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#obsessed with Caroline and Kendall's relationship
waystarresourceco · 7 months
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Harriet Walter on Caroline’s relationship with Kendall and in particular some of the past dynamics that are driving her conversation (or lack thereof) with Kendall in Season 2.
“Kendall’s quite a sort of complicated guy. There was a scene that didn’t get into the final cut in Season 1 where we had a little duo scene where it’s very evident that Kendall has a lot of anger towards his mother. And sort of as the oldest son blames her for a lot of – you know maybe he got the brunt of the divorce because he was the most aware of what was going on. . . . Here’s this guy who has been pretty angry with me in the past. And I think she says something like ‘Have you got over your – is it something you're gonna blame me for again?’ So that’s what she immediately assumes when he says ‘Can we talk?’ she thinks she’s gonna be in for a bit of blame and a bit of reckoning that she can’t quite face.”
The deleted Season 1 scene she references is included below the cut.
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Harriet Walter has mentioned a few times that she thinks Caroline was "kicked out" of the family, probably for having an affair and getting caught. I can definitely see Kendall knowing more of the details than Shiv and Roman both by virtue of age and his relationship with Logan (and being pulled pretty hard into Logan's point of view).
Video excerpt from 2020 GoldDerby interview (x)
Script excerpt from a deleted scene in "Pre-Nuptial" in Succession - Season One: The Complete Scripts
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wellthatwasaletdown · 9 months
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“Who did he need to convince? The general public wasn't walking around thinking it was a giant conspiracy”. -  I think you hit the crux of the issue right here.
Harry fans who are active participants in fandom forget that they, not the GP, are the outliers.
Whilst fandom obsesses over conspiracy and conjecture, and align themselves into competing factions with a ‘ride or die’ approach to their ‘truths’, the GP don’t give a shiny shit about their dramas, don’t even see it. "Oppressed, cup-cake, queer Harry' exists only in a tiny fan enclave hidden away in a specific part of fandom social media.
The GP see him linked to and with countless and successive Victoria Secret models. They remember (because they are reminded in every press article) that he is an ex of Taylor Swift, they’ve seen him with Caroline, Paige, Kendall, Tess, Camille et al, kissing Emrata, not to mention the countless media copy and photos of Olivia over the past couple of years.
Harry and Olivia dated and were in a relationship for over 2 years. When he is spotted with an Olivia tattoo they will naturally assume it's for her. If he has new songs with reasonable links or nods to her- eg her name, occupation, physique etc - of course they will assume they are about her. Nobody, except a certain subset of fans, is looking for a conspiracy or a way to 'debunk' this stuff. It's ludicrous to think otherwise.
His public image is that of a louche, super hetro womaniser. And there are two reasons for that - 1. That is exactly what he is.  2. That is what he and his PR team are happy to have presented, indeed facilitate in media coverage, because it serves him overall.
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fandomestloser · 11 months
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hullo
i'm akeyla, a pansexual nonbinary (they/them) with a constant feeling of social injustice and a slight addiction to ao3
doesanyonehearrunningwotah is my ao3, on which i'm chronically online
i'm a teenager so please behave yourselves fgs
will be reblogging anything that satisfies my 1d obsession adoration and posting excerpts/updates on my fanfictions so
my pinterest is @akeylaaaaa
ISTP-T
Australian Central (GMT+10:30)
masterlists below the cut :)
---
fandoms
one direction/solo
hamilton
rwrb
noah kahan
marauders (not hp. m a r a u d e r s.)
sabrina carpenter
conan gray
olivia rodrigo
5sos
billie eilish + finneas
taylor swift
ed sheeran
we three
morgan wallen
kelsea ballerini
doctor who
---
tags:
#alex my love❤ - all conversations with or about my brilliant partner #bloggy stuff - blog stuff #rebloggy stuff - reblog stuff #ask answered - asks #masterpost - this post, and all ficfest, challenge, etc. masterposts #personal - personal stuff
all other tags are a given (taylor swift, one direction) and used erratically and unusually, so.
---
masterposts:
2023/24 writing schedule
Whumptober Masterpost
Whumpuary Masterpost
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complete original pieces:
none yet. watch this space.
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original WIPs:
letters from my bedroom floor (ongoing poetry compilation)
more soon. watch this space.
--- complete fanfictions:
underneath the mistletoe (larry stylinson christmas au)
tear away my tattoos (larry stylinson break-up au)
just for a moment (larry stylinson break-up au)
grey hairs (larry stylinson old age au)
greatest fear (larry stylinson 1D reunion au)
hold on (larry stylinson multichap mental health au)
orange juice (larry stylinson multichap break-up au)
gone (louis centric multichap zayn's death au)
whumptober 2023 collection- masterpost here.
--- fanfiction WIPs/upcoming
WRITING SCHEDULE 2023/24
caffeine factor (ziam mayne, hurt-but-mostly-comfort coffee shop au) (multichap, some chapters published)
words hurt (larry stylinson hurt-comfort high school au) (multichap, upcoming)
it’s time to go (larry stylinson, hurt-with-a-little-comfort au) (multichap, upcoming) (will rename)
haven't you ever been in love before (larry stylinson hurt-comfort uni au) (multichap, upcoming)
meet you in the future (larry stylinson fantasy/sci-fi au) (multichap, upcoming)
eccedentesiast (larry stylinson hurt-comfort au) (one-shot, upcoming)
if we never met (larry stylinson fight au) (one shot, upcoming)
come back (larry stylinson multichap mental health au) (sequel to hold on) (upcoming)
grief unites (larry stylinson hurt-comfort au) (multichap, upcoming) (probably will rename)
dream (larry stylinson solo louis angsty au) (multichap, upcoming) (will rename)
love is an open door (larry stylinson-family fluff) (one shot, upcoming)
2011 (larry stylinson hurt-comfort au) (one shot, upcoming)
---
writing request masterlist
i write mostly romance, heavy on the angst, but i'm pretty open to anything, just read through this first <3
i won't write non-con, it's just a huge no. i won't write romanticized abuse, incest or p3d0ph1lia either - including teacher-student relationships, step siblings, or those weird fics where the twins are in a poly relationship with a third party?? like no you sick fcks oml. or those overromanticised fics where they have feelings for each other as kids??? nopity nope. children. don't. have. romantic. relationships. i shouldn't even have to say it. anything below secondary is just no.
i don't write omegaverse, you do you but it's a no from me. i don't write y/n or x reader fics, just not my vibe.
oh i also don't write fanfictions where the larry stunts (danielle, eleanor, taylor, caroline, kendall, whoever it may be) are like, villains? no thank you.
(also side note caroline flack didn't do anything illegal or wrong, even if you think it's kinda gross. the age of consent in both the UK and most of the US is 16 therefore harry was legally able to consent and she was not responsible for anything you frown upon in that whole situation.)
--- asks
ask whatever, just be respectful. or don't. anon hate is fun to debate tbh.
---
as for this entire thing; i may have copied it from my brilliant partner and my writing inspiration - @youreverydaydemikid
speaking of which, if you see the tag "alex my love❤" that means its me talking to or about said partner!!
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pynkhues · 1 year
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same anon who sent in that mini fic prompt with the Roy kids!! I’m sooo happy with the 5k response hahaha, and I LOVE that you explored Connor and Caroline’s relationship. It’s interesting because i remember even early on at the hospital he defended her (“your mother’s a maniac, she’s not a monster”). and also with Marianne!! So interesting! and I love, love Connor + baby golden trio. My heart bursts with joy thinking of Connor as their safe place and them protecting him, in their own way, with the cake 🥹 they love him but it’s complicated. And i am reminded of Alan Ruck saying Connor “needs them all like crazy”, I think you reflect that so well!! <3 thank you so much for writing it!
(x)
You're so welcome, anon, and thank you so much for the lovely message! I am so intrigued by Connor's life with the broader family before the Golden Trio were old enough to really become the Golden Trio, and especially his dynamic with Caroline and Marianne. It seems like Marianne's an only child, and depending on when you think Ewan and Logan had their falling out / when Ewan started to disentangle himself from the company, I can see Connor and Marianne having much more of a relationship as cousins than Marianne has with Kendall, Roman and Shiv (although I'm sure that's an age thing too).
And yes! Connor and Caroline's dynamic is one that I'm lowkey obsessed with, and having the chance to write about it was such a treat (so thank you for giving me the opportunity, haha). I do think they have a degree of understanding with one another, especially as like you said, he has defended her in the past, she invited him to her second wedding, and Connor really knew about the Collingwood family drama and sided with her in it in the episode with Shiv's wedding rehearsal. I kind of like this idea that they maybe didn't like each other during Logan's courtship of Caroline, but as Caroline became Logan's neglected wife, she might have bonded a little with his neglected son, who doesn't carry any of the baggage of - - y'know, being hers, so she can't be blamed for any of his imperfections of eccentricities.
I just think there's something really interesting there.
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talkingharrystyles · 1 year
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ok but she’s romatincally connected to harry real or not, the fans are not
But that's it nonnie. She behaves like a fan not his girlfriend. Did you ever see his previous girlfriends (stunt or not) wear his or his friends merch? Because I don't recall ever seeing them dress in his merch from head to toe everytime they step outside to prove they're dating him. Cockburn behaves like a fan so there is nothing special about her and she doesn't do anything different to what fans do that you would think she's in a relationship with Harry. Wearing his merch, going to almost every single one of his shows are the behaviours of his fans. This is expected from his fans because obviously for a lot of them it's like a once in a lifetime opportunity while she doesn't need to worry about that since she can easily see him anytime she wants you know seeing as she's his "girlfriend" can't she? But not even they do that. If you wanted to flex your "relationship" with Harry why would you act the same way his fans act? Why would you want to behave like an obsessed fangirl rather than his girlfriend? She's meant to be his girlfriend but she just looks like a stalker. At least with Camille we can say she had her own sense of style and wasn't constantly wearing his merch. We can say that about Kendall too. And Taylor. And Caroline. But can we say the same for her? Either she's always wearing his merch or clothes that can be linked to him (wearing the same trainers or hat etc) OR she's copying his exes style.
SAT IT LOUDER!!!!!!!
Also if this was real, why is trying so hard to prove it? Wearing his merch just makes her look pathetic!
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transmutationisms · 2 years
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your theory about hippocrate's 4 humours being shown throughout succession is so interesting!!! do you think the 4 roy siblings fit the personality types? like i would think kendall is melancholic, connor is phlegmatic, roman is choleric and shiv is sanguine.
i also think the way its shown throughout the show (the use of elements, like kendall crying in the dirt, ALL THE PISS MOTIFS, etc) is incredibly interesting and i was wondering if you have further thoughts on it
anon after my own heart. sticking this under a readmore to spare the dash.
so first of all, In My Head connor and roman are actually flipped from what you said. connor i think is much more volatile than his sibs give him credit for ("i'm gonna go apeshit") and roman is ultimately more passive than active, though he does posture as a choleric. plus i think logan's phlegmatic (though he was choleric in his youth) and i see roman as a failson version of him in certain ways.
i did actually make a silly chart of this here but i could be argued with about almost any of these placements. i will stand by my assertion that the roys are all very unbalanced though. like they'll careen from extreme to extreme, very diseased in a classical sense. you gotta have all four humours mixed in there properly.
in terms of further thoughts. yes. so i have two favourite events to constantly obsess about from this show and one of them is kendall shitting the bed. just to recap, we have a character who's been deeply melancholic (in both a classical and more modern sense) for the first half of the season, who meets someone new over a bowl of soup (which in renaissance theory could treat melancholia), bonds with her, and then shits himself: literally a purgation of black bile.
the next episode is argestes where kendall finds a new purpose to hitch his wagon to: the cruises scandal, which he seizes on as a moral crusade (i'm not arbitrating the sincerity of his beliefs here—that's complicated). then the episode after that is when we really start to see him trying to grapple with the death of the waiter (attempts to confess to caroline) and enjoying his relationship with naomi. and by the episode after THAT, we get the jennifer thing and yadda yadda. tern haven is a turning point for kendall, and i do think shitting himself is the bodily manifestation/representation of that
so, in general, i do see succession's use of bodily fluids/humours as being more or less in line with medieval/classical medicine in that it usually signifies some kind of catharsis or release. this does depend on the character's circumstances though. like obviously if you're already lacking in phlegm, then losing more of it is not going to be good for you, it's just going to be draining. but usually these characters' problem is their excessive temperament, rather than lack thereof.
piss motif. yes i do have so many thoughts about this. logan is the only character who's really allowed to be, like, expressive of his emotions and have actual outbursts and so forth... not coincidental that he's also the pisser. plus, the sheer number of bathroom scenes, and the bathroom as a site of secret negotiations and intimate conversations and so forth. gotta get those humours flowing in order to find any kind of emotional release.
but there's always danger here too: logan pisses as a power move in 'sad sack wasp trap', but by 'retired janitors of idaho' he's lost the plot and goes piss-mad. the body in this show is so often constructed as a kind of external threat to rationality. it's the ugly human thing that the roys are so desperately trying to repress and control, and they just can't, and everyone knows they're disgusting for it. see also: greg yerfing out of doderick's eyeholes, logan yerfing at argestes. an explosion of yellow bile.
in terms of the elemental symbolism, empedocles is usually the one mostly credited with linking humours and elements, rather than hippocrates/galen. but i think that succession's humourism comes thru the influence of renaissance drama (particularly shakespeare) and by that point there often was an association between the two, so yeah i do very much see these things as being related. for empedocles, sanguine goes with air, phlegmatic with water, melancholic with earth, and choleric with fire.
so like, let's go back to kendall because he's very Body. kendall crying in the dirt... that's a melancholia moment (again, in both a classical and more modern sense). it's only after his siblings finally hear his confession that he's able to get up out of the dirt, and again, it's an emotional turning point for him represented physically. i also love that he's the one with the water motif: water is both freeing and distressing for him, in part because i think he does see it as being alien in some sense. like, his passive suicide attempt in the pool: water as literally a gateway to the great beyond, or whatever. the ultimate release/purgation/rebalancing. a foreign element for someone generally so melancholic.
also i've mentioned this especially in the context of 'this is not for tears,' but: this show frequently plays with sunlight (fire) not as enlightenment or purity or transcendence, but as overexposure or rage or danger. think of logan almost being killed by the sun in 'lion in the meadow' (because he needed water... lol). the shot of the sun backlighting the chapel at austerlitz, the roys minimised into the bottom of the frame. the dazzling blinding light in the s2 and s3 finales. sunlight on the rooftop at the end of 'shit show at the fuck factory' as kendall finds out the company's fucked. (&, related, it's raining when stewy offers to buy him out the first time...)
literally i Have to stop because i would be more than happy to turn this into an entire dissertation. like if i were in media studies or whatever. i would do that. but instead of subjecting you to that, i'll just stick this post into my humours tag where i rambled some more about things and also my bathrooms tag because there's overlap here lmao
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romanticerawitch4 · 2 years
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obsessed with that Harriet Walter interview where she talks about a deleted scene where Kendall's therapist told him to forgive her, and she runs off every time she's alone with him because she thinks she's just going to get psychobabble on how she abused him
I’m fascinated with Caroline’s relationship to all her kids but Kendall and hers just feels so painful. Like he calls her Mum and wants her to be there for him and she just cannot muster it up within herself to be an emotionally present parent. It’s interesting because in some ways Caroline and Kendall are a lot alike when she said the “I’ve never won anything in my whole life line” my head immediately was like Oop that’s Kendall. It’s also alluded to a lot that she’s an alcoholic and I can see young Kendall mimicking her behavior and even using it to get closer to her like sharing a cigarette conversation.
I feel like the relationship between Caroline and Kendall has always been particularly strained in a different way from Shiv and Roman because he’s her firstborn. And there’s a kind of tenderness to that but he’s also Logan’s heir so he would be off limits to Caroline and I can see her taking out her bitterness at the situation on Kendall by being more distant and more emotionally manipulative with him from a young age.
And the problem is Kendall is a person who needs love and affection and that would be suffocating to a person like Caroline, especially as he got older and his problems and addictions started presenting themselves more. It’s interesting that Caroline is so removed from Kendall’s addiction within the show particularly when she seems like an addict herself. She’s really the only family member to never bring up Kendall’s addictions and I think it is definitely a way of being like if I don’t acknowledge it I don’t have to be involved with it and I can let others sort it out. Just like she ran away from his confession she has run away from him any time he’s needed her in his life.
I think Caroline sees a little bit of herself in Kendall and that paired with him being Logan’s #1 boy and his emotional needs has made her uncomfortable and a little disgusted with him. With what he needs from her in particular. It’s like one of those toddlers with sticky hands that keeps pawing at your favorite dress and you can’t get them to stop unless you leave the room.
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dovebuffy92 · 2 years
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Spoilers Below
INTRODUCTION
In Succession Season Three Episode Eight,” Chiantishire,” directed by Mark Mylod, Logan Roy (Brian Cox) refuses to let Kendall Roy (Jeremy Strong) out of his grasp.
The Roy clan travels to Tuscany, Italy, for Lady Caroline Collingwood’s (Harriet Walker) wedding to failed businessman Peter Munion (Pip Torrens).
Siobhan “Shiv” Roy’s (Sarah Snook) tumultuous relationship with her mother Caroline inspires her fight for control over Waystar RoyCo. She uses Roman Roy’s (Kieran Culkin) sexual obsession with Gerri Kellman (J. Smith-Cameron) to take them down.
“Chiantishire” ends with what appears with Kendall drowning in the pool. Unfortunately, there are no clips of Kendall in the promo for the season finale leading me to think he died.
KENDALL’S LAST LEG
Kendall is at the end of his rope when he flies to Tuscany for his mother’s wedding. He no longer travels with a whole posse, just his kids and Comfry (Dasha Nekrasova).
His shaven head looks so shocking that Caroline makes a joke about it. Kendall wears casual clothing like jeans and a polo shirt during most of the episode (minus the wedding reception). Everybody else dresses up for the whole weekend. Kendall doesn’t make as many hard-cutting jokes as usual at his sibling’s expense.
During Caroline’s wedding weekend, everything that happens pushes Kendal off the ledge. To begin with, Caroline tells Kendall that he can’t go to all the parties and ceremonies. Logan refuses to be in the same room with as him. Caroline divvies up all the events. Kendall questions why Caroline even has Logan at the wedding since she hates him. She explains that Peter insisted they invite Logan because he wants to use her ex-husband’s British business and government connections.
A podcaster investigates the “Roy family curse,” covering everything from Connor Roy’s (Alan Ruck) mysterious mother to the caterer’s “suicide. “Kendall accidentally killed the caterer when he was high on drugs during Shiv’s wedding.  Kendall is starting to feel like the walls are closing in on him. Caroline pushes Kendall out in the middle of her wedding reception, leaving him feeling raw.
The last straw comes during Logan and Kendall’s dinner detente. Logan’s paranoia leads him to believe that Kendall will poison his dinner. Since Logan will go to great lengths to win a war, he projects all of his misdeeds onto his son.
The CEO tries to use the excuse that he has a limited diet to eat food that he brought with him. But Kendall made sure the menu fits his restricted diet. When Logan uses his grandson Iverson Roy (Quentin Morales) as a food taster, Kendall feels hurt. He would never poison his father. Having a child test for prisons shows Logan’s extreme paranoia and willingness to put his grandson at risk.
Kendall ultimately wants to be bought out of Waystar RoyCo. He doesn’t want to be at war or close to anybody else in the Roy family. Logan refuses because he cares about his son in his twisted way. He likes having all his children close. Logan will never give Kendall any real power in Waystar RoyCo, but he wants to have him around to be the “mail boy.”
Logan feels attacked when Kendall points out how he only won because Waystar RoyCo and the world are corrupt. Kendall bluntly tells his father that he monetized all of “America’s resentments,” creating an evil media empire. However, Kendall takes no responsibility for his part in building a toxic media landscape. Everybody in the Roy family benefits from Logan’s wealth culminated over decades. The last straw for Logan is when Kendall says he is a good guy who doesn’t want to morph into his father.
Logan strikes back. He brings up the fact that Kendall technically killed the caterer. Kendall is not the perfect angel that he pretends to be. Kendall deflates. Logan pushes back on Kendall, calling him wicked. He would be in big trouble if Logan didn’t clean up his messes constantly. Logan leaves the dinner without freeing Kendall from their destructive relationship.
Kendall appears to drown alone on a floatie in the middle of his pool, drinking beer. Logan wins, but at what cost?
MOTHER ISSUES & INSPIRATION
Caroline’s snarky comments lead Shiv to take back control of her life. Shiv meets Caroline in the courtyard of the restaurant hosting her bachelorette party.
Shiv starts the fight by calling Caroline heartless. Caroline “apologizes” for being a bad mother. Shiv points out that she was not a horrible mother, just an absent one. Caroline accuses her daughter of choosing Logan over her. Shiv exclaims that she was just a kid. Caroline accuses Shiv of always knowing how to twist the knife to get what she wants.
Caroline’s hurtful comments go too far in Shiv’s book when she comments she should never have had children. Essentially saying she wishes Shiv was never born. She compliments Shiv for choosing not to have kids.
Shiv bursts into the hotel room she shares with her husband, Tom Wambsgans (Matthew Mcfadyen), full of conversation. After her toxic talk with Caroline, she has decided that she wants to have children. She plans to fight for control over Waystar RoyCo.
In the morning, Shiv backtracks. She wants to freeze her embryos for now. However, she does begin her destruction of Gerri and Roman. Shiv uses the dick pics that Roman sent to Geri, attempting to discredit them.
Last Thoughts
What will the Roy family do if Kendall is dead? Will Shiv end up wearing the crown in the end? Let us know your predictions for Succession Season Three’s finale in the comments below.
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thebachelordiaries · 6 years
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‘Do The Damn Thing:’ Arie’s Season of The Bachelor Ep. 1
I honestly still feel like Arie as The Bachelor is one big joke and during week three Peter is going to show up and be like, “Hey Arie, thanks for filling in, I’ll take it from here.”
I can’t help what my subconscious feels.
I also can’t help but roll my eyes at Arie’s spiel of not finding love since dating Emily Maynard for three-ish months on The Bachelorette five years ago. I get he needs a storyline, but it is incredibly unbelievable. 
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In my humble opinion, this was the most boring premiere of The Bachelor or The Bachelorette in recent history. 
But that doesn’t mean there weren’t some highlights from night one and some women I am already obsessed with. (I currently love both Bekah and Becca K. to the point where I should probably name my first [and only] child— who will obviously be a girl— after them.)
Video Intros
Every season we get to learn about a few of Arie’s women through video intros. Here are the ones that stuck out to me:
Bekah, who is 22 but ABC is withholding her age to be annoying, is a nanny who doesn’t wear a bra and has a pixie cut. She is confidence goals 2018.
Krystal is a fitness coach who has a homeless brother and is getting BY FAR the best edit of the episode. I *kind of* respect her for not having any botox even though I can’t stop staring at her over expressive forehead. She is also arm goals 2018.
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Chelsea is a single mom from Maine. She’s also basically the only person from the Northeast on the show, which annoys me. What Krystal lacks in botox, Chelsea sure as hell makes up for it. Her face is less expressive than Kim Kardashian's. She also has great bone structure, but I’m having a hard time finding her attractive. Not like I’m one to judge since I look like a garden gnome, but still.
Limo Entrances
About nine times out of 10, the first person out the limo goes pretty far. That person this time was Caroline, who was my pick to win the whole thing after initially reading her bio. 
Second out the limo was Chelsea, who was trying way too hard to be mysterious.
The natural beauty Kendall, who is being called a taxidermist even though she just collects taxidermy, was third out the limo.
Weiner, Arkansas native Tia brought a tiny wiener and said “please tell me you don’t have a tiny wiener.” Arie’s response, “I do not have that,” makes me think he, infant, does not have a tiny wiener.
Krystal was given the most dramatic entrance thanks to production. She is obviously being fake AF based on her voice, which means it’s going to be hard for me to like her.
Bekah arrived in a cherry red 1965 Mustang straight out of an ‘80s movie. She’s Molly Ringwald but like, hotter.
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Are Bekah’s boobs real?: An investigation
Highlights
ABC highlighted a bunch of Chelsea’s horrible jokes and her terrible personality. “Let’s just say the hair is down and the boobs are out,” she said, wanting to make a funny metaphor but instead saying a literal statement. I miss villains that were actually funny like Corinne, Chad and Olivia. 
Chelsea also said “That cherry red looks better on your lips, bitch,” referring to Bekah arriving in a cherry red Mustang. First of all, Bekah didn’t have cherry red lipstick on and secondly, she looked hot as hell next to that car, as shown above.
I want to wear Becca K’s dress at my open casket funeral because I love it and I’m not sure what other occasion I could wear it for?
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We have Jenna to thank for making this episode somewhat interesting. She was either drinking a ton of vodka-redbull or somehow smuggled cocaine into the mansion. During her talk with Arie, she was massaging his feet and jumping around. In my opinion, she could have been drunker, but it’s not really her responsibility to carry the entire episode on her back, you know?
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When you’re pretty enough to act crazy on the first date.
Arie told Krystal he wanted to know more about her and she responds with, “I’m a Libra” and just continued to talk in her fake baby voice. Arie is a Virgo, so technically they are a match.
Chelsea, after being the first woman to talk to Arie and somehow say absolutely nothing about herself, decided to interrupt another woman’s conversation with him and say nothing about herself, once again. However, they did kiss. (Should I write a post on how to kiss like Arie? I feel like it would be funny. Okay, fine, I’ll do it.) She later got to speak to him again when she was awarded the First Impression Rose. I feel like Arie didn’t know who to pick and production was like, “Pick Chelsea,” because they knew she would be this season’s villain. Fun fact: Sharlene Joynt once said in her blog that production usually makes villains out of the people who either get the First Impression Rose or the first One-On-One date.
Rose Ceremony
Worth noting: Becca K got the first rose at the rose ceremony, making her an early favorite. When she got out the limo she made Arie go on his knees and say, “Are you ready to do the damn thing?” and it reminded me of Chris’ intro on Desiree’s season. And we all know Chris won Des’ heart.
Five-ish girls (edit: seven) got sent home. I have no idea who they are, but they did take professional photos and start their own podcast and blog together. Just because they didn’t get far on The Bachelor doesn’t mean they can’t fulfill their dreams of becoming social media influencers. I, for one, am inspired. And if they’re annoying enough at the Women Tell All, they could even make an appearance on Bachelor In Paradise. Dream big, early rejects.
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Early Top 5 Favs (in no particular order...)
Becca K.
Bekah
Krystal
Caroline
Tia
Fun fact: Did you know that people who are “thrill seekers” are more likely to be unfaithful in relationships? An example of this could be...hmmm, I don’t know, a race car driver. I learned this little fact from a guest psychologist on Ashley I’s “I Don’t Get It” podcast. And while I love to hate Ashley I., I do actually like her podcast. (Not the one with Ben, Mr. Snoozefest himself, the other one.) 
Anyway, do you think this fact is true? Obviously it doesn’t pertain to all thrill seekers, but I could see Arie fitting into the unfaithful category. He is free to prove me wrong, though.
I would like to give a special shoutout to my friend Erin Mully ake E-Mulch aka Baby Giraffe for live tweeting Episode 1 and 2 of The Bachelor for me while I was out of the country. Without her, I’d have like 30-ish less followers.
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She did THAT. Also, follow me on twitter, @thebachdiaries
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Blog Post 2 
Caroline Pogostin 
The 1975’s song, She’s American, was released in early 2016 first performed live in late 2015 and was most likely written in that same year. The song is about the singers experience living in Los Angeles and his interactions with his American fans while there. The lyrics mostly criticize American culture in subtle ways, especially in regard to the superficially ideals that the American girls that Healey had encounters with promoted. This can be seen in the chorus of the song with the words, “If she says I’ve got to fix my teeth Then she’s so American (She’s American) And if she likes us cause we just don’t eat…She’s American”, these two lines show a lot about what Healey took away from “American” girls and what represent to him. 
This idea of “American” girls being obsessed with looks is just the beginning of his criticism. Later in the song appear the lyrics, “You keep nodding at me looking vacant”, which is an encoded message which I have decoded as Healey’s view of American girls as dump who have nothing in their head and have nothing to contribute intellectually to society. In the lyrics also appear a comment on America’s relationship with guns, “And I think she’s got a gun divinely decreed and custom made”, which has a lot of meaning to it, but also relates to the historical context of the song because according to The Washington Post the second most “astounding” thing to happen in 2015 was that gun deaths became as common as traffic deaths in the U.S. In pop culture, 2015 was the year that Gigi Hadid and Kendall Jenner made their Victoria’s Secret Fashion Show debut. This is significant because they are celebrities whom young women look up to and they influenced the way that these young women want to act and dress and watching them walk on a runway makes the girls want to be like them even more. This ties into the commentary on vanity that The 1975’s song makes in regard to “American” girls. 
Matty Healey’s point of view of “American” girls, as heard in this song, is shaped by his intersectionality. His background of being a British male who was a famous musician who had not interacted with American girls influenced his judgment of them when he did interact with them. His view of the world and of people was because of the way he grew up and he then judged these American girls off of the that view and this is evident in the song. This helps me understand where the performer is coming from and understand the meaning of the song more because it turns the song from just a good song to an outsiders perspective of American culture and it makes it so much more interesting to listen too. 
Sources: 
1975, The. “She's American.” YouTube, YouTube, 15 Apr. 2017, www.youtube.com/watch?v=vllx-EDeako.
Healy, Matthew. “She’s American.” I like it when you sleep, for you are so beautiful yet so unaware of it, Adam Hann, George Daniel, Matthew Healy & Ross MacDonald,  Interscope Records and Dirty Hit, 2016, 5. Genius , https://genius.com/The-1975-shes-american-lyrics
Swanson, Ana. “11 Astounding Things That Happened in 2015.” The Washington Post, WP Company, 23 Dec. 2015, www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/23/11-ways-that-2015-made-history/?utm_term=.a281347f4dd0.
Chang, Mahalia. “Year In Review: The Biggest Pop Culture Events of 2015.” ELLE, 1 May 2018, www.elle.com.au/news/year-in-review-the-biggest-pop-culture-events-of-2015-1-6248.
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waystarresourceco · 6 months
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Sarah Snook on Shiv's relationship with Logan (top quote) and Shiv's relationship with Tom (bottom quote).
It's almost like Shiv learned that the only way to build a connection with someone is to rip someone else apart...
Full interviews here and here
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pynkhues · 2 years
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THOUGHTS?
So many!! I haven't had the chance to read the script yet in full, but I've been kind of obsessed with that line from Shiv about Kendall being addicted to sex since the episode aired, in no small part because he hasn't really seemed to be? If anything, it feels more like he's addicted to relationships with the way he flits between and clings to Rava, Jennifer and Naomi across the course of the show.
Roman's line about the nanny is especially fun to me on a few fronts though, as I feel like it snakes its way through a lot of the overall themes of the show around parenthood and staff and misplaced intimacy and sex. It's this sort of pinpointing of the way that the Roy's all view the staff as something they're entitled to, but also as something that's supposed to provide this degree of intimacy to them. It's even richer when you add into the fact that there's something inherently oedipal about a man and his nanny, and the way Shiv made those jokes in the finale about Roman and Caroline too before ultimately having Caroline metaphorically fuck them, is just - - yes. Poetic cinema, haha.
It's also interesting to me that Shiv's the one who tells Kendall he's addicted to sex when she's the one who's been shown to be most sexually inclined on the show, and Roman's the one to make the joke about trying to fuck the staff when he's been doing what he's doing with Gerri (and she's not his nanny, of course, but the oedipal territory of looking after him definitely feeds into that sort of dynamic too). It's making me think a lot about where their dysfunction overlaps, but that feels like a whole other post.
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pynkhues · 2 years
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Logan needs to be put in the bin but the 'kick anything he loves' thing is driving me insane from a psych perspective. Where's that coming from? Did he feel so abandoned by in childhood/youth that he constantly feels the need to test that people love him unconditionally/wont leave him? Is this Rose's influence again? If its based around the whole Rose thing, is that why he does it so often to Kendall particularly? We need a Rose Roy AMA immediately.
That line from Caroline felt like it kicked me in the chest, anon!! It was awful, but so poignant and really cut to the heart of Logan's abuse. To have that scene so promptly followed by the one with Logan and Kendall was gutting generally, but to have Kendall try and take the out Logan was forcing him to only to have the leash firmly pulled tight again - - it's no wonder 3.08 ended the way it did. Logan wants Kendall to feel punished and unwanted, but he doesn't ever want him gone. I said it in tags I think on the day of the ep, but it's like he wants to lock him out of the house but make sure he stays in the backyard, pawing at the door.
It's awful, but man, if Brian and Jeremy didn't sell it. This show handles abuse so deftly most of the time, but that scene I think is one of the season's if not the series' best.
(This got a little long, so I'm putting it under a cut, haha).
But yes! I'm inclined to think a lot of Logan's feelings around fatherhood and relationships have been shaped by his upbringing. We simultaneously know so much and nothing at all, so it's sort of hard to know the exacts of any of it, but we know Ewan, Logan and Rose were sent to live with their Uncle and his wife in Canada when they were very young because their widowed mother couldn't look after them, and that they never saw her again. We know that Noah ran the print shop that Logan took over and turned into Waystar Royco, and we know that Noah was extremely physically abusive given the scars on Logan's back. We know Rose died, and that Logan blames himself (but, interestingly, that Ewan doesn't blame him), and that he married Connor's mother and had Connor in his mid-twenties, before having the golden trio in his forties, and getting at least full custody of the latter.
We also know, of course, that Connor's mother had some sort of mental illness. I talked about it a bit in this post before the last episode aired, but I'm actually more inclined than ever to think that Logan took full custody of Connor when his mother was institutionalised. Knowing now that he did of the golden trio after his and Caroline's divorce really strengthens that for me (it totally features into that sense of how possessive Logan is of all four of them), and in a lot of ways Caroline inviting Connor to her wedding feels like it bolsters that a bit too. If he'd been living with Caroline and his dad from the time he was fourteen or fifteen, or gosh, maybe even younger, Caroline would likely have enough connection to him to invite him, even if it was just for show.
I'm doubly fascinated by the podcast mention in 3.08 too – a show pitched at looking at the tragedies surrounding the Roy's, and as Comfrey said, it's set to cover Connor's mother, Logan and Rose, the tabloid suicides that Frank mentioned in 3.01 (which I'm also fascinated about) and Andrew, the cater waiter Kendall accidentally killed.
That doesn't tell us a lot, but I think it does tell us whatever happened to Connor's mother and Rose is tragic, and I've made the argument before that I think Rose might have had mental health issues and commit suicide (which I think could've been why Logan ended up with perhaps a similar woman in Connor's mother and married and had a son so young), but again, this is all just speculation.
But yes! More to the point of your ask, haha, I do think Logan's behaviour is tied to his own abuse. Jesse Armstrong talks a lot about how this show is primarily about generational trauma, and a key part of that is the spectre of Logan's unmanaged pain. He's perpetrator, survivor and victim, all rolled into one, and I think a lot of that is manifested in the analogy Caroline used. Logan obviously kept going back to his uncle in a way Ewan didn't – Ewan served in Vietnam after all, while Logan stayed at the print shop – and I wonder how much that compounded this attitude that abuse is a form of love.
How we're trained to receive love is, after all, at the heart of the series too. While it happens throughout, I don't think it's ever been clearer than in Kendall's fixation with Sophie Iwobi in 3.03. She was insulting him in increasingly humiliating ways, and he was convinced she loved him, because that's what Kendall's been brought up to believe love looks like.
For Logan, his first understanding of what family was was in abandonment – a dead father, a mother who sent them away and never saw them again, an older brother who went to war, a dead sister – which makes me inclined to believe that Noah was probably the first person Logan had in his life who stayed. To have that first formative experience of stability intrinsically tied to violence and abuse is a monstrous sort of love that I think Logan probably internalised to survive. How that manifested then with testing everyone he loves to see if they have the strength and the 'love' themselves to stay too – the strength and love Logan had to have for Noah, later immortalised and objectified in the family business – is unspeakably traumatic.
Add to that Logan's ego and temper and neediness and the horrible, deep, broken love he has for his children, and you just get a world on fire.
In that sense, I do think Rose always factors in, but I think she particularly factors in as a part of why Logan's so possessive of them, and is so afraid of losing them. I talked about it a lot in this post (which you might have read already given your ask, haha), but I think Logan's reaction in 2.04 to Kendall being missing after the gunshot and the glass being put up at the end of the ep was so loaded and not a side of him we often see at all. He knew how vulnerable Kendall was, and Logan's coddling of him in those moments of s2 - - I don't know. I do tend to tie them to Logan having experienced something similar with Rose, and having the show mention her in 3.08 as a part of the Roy family tragedies definitely bolsters that argument for me too.
It's such a rich topic to discuss! Logan's awful, but man, I love him as a character. He's so, so compelling.
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pynkhues · 2 years
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still thinking about Connor saying he didn't see Logan for 3 years. What was happening?? Was Connor with his mom? Boarding school? Why didn't Logan see Connor??? I'm guessing this was a time of huge growth for the company, maybe when Logan transitioned from multi millionaire to billionaire. And it probably ended when Logan married Caroline. Ah I just have SO many questions
Gosh, I'm still thinking about it too, anon. I'm obsessed with how well thought-out all the backstory is (would literally kill to get to read the series bible - I feel like it's probably a beast of a document, haha) and every time they drop a tidbit I become the Charlie from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia meme.
Three years is such a specific period of time, I feel like it gives the impression that Logan left Connor, but then came back and got him? Something I think that's pretty supported by Connor being so involved with the golden trio and knowing Caroline's estate like he does. Surely if Logan had abandoned Connor entirely in his childhood, Connor would've said that, but to instead put a timeframe on it implies something else. A sort of contained period of time as opposed to an ongoing abandonment.
I think you're probably right in that Connor probably got lost in the shuffle of one of Waystar's big expansions, and was probably neglected in the early days of Logan and Caroline's relationship (after all, we've now seen how swept up both Logan and Caroline get with new relationships, to the detriment of everything else in their lives).
My inclination is probably that Logan and Connor's mother separated in Connor's late childhood / tween years – maybe when he was around ten or eleven – and it wasn't until Logan decided he was setting up house with Caroline, that he wanted Connor back at his side. It likely timed with Connor's mother being institutionalised and maybe even Logan's falling out with Ewan too.
It makes me curious as to how different Logan was as a father to Connor. If there's a fifteen year age gap between Connor and Kendall like Alan's said, that puts Logan at 25 when he had Connor and 40 when he started having the golden trio. It's a wildly different stage of life, and even more so when you compound it with Logan's ascension in wealth and power. He probably wasn't thinking of his legacy in Connor's childhood and adolescence in the same way he was thinking about it in Kendall, Roman and Shiv's, and having three children to groom and pit against each other with your empire and their mother's aristocratic genes and status is probably much more appealing than one adult-child you already briefly abandoned with a mother who's mentally ill.
I don't know though! What do you guys think?
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pynkhues · 2 years
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Piggybacking off my earlier ask about Logan and the kids' SOs, how do you think he'll react to Connor and Willa's engagement? Thank you/curse you for feeding my Succ obsession as always. ❤️
(x)
You're welcome, and thank you/curse you for feeding my Succession obsession too, haha, I love your asks so much.
And mmmm, honestly, I think it's going to depend where Connor comes down in s4? Right now, it's actually hard to tell who he's set to be on the side of given so much of his focus in Kendall's intervention was on (justifiably) his birthright in the family, but also on wanting Kendall to stop going after their dad. At the same time, Roman was on the phone to him on the way to the failed meeting, and something I've noticed on my rewatch is that Connor's actually usually gone to his siblings before going to his dad. He went to Shiv for support on his political campaign before he went to Logan, and I think the fact that the three siblings were at the preview of Willa's play before Connor ever went to Logan for more money means he likely was talking to them about that first too.
I do think a part of that could be about getting his siblings onside as a way to get to his dad (as all of them do! Each of them wants to be the number one boy, but they also all desperately know there's safety in numbers), but given how hard s3 went on reiterating that Connor's been a surrogate father to all three of them, I think his loyalty could be to them first.
In that sense, I think Logan's reaction to Connor and Willa's engagement is going to be really dependent on circumstance. It's obviously a pretty big weapon in Logan's arsenal in terms of smear campaign ala Shiv's letter about Kendall, but I think the reverse could be true too. I think he could use cleaning up Willa's past as an incentive to pull Connor on-side (which could even be a parallel to Marcia's storyline? We don't know who cleaned up her past after all), or even as a faux olive branch. A gesture of fatherly love, even if it's really more of a manipulation.
His personal feelings though - - man, I don't think he disapproves as such (gosh, he was even taking Willa through his collectibles in the Thanksgiving ep), but I think he probably figures that there's a place for Willa, and I doubt that that place is as Connor's wife. I think if she was an eternal sidepiece, Logan might even endorse the relationship, but the engagement itself would be a similar sort of humiliating for Logan that Connor's presidential run is. The thing about Logan, I think, is that he can eat shit sometimes, but he never likes being thought a joke.
I wonder too if maybe there's an added layer of it too for Logan in terms of Caroline? I think Logan likes to blame a lot of the kids' faults on her, and we know that he loves it when the kids pick him over her. I think there's probably a part of Logan that really wants Connor to be seen as a success if only so he can further blame Caroline for any failings Kendall, Roman and Shiv have, if that makes sense? And given none of the kids have especially normal relationships, I feel like that could come into play even more?
Either way, I think it's going to be messy, haha, and I can't wait to see the fallout in s4. What do you think?
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pynkhues · 2 years
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Hi again! I was just re-reading your meta about Logan’s use of emasculating language with Kendall and Roman, and how likely it is that Logan told Kendall to keep his sex life in line at an early age. Which like, ew gross. But also Logan must have been pretty focused on succession and dynasty at one point, his eldest son as his natural successor, and I then wonder how it ties in to him having married into aristocracy. Like, it’s kind of royal, right? This sort of ‘have your fun but make sure you get married and have kids, preferably with the right sort’ pressure on the eldest son. And so I then wonder about how much Kendall actually wanted to have kids, and how similar he might be to Caroline in that respect (who must also have had that same pressure to marry and reproduce applied to her by her own family). Although I do tend to feel that Kendall, when he does manage to engage with his children, is more loving towards them than Logan and Caroline ever were with him and his siblings. So maybe he did want to have kids after all, and his want of them happened to align with Logan’s desires. Which must have added another layer to the emotions in play when Iverson was born - the eldest son finally producing another son, dynasty secured for sexist racist grandpa. And then for both Kendall and Iverson to slowly come to represent failure in Logan’s eyes, because they both fail to meet Logan’s view of power and masculinity. Like, UGH. And ugh, this ask is a mess, I’m sorry! Just thinking about the Roys in royalty/dynastic terms gives me feelings because royalty is so very fucked up and usually means terrible things for the people living within that system.
Hi hi! And yeah, it’s all such fascinating things to think about.
In terms of the dynasty / succession stuff, and particularly Logan and Caroline’s relationship, I think it’s kind of this classic conflict between old money and new. Caroline brings with her not just the prestige of old money aristocracy, but with it the roots. She’s established in a way Logan wasn’t as a young man, and likely was still in the process of becoming when they met. There’s very often a sort of instability with new money that breeds insecurity, because ultimately that power and that wealth is unproven.
F. Scott Fitzgerald is one of my favourite authors, and it was a theme he was pretty obsessed with, I mean, gosh, it’s the entire crux of The Great Gatsby. Gatsby’s faking it until he makes it, and while he eventually makes his fortune before the novel starts, by that point, Daisy, who’s old money, has married somebody else who’s already established as old money.
It's probably best articulated in this quote:
‘However glorious might be his future as Jay Gatsby, he was at present a penniless young man without a past, and at any moment the invisible cloak of his uniform might slip from his shoulders. So he made the most of his time. He took what he could get, ravenously and unscrupulously—eventually he took Daisy one still October night, took her because he had no real right to touch her hand. He might have despised himself, for he had certainly taken her under false pretenses. I don’t mean that he had traded on his phantom millions, but he had deliberately given Daisy a sense of security; he let her believe that he was a person from much the same stratum as herself—that he was fully able to take care of her. As a matter of fact he had no such facilities—he had no comfortable family standing behind him and he was liable at the whim of an impersonal government to be blown anywhere about the world.’
I don’t think Logan was penniless when he met Caroline, but it’s canon that he grew up very poor, and I think a huge part of his attraction to her was about legitimising not just himself and his status, but that of any future children. (And actually, Connor too. I mean, I’ve talked about it on here a lot before, but the combination of Connor knowing so much about Caroline’s estates at Shiv’s wedding, and Connor being invited to Caroline’s makes me think Logan made active efforts to bring Logan up with him).
Logan is a character who’s strategizing even when he’s not, and we know legacy’s important to him, but I think writing his children a history different from his own was important to him too. Marrying Caroline meant any children he had with her would, technically, be old money. They’d have his name but her roots, which would be a way of sort of grafting himself onto her family tree, so to speak.
He got to give his children the best of both worlds, which honestly, I think he did and still does want. He never wanted them to have to scrape and survive – or 'take ravenously and unscrupulously', as Fitzgerald beautifully puts it, like he did – just after he gave that to them, he resented them for everything they had. Still resents them for it, gosh. Kendall was spot on when he told him in 1.07 that Logan was jealous of what he gave them, and he was especially right when he told him he couldn’t handle it.
A part of Logan lives through his kids and I think he wants to give them what he didn’t get to have as a way of giving it to himself. I think he wants to do that because he believes it'll heal his childhood trauma, but life doesn't work that way. His children are their own people, but because Logan can’t really differentiate, he views their flaws as his failings, as both a father and a man. That projection just perpetuates this cycle of abuse because the only way Logan was ever taught how to handle failure was through violence and taking what he could, so he takes whatever his children can give him, and tries to destroy whatever they can’t or whatever they won’t.
It’s vicious and fascinating and horrible and so, so compelling to me.
In that sense though, I tend to think Kendall having kids so young with Rava was actually more about Kendall than about Logan, at least consciously. I’m sure there was a lot of subconscious stuff happening in both of them, but timeline-wise, it makes for an interesting match. From Alan Ruck saying Connor’s 15 years older than Kendall, and Kendall turning 40 in s3, and, from my timeline I’ve been mocking up, it’s been maaaybe a year since Logan’s 80th in 1.01 – it would make Logan 25 when he had Connor. Given I think Iverson and Sophie are supposed to be somewhere between the age of 12 and 14, it’d put Kendall then at about 26 when he had them, and I think in terms of Kendall’s character (and his comparing in 2.08 at Dundee), that it feels believable that he’d be trying to match his father’s milestones.
It's an internalised way of trying to live up to his father's legacy, to following in his footsteps literally instead of figuratively, to making sure his dad knew that he was the one. He was the second born, but he was the prince to crown.
I could be wrong of course, and maybe Logan was putting the pressure on him, or Rava wanted them, or maybe their friends were doing it (although I doubt it just because the show has specifically had so many characters not have kids), but the fact that Sophie, if not Iverson too (although I do tend to think he’s biological), is pretty clearly adopted I think tells us there was a sense of wanting kids then and there.
Either way, I do think Logan would’ve responded positively to it in the first instance. I do think dynasty and succession is important to him, especially when you add to the fact that it’s generally third generation that transitions you from a new money house to an old money house. There’d be a certain class / prestige security for Logan in having grandchildren, and, like you said, it secures this dynasty for him. It pretty clearly rubs up against his extreme fear of aging, to say nothing of the fact that Sophie’s both a girl and not biological, and Iverson’s more or less textually autistic and not performing the correct sort of masculinity that Logan wants, but still, I do think he likes having them.
Even putting the dynasty stuff aside, I think it’s normal for people who’ve been abused and abandoned by family to want to create a big one to surround themselves with, even if they treat them badly. Logan feels, generally, that he has control over this new family he’s made for himself, and it’s a control he tries to exert almost absolutely. It’s legacy and succession, but it’s also a child pushing all his dolls and stuffed animals onto his bed and not letting anyone else touch them.
He was mistreated by his family, so he created a new one, but when that mistreatment is all you’ve ever known, for a man like Logan who refuses any help to reflect and grow, is it any wonder he mistreats them as well?
And you’re right too that that mistreatment just keeps spreading. Trauma is never contained to just one person, which is so beautifully encapsulated in this show, it just sprawls out and out and out, and the second traumatised people get an ounce of power, that sprawl just has vaster and vaster ramifications.
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