but- one of the most popular aspects of seasons 1 and 2 was the whole corrupt government storyline, which reached it's climax in king's tide but still had no resolution, same way hexside had no resolution from what happened after labyrinth runners. The writers combined these storylines by showing how hexside wasn't going to become a mini dictatorship like the isles old system (hence the title of the episode, changing things for the better "for the future"). That's efficient storytelling! Combining two plots into one in order to resolve both at the same time!

But people don't take this as an example of efficiency because it's not Lore or Plot based. And I think that's a real shame.

Both episodes have pacing and balance issues but I don't think one is especially egregious compared to the other? Nor do they have more pacing and balance issues than say, Clouds on the Horizon, which I'd say is one of MY least favouritely paced episodes of the show. Maybe thanks to them just had more novelty factor because of the setting (not to mention it probably benefitted from having one less subplot to juggle, but eh)

And about the fandom response after each episode....yeah. yeah.

I love Hunter. He's my baby. My scrimblo bimblo. He is like my twin brother. Literally. For reasons I cannot begin to explain here, hunter the owl house is like my twin brother.

And in all fairness to the fandom, plenty of people are normal about him. I know this because I've curated my experience to entirely be the people who are normal about him.

But the people who are not normal about him...my god.

Tbh I think this issue of focus actually lands on why I prefer for the future to thanks to them (THOUGH AGAIN. THEY BOTH SLAY)

The ending of thanks to them was so abrupt and emotionally charged that it felt like a betrayal, almost. The show went so hard and so fast that afterwards there was no breathing room and I didn't fully trust the show to be able to pull back afterwards. I thought either Hunter is going to eat up more and more screentime next episode by having to deal with the implications of every that happened five minutes from the episodes end, or they are literally never going to touch on him again. The ending of thanks to them was SO MUCH in so little time that I literally could not fathom a middle road.

Whereas the ending of for the future was a lot more. Aha, eureka! Moment to me. Like "OHH so that's what we're dealing with next episode!!! Nice". There was excitement and yeah, fear that things wouldn't land, but overall there was more trust in me. And of course, they did find a lovely medium between it being the Hunter show and addressing his trauma adequately. His arc was very emotional and satisfying this ep, without the borderline hard-to-enjoy turmoil that the ending of thanks to them put me through lol.

But I think, to some people, the sheer angst of thanks to thems ending was more emotionally rewarding than the well paced stability and slight ominousness of for the future. They felt that episodes end was too "mid". Too soft. The end of the show needs to go all out all the time, so this episode that focused more on emotional arcs and early season callbacks and payoffs is weak.

And to be honest, maybe my analysis here isn't as in-depth or as in-touch with fandom complaints as it could be! I've generally avoided the people harshly criticizing for the future because I like it when fandom is fun. I don't like watching one of my favorite episodes to date get dunked on. But that in and of itself (combined with the leak situation) has led to an inability to really Go All Out with fandom engagement rn. It's a struggle!

I've seen people describe for the future as en episode where Everything happened, and yet nothing happened. I get why! I personally prefer it to thanks to them because I feel like too much happened during that episodes climax to the point where it didn't even feel like the episode had true resolution.

But also, I get that for a lot of people, it's not even about construction. It's just about expectation and preference. People weren't expecting hexside, and when they got it, they got upset. People weren't expecting Willow, and when they got it, they didn't like it. And I get that. Really I do.

But this show is so fuckin wild. It does so much and throws so many curve balls at you. Never the big twists either, always the shit u don't expect. And it's great. I've honestly grown really fond of the way this show pokes me in the ass with something I didn't really expect or consider.

Not everybody is though and like. That's fine. But I do wish sometimes people would just. Kinda. Let it go when something goes in a direction they didn't expect. Because I didn't expect the direction FTF went in at all and I loved it once I stopped to think about it. But that's just me.

I think this is only like. 25% a direct response to things you said in the ask, so to conclude by answering/engaging with your ask point by point:

Willow stans and For the Future stans unite. This is our nation. Also shout-out to the fellow willow understanders I am mutuals with/follow you guys were really keeping us going in the pre for the future times

It's not a perfect episode but circumstances considering, it never could've been, and I'm okay with most of the ways it falls short. I'm also fully willing to hold out and see whether or not watching and dreaming rectifies any of my complaints, considering several of the issues I took with thanks to them were solved this ep, lol

Luz and Camilla literally stole the show in thanks to them and while I understand that the ending of that ep was very hunter centric, hence the hunter centric fandom atmosphere afterwards, I do prefer the environment in fandom rn that's appreciating this mother daughter duo rn

Hunter is not a main character imo. Not because he couldn't be but because his story is rendered infinitely more interesting when he is a supporting character. It's one thing to tell us that Hunter lives for other people and is made to forever be a second- best underling. It's another thing to show us this with his narrative role as the ultimate foil. He Is Better Off This Way. Also this point is dumb but I fully believe Hunter would be miserable as a main character. He does not want this

Also Luz is genuinely one of my favorite main characters in television. Maybe ever. If I start talking about her we'll be here all day. Just look at literally anything sepublic has written about her it's all on point

For the future had the perfect amount of Hunter content tbh. No episode should have more or less. I'm banging my gavel like a judge decreeing this to be so

#ramblings of a lunatic #asks #toh #that is literally the only thing i will tag this with it's a barely coherent nightmare behemoth and i do not need it in tags #anyway. I'm still holding out that these specials are gonna fundamentally work better together than as separate eps #i got the feeling when thanks to theme ending was off and i felt the same when the subplots of ftf went unresolved #it's not for now. each episode is just about cleaning up problems from the previous ep and exploring how its impacted our guys-#-before establishing a new short term goal and then achieving it via emotional trials and tribulations #it makes the months between eps agonizing but also. I would not be able to handle these guys being just s few weeks apart #it simply would not have computed in my brain #ANYWAY. here's a whole lotta nothing! hope any of it's understandable #no art tonight but i am gonna chip away at the darius/camila ask #that one should be close to wrapping up we're like..a bit more than halfway through it #hope it's more understandable than whatever i went off on here!

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jq37 · 5 years

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The Report Card – Fantasy High Sophomore Year Ep 2

Boggy the Froggy!

Welcome back, ya’ll! We jump back in with our Bad Kids (or 4/6 of them anyway) the very next day. Fabian sends Gilear out on a coffee run on the threat of bodily harm. His mom–who, if you remember is low-key a total badass–tells Fabian that if Gilear doesn’t come back from the quest alive, she’s going to duel him to the death on top of the house. Yikes. At Chez Thistlespring, Gorgug’s parents give him another very detailed sex talk and then remind him that he lives in a world where magic is very real so any and all dreams he remembers should be treated as omens.

At the haunted house, Adaine wakes up having had portentous dreams like everyone else which is doubly concerning I have to imagine considering (1) she is the eleven oracle and (2) as a full elf she’s supposed to trance, not sleep and dream. Luckily for her nerves, she cast Find Familiar the night before and summoned an emotional support familiar which she gave the amazing name Bogariel Frogariel aka: Boggy the Froggy.

Meanwhile (and I needed to switch paragraphs because Kristen is doing the D&D equivalent of playing Twister while everyone else is playing Checkers as she is wont to do) Kristen is talking to Tracker about changing Yes? again because she is filled with doubt about her god of doubt but the one thing she clearly doesn’t have doubt about is her relationship with Tracker because it’s been less than a year and she already sees wedding bells in their future. Wild. She also invites Tracker on the quest, rectifying what I thought was a wild oversight last week.

Everyone meets up and they realize Fig and Riz are missing. They (specifically Fabian) can’t get Riz on the phone (which has never happened before) and all of Fig’s stuff is missing. They head over to Riz’s office to see if they can find him but, before that, Tracker cancels the church of Yes? because, sure.

There are signs of a struggle at Riz’s office, but no blood. They find a picture of Riz’s super-spy dad (Pok) with his arm around someone who appears invisible to them (though the spot is circled in red). They also find claw marks going up to a mirror. Adaine stops Gorgug from touching the mirror which would have driven him insane and had him attack the group. She sees a twisted version of Riz in the mirror which no one else can see until she describes it (suspicious). Then, she dispels magic and the Riz appears in the room…and attacks them (roll for initiative baybee)!

Fabian is flipped the F out. Kristen decides to chill out and drink Riz’s coffee–much to the incredulousness of everyone else (she’s on those chill existential dread vibes). Adaine and Gorgug are stricken by fear but they’re able to snap out of it quickly. Once they’re sure it’s not Riz (the doppelganger is going full creepy horror movie monster with the head twisting and biting and junk), they start going full throttle but Kristen gets a clutch roll and lands a banishment on Nightmare Riz (who was invisible at the time). Also, Adaine finds a gun but no one is down with her packing heat without proper firearms training so she reluctantly puts it back. They confer with Sandra-Lynn and they find out Fig has, for some reason, gone to Bastion City (the capital) and Gorthalax is missing. Also, because Emily is Emily whether she’s present or not, they find out that Fig has decided to multiclass and she is now a bard/warlock with her demon dad as her patron. Those might be connected because, as her patron, Gorthalax can now find Fig at all times.

Sklonda, in the meantime, has been investigating a robbery at the mall. They end up there too because Gilear (who is back from his coffee run) said he saw Fig’s bus in the area. They tell Ragh to meet them there and then head over (Gorgug in the old family car which he buys from them for 30 gold (the cost of a pony)–the amount Adaine suggests after the Thistlesprings reject his insane offer of 1000 gold). Also, Kristen leaves her brothers some gold secretly which is sad and also I think not the best way to handle that, but the intention is good. The robbery was of a gem–non-magical I believe–called the Devil’s Heart. [Edit: And apparently Fig’s doing.] Fabian shows up, tries to be helpful, and then eats glass. Normal stuff.

The group tries to figure out what’s going on with Fig by calling the hotel she’s at and basically doing a straight improv comedy routine, each passing the phone around with a bad story until Adaine just hangs the phone up. Then, they find out from Sklonda that Pok’s partner is a tabaxi (cat person) named Kalina and she is in the empty space in the photo. Sklonda and Sandra-Lynn can see it even though the Bad Kids can’t.

With that information gathered, the group leaves Elmville for the first time on the way to the Hotel Cavalier in Bastion City and, hopefully, Fig.

Detention

Fabian for Intern Abuse

Poor Gilear. Fabian solicits increasingly complicated coffee orders from his friends to make Gilear’s job harder and tries to get them to threaten Gilear on their behalf. Even Sandra-Lynn was like, bro. Lay off the guy. Bad form, sir. (Hilarious, but bad).

Honor Roll

Adaine for Rocking Her Portent Rolls

Adaine had a 19 and a 4 for her portent rolls this session and she used them very judiciously. The first was her 19 which she gave to Gorgug who was about to fail his saving throw and touch the mirror which would have led to him attacking everyone (she has a vision of his beheading her in a rage–sidenote love that Brennan makes her portent rolls actual visions instead of just having the mechanical effect of changing the roll happen). The second was a 4 which she gave to Brennan who was rolling for concentration on Nightmare Riz’s fear spell. What a power move to stare your DM in the face and say, “You roll a 4.” Amazing. Portent rolls are so good you guys. Also, bonus points for coming up with the name Bogariel Frogariel.

Random Thoughts

Fabian’s response to his mom’s ultimatum that she will fight him if Gilear doesn’t return alive? “Damn, guess I have to fight my mom.”

“MAGIC IS REAL AND SO IS MY FROG.”

Brennan describes Boggy as just the most archetypal looking, round, squishy frog and I want a plush of his yesterday. Or a stress ball! It would go with his whole emotional support thing in game. I love that Siobhan picked not the potentially “useful” or “cool” animal. She went full Marie Kondo and was like, “What’s gonna spark some joy?” Boggy also can give her the help action, which is great!

The episode was great even 2 cast members down, but they were missed. On more than one occasion, I was like, “This is more quiet than usual. I wonder why–ah Emily.” We better get her reaction to Boggy as soon as she’s back.

Kristen brings up the concept of patenting a god which is wild. We also get an answer to the question I had last week about Tracker’s cleric status–she still is a cleric of the moon goddess. The moon goddess is just chill with her followers not being exclusive.

Fabian sans Riz is a hilarious mess. For anyone who likes them together as friends and/or romantically there was a lot of Content. Fabian being like, “Idk about Fig but something is def wrong with the Ball because he always answers on the first ring when I call him.” Him canonically forgetting that he has a name other than The Ball (that’s the name in his phone, obv). And, the coup de grace, him investigating RIz’s office, but only for signs of his name. Him trying to Investigate like Riz, rolling a nat 1, and literally eating glass (“I thought I could taste fingerprints!”).

“Coffee’s ordered, is the Ball dead?”

Adaine as everyone is clowning on Fabian for possibly making out with the Hangman: The Hangman is much more human than my bitch sister.

Nightmare Riz, who they still think is actual Riz at this point, pops out of the mirror and Fabian and Adaine’s reactions respectively are, “You can’t do these things!” and, “It’s like 60% of our grade.”

The idea of Gorgug going from a terrified scream into a barbarian rage scream is very funny. Where are the animatics people?

Oh, speaking of people, Fantasy High was trending on tumblr the morning after this stream. Nice job, guys!

The talk that Gorgug’s parents give him about all dreams being significant is something I always say in movies/books/shows like this. You have protagonists who *know* they live in a magic world and they have weird dreams and it’s not until 2/3rds of the way into the story that they’re like, “Wait. My dreams…mean something?” Bitch, what?

Gorgug’s initial coffee order is Hot Chocolate with a shot of decaf.

Everyone is very chill with Tracker coming onto the quest. Adaine just has one rule: No sex in the tent while they’re also in the tent. Kristen asks like she’s offended Adaine would feel the need to say that but like…come on.

At first, I thought the invisibility in the photo was similar to the non-Adaine bad kids not being able to see Nightmare Riz until she described him but they still couldn’t see the woman in the photo after Sklonda described her so not sure what was going on with the mirror.

I went back to the episode where Riz finds the photo of his dad (First Kisses and Last Words at around 1 hour, 27 mins in) and in that photo it’s of his dad and his mom. So either (1) it’s a different photo, (2) Brennan forgot/retconned something, or (3) something seriously screwy is going on. I will also note two observations here. Sklonda mentioned that Kalina doesn’t drink but was holding up her hand in a toast like she was drinking in the photo. That seems too specific a detail to not mean anything. And the second thing is, last ep, we did learn about a servant of the Nightmare King called the Shadow Cat and Kalina (if that is her real name) is a tabaxi so that’s something to think about.

With all the complicated coffee orders flying around, Adaine just changes hers to a black coffee to try and make Gilear’s life a little easier (her original order was a Peppermint Mocha–sans the threat of violence to Gilear Fabian was offering). I do really love that Adaine seems genuinely concerned about the guy. SOMEONE should be. And it’s consistent with her characterization of just being generally well mannered and empathetic.

Kristen getting the banishment on Nightmare Riz is something she did after Ally asked for it and Brennan was like, “lol, sure on a 19 or 20.” Boom. Rolled a 19. Just like in the prom fight. So the lesson here folks is don’t give your players a conditional yes and then expect the dice to bail you out.

Kristen’s existential crisis is so crazy to me because she’s having, like, a prototypical Crisis of Faith™ (and pretty realistically) except, unlike in real life, she has certain knowledge about the existence of gods, life after death, and the means to communicate with those deities in the present day like…I feel like you’re crisis-ing wrong, girl. She’s crisis-ing like she just deconverted from Christianity when I feel like what actually happened is closer to, like, quitting a sorority or realizing you hate your major or changing political parties.

the nature of humanity is just that every so often someone accidentally invents homestuck helioism again

Ragh had a dream matching up with Gorgug’s (but he didn’t realize it was Gorgug in his dream) which means something and I’m sure we’ll figure out what soon enough.

The Fabian eating glass scene is another one where you truly need to see it to understand how great it is. Lou is equally game to have Fabian be the coolest person who ever lived or a huge baby and Fabian running away crying because he has glass shards in his tongue is incredible. Hilariously, he runs into Ragh in the food court who has also eaten glass in the past (“Glass is literally invisible.”) and they bro bond over it so hard (“That’s my boy!”) that Tracker and Kristen are like…are they a thing?

The other crazy scene is the gang passing around the phone trying to convince the hotel receptionist to give them info about Fig. Kristen comes up with the name Teddy Guyger (and Zac and I at the same time are like, “Did you get the name Teddy because you have a teddy bear in your inventory rn?”). Fabian tries to drop his dad’s name. Their first move for some reason isn’t to give the phone to Gorgug who is also a part of the band. Adaine just hangs up the phone like Peppa Pig. Exquisite comic timing.

“I cast bane on Gilear.”

I love the running joke of Adaine having visions throughout the day of her friends in the process of doing dumb BS.

Nightmare Riz going after Fabian’s good eye was big gross. Thanks Brennan, I hate it.

I wonder if what’s going on with Fig is completely different than what’s going on with Riz. Just because they’re gone for the same reason irl, doesn’t mean they’re gone for the same reason in game. Nightmare Fig could be a fun fight though.

As someone whose fave thing in D&D is not combat, I thought the fight in this episode was great. Interesting concept, good chance for in-character reactions, not too long .

Ragh upon meeting Tracker: Check it out: I’m gay. (Tracker: Tight.)

Fabian, who has known Cathilda his entire life: Do maids dream?

In this ep, Kristen and Adaine rolled 2 nat 20s each (Kristen rolled one for initiative also but it was lowered by her modifier), and Gorgug and Fabian each rolled 1. Fabian also rolled a nat 1 (which, again, led to him Eating Glass).

#fantasy high #fantasy high spoilers #dimension 20 #dimension 20 spoilers #report card #the report card

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