#pretty much. i think that Mace had no choice but i don't think he'd agree with that. i think he'd struggle with having killed Jango and

[notthestarwar]

Snippet from: When is a monster not a monster? Oh, when you love it. Chapter 5

Ghost Mace speaks to past Jaster (alive) and tells him what he knows of Jango's future, in the life he lived.

Mace's brow stiffened. "When we realised what we had done, we tried to find him but we could not."

"We tried to find the True Mandolorian's but the survivors had fled in all directions. We did try and see justice done, there was an overhaul of our internal mission preparation process. We changed our training. Dooku left the order as did his apprentice."

"None of it could make up for what we did. Years after the fact, I learnt that Jango was sold in to slavery by the governor. It took him years to escape. I learnt of the weight of what we had done in helping end the True Mandolorian's. In leaving Death Watch unchecked."

He meets Jaster's eyes. "We are here to discuss why we haunt Jango, but it would be remiss of me to not tell you that your son has haunted me every single day since the day I left on a mission to retrieve him; to attempt to offer reparations for what my peoples neglect brought down on him, and came home empty handed."

" We thought him dead, but I did not forget him. From that day, I've carried the weight of what we did to him. I have often thought of him over the years." Mace shook his head.

"You hold no blame here, but we just might."

And isn't that a thing. His son haunting a Jedi even before that Jedi might haunt him.

Jango is tangled up in something here far beyond Jaster's reckoning.

Mace is laying out the constituent parts that when put together, make Jango in to the man that is responsible for the death of every single person standing in that warehouse. Jaster isn't sure where that leaves him, because once he's done hearing this story, in the years that lay ahead of them yet, every single one of these horrible pieces is going to fall in to place. Tragedy after Tragedy ready to be pasted and slapped on to the boy he loves, his son, in order to make him in to the man that did this.

How the hell can Jaster stand by and let that happen?

There are no rules that apply to Jaster, not anymore. He doesn't care about morality or the ethics of fucking with a future that's apparently already happened. He has no care for his own code, not now. None of it matters.

Jaster is Jango's buir, before all else. He has been from the day he stepped in to a smoldering farmhouse and against the odds saw signs of life dancing across his HUD. The Ka'ra gave him Jango and by god, it can stand back while he brings his son back from the abyss.

Mace is watching him. "Jaster, you had no hand in making Jango Fett the man he became at the end. You did not abandon him, you were taken from him. I need you to know this. You should know that none of this was your fault. "

Jaster doesn't care. It doesn't matter if its his fault or not, he is responsible all the same; because he wants to be. He didn't fall in to parenthood, he walked in to it willingly. For Jango, there is no monster that Jaster will not face.

The ka'ra has given him one last gift. The opportunity to see Jango's life after Jaster, and a few precious years in which to try and change them. It may not be in Jaster's power to save his son from himself but by god, he'll die trying.

He looks at the Jedi.  "Tell me the rest."

Some of my thoughts below the cut

Some of my thoughts (because clearly rambling in the comments hasn't been enough for me lol)

I had a lot of fun with this one. I've written about ghosts before but with this one, I went at it from another angle. In this au, ghosts aren't bound by linear time. If you do something that leaves a ghost tied to your soul, they are tied to you in the past as well as the future. Jango and Jaster are both Force Sensitive (tho with a Mando understanding of it. They call it 'star touched') and so can see ghosts.

In this fic, moving in with Jaster sets Jango on the path that brings him to the prequels. Once he's on that path, the ghosts that'll be tied to him in his future, can move freely along the timeline, with each of them pulled to a particular version of Jango. Jango will obviously be responsible for the deaths of quite a few people, there are his bounties, the Jedi and the clones and so on; but when the first ghost appears he's just a kid. The story deals with Jaster coming to terms with the fact that his kid, who he loves beyond reason, even if he stumbled upon him quite by accident, one day becomes the person that will make all these ghosts.

At first there's only one ghost in their time, but Jaster can't let it go (tho he knows he should), he needs to know what happens. So he keeps asking until she admits that she isn't the only ghost and that they are tied to Jango as he's responsible for their deaths. Then, he keeps pushing until she introduces him to the others. She gathers them in a warehouse (so Jango doesn't see) and takes Jaster there.

In the part of the story this snippet is from, Jaster has just been confronted with an excessive number of people (including children) who are all tied to Jango as he's responsible for their deaths. He's had a (understandable) freak out, and ghost Mace has taken him aside and offered to tell him what he knows of Jango's future, and how it led to the death of so many people.

What follows is a buddy up adventure between Mace and Jaster (unlikely duo) in which Jaster tries to come to terms with what Mace has told him, and the horrible events that led to Jango becoming the man that would one day be responsible for all these ghosts. While he tries to save Jango from himself, long before he needs saving.

The idea behind the fic is the inevitability of a tragedy. There's a feeling when you're watching a tragedy play out, that it's all so unnecessary, that it didn't need to happen, but you only know that because as the audience you know that they are in a tragedy, the characters don't know. So what if a character did know? Jaster is served advance notice, will having that allow him to save Jango, or will it just feed in to the fulfillment of this prophetic future?

I wanted to explore the fact that there's only so much one particular character can do, in trying to prevent the end another is headed towards and also, the power of familial love, even when it's found somewhere unexpected. Jaster isn't Jango's blood family, he didn't even know him till he was an older child, which I think makes his love for Jango in spite of knowing what he will become, all the more powerful. The glimpse of Jango's future is disgusting to Jaster, it goes against all he believes in, but its Jango so he can't hate him for it, he loves him too much and so, he's determined to save him from himself. He's willing to do the impossible.

Then there's Mace: so in this au, Mace is sent out shortly after Galidraan, when it becomes clear to the order that they've made a mistake, to find the survivor they left in the hands of the Governor, and to right a wrong. He isn't successful, he looks everywhere but he can't find him, and in the end the order write him off as dead. In this au, Jango was 18 on Galidraan and what Mace sees as his failure to save someone that was little more as a child, and suffered so greatly thanks to what the order see as their own neglect, haunts him for the rest of his career.

Its that idea of 'the one case you couldn't close'. It's at the start of his career and he goes on to do amazing things, Mace is peak Jedi, he invents a new form, he's one of the youngest Jedi to be elected to the council, he ends up heading that council, but he is still human (or near human lol sw complicates everything. he's 100% human in a fallible/emotional/sapient sense) I think that as a Master Jedi he's very aware of his own weaknesses, and he tries to work through it, he talks to it with other Jedi, and he certainly doesn't let it affect his judgement, but he can't forget it all the same.

So it's this version of Mace that ended up meeting Jango in the arena. Which I think adds such an interesting angle.

#Jaster Mereel #Mace #I've been thinking about this one (and a part of chapter 7 which i might post as another snippet) #cause i saw a poll talking about who was responsible for Jango's death and I've got a lot of opinions about that #that can not be contained by a poll lol. it's something i explored in this fic #pretty much. i think that Mace had no choice but i don't think he'd agree with that. i think he'd struggle with having killed Jango and #how he killed him. (decapitation. a particularly violent move. which i don't think he had a choice in. but yeah think he'd struggle) #i think that Jango pretty much ensured his own end and was too intelligent to not realise he was doing that so i think that was a #self hatred/survivors guilt/'i have lived past my end' kind of thing #i also think that Jango was only the person that always would have brought death upon himself like that because his past made him so #and i think his past was bad enough to make him that because it suited the greater narrative to have him end up like that #it suited palps ends pretty much. did palps know he was doing that or did the universe just work in his favour? who knows. #still worked out well for him #the poll got me thinking about Mace which got me thinking about this fic but writing about the fic has me thinking about this fic again #kinda tempted to go through it again and give it a bit of a face lift. old once over. shine it up a bit #I've always hated that it's 17 chapters tbh. want it to be 15 or 20. i don't think I'll address that this time tho. #might just try an edit however #has this???? no i won't say it. not to curse it but... the editing/ read back block may... be shifting. possibly. #considering an edit hadn't seemed so possible in a while. #there are so many things i need to look over once i can lol I've posted things still in draft state #that's cool tho. no problem. not thinking about that just thinking about how nice it would be to give this old thing a shine #Mace is so ready here to absorb all the blame for everything on the order (and by extension him) but its really not on them

[antianakin]

@theneutralmime

Okay, so the first question I think you're asking is whether I believe Obi-Wan being accused of struggling a lot with attachments comes from his actions on Mustafar in ROTS or whether it comes from his choices about what he tells Luke regarding Vader during the OT.

Personally, I'd probably say it's the Mustafar scene, perhaps combined with some of the other scenes he has in ROTS with Anakin. I've had someone argue with me that Obi-Wan saying he's "on Anakin's side" when they're discussing the Council not making Anakin a Master means that Obi-Wan is saying he believes Anakin SHOULD be a Master and that the Council is being unreasonable, and I've seen people accuse Obi-Wan of being soft on Anakin specifically because of the way he acts in ROTS and the way he defends Anakin to Mace and Yoda.

I don't really agree with EITHER of these interpretations, I think Obi-Wan saying he's on Anakin's side just means that he understands what Anakin is feeling and that just because he (and the Council) are frustrated with this latest decision doesn't mean that they're actively working AGAINST Anakin for any reason. And I think that Obi-Wan is plenty hard on Anakin in both AOTC and during early TCW seasons and that his defense of Anakin and softer attitude in ROTS is an indication that Obi-Wan is choosing to have FAITH in Anakin and that Anakin will ultimately make the right choice which is an indication of growth from his more helicopter parent style in AOTC, but he still recognizes that Anakin has flaws and is making mistakes.

It also doesn't help that the Matthew Stover ROTS novelization has Obi-Wan literally admit that he'd save Anakin at any cost and condemn the Jedi for asking Anakin to spy on Palpatine, saying that he doesn't think Anakin SHOULD trust them again after that (one of those reasons I'm not super interested in reading the book, regardless of how pretty its prose is).

So yeah, I think that most of the accusations about Obi-Wan being attached to Anakin come via ROTS (film and novelization). That interpretation of them then gets APPLIED to the scene in the OT where he is telling Luke he needs to prepare for the possibility that he might have to kill Anakin. This is where you get the interpretation that Obi-Wan recognizes that he was too attached to Anakin to kill him and that Luke cannot make his same mistake. But the root of it I think comes from ROTS, not ROTJ.

The second question you are asking me is, in an AU version of ROTS where Yoda DOES manage to kill Palpatine and Obi-Wan knows it, would he actually kill Anakin. And I still think the answer is no. It's actually even MORE likely to me that he wouldn't because now he KNOWS no one's coming to save Anakin, he KNOWS Anakin is absolutely 100% going to die from his injuries here, so he really has no motivation to go for a mercy kill any more than he did before. It's still going to be insanely painful for him to do even that much, it's still going to feel basically impossible to kill someone he loves, and now that Anakin is unarmed and refusing to ASK for mercy, it is still murder to make that final blow (which is made even worse if Obi-Wan knows that he doesn't HAVE to because Palpatine's already dead). I think the only way I could see Obi-Wan going for a mercy kill is if the opposite were true and he DID know that Yoda failed and that Palpatine was on his way. Because NOW he has a motivation to try to keep Palpatine from being able to save Anakin and keep at least ONE Sith from continuing to live and wreak havoc on the galaxy. Of course then, whether you'd consider it a MERCY kill or not is kind-of questionable. He isn't really doing it for Anakin's sake, it's not truly mercy that's forcing his hand here. It's a quicker death for Anakin, which is abstractly merciful, but Obi-Wan is killing him for the sake of the galaxy at large, not for Anakin himself.

Finally, while I agree that Mace would've killed Palpatine had Anakin not shown up to stop him, I don't consider it a waste of time in the narrative. This scene IS the narrative, this is literally the whole climax of the entire trilogy, what everything we've seen so far has to been leading towards. THIS is where Anakin chooses to be Darth Vader, THIS is where he betrays the Jedi, THIS is where the Republic falls. Without this scene and Anakin's reaction, there IS NO narrative. Anakin making this choice in this scene IS THE WHOLE NARRATIVE. That's not a waste of time. And if we're speaking more from an in-universe perspective, it's not like Mace stops doing what he's doing to talk to Anakin, either, he's still blocking the lightning the entire time and reflecting it back at Palpatine and as soon as he has the opportunity, he goes for the killing blow. So he's not wasting time at all, this arguably would've taken the exact same amount of time if Anakin hadn't shown up.

#star wars #obi-wan kenobi #revenge of the sith #anakin critical #anakin skywalker critical #mace windu

[gffa]

I feel like a lot of star wars fans (and writers, sometimes) get hung up on the whole "only Yoda and obi-wan can be alive during a new hope" and I get it, but also thats not the POINT. A few Jedi still being alive during a new hope, but with no Jedi order, not being able to practice the force or Jedi philosophy, not being able to help the galaxy as a Jedi...like the Jedi, the Jedi Order, are dead, and there is no erasing the fact that the community that was the Jedi will never come back or it could have if not for disney. So I don't really care if Ahsoka is not technically a Jedi so that's why she can live but kanan has to die because he arbitrarily didn't leave the order. (But really this is just my long-winded way of saying where is my post ROTS mace windu show.)

I think a lot comes down to the question of, "Where are those Jedi, if we're not seeing them during A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back?" And then the follow-up question to that: "Are they still Jedi if they're not helping others?" There's certainly paths that can be taken! Yoda himself, for example, has a reason to be hidden away on Dagobah, it's absolutely possible that there are other Jedi out there who are helping people in ways that would keep them from the Rebellion and from Luke. That's why Obi-Wan isn't around in the Rebellion as well, because he had a purpose while he was on Tatooine, one that couldn't be forgone for anything. Ahsoka is around, but she feels that she cannot go back on that path (because Anakin stole it from her when he helped murder the Jedi, that she no longer had the chance or the choice to return home) and thus isn't the right teacher for Luke and something probably tells her that his path isn't meant to be walked side by side with her. In contrast, Kanan was right there in the midst of the Rebellion and he had rededicated himself to the path of the Jedi, to teaching as a Jedi, if he had been around when Luke came up, of course they would have found each other. Kanan had put his issues with being a teacher to rest, he would have helped Luke. Same for Ezra, if he'd been around, of course he would have passed on what he knew. For me, it's not that Kanan had to die or Ezra had to leave or what have you, it's in answering the question: "What prevents them from being there to help Luke?" and that's my biggest concern with a Mace Windu storyline post-Jedi genocide. What would prevent him from reaching out to Luke and helping him? Because you have to convince me of that if you're going to convince me that he was around in that time. Or, if he doesn't survive up to that point, how do you convince me that Mace Windu wasn't a far more infamous figure in the Rebellion, because Mace Windu is a leader and an incredible Jedi, I don't think I could buy that he wouldn't be out there fighting unless something really important was holding him back, like it did with Yoda and Obi-Wan. (As I say this, I am 100% ready to be convinced of a post-ROTS Mace Windu storyline, it just has to be consistent with who the character is and what he would do in such a galaxy.) Even without their community, the Jedi are still the Jedi, they're still teachers at heart, they're still caring people who want to help others, and I think that drives a lot of the "there can't be many Jedi around by the time of ANH because they would go help Luke and teach him what they could" feeling for me. But also I do think thematically it's important that the Jedi are pretty much all dead by the time of ROTJ, that it has to come down to Luke and Anakin against Palpatine, that Luke is the return of the Jedi to the galaxy, that they have to be gone for Luke to be their return, not just a strong group of Force users, but that the Jedi as a concept and a community and a culture are returning. Because of Luke. I think we mostly agree in that some people get too hung up on the set in stone idea that only Obi-Wan and Yoda can be around, because I think there's more wiggle room to tell other Jedi stories, but I also think anything we come up with shouldn't overwrite that the OT is the Jedi's most desperate hour, that Luke and Leia are their last hopes, that they're down to the wire, that there aren't any reasonable to see options beyond this, that this one is for all the marbles, etc. Everything Yoda and Obi-Wan sacrificed for them is because they were the last candles of light in the galaxy that had a chance of saving everyone and everything, it has to come down to Luke Skywalker on that second Death Star, and if there are other Jedi running around, they have to serve that heart of the story imo!

#jedi order #meta