#persona 5 royal meta

[justanothershippingcan]

It makes me almost laugh how, even after P5R, some genuinely believe Akiren and Akechi hate each other. It’s just so baffling to me when (and this isn’t even everything):

1) The whole beginning of their confidant (and Akiren still going out with Akechi for eight whole ranks) implies in a not-even-subtle way that Akiren knew. He knew from the very start that Akechi was someone at the very least dangerous due to his detective work, and even more so with the full-on certainty (basically) that Akechi had already been into the metaverse. Yet the full true ending requires that the whole confidant has been completed and truly, besides an initial attempt to understand the danger the PTs were getting into with Akechi, Akiren/Akechi’s whole outings were... dates. The most normal of dates, aside from Rank 7 (which is where, again, not even so subtly, Goro “mentions” the whole assassination ordeal and an aborted-from-the-start possible accomplice route) and ofc Rank 8. Akiren didn’t have much to gain from them, besides possibly understanding... well, Akechi as a person. And also, Akiren is kind of an appreciator of the fine art of danger, he likes the thrill of it. He loves the rivalry they have. 

2) I adore how dudebros many use the whole “I hate you” bit of Rank 8 as proof of Akechi’s hatred towards Akiren and... it is kinda funny. Because, yes, the sentiment is there, and Akechi isn’t utterly lying, but it requires a reading between the lines operation. Both Morgana and Maruki literally state, respectively that “Goro likes Joker” (OG Japanese Engine Room, translated in English as “You don’t hate Joker”, which still conveys the same meaning, albeit less strongly/forwardly) and that their relationship “ISN’T based on hatred, nor ill will”. 

What Goro defines as spite for Akiren as a person is mostly spite because of his envy. Envy because Joker is everything Goro could have been had he had a chance. Envy because Joker was luckier. Envy because Joker got what Akechi had been craving for the most: being loved by people around him for who he is. These same people are also ones that state how basically everything from Akechi’s mouth is a full on lie besides this one and only one, but I digress. A more normal line of thoughts linked to this is, well, Akechi’s whole assassination attempt as proof of his hatred again, which well, the assassination attempt is yikes on a healthy relationship perspective, but since I am not debating on whether their relationship is healthy or not as if enemies to lovers where the lovers attempt to kill each other isn’t a basis for many heterosexual classical literature romances as well, isn’t it pretty funny that Goro challenges Akiren to a duel just before that fateful day of November. And isn’t it even funnier how he wasn’t that surprised by Akiren surviving and even states,at max rank, how Akiren too isn’t satisfied with how they left it either. I wonder.

3) P5R whole, well, Royal part is literally Maruki creating a false reality for all the PTs and somehow people still believe Akiren hates Goro with the full-on knowledge that Akiren’s whole ideal (again ideal, wished for) reality is Goro living and working with the PTs. It’s Goro having a second chance. It’s Goro specifically being with him, playing Chess with him in the reserved space of Akiren’s attic (the window behind them is the same as Akiren’s attic), their card is the only one, besides Simping Morgana - where Ann isn’t even looking at him btw) - where two PTs are together). 

I have seen someone in a comment mention how this is proof Akiren wanted Akechi to pay for his crimes and being alive was so Goro could be sent to jail when? Literally Akechi isn’t allowed to go to jail in Maruki’s reality LMAO. Akiren could have asked for everything. Money, fame... yes, but we can state these aren’t truly Akiren-like wishes, right? So, not that. But how about... having a loving family that actually cares? Because no, I can’t believe parents who leave their child to a friend’s acquaintance are supposed to be good parents. But this is an HC, so let’s scrap that. Then there is it: clearing up his name. Making it so that all of his crimes would vanish completely, especially in a country like Japan where having a dirty record is utterly terrible. He would get rid of the side-looks, the prejudices, the suspicions possibly brewing in his home town about him being the worst of criminals at age 17/18. And yet. No. For sure we can say the PTs being all together is also accounted for in Akiren’s wish, possibly, but the thing is, Maruki doesn’t use that as a last resource. His ace in his sleeve was Akechi. Had always been.

4) Every single third awakening in the game is in each PT’s room. It’s somewhere private, somewhere which is only theirs, somewhere they can call home. Akechi’s initially, in early development as uncovered by Faz, was in Jazz Jin which, he himself admits, is kinda his place, a place where he unwinds and relaxes. Akin to, well, a bedroom. Yet, it was significantly changed. Changed to freaking Leblanc. And no, I don’t think it’s because of the coffee. 

5) You know the song No More What Ifs? The one which at first was in Proof Of Justice (which, by the way, either inspired the contents of the game or the Anime and P5R directors are besties, since what’s in there is basically Akechi’s P5R confidant condensed in 20 minutes of angsty gay longing footage) and then got put, as many other Proof of Justice related matters - as stated above -, in the game? It’s literally Akechi’s theme song. And it talks about him in every way (I can only be me... if you haven’t read Mementos Mission GO READ IT) and about someone else who brings joy to life (I wonder who that is)? Yes, well, the instrumental of it is the default song in the Thieves Den. Which. It’s defined as Akiren’s palace. 2+2=4 and in here Suspicious coincidences add up to just equal either fruity (for real) or still the undeniable fact that what these two share is a sentiment far, far from hatred.

#Ramble rumblings of a rumbling woman #Aka I have seen the 'Akechi and Akiren hate each other' take far too many times to stay silent and sane any longer #Using Akiren mainly because I personally prefer Ren but I know most fans would rather go with Akira so porque no los dos? #And I could go on btw but these are the most important and prominent #And ones which you mostly get by just reading and yes I am here wondering how to many it's so difficult to understand #Shipping them is far from required but I am here wondering with which glasses people are reading P5R to say these two hate each other's gut #If you want to add to this feel free I will be thriving over every addition with the tears of al deniers #Half Joking #Kinda #As usual though don't take my posts too seriously but this time kinda do #Akira Kurusu #Goro Akechi #Ren Amamiya #Persona 5 Royal #Persona 5 Royal Spoilers #P5 #P5R #Persona 5 Royal Meta #I guess? #Akeshuu #Akeshu #Shuuake #Shuake #long post #mine

[npd-goro-akechi]

I dont like how often Ill see people say that Akechi "didnt ever" hate Joker, that hes always liked Joker, because I think a lot of the appeal of their relationship comes from how Akechi simultaneously loves and hates him, and insisting that he only feels one or the other - I think - kind of takes away from that. Why? Why cant it be both? Why cant he absolutely despise Joker for making him feel inferior, for getting in the way of everything he has ever set out to do. Why cant he be angry at how now of all times he finds someone who can keep up with him and understand him? And why cant all that be true, and how he likes Joker for being everything he couldnt, for being a hero he could only wish to be, for, like him, never straying from his morals and convictions? As I said before, I feel like not understanding this mix of love and hate undermines their relationship. But I also think it takes away from Shido and Akechi's relationship, too. Shido is Akechis father, and despite EVERYTHING, Akechi still does want that praise and admiration from him, he still wants to be cared for by his family. The closest people to Akechi are Joker and Shido, and he has a love/hate relationship with BOTH, and thats important because if the basis of those two relationships are the same, we can start looking at what the differences are. Despite Akechi having such turbulent feelings towards both, the two relationships are so different, you can easily see the mutual respect and understanding and agency Joker and Akechi share when compared to Shido and Akechi. Insisting that Akechi only feels either love or hate towards either, or insisting that Akechi ONLY has a love/hate relationship towards Joker takes away from his character and the importance of both of these relationships and their effect on Akechi's character Anyway... hope that made sense. Im just rambling thoughts I've never had time to write down before and also this is just firmly my opinion! I will not start hunting down someone just because they said akechi only hates or only loves joker lets all be civil thank you goodnight

#persona 5 #p5r #persona 5 royal #goro akechi #shuake #akeshu #If I worded anything weirdly sorry Im tired :(( Im just a guy dont blame me #p5 meta

[composeregg]

Should Goro Akechi end up in prison after what he did?

Legally: I mean, yeah. He did kill so many people. He did so much shit. Even a plea deal can't save him much.

But personally? I say:

Fuck that shit.

Choosing prison as a punitive form of repentance does nothing to help people. It offers no chance to put one foot in front of the other, to struggle forward and deal with the weight of his past as he tries to be better. There is so much he could do.

Rotting in a cell does nothing.

It's the easy way out. One where punishment is payment for the debt of the guilt. A lifetime locked away doesn't undo what he did. A lifetime spent living won't either, but it gives a way forward. To prove himself. All that twisted anger and rage is so easily passion, emotion that can be put to use. If he still wants to be a hero, I'm sure he could find some way to make sure others don't end up where he was. I'm not sure he'd be satisfied with a simple job, not when there's more he could do, no matter the form it takes.

Punishment is easy. Change is much, much harder.

But he'd want the challenge anyway.

#p5 #p5 meta #persona 5 #goro akechi #akechi goro #persona 5 royal #p5r #egg speaks #my cat hasnt let me brush my teeth for an hr #so enjoy

[huesofvioletandpurple]

in genuine disbelief that they placed Akechi “boy with many faces who sees his own life as trivial and was in genuine despair and anger that despite doing his best to justify his existence he couldn’t be happy” Goro and Yoshizawa “girl who willingly let someone rewrite her identity because she thought she was fundamentally unloveable and irredeemable as her true self” Sumire in the SAME TRIO and yet did fuckshit Nothing with these parallels

#persona #persona 5 royal #p5r #goro akechi #sumire yoshizawa #akechi goro #LIKE. HELLO. HOW #HOW DOES THIS OPPORTUNITY JUST GO OVER YOUR HEAD #HOW !!!!!!! #I think I can tag this as #meta #persona 5 royal spoilers #p5r spoilers #nooty lore

[specterthief]

The Spider and the Fly

in the english localization of persona 5 royal, when lavenza speculates that maruki may have used the counseling sessions to intentionally prime the phantom thieves to want his actualization, akechi references a 19th century children’s poem, the spider and the fly by mary howitt.

while this reference is only in the english version of the game (in japanese akechi merely remarks that the thieves all happily allowed themselves to be fooled) and the quote about the spider’s parlour is one of the most recognizable quotes in english literature, meaning any references other than this one are almost certainly coincidental, there are still some fascinating comparisons that can be drawn to the text of the poem and i’m going to go on about them for too long because of who i am as a person. enjoy!

"Will you walk into my parlour?" said a spider to a fly; " 'Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy.

the first line, “will you walk into my parlour?” (often misquoted as “step into my parlour��� or “come into my parlour”) is a quote associated with false offers of friendship, and fits perfectly with the realization that the thieves have just made in this scene and especially with akechi’s feelings about maruki—the idea that his help and friendship was always a trap, that, as lavenza suggests may be possible, he was manipulating his interactions with the thieves from the start for his own ends. (something that we know is at least partially true, from his admission that suspecting joker and his friends were the phantom thieves was his motivation for approaching them at all.)

(i also think it’s fitting of maruki that despite the fact that the line is often misquoted as a command by the spider, it’s originally actually phrased as a friendly question, the same as how he always leaves the idea of accepting his deal as a choice—even though he demonstrably has the power to force joker to comply, or erase the thieves from existence altogether.)

The way into my parlour is up a winding stair, And I have many pretty things to shew when you are there." "Oh no, no!" said the little fly, "to ask me is in vain, For who goes up your winding stair can ne'er come down again."

the way to the very heart of maruki’s palace is, in fact, up a winding staircase.

"I'm sure you must be weary, with soaring up so high, Will you rest upon my little bed?" said the spider to the fly. "There are pretty curtains drawn around, the sheets are fine and thin; And if you like to rest awhile, I'll snugly tuck you in." "Oh no, no!" said the little fly, "for I've often heard it said, They never, never wake again, who sleep upon your bed!"

and in a very quick turn from a mundane detail to a very sinister one, the fly says that those who sleep in the spider’s bed never wake again; in the deadline ending, maruki puts joker into an endless sleep. he’s even surrounded by spiderwebs in the final cutscene. and as the spider worries about the fly’s weariness, claiming to genuinely be offering her rest, maruki bemoans that he’s made joker suffer by expecting him to make a decision—

—and lets him “rest” by removing his will to think and choose for himself altogether.

this also isn’t the only instance of him putting someone to sleep like this, as when he kidnaps sumire on 1/2, when joker and akechi return a week later, they find her asleep, having presumably been so since she was first knocked out (though it’s not strictly clear where he takes her or what’s happened to her in the last week.) in this scene, she only wakes from her sleep when maruki allows her.

and when they find her, the throne she’s sitting in is adorned with a veil... but one could also describe it as having a “pretty curtain drawn around.”

Said the cunning spider to the fly, "Dear friend, what shall I do, To prove the warm affection I've always felt for you? I have, within my pantry, good store of all that's nice; I'm sure you're very welcome – will you please to take a slice?" "Oh no, no!" said the little fly, "kind sir, that cannot be," I've heard what's in your pantry, and I do not wish to see."

maruki repeatedly uses an offer of snacks to entice the thieves to come to counseling, and always gives joker snacks at the end of their sessions. food (particularly expensive food) as a means of him showing friendship to joker specifically also comes up in several of his confidant ranks, starting with the cookies in rank 5:

the fancy buffet he takes joker to in rank 8:

and the expensive tempura lunch they share in rank 10:

"Sweet creature!" said the spider, "you're witty and you're wise. How handsome are your gauzy wings, how brilliant are your eyes! I have a little looking-glass upon my parlour shelf, If you'll step in one moment, dear, you shall behold yourself." "I thank you, gentle sir," she said, "for what you're pleased to say, And bidding you good morning now, I'll call another day."

maruki’s very complimentary of joker’s intelligence throughout his confidant, even from the first time they meet, especially when joker’s insight is something he can use in his research. while i don’t think this is strictly false flattery (his admiration of joker seems to be honest, and a deep investment in joker’s opinion is something that comes up in his private thoughts as they're shown in his journal) it is still relevant.

more relevant to the overall point about him orchestrating his interactions with the thieves, him being very quick to praise comes up with them in their sessions too, like here with ann:

and makoto:

and then as to the line about the fly “beholding herself”:

literally beholding herself, both her true and false self, is a repeated theme with sumire in maruki’s palace.

The spider turned him round about, and went into his den, For well he knew, the silly fly would soon come back again: So he wove a subtle web, in a little corner, sly, And set his table ready, to dine upon the fly.

maruki’s certainty that joker will come around to his reality comes up multiple times, with multiple deadlines for him to change his mind and come back to take his deal.

though perhaps the most apt is 2/2;

where “the silly fly would soon come back again” could more be linked to joker not taking the deal—and going up the winding stair to eden, where maruki is waiting to fight the thieves to the death.

Then he went out to his door again, and merrily did sing, "Come hither, hither, pretty fly, with the pearl and silver wing; Your robes are green and purple – there's a crest upon your head; Your eyes are like the diamond bright, but mine are dull as lead."

maruki specifically comments on joker’s eyes being bright, as the spider does the fly. while this is part of the spider’s flattery in the poem and here is part of the scene that’s probably the most honest maruki’s ever been, i couldn’t not point out the coincidence of him describing joker in almost the exact same words.

Alas, alas! how very soon this silly little fly, Hearing his wily, flattering words, came slowly flitting by; With buzzing wings she hung aloft, then near and nearer drew, Thinking only of her brilliant eyes, and green and purple hue:– Thinking only of her crested head, poor foolish thing! – At last Up jumped the cunning spider, and fiercely held her fast.

He dragged her up his winding stair, into his dismal den, Within his little parlour – but she ne'er came out again! – And now, dear little children, who may this story read, To idle, silly, flattering words, I pray you ne'er give heed: Unto an evil counsellor, close heart, and ear, and eye, And take a lesson from this tale, of the Spider and the Fly.

this could again be compared to the sleep ending—

or the two difference scenes where sumire gets abruptly “held fast”—

but i think that line and the following ones about never returning from the spider’s parlour also fits the ending where you do take maruki’s deal, as according to lavenza, once mementos and reality fully merge again under his power, it will be impossible to escape or resist, even for the phantom thieves.

and indeed, the phantom thieves even seem to have forgotten who the anonymous “man wearing hat” is in that ending, meaning they may not even remember who they could fight back against if they wanted to. 

...and, of course, the “unto an evil counsellor” line speaks for itself. maruki is a counselor, and his confidant is the councilor arcana. the counselor who the thieves opened up to, who on some level was manipulating them from the very beginning, and uses their confidence in him to try and lure them, as akechi says, into the spider’s parlour—from where no one can escape.

#persona 5 #persona 5 royal #p5r #takuto maruki #third semester #meta #analysis #the spider and the fly #long post #third semester brainrot #overanalyzing something that absolutely could not have been intentional #i think about maruki a normal amount

[vashtijoy]

hellooooo so there's something i've been curious about: u know when (ka)sumi sees black mask crow for the first time and joker get two choices of "oh look your true outfit/wearing that one eh?" for me it sounds like a playful teasing/sarcasm in eng but does jp also carry the same tone? in addition, im also curious about "just everyday akechi/ (forgot the other choice oops)" comment

tbh it's probably nothing that significant but like i said, curious :D

Hello! Let's have a quick look at those lines. Here's the first pair:

そっちで来たか socchi de kita ka Wearing that one, eh? Oh, you came in that? 本来の姿だな honrai no sugata da na Oh look, your true outfit. Oh, look, your true form.

The first one is pretty much the same, but the second is different. sugata does mean someone's outfit or appearance, but honrai no sugata is a common phrase used to refer to someone's "true form"—such as a Shadow's.

This pays off with the next pair of responses you mention:

いつもは違う itsumo wa chigau Yep, this is his normal. He’s usually different. あれが正体 are ga shoutai Just everyday Akechi. That's his true form.

If you've played with the Japanese audio at all, you know shoutai—from Joker's yell as he ambushes, "Show me your true form!", shoutai o misero! So both the "true outfit" and "everyday Akechi" responses are wordplay, on the idea that Akechi is now in his "true form".

But note that first response here, itsumo wa chigau. In English, both responses are the same—essentially, "he's always like this". But the Japanese ones seem to differ?—you can say this is his true form, or you can say yeah, he's not always like this.

As for the tone—I'd say the tone is fairly similar, with the first pair being pointed, and the second being more serious, in reply to Yoshizawa's nervousness. You could read them as playful!—it really depends how you read the situation. It strikes me as being a little fraught, lmao.

#asks #persona 5 #p5 meta #japanese language #royal trio #ren amamiya #goro akechi #sumire yoshizawa

[somethingpersonarelated]

Another No More What Ifs Analysis

Okay, so... between wanting to analyze this and Our Light, and the kpop posts that I'll be doing that overlap with this. This blog will turn into Persona Music Analysis hour. Long post. Heavy spoilers for P5R, Proof of Justice, and Mementos Mission. BEGIN!

Let's begin with some context for the song. I think this is crucial to understanding why it is associated with Akechi's character. If you're familiar with this, you can skip to the lyrical analysis! The best analogy is that Beneath the Mask is to Akira as NMWI is to Akechi, in my opinion. Proof of Justice was an OVA released with the P5 anime (in May 2019) a couple months before the release of Persona 5 Royal in Japan (October of the same year). This OVA is centered around the relationship between Akira and Akechi. Specifically, Akira's grieving process as he goes through the places where they used to meet to find clues about the phrase "Proof of Justice" which was written in the Leblanc crossword. The Jazz Jin, as noted by Muhen here, is a place where Akechi would typically go alone. He also notes in confidant rank 4 that it wasn't necessarily a place that he was keeping secret, but that he never brought people around there since it was his personal space to reflect. As we'll examine, the content of the lyrics is too specific to not be related to the story, and there aren't any other characters or themes I could think are as associated with the song as Goro Akechi. Just wanted to clear this up first, as for some it's not entirely clear why the song is specifically Akechi's (since it's not explicitly stated, and the lyrics are hard to catch while you're playing through normally).

Lyrical Analysis

people come and they go some people may stay with you though I am all alone tonight and I kept on asking myself questions

The very first line is one of the easiest to dissect. Goro, since the death of his mother, has had few stable figures in his life, whether it is his parents, family, or friends. This also extends to his line of work as a celebrity detective, as he is kept so busy that there are very few people he sees on a regular basis, at all. He notes in the second confidant rank (if you choose to ask if he has no friends) that he doesn't have people that he chooses to spend time with. [I chose this option on my last play through and remember it but I can't find the dialogue anywhere].

The doubt that grows in this verse comes from the second line. He is taken by surprise that there is someone he is giving thought to for more than a couple seconds at time. Someone he is... to some degree choosing to spend time with even though he is doing it for the mission. At first, to investigate the Phantom Thieves identity to prevent them from interfering in his revenge plot, and then to lure Akira into a death trap. Tying it back to the first line analysis with the third and fourth line, this dissonance has put the first example of his doubt in this song.

Conceited I was at time I never really doubted myself But tonight got me thinking about it all if I am the fool or what not

There is a self-awareness that Goro always has about his personas (in the metaphorical sense). Goro kind of knows that he's arrogant and it was not ever something that bothered him. Even his character flaws will not get in the way of his plan, even if those flaws are just his humanity peeking through. There's a longing in Lyn's delivery of the last two lines here. He's stumped as to why he feels this way and the inner conflict makes him pause more than he is comfortable with.

"If I am the fool or what not." This line, is literally perfect, the double meaning is just ugh! We'll see this idea again near the end of the song, but I want to take an opportunity to talk about it now. For two years, Goro was the only Persona-user he knew, so he had no reason to believe anyone would ever stand a chance against him. Not only is he angered at himself for allowing Akira to get close to him and cause these doubts but he's also questioning what his role was.

I do not regret with my choices I'm rather proud ooh I know I won't change anything because I can only be me so

I had already written parts of this analysis like two months ago but I saw a post written by @vashtijoy here on how Mementos mission has a sneaky reference to this song. So check that out! It's something I never noticed.

Before Shido's palace, there's an acceptance of the circumstances in this line, that he has to do it regardless of what he may think because he has a goal. Throughout the third semester, we see an Akechi that is alive and tried to deal with the consequences of his actions before Maruki took that opportunity away from him. But he does not show remorse for what he did, that it was the only path he could have chosen with the information he knew.

How can I be so sure? at a crossroads I'm afraid too But I can't let fear get the best of me Someone once said burn my dread babe

This verse... this verse makes me wanna cry. I cannot even lie to you. The direct statement that there is fear behind the fact that he doesn't want to kill Akira and the acknowledgement in the last two lines that one of them has to end up dead. That he is also acknowledging that Akira must also be fearful, by playing with fire through continuing to lead the Phantom Thieves. The doubt is consuming him in this verse. The crossroad offers two choices, one where he sacrifices himself for Akira and one where Akira no longer is with him. The reference to Persona 3 really carries the weight here with this theory. I would explain more but I only spoiler tagged for P5R so we move.

Who knows what tomorrow holds? just wanna live my life the way I want what fills up my soul is passionate music that makes me want to sing

The first line, to me, reads that he's given up on allowing himself to think if there's another way to resolve his doubts. That there's another path where neither of them die and that it can't exist. He wants to live freely, which is what he thinks is assured once his revenge plan is complete. In another world, maybe it was one where both of them could be together without this chasing them. The last two lines I don't have a particular opinion about, but I think they add to the fact that Goro has given up entertaining other possibilities.

my story will be starring me just like yours ooh ooh who knows when will it end what matters most is how you bring joy to life so

I think about confidant rank 8. It feels written all over this line, and we come back to an idea that was present with "If I am the fool or what not." I think there's a bit of that 'hatred' that he talks about, that he's resentful that Akira story will end differently than his own. He's waiting for the day to come and resolves by centering himself, that once his goal is achieved, that he will achieve joy for the first time in his life. Refusing to acknowledge that Akira was showing him companionship that brought him happiness for one last time.

The Theme of Doubt

One of the things I have had trouble defining is what the doubt Goro is referring to is, or why the doubt is there. It's one of the things that is left in the air. Speculating here a little more than I usually will try to: the doubt stems from the fact that Goro is enjoying his time with the protagonist and is unsure what that means. In terms of what he is doubting, I'm not sure, I don't think he is referring to his plan, but rather the fact that Akira is caught up in it at all. His resolve to complete his plan never changes, but he wishes he could choose to leave him out of this. This tracks with a line stated by the SIU director which implies that some of the cruel actions carried out by the conspiracy/antisocial force by Akechi are not entirely his idea. He still carries them out without hesitation, but he never thinks of them himself. One of the reasons I wrote out this analysis was to see if there were any opinions on what this part of the song meant since I have trouble wrapping my head around it myself.

Goro, in base game and third semester, never shows any form of doubt or regret to the protagonist directly, only brief flickers and implications from dialogue. But this song is layered with it and bashes you in by telling you that it is what he is struggling with most when it comes to executing his plan. It's what nags at me even though I've tried to analyze this song a couple of times on my own.

IN CONCLUSION: I obviously hate goro akechi. (lying is fun)

#shuake #akeshu #akechi goro #akira kurusu #persona 5 spoilers #persona 5 royal #no more what ifs #persona music #persona analysis #i spent way too long writing this #can you tell this is my favorite persona song #p5 meta #thinking emoji

[akechi-stole-my-heart]

I've seen different takes on Akechi and his attitude toward his fame in fic I've read but I think a lot of them oversimplify things. Usually he's portrayed as being disillusioned or annoyed by his fans, and while I think that is true to an extent, it's also a lot more complicated than that.

Goro gets his self worth from other people. His success, his skills, his perception, are all how he values his worth as a human being. So when he first achieves fame, becomes Tokyo's new sweetheart, of course that's all going to go straight to his head. People love him. They're obsessed with him! He's going to revel in that, in the feeling of being liked and adored for the first time in his whole life.

And I think that there's always an underlying fear and bitterness, because that love is for a fake version of himself. People love the Detective Prince. They don't love Goro, and they never would, not if they knew the real him.

But all that doesn't really hit him until the public turns against him. The superficial and fickle nature of their love is abundantly clear once they all turn on him. I think it's then that Goro really starts to sour on the public and fame in general.

But of course, he still gets his self worth from what others think of him. No matter how much he wishes he didn't care what ignorant strangers think about him, on a deep level he can't quite control, he does. They hate him even as the Detective Prince. Even when he's the ideal person, even when he's erased every bit of his unlikable traits, he's still not good enough, and that hurts.

By the third semester, he's probably relieved to not have the public's eye on him any longer. He no longer has to perform the image of a perfect Detective Prince. But I think part of him probably misses it too. Misses being known and adored by strangers, misses being loved, even if it was by people who could never understand him. Which makes him hate his fame all the more, because he shouldn't miss any part of it. He shouldn't want the approval of others, he shouldn't care what anyone thinks. But of course he still does. He can't stop caring, not when he's cared for so long, when that's the only basis on which he's measured his self worth for as long as he can remember.

But he's done performing. He's done acting the perfect role of the lovable hero. Akechi is free to finally be himself. So Akechi stops trying to be liked, stops trying to be loved, and starts pushing everyone away instead. Because if he's not able to be loved, what's the point of even trying?

Goro thinks his true self is inherently unlovable. He's a failure and a murderer and there's no possible way anyone could overlook that. He thinks the only reason anyone ever liked him at all is because of his perfect fake public persona. And that's what makes Akira so incomprehensible to him. Because even when Goro drops that persona, even when he becomes the person he thinks he is--the asshole who no one could ever love--Akira still loves him. Akira sees the real Goro, and he likes him. Goro can't use his true self to push everyone away. It might work on the Phantom Thieves, but it just makes Akira love him even more.

#this derailed into an akeshu ramble sorry about that #i had a point and i hope i got that pount across but there you are #persona 5 #persona 5 royal #p5 #p5r #p5r spoilers #persona 5 royal spoilers #akeshu #shuake #goro akechi #akechi goro #meta #persona 5 meta #goro akechi meta #sera posts #sera talks goro

[saikolikes]

I Played Persona 5 Tactica, Here Is What I Think About It

I have long awaited Tactica since the first announcement trailer (yes, the one that got "accidentally" published by Atlus). After playing through the main story + DLC I needed to sort my thoughts & have decided to subject every other person on the internet to it.

First of all a few disclaimers: Did someone ask me to write this? No Do I care? No Do I need to sort out my thoughts out loud? Yes :D There will be spoilers for the entire game + DLC so read this post knowing that! Lastly, this post is highly critical but it comes from a place of enjoyment of the game and love for the series. If that hadn't been the case, I would've never spent literal days collecting all these words in one place.

So.

Let's start by: have I enjoyed my experience? Yes, most of the time. Would I recommend the game to someone else? Now that is a good question. Let's start from the theory.

What does Tactica want to achieve?

According to this interview by Business Producer Nomura, Director Maeda, and Composer Konishi, P5T had -- extremely summarized -- three main goals:

Maintaining the Persona 5 allure and imagery despite having a different gameplay and visual style

Making a strategy rpg accessible even to non-fans of the genre and non-navigated trpg players

Capturing "the straightforward and highly passionate feelings of the high school students, along with a slightly precarious, fleeting danger inherent in their straightforwardness" (Maeda, quoting from the Persona Central article previously cited)

If we hold what it said into this interview as our sole criteria for judging the game, Persona 5 Tactica aces most of it. I will go into each section deeper as this post goes on, but this game was clearly made with passion by people who have very clear in their minds what Persona 5 means, sounds, and feels like.

There is only one problem: it's not as clear who this game was made for.

Who's Tactica targeted at?

At its core, despite being a game that most likely only the more passionate P5 fans will buy, especially so far from P5's original release and so close to both P3:RE and the (plausible?) announcement of P6, Tactica's main story is so clearly made with the intent of being enjoyed by every possible P5 fan that the hardcore fanbase would probably be the last segment of players I would suggest that should play this game. Right from the start, it supplies you with practical notes about who is who, what key places you need to know, and other recap information from the previous game -- a nice feature, and very helpful... but clearly targeted at people who haven't touched P5 since 2017, or at least haven't been participating in some form of fandom in the past 6 years.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing bad with wanting to appeal to every possible player -- Strikers, too, was purposefully designed to be enjoyed no matter your starting point for the series, the game, the anime, or the manga (or none of these things, actually). I find some form of contradiction, however, in the fact that not only the DLC, which acts as a prequel to Tactica's main story, technically has light spoilers for Royal, but also... of all the people I know -- irl, on the internet, among gaming creators -- who played P5 the majority of them still has only played P5. They haven't been interested in the slightest in all these spinoffs that have come out in the meantime, not even in Royal. (more about this on Reddit)

My point is: at this point in time, with the infamous cow-milking reputation Atlus has especially regarding P5, the people who have bought and are going to buy the spinoffs no matter what are the hardcore fans. But this game isn't made for them for the most part -- and that is something that can sour the whole experience.

I won't get into the debate about the canonicity of the P5 timeline, but Tactica seems to have a few ideas and well-confused about the whole thing. Because the DLC is Royal compliant, even touches upon "Kasumi"'s bond with her sister, and is technically set parallel to Sae's Palace. Which sort of makes sense since Royal and Tactica share their producer (Wada). But then there is no mention of Royal canon whatsoever in the main story (01.29.24 EDIT: I stand slightly corrected, as Maruki does get hinted at... but I also stand by the fact he's not mentioned in a way that truly matters, and my point about the Third Kingdom I talk about later on is still valid). Sure, much like Strikers, Tactica does not contradict Royal. But between not contradicting and actively enforcing there is a world of difference.

During the game, specific events of P5 are referenced, much more heavily than what happens in Strikers, with Shido and the political scandal being addressed more than once -- to the point where the December calling card is what prompted Toshiro out of his subservient attitude towards his father. Even Yaldabaoth is mentioned and compared to Salmael, the Big Baddie of Tactica, something that in Strikers was left much vaguer ("it's been x months since we fought a god"). And this does not happen for any of the Royal content. Despite the DLC, the Royal-compliant DLC, very clearly linking its story with the main one. Even more, the Third Kingdom and Salmael have an unmissable resemblance with the themes of the Third Semester and what Maruki was planning, parallels so apparent that you would expect someone to at least hint at what happened between January and February at some point.

Instead, there is silence. The themes are loudly there (and I don't know if it's just me, but the Hideout -VT- ost has interesting similarities to Ideal and the Real - End Version -) yet not once, not in the slightest does Maruki ever get mentioned or referenced or hinted at. (01.29.24 EDIT: as I added before, Maruki does get hinted during a conversation that takes place in the Thrid Kingdom... but it's no where near how deeply interwowen Tactica's story is with the ending of vanilla P5. This is what I meant in the following sentence where I say there is a disparity of treatment because there absolutely is.) It's clear to me, given the disparity of treatment, that Tactica's main story doesn't want to contradict Royal in the same way that Strikers didn't, but Persona 5 vanilla is clearly the game you're supposed to have played before starting this one. Which, of course, is also reinforced by Akechi and "Kasumi" being locked behind the DLC. And I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that, if you're a hardcore fan (= most likely to buy Tactica), this probably isn't what you would have wanted from this game.

What Tactica does best

Tactica is a good game for the most part. As I was saying in my introduction, 2 out of the 3 main goals for this game have been not only achieved but aced.

Gameplay-wise, the loop can become quite addicting, especially between the last portion of the First Kingdom and the first half of the Second Kingdom, where imho the story peaks. The development team has done a damn well good job in reducing the structure of a trpg to its core and mixing it with what makes Persona 5... Persona 5. Much like the base game, for example, getting the upper hand through chains of One Mores and All-Out Attacks is basically how you progress through maps. Each Thief has his own Persona + 1 equippable sub-Persona -- even Joker can only use Arsène -- but they made sure to translate each different element into a different mechanic. I adored that, exactly like it happens in the first game, despite the combat being turn-based the characters seem to dance on the battlefield, with each action flowing into the next one as the hype builds up and either Lyn's voice or catchy drums accompany you turn after turn. Don't expect something too complex, as the game is designed to be accessible even to non-strategy players -- and surely I was disappointed by having to play with only 3 characters at a time -- but the fun is there, and to an extent, you can build each character how you most like them through a minimal but very efficient skill tree.

The music is another thing Tactica does very well. By now (Strikers, Royal, and Tactica) it's clear that Konishi favors aggressive guitars over groovy basslines and I didn't mind it one bit, as this became kind of his personal signature. The first portion of the game especially is full of banger hits that get later reprised and remixed as you progress through the Kingdoms. Some of my favorites:

Maxim, like many tracks, has an excellent use of percussions that resemble war drums

Tension, with clear Life Will Change influences

Infiltrate, back at it with the Life Will Change vibes and an exceptional use of strings that resemble horse hooves running on the cobblestones of a medieval city

Master of the Castle, which plays during the Marie bossfight, is an excellent mixture of the Tension theme with the addition of a more aggressive guitar and... bells! Because she's about to get married!

Amusement Park of Trauma, a strong detachment from the general mood of the Second Kingdom that perfectly serves its purpose

Recollection, a melancholic theme that through its notes perfectly sets the mood for what the player is about to go through as soon as they set foot in the Third Kingdom, much like Gentle Madman before it

01.29.24 EDIT: as the beta version of Last Surprise was discovered, I was able to catch a bunch of notes between 0.18 and 0.30 that I am fairly sure are present, rearranged/with guitars only, inside one of Tactica's OSTs too. I just can't seem to find it so I will add the specific one as soon as I spot it lol

Along the new tracks, some very neat rearrangements like Beneath the Mask (which somehow they managed to make it sound even more lo-fi than it already was) and Disquiet make their apperance, as well as a version of Prison Labor.

Also, contrary to what happens in the hellscape of info dumping that is the first hours of Strikers, tutorials are actually paced wonderfully here, and you get to be introduced to each bit of gameplay with little steps, and nothing gets shoved down your throat leaving you with so many information you actually have no idea how to play.

Additionally, the story is quite captivating, especially if you pay attention to what can seem to be minor details. Right from the start, the sheer need to understand what the hell is going on is what drives you forward, and by the end of the First Kingdom and Marie's reveal as Toshiro's fiance, you start to understand that the scope of the entire thing is much more limited and personal -- which is something I appreciated a lot. Toshiro is a good character, his cowardice at the start isn't just a funny trait for the laugh, but a flaw that is deeply connected with his personal history and, much like with Zenkichi and Sophia, the team did a good job in tracing parallels with the other Phantom Thieves in order to quickly build empathy towards him -- with Haru and Futaba being the absolute best matches. The same thing happens with Erina, who shares the rebellious fire of the Phantom Thieves and leads the rebellion against Marie. What I loved about her is her goofiness, I was afraid she would be the nth Strong Female Character -- seeing as Kasumi was very much your Manic Pixie Dream Girl -- instead I found a lady with a sharp tongue and a strong heart, who's deeply loyal but doesn't hesitate to fool around. She's really valid, I admit I wouldn't have bet on her character to be like this but I'm happy they took this direction with her.

So... all is good, right? Why do I say that the game "is good... for the most part"?

Tactica's recycling problem

Fundamentally, and believe me it pains me very much to say this... Tactica doesn't have a lot to say, despite what its developers declared.

The game's themes, characters, morals, and climax are all heavily derivative of themes, characters, morals, and climaxes that have already been more than explored within the various iterations of P5. Past the final portion of the Third Kingdom, the repetitiveness of it all became seriously unbearable. No thing, big or small, gets spared: this is how you find yourself with Toshiro mathematically relating to all the Phantom Thieves, even when it feels forced; how you have the battle against Shadow Toshiro and then Eri that is 1:1 what we saw in Futaba's Palace with the fight against Wakaba; how you have the nth Deity Wished By Mankind that wants to rule over Free Will; how the "Fourth" Kingdom is nothing more than a recycling, reskinning, recoloring of what you already played through the previous Kingdoms -- mobs and bossfights included.

It really does a disservice to the game, the fact that so many of its final portions are stretched out to the point of exhaustion, I imagine only for the sake of justifying the cost of the game with more playtime, something that is deeply wrong, especially if we take into consideration that the game is actually sold at (less) than the current average market price (60€/$, compared to PS4/Switch games being 60-70 and next-gen games being 70-80). It kills the climax that Tactica so painfully had built up to that point, and it made me feel like completing the story was more of a chore I had to do in order to get to the final cutscene (which... is fine, I guess) than something I did with heartfelt conviction.

Moreover, the deeply derivative nature of this game causes more than some issues, character-wise. Because this is a game with the Phantom Thieves... but narratively speaking, they aren't the protagonists: Toshiro and Erina are. This leads to a weird situation where the group, who has by now 2 god killings under their belt, remains stagnant throughout the whole game, as they have nothing to learn or improve about them, and too often they become nothing more than the mask (ah-ah) of themselves, with characters acting just like their archetype -- Yusuke, the starving artist; Morgana, who gets angry when he's called a cat; Ryuji, the dumb guy who's the butt of the joke. Incredibly speaking, the one who feels less like herself is Makoto: in P5 she can be tough and confrontational, sure, but you have to provoke her, first -- she's usually kind and collected, with a sort of mom-friend attitude. Strikers played a bit more into her punk side, and Royal gave us her wonderful Showtimes with Haru and Ryuji... but in Tactica, she's straight-up aggressive and quick to violence, often excessively, often for no reason. I have no idea what happened with her honestly, the day of the wedding in the imaginary vignette she even accuses you, unprompted, of cheating on her. Are the writers Makoto haters?

Anyway. My point is, as much as Toshiro and Erina hit home and do their job as characters, and as much as it's heartwarming to have the whole gang together again... sometimes, especially near the end, it sure feels like everything is just an excuse to have more Phantom Thieves content. Which would not be bad! But it is the moment Royal gets ignored and all the progress and maturity they gained is erased.

Overall, I think Tactica has a great cast and great premises, but the final portion of the story has really been dragged for too long, and the amount of recycling between ideas, assets, plot points, and maps is... not great.

Tactica's mysterious mysteries

There is a whole lot that is never given clarification in this game, and well beyond the realm of plausible fan speculations.

So many things went unexplained or even unaddressed. The Metaverse should by all means be gone at this point -- yet it's still working, and the only comment you get on the matter is "I guess it can't be erased completely" which is fine seeing how it's so tied to the human subconscious but an element so important to the worldbuilding really is treated like Just A Thing That Is Said and never given more consideration. Additionally, it is said that Kingdoms aren't Palaces... but functionally speaking, we explore Toshiro's Palace. There are cognitive versions of his family and acquaintances, there are memories locked inside the maps, there is his Shadow... there is no formal reason for it not to be Toshiro's Palace! Except that they needed to market it like an Entirely Different Thing somehow! On this front, Strikers did a really better job in connecting to the canon worldbuilding of P5.

Another thing that goes entirely unaddressed is how exactly the Phantom Thieves have been summoned inside Toshiro's cognition. The game explains that Shido's calling card was what roused Toshiro from his complacency, and what generated Erina as the spark of his rebellion... but it's never explained how the Thieves got in, especially given that it's explicitly stated that they entered in a different manner than Toshiro, who was kidnapped by Salmael, Persona 4 style. All the weirdness of this new world, Personas not working as usual, the Velvet Room changing form... everything is addressed merely in passing, diverted back to Salmael's doing, or even straight up commented by Lavenza with "I have no explanations for this behavior."

Again, lastly, some things are brought up and never addressed again, like the fact Erina can plant the Flag of Freedom but the Flag itself, as a mechanic, only has relevance in the First Kingdom; or the fact that doors with a projectile on it are used to traverse Kingdoms and are what evoked the Phantom Thieves, but no one will ever explain to you what those are or why the Phantom Thieves don't traverse one back to return to the real world, instead they simply... *fades to white*

But what about the DLC?

The DLC is enjoyable but has, on a smaller scale, the exact same problems the rest of the game has.

Some bits of dialogue and character interactions sent me flying, like the way Joker can tease Akechi in a way he doesn't do with any other character or the fact that whether or not Akechi is a Phantom Thief is treated as a complicated matter, and you can trigger some interesting remarks about the whole situation going on outside of Tactica.

Aside from this, the DLC most than anything else suffers from being set in a pocket of time that needs to be wiped from memory, firstly because these three characters aren't exactly a trio yet and only had one interaction together before this moment yet they act like they're closer than that... and secondly because the whole Guernica situation is a parallel to Kasumi and Sumire's story. So it really hits the wrong way, and it even verges on horror if you have the hindsight, that Akechi, Joker and Violet have to save a girl that lost her sister and is being brainwashed to forget her... while Sumire is still "Kasumi."

I liked the setting and I liked the paint mechanic and I liked how frankly brutal and visceral some scenes are. That is exactly my jam! But I couldn't enjoy them to the fullest because I knew they would have amounted to nothing in the grand scheme of things. The memory wipe solution was in store, of course, I saw that coming, nonetheless I found it deeply unelegant, seeing as they didn't even try to offer an explanation as to why or how the trio had their memory erased.

Also, it makes no sense for Guernica to be active in the real world at that scale if only because there would be no reason for her to never be mentioned anywhere after, and I quote, "pulling a stunt like the ones from the Phantom Thieves."

On a final note, since I mentioned the base game's price... contrary to that, Tactica's DLC isn't worth the 20€/$ you pay it. Not only because it's very short (4-5 hours if you rush, 6-8 if you take some more time to maybe restart some maps or replay some dialogues and gush like I did) but because the experience is overall nothing memorable, and the additional maps aren't enough to cover that. I stand by the fact you shouldn't judge a game's price by its length, but length isn't Repaint Your Heart's sole problem, sadly.

My final thoughts

Overall, I enjoyed playing Tactica (save for the final part) and it gave me some really stellar content, like the fake wedding scenes, Ann's best characterization across the entire series, Erina as a character, and overall a new occasion to spend time with my favorite band of outlaws teens.

I'm glad I had more P5 content... but I still feel I could've gone by with no problems without Tactica. Which is a sad thing to say, but it's true. Because I loved Strikers and I would never want to live without having played that game. Tactica, well... despite me being hyped for it a ton, it made me come to the conclusion that I am done with P5 content, especially if it has to be like this. If I feel nostalgic, I'll just boot my PS5 and replay Royal for the second time. And for everything else, there is fandom.

Thank you for reading this far if you have. You can find me on Twitter, Ao3 and BlueSky!

#persona 5 #persona 5 royal #persona 5 tactica #p5 #p5r #p5t #spoilers #p5t spoilers #p5r spoilers #tactica spoilers #p5 meta #meta-ish at least? #not a review #not fully meta #but a secret third thing #aka my honest thoughts

[emanation-aura]

hi this is a free space to infodump about any of your fics. my ears are open and my eyes are peeled. love your writing

Thank you anon! I love infodumping about my fics but I hate doing it without reason, so this is literally perfect.

Ok, so: more P5R fic this time, but I've actually run out of Palace AUs for the moment so it's something else I was cooking.

It's a rewrite of the Okumura's Palace "Morgana fallout" scene where Ryuji and Morgana get so heated that Morgana runs away, but instead of making Joker a passive observer who just... watches his team fall apart, I gave him some agency (and anger!) to work with. Disclaimer: Akira is really, really rude to Ryuji in this because he's snapping from months of pent-up anger, but I don't mean for it to last and this is not a Ryuji-bashing fic; they make up later.

"Fine then," and he can feel the moment the temperature plummets, knows that the hard-edged voice which he'd taken so much care to soften has finally reared its head. There's nothing he can do about it, though— the anger wells in cracks and bubbles, impossible to ignore. "Let's go on the merits of usefulness, shall we? In that case, I should simply disband the Phantom Thieves, because I can do everything you can." It's too far. It's way too fucking far. He shouldn't be saying this at all, breaking their trust— how could he disband the only thing holding them together, giving their lives meaning and purpose? But there is nothing he can do to stop the venom spilling out of his mouth, the months of pent-up tension and weariness inflicted on him the moment he stepped into Tokyo. [...] “Where do you get off calling Morgana useless?!” Akira cuts it again, unable to stop himself. It skips across his body merrily, this vein of deep-seated anger, intertwining itself with the erratic thump-thump-thump of his heartbeat. “Is that all the Phantom Thieves are to you? Useful or useless?” That manages to cut through the chaos of the room like a knife. In the deadly still aftermath of his words, Akira derives cold satisfaction the way his teammates flinch back from him. It swells in his heart like that, thick and hazy, erupting into the room like poison gas.

There's something incredibly interesting about Akira teetering on that edge of "why can't I do this by myself?". He is a Wildcard/Trickster with huge adaptability due to his range of Personas, so while it would suck to not have his teammates as a safety net, he is theoretically capable of going through the game (at this level, anyway, not so much early on) solo; that's also a little gameplay-story integration with the Joker Solo runs people do.

This, of course, is also incredibly similar to Akechi's own philosophy around teammates, and part of why they mirror each other in so many ways. Speaking of Akechi, though, this is also fundamentally a shuake fic, so:

Akira runs a hand through his hair, grimacing as it comes away sticky with rainwater. He doesn’t dare look at Akechi while he thinks of a reply— it feels too invasive, meeting the detective’s eyes, as if he’ll see through everything Akira is trying so desperately to hide. “Are you alright, Kurusu? Did something happen?” Damn him. Akechi has always been uncannily perceptive, although any person with a half-decent brain could probably tell he’s going through some shit right now. The way the detective’s voice goes soft around the edges, though, something almost compassionate creeping through… “I’m fine, detective,” he replies curtly, hunching further into himself as he turns away from Akechi’s gaze. That compassion is the same poison in Yusuke’s voice, the one that punctured his heart like bullets. “Shouldn’t you be getting home?” “You don’t look fine,” Akechi bites back, sharper. It’s almost a relief as the concern bleeds away from his voice, replaced with something more disapproving and caustic. “Did someone attack you? Are you hurt?” Fuck. Akira resists the urge to bury his head in his knees and tries to breathe. Every cold breath seems to stab him in the lungs, a tip-tap to the rhythm of the rain soaking him through. ...A shadow falls over him. Akira looks up to see Akechi’s umbrella open over him, the detective’s grip on the handle tight with tension. “You’re going to catch a cold if you stay like this,” Akechi says tonelessly. “You should go home, Kurusu.”

Akira runs away to Kichijoji to avoid confronting his friends after (blowing up at them / punching Ryuji in the face / having a traumatic flashback) all in one. I don't want to spoil the rest of the fic but it's shuake, Akechi finds Akira in a vulnerable state, you can fill in the rest of the blanks (though it's not smut).

Something I will share though is that sometimes it's easier to share your burdens with someone you are strangers with. Akechi isn't exactly a stranger to Akira, but they have a connection that is both incredibly personal and also impersonally strange. They act like acquaintances and then rivals in the confidant progression, but there is a spark of recognition in that relationship that is absent from most others: like recognises like, which is why the Shuake relationship is so interesting to explore. They skip every conceivable normal 'milestone' a normal friendship does but still understand each other on a deep level because of their similar backgrounds and experiences.

Here's a part I'm really proud of, though:

He doesn’t have any defenses or smokescreens left to throw up. All Akira can do is avert his gaze and curl his hands tighter around the mug, uncaring of the way it begins to burn him. What can he say? Sorry, I thought you were arresting me? Akechi sighs, and although Akira can’t see his expression, it sounds utterly defeated. “I would appreciate a truthful answer,” he says evenly, although perhaps only Akira is privy to the tightly-controlled bundle of emotions behind that flat neutrality. “If nothing else, for the sake of not repeating this incident. Don’t take me for a fool, Kurusu. Your actions tonight were highly irregular, and I could already work out an answer based on what you told me.” “Then why don’t you?” “I’d rather hear it from you instead,” Akechi shrugs. There is a storm brewing in his red eyes, though, formidable and piercing. “Don’t you hate it when people just assume things about you without asking for your perspective?”

(quick context: Akira had a traumatic reaction to Akechi trying to haul him to his feet)

This is something they share deeply. Of course, it's obvious with Akira because he is the subject of so many bad 'delinquent' rumours in Shujin, subject to literally everyone who knows about his criminal record assuming things about him before they meet him, up to and including Sojiro. Akechi's is less obvious but just as intense: it's two-fold, coming from both his status as an orphaned bastard child and as a Detective Prince. He accrues the default social reaction of pity or praise respectively due to the assumptions forced on him by society; for an orphan it's helplessness, stupidity, and being unloveable, and as the Detective Prince it's the assumption that he has his life under control with everything handled. In this way they are both people who have had the burden of societal expectations forced upon them.

One last snippet to end this rambling off:

“What’s it to you?” Akira finally manages, averting his gaze. The mug beneath his fingers has finally cooled to a reasonable temperature, once again allowing the chill to spread along his fingertips, ice freezing over slowly in his veins. What is Akira’s deepest weaknesses and insecurities, to Akechi? Why is he sitting in Akechi’s living room at three in the morning, allowing the detective to dissect his psyche? Akechi goes silent. When he speaks, he’s back to the placid TV mask again, his idle fingers and tapping foot curiously still. “I wasn’t aware it was anything, Kurusu-kun. I saw you in trouble, so I helped you. Is there anything more to it than that?” I saw you in trouble, so I helped you. Akira, coming between the drunken man and the woman he was accosting. Watching Ryuji about to be executed by Kamoshida. Akechi has just cited the motive of the Phantom Thieves. Or, well, the motive before the fame and popularity got to their heads. Something dizzying jolts through his chest— is this how they felt? Thinks of Kawakami’s miserable second job, Hifumi’s controlling mother, Chihaya preyed on by a cult. Changing their hearts. Is this how they felt, being helped?

This is so dear to me because I interpret things to see that Akechi is not heartless. He is, obviously, a serial killer and assassin working for a fascist politician/father for his own ends, but that doesn't mean he has completely ditched all his values.

This is where I diverge from canon a bit. After the Akechi Black Mask fight, Futaba says: "but you didn't trust anyone. So you got one [Persona] for your lies, and one for your hate." This implies that Robin Hood stems from the lie of justice within Akechi's own heart and was never genuine— yet in the 'Proof of Justice' OVA in the anime as well as Akechi Rank 5, Akechi is depicted idolising heroes and using a laser gun (his weapon in both Metaverse forms) from a young age, before his mother died. Robin Hood represents the quintessential 'steal from the rich, give to the poor' kind of underdog justice that would fit the Thieves perfectly if he didn't turn out to be traitor, but we're also given hints that this is the original Akechi before he was tainted by the world; his version of 'justice' that was true even if it was simultaneously used as a lie.

Think of it like... method acting. Goro's Robin Hood, and by extension, "I saw you in trouble, so I helped you" justification is an act, because he is putting on a show of a courteous gentleman to fit with his public image. But that act stems from a genuine desire for justice and righteousness in his heart that never quite died.

This is also multiplied 10x by the fact that it's Akira whom Goro is trying to help and they have that aforementioned unique relationship that is impossible for me to define in a single post.

Actually I lied, this is the snippet I want to finish on: I wanted this continuity to carry into Royal's Third Semester so I wrote an extended interaction of their 'reunion' in January.

“I need to know what happened now between then,” Goro asks curtly, done with dancing around the topic. “Did you take down Shido? What happened after?” So Kurusu explains. “Yes, we took down Shido,” in a voice that bears an unmistakable hint of pain. He shelters it well, but it’s still recognisable to Goro’s trained ears— after all, doesn’t it sound awfully familiar to that same wavering tone a soaked Kurusu had used outside of the billiards bar in Kichijoji in November, shrinking away from his touch like it might burn him? The memory slams itself into Goro in a way he doesn’t know what to do with, so he shelves it and listens to the absolutely insane explanation of how Akira shot god on Christmas Day.

Thanks so much for the interest in my fic because god I have so many thoughts to expunge that wouldn't fit in authors notes! This one isn't published and it's literally just saved on my computer as 'P5R fic', so if people had fun title recommendations (preferably lifted from irl literature because that's my style) feel free to send them in.

#persona 5 #persona 5 royal #shuake #goro akechi #persona 5 joker #akira kurusu #fic writing #fic meta

[smolstarthief]

Another Maruki analysis: His literal Mask

I kinda wanted to do an analysis on his literal mask since this was a realization that hit me really. Now I agree that it looks absolutely silly and I wonder what Atlus was thinking with his overall outfit but... I can't help but think of something here...

Now "Masks," both literally and figuratively, play a primary role in P5 in regards to its characters. They hide who they really are because of either pressure to meet societal expectations, fear (Ex: rejection), dealing with various forms of abuse, and of course trauma. Especially as way of coping with said trauma. It is also a thing in Psychology known as, "masking" which is basically the description I just gave. Masking is basically, as an example, someone performing in a way that it is considered, "acceptable." But it can be at the expense of expressing who they really are, hiding their true selves. It's never fun at all as someone who deals with this on occasion and can even hurt the individual deep down. It can even worsen their mental state as well.

I always feel bad for those that had to go through it for one reason or another. But back on topic. When the MCs awaken their Personas, they literally tear their own masks off (with an exception or two). It's framed as painful but then liberating. They feel free and are done with all the bs they had to deal with. Each mask also has a unique design for every Thief and it's all unique to them and even symbolic of either their true selves or even just overall personality.

So, what about Maruki? While it does look ridiculous... As I've mentioned in a previous post, it almost resembles a shield. A large one at that. Now you could argue Makoto's does as well but it's short and is more like a knight. It also reflects her more tough personality. In Maruki's case though... It covers his whole head and top part of his face (minus his eyes 'cause he needs to see somehow). I also mentioned that it's ironic that "Throw Away Your Mask" is basically his thought process and mental state and yet he is hiding behind his own mask.

Now the "shield" thing can be a double meaning: He doesn't want to hurt the Thieves at all and can be considered a pacifist unless pushed and even while fighting he tries to reason with them and mostly uses Azathoth/Adam. But at the same time, it can also be his own mental defenses coming to the surface. He's hiding behind a metaphorical shield and running away from everything. The truth, his true feelings, his trauma, everything. He gives a calm and serene/gentle demeanor ("Gentle Madman") which is genuine but also puts up his defenses. Even when everything around him is falling apart, he refuses to believe that "his way" was ultimately wrong and harmful even when he knows or realizes it.

Then it gets damaged, and Adam is destroyed which is when he starts to fully break. His barrier is falling apart. He starts to show more of how he really feels. He has awareness and is regaining it at the same time and the cracks remain.

Then he fully removes it and later his godhood outfit changes to his white attire albeit torn up, damaged, and dirty. He's completely vulnerable. No barriers... No mask.

He's not hiding anymore, and we see who he really is: A sad, traumatized, and broken man who gave up everything for a dream that was ultimately not gonna help anyone... Not even himself. He wanted to do good so badly but went too far and about nearly lost himself in the process. It was unhealthy and self-destructive... Like the story of Icarus, hubris got the better of him and flew too close to the sun. All because of things that were out of his control and led to him making impulsive and downright harmful decisions. It's being human and understandable. But he still needed to be stopped, otherwise... Things will turn out for the worse for everyone, including him. Now I wonder what other character this can remind people of...?

So, joking and small fandom jab aside, a TL;DR version: Maruki's mask can represent a barrier he put up for himself to hide and run from it all and once it cracks and it's fully taken off, he shows his true feelings, coming to terms with himself and the truth. It's only then he starts to take steps towards healing and starting over on his own two feet. No hiding, no mask, no barrier. Just him and whatever reality will throw at him, and he'll try his damndest to get better and even redeem himself.

#persona 5 #p5 #persona 5 royal #p5r #starchild rambles #long post #meta #p5r maruki #p5r spoilers #dr maruki #takuto maruki #persona 5 maruki #crossposted from twitter #character analysis #analysis

[pinkelotjeart]

Still not over the fact that someone on Twitter said that Akechi wasn’t gay, their only argument was; royal isn’t canon.

Akechi is so gay in royal, that the only way that he could be perceived as straight is if it wasn’t canon. There is no hetero explanation for royal!akechi so this dude just choose to completely ignore it lol.

Which btw, royal IS canon

#persona 5 #persona 5 royal #goro akechi #shuake #fandom meta

[npd-goro-akechi]

Much shorter post tonight because I have like 5 other essays about Akechi in the making. I often wonder what the connotations of him, as the black mask, having a helmet are, rather than just a normal mask - especially since it doesn't disappear or is removed even while summoning his persona. Personally, I always viewed it like this: his anger and hatred is there to protect him when everything else failed to. A helmet is meant for protection, and I think thats what I think this persona is for. Any vulnerability can be hidden and buried and crushed under all of that hate. Anger is easier and more efficient than sadness and self-pity. It's so much easier to lay the blame at the feet of the world then to ever admit you may be the problem, or, in Akechi's case, lay all of your problems at the feet of one man and convince yourself that dealing with him will remove all your issues. I also like the idea of him not being able to remove it - his anger is such an embedded part of him that there is no taking it from him. There is no Akechi without that hatred and spite. (Dr. Maruki take notes.)

#if anyone else has any other ideas please share with the class these are just my thoughts afterall #actually one of the 5 essays relates to that last sentence maybe i should get back to writing #goro akechi #persona 5 #persona 5 royal #p5r #p5 meta #this guy makes me so normal can you guys tell #of course you can you all feel the same

[composeregg]

Thinking about any scenario where giving Akechi info leads to crime being solved without a change of heart. Like. In the anime he gets Futaba's uncle legally instead of futaba and joker going on a family bonding metaverse trip (complicated thoughts abt that are for not this post)

Or fics where he handles Kamoshida or something.

This is!!! Actually another example of the larger problem!!!!

If society is so fucked up (and it is) that those who are powerless cannot hope to escape their own abuse, then... this becomes a display of random luck, happenstance, knowing the right person, while others suffer without any prince charming to swoop in and save them.

This becomes "this guys likes you enough to take on this case" and is a further indictment against the system that allows this. It's further proof that when you don't have that, you DO turn to things like a change of heart if you have the means!

Even if Akechi were able to solve all the cases via just detective work (he most certainly isn’t, those cases are of people protected by the very institution he works for), then that highlights the fact that there are others who don't have this privilege.

This is its own type of show of power. Its own type of corruption, that nothing will be done unless you happen to be on good terms with someone who can wield that power

#not even getting into akechis weird relationship with HAVING this sort of power #he can do some stuff! he could probably help in some ways at the mementos target level #though that could so easily be seen as a waste of resources or not important enough or nothing actually illegal has happened. #but AKECHI hasnt had a legal way to get back at abusers either!!! #not these people in power! #he cant touch kaneshiro without losing everything #EVERYTHING he has worked for #even through black mask methods he cant go after people protected by shido too noticeably???? #they know the signs of a cognitive death! #p5 #goro akechi #p5 meta #crow p5 #persona 5 #persona 5 royal #persona 5 meta #egg speaks #p5r

[huesofvioletandpurple]

you are Sumire Yoshizawa and you can’t put your hair in a ponytail without shaking. your memories are hazy and the knife is in your hands and you try not to cry over chopped vegetables because you’re supposed to be good at this but you haven’t been for a year. you want to try a new routine but instinct makes your muscles become someone else’s and you’re sorry and you’ll try to be yourself but you’re scared to admit you don’t remember who you are. who you were. who you’re supposed to be.

you are Sumire Yoshizawa but you put the wrong name on your tests for months and you avoid cabs for longer after what your friend tells you and you’re entirely justified but a part of your brain says you’re entirely at fault and you can’t help but be very, very sorry for that.

#p5r #persona 5 royal #sumire yoshizawa #meta #anyways. you’ll never guess what character I’ve been thinking about lately #persona #p5 #nooty lore #p5r spoilers #persona 5 royal spoilers #ask to tag #I think this warrants a #fanfic #tag. but

[specterthief]

i think the difference is a bit more complicated, actually – you can infer from shido's palace that he does in some way believe he's doing "what's best" for japan, as he sees his ark as the only thing standing in a ruined world (and rambles about how he's the only one who can steer this country), but shido is. you know. a megalomaniacal far-right extremist and his idea of "what's best" is everyone in his in-group being taken care of while the "vermin" beneath him are crushed to achieve what he wants for the people he's decided are worthy of his attention. only the people who follow his ideology are human to him and everyone else is trash to be sacrificed to achieve his vision for the country.

meanwhile maruki wants everyone in his perfect world with him, but this isn't because he's actually any more welcoming of dissent – rather than people outside his "in-group" being taken advantage of, he simply forces everyone to comply with his ideology. there is no "out-group" because anyone who would cause dissent is assimilated.

while he is coming from a place of altruism, yes, it's no less controlling than shido, and in a way it's more so; shido isn't concerned with the thoughts of people who aren't in his in-group, they're rats that are literally beneath his notice. maruki's kindness is extended to everyone, but only as long as everyone's "happiness" is exactly as he decides it to be. as maruki himself describes it, it's the difference between authoritarianism and totalitarianism:

in his palace there's even all the people in headsets being "treated" before they're allowed into eden

because unlike a human totalitarian leader, maruki doesn't have to try and quell dissent through normal means of control – he can literally control the thoughts of everyone in his utopia.

#sakurabomb #persona 5 royal #takuto maruki #meta #third semester brainrot #fandom: persona #that classroom question drives me insane #man