#tros wank

[frumfrumfroo]

TROS and its aftermath proved that Rian (and Carrie, since she also worked on the TLJ script) were the only ones working on the Sequel films who cared about Rey as a character and wanted her to both have a good character arc and stand on her own apart from being a fan insert for the legacy characters.

They're the only ones who even thought about her as a character. No one else asked any of the questions that should have been the absolute day one, blank page, first meeting questions to have about your alleged protagonist. I know I've ranted about it at length many times, but it still beggars belief. Not only did they not have answers, they didn't even ask the questions.

JJ has a history of not seeming to understand the concept of a character arc or the narrative needing to earn things, so maybe it's ultimately unsurprising this wasn't something DLF considered important, but I remain staggered by this level of basic incompetence.

#salt #a tros ity #rey #a protagonist shaped void filled with lineage wank

[him-e]

I wonder if Rose was sidelined, not just as a capitulation to racists (And because CT and JJ are racist themselves for doing it at all) but because JJ is incapable of writing anything that isn’t his own character and unwilling to adapt to any other creator’s decision, and CT had no interest in anything except his bad Luke/Leia fic. Because JJ reset *everything* to a TFA status quo, so I wonder if his petty ego of only wanting to work with his own OCs had a hand in Rose’s erasure too

IMO Rose wasn’t sidelined because she wasn’t JJ’s original character, but because she’s a character he would have never conceived in the first place. JJ wanted the trio to be The Beautiful White Girl And The Two Good Boys Who Just Adore Her (aka every tropetown trio in any fantasy or action blockbuster ever), and Rose has no place in this ideal dynamic. A quartet with TWO WOMEN AROUND THE SAME AGE WHO COULD BE FRIENDS? Ridiculous, inconceivable, blasphemy. Rey going the jedi way as she did in TLJ and the trio being Rose/Finn/Poe? bUT thE AUdIenCe waNts To seE rEy INTEracT WiTH HEr freNdZ!11!!1

Also, Rose could not be as easily reduced to Rey’s lapdog as Finn and Poe could, so in JJ’s book she was a difficult character to handle. A character whose mere existence would obligate him to write Finn as his own person with his own arc and individual romantic trajectory rather than as Supporting Nice Guy in Rey’s. So, contrary to my post-TLJ deluded assumptions, I think JJ was always going to reduce Rose’s role, backlash or not. It just fits with the way he approached writing TROS as a seamless continuation of the ideas he planted in TFA with only minimal and perfunctory acknowledgement of what happened in TLJ.

But I’m also equally convinced that the racist backlash coming especially from the *old guard* of the fandom, aka adult white american men, aka the only demographic that matters to them, was the ultimate decisive factor that led to her sidelining. If Rose and Finnrose had been fan faves, JJ, being the crowd-pleasing hoe he is, would have probably made an effort to make it work even if it’s not up his alley. But given this dumpster fire of a fandom hated her, he just had the perfect excuse to relegate her role to a couple of cameos.

What I don’t get is how he, or anyone at Disney, didn’t realize how this would look, but honestly? I don’t think they cared. I think they thought the shitload of money TROS would make and the audience’s thunderous applause were all they needed to legitimize every shitty decision in hindsight. Well, turns out TROS made a lot less money than anticipated, and is currently ranking lower than The Phantom Menace on Rotten Tomatoes. Their arrogance and lack of artistic integrity served them well, didn’t it.

#anon #asks #rose tico #tros criticism #tros wank #sw wank #sw asks #sw criticism #sw for ts

[pacificwanderer]

A while back someone asked Matt Martin why things were seemingly leading towards Ben’s survival in the pre-TROS supplemental materials. He replied that supplemental materials aren’t there to foreshadow anything. So I guess Star Wars books and comics are essentially a pointless cash grab tactic because the films can show whatever the hell they want. Way to go, Lucasfilm. Oh well, at least now we know not to get emotionally invested in anything that isn’t shown on screen.

Hey Nonnie,

Yeah. I feel bad for Matt. He’s trying lol and he’s not been given much to work with (and didn’t work on TRoS). I appreciate his honestly. Works as a good reminder to keep my money and my time to myself. Though, to be fair to Matt, I do think he’s not super into what TRoS gave the story either, but there’s not much he can do because he’s getting paid by LF, so like impossible to shittalk your job on a public platform if you’re interested in keeping it. But that’s also not my problem because he definitey doesn’t have to use a personal twitter to talk about SW if he doesn’t want to.

Also, lol. They might not have been there to foreshadow anything after TRoS, but before they were definitely thematic ties to the greater universe. That was the whole fucking point of the story group! But whatever. JJ and Bob got their pew pew explosion movie and ended up with more controversy because of it, so they can eat shit lol.

Anyway, I’m just gonna spend my time in fandom and with franchises that give me what I want, because they are out there. Life’s short and I’m not wasting it on mediocre storytelling that actively works to keep me out of the fandom (which, really, has been how I’ve felt about being a SW fan since I was a kid. Until Reylo, I did not feel welcome and I still don’t in the greater fandom).

Follow your bliss and spend time and energy whatever makes you the happiest! Cheers!

#tros negativity #tros wank #asks and answers #anonymous asks #ask pacificwanderer #Anonymous

[skywailer]

me, watching DLF project the most destructive narrative possible: you’re not doing this. The effort alone would kill you.

DLF:

#honestly why is this.... #its april #a p r i l #please let us rest #jfc #sw negativity #tros wank

[intersex-ionality]

So you like Star Wars? Do you have any favourite Star Wars media? I do not know if I lean more towards Star Wars or Star Trek, I like them both very much. Have you seen any of the Mandolorian? I haven’t seen the polarizing Last Jedi, Solo or the new Rise of Skywalker you mentioned. What do you think of the latest trilogy? I read lots of spoilers for the movies I didn’t see. I can see why some of movies appealed to some and not others depending on the movie. Different sides. Might see them

The animated TV series are my preferred star wars media, with Clone Wars being my #1 and Rebels being my #2. I’ve never played any of the video games that attach themselves to the themes and canons presented by the TV shows, but I do know they exist. I just don’t… do a lot of video games. I need things that have very simple interfaces, forgiving combat, few or no quick-time events, and very simple or no puzzles. Star Wars games firmly do not fit that bill, even though many of them are single-player, story-driven games which is also something I love.

I haven’t seen Mandalorian yet, which I recognize is a travesty because I love both Star Wars and westerns, and it’s a Star Wars western, but also… TV shows are a lot for me, and live-action TV shows are especially a lot because it’s many many hours of media to wade through, most of it requiring me to gauge people’s body language without the exaggerated trappings of animation. It’s hard! I’ll get there, but maybe not for another few months yet.

As far as the films, my order of preference is:

The Last Jedi

Clone Wars - Animated

Rogue One

Clone Wars - Live Action

A New Hope

The Force Awakens

Return of the Jedi

Empire Strikes Back

Revenge of the Sith

Phantom Menace

Rise of Skywalker

I’m a firm believer in calling one-star wars film a lost cause. When I was very young, I called Empire Strikes Back the lost cause, because I haaaated it. It was so SAD and it ended on so many CLIFFHANGERS and I just hated that. In my young adulthood, I called Phantom Menace the lost cause, because I don’t like the canons it introduces, the implications it raises then forgets, the editing or the directing (though, as a kid, I actually really liked it: it was flashy, it had lots of really easy to understand visual gags and one liners, a child my age was the star, etc and so forth).

But congratulations to TPM, because as of a week ago, it’s back in the running. Rise of Skywalker is my new write-off.

I know it’s a bit of an “unpopular opinion” in major star wars circles–though a very popular opinion in transformative star wars fandom–to say that Last Jedi is my number one choice, but man oh man.

Spoilers for TROS and TLJ from this point forward.

Where some films I could mention, JJ, make a big point of spitting on everything that came before them and focusing only on large action sequences that were done better with worse tech and worse budgets decades ago, Last Jedi is a very Fandom Approach to SW canon. It reconciles the trauma and toxicity of the Jedi Order that the prequels went to such lengths to establish, with the bright-eyed bombast of the original trilogy and its worship of a past that had rusted and decayed but was still considered magical to the people it surrounded.

If you are the kind of person who enjoys reading Star Wars fanfiction, you’ll probably really like Last Jedi. If you are the kind of person who enjoys reading Star wars lore books, you probably won’t. If you’re a more casual fan, you’ll probably enjoy the way it captures that “anyone can be anything” adventure spirit of the original trilogy, but the deep forays into examining the preceding media might be a bit uh… much.

Of course, Last Jedi is like… a Star Wars film. It’s a fantasy adventure series set in space, and it knows and accepts the fundamental nonsensicality of its own premise. If you are looking for something truly grounded and realistic, star wars is simply never going to be the place to go (though, the animated Clone Wars series might be a good start…).

So, I do recommend Last Jedi if you like Star Wars! Just, go into it knowing that it’s quite a tonal departure.

I once described it (though I’m not sure I still would) as “Star Wars for fans of Star Trek.”

In the end, I could never choose between star wars and star trek because, the aesthetic similarities aside, they’re two very different properties in two very different genre, with two very different intentions. Star Trek wants to examine the philosophical implications of a lot of human beliefs, behaviours, and cultures, and uses speculative fiction to do so from a safe distance. Star Wars wants to show the emotional highs and lows of a chosen one and their friends,  and uses speculative fiction to make the stakes for those perspective characters about a million times higher than they could be in a real-life scenario. One is about philosophy, and one is about feelings. And while you can philosophize on feelings, or have feelings about philosophy, the two series are just… fundamentally different!! Different stakes, different settings, different tones, different goals.

It’s a lot easier to compare media with more similar genres. Such as comparing Babylon 5 to Star Trek, or comparing Avatar the Last Air Bender to Star Wars.

Rise of Skywalker is… more of a pastiche of other Star Wars films than it is a Star Wars film in and of itself. It spends a lot of time re-creating iconic moments from other films, without putting much effort into making them match the current plot, emotions, etc. It also loses a lot of the emotional power that makes Star Wars so compelling. However, it does have some good points.

For example, I like the part where BB-8 watches Rey heal a snake, and then she decides to try healing another droid herself. So she puts her power cord on the other droid (because the healing was explained to her as “giving up some energy to the other person”), and it works (because the other droid had a dead battery). That was such top tier shit. BB-8 is blessed.

I just… dislike a LOT more than I like, with Rise of Skywalker. Still, if you enjoy Star Wars, it is probably worth catching on streaming or rental. I can’t in good conscience say it’s worth the cost of a theater ticket, that’s a decision you’ll have to make for yourself.

#TROS wank #fandom wank #negativity #star wars wank #star wars negativity #star wars spoilers #tros spoilers #spoilers #whining #oops I have feelings again #Anonymous

[angstywriterangst]

Alright, here is proof that whatever it ending Adam was told Ben would have was NOT death. This was his monologue from the first time he hosted SNL. No fucking way Disney would have let him say this if it was the plan back then.

https://youtu.be/dVeFQyuEgoY

#they did ben solo so dirty #haha hilarious said no one ever #adam driver snl #ben solo #kylo ren #tros wank

[janiedean]

Now for something completely different but how do you think the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy will age/be remembered? Do you think there's any hope for Finn/Poe content in the future?

in order:

how it will age: people are already trying to forget it now so it won’t hold up to the OT and in retrospective even the PT will fare better bc those had the nostalgia factor and at least they told a coherent story as bad as it was written

how it will be remembered: badly because most of the audience hated that plot and it was so bad it objectively ruined the whole thing in  retrospective and if you get the wholeass washington post article abt it... also like let’s not even gonna lie everyone is pissed off they killed off the one character people outside the internet actually found interesting so good luck with that

strmplt content: from the actual canon I think zero bc while I have no idea re what john b*yega wants to do (and honestly his complete lack of tact when it came to kmt’s treatment about killed any interest I had in his career anyway) because on one side he sounds pissed with dsney on the other he didn’t exactly complain about jj’s choices re his character which imvho were insulting af, I doubt that oscar is*ac wants to come back to that shitshow after they did that whole crap drug runner poe retcon and he’s 100% in the right because what the fuck so I highly doubt the both of them would come back, from the fandom... I mean considering that at this point they managed to do a level of gatekeeping/throwing out anyone who even writes smth more nuanced than ‘they hold hands and kiss and there’s a swear word int there so I can slap a pg13 rating on it’ idt there’s much good news for that either but ://

#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #sw-wank #sw wank #sorry guys i'm extremely disappointed on this whole front #like in retrospective tros was just bad and as much as I liked the whole GENERALS thing... #it was like AH YEAH WE'RE NOT GOING THERE BUT HAVE THE CONSOLATION PRIZE #also honest finn basically just screaming REY #when he had a wholeass perf arc in front of him #and the ridic racist af background they gave poe was just.... bleh #and honestly i'm one of those ppl who didn't exactly have stakes on the kyloren sl #but at the end of it he was the best conceived character in there #and killing off han and leia's son basically destroyed the legacy #and for what?? rey skywalker??? like sorry that was just dumb af #idk how you get back from killing off the character that sells you the merchandising #so :/// #Anonymous #ask post

[frumfrumfroo]

So I finally read the Rise of Kylo Ren comics (because I'm weak and couldn't help but give money to our corporate overlords just so I could see my boi) and literally a character says to Ben that it's never too late, that Ben can turn around at any point on this path he's on and do good for the galaxy for the rest of his life and it will matter regardless of the evil he's done. I just. Why did they release this after TROS?? I don't understand why they killed him. I just. They're cowards. They're evil cowards who don't even understand the irony of what they've written. I can't.

Yep, Soule understood the character but still somehow thinks it’s okay for sw to be a bleak miserable nightmare about predestination and nihilism. About how only being born perfect makes you worthy of life, your striving is always pointless and empty. Victims are tainted unless they are totally unaffected by their trauma. I just... I don’t know.

I’m so disgusted by it. The attitudes on display are sickening.

#salt #a tros ity #fuck tros vessel Reypatine the perfect heir #fuck everything it stands for #fuck every argument which tries to justify any part of it #them calling her by that bloodsoaked stolen name makes me literally ill #a protagonist shaped void filled with lineage wank #and victim-blaming

[him-e]

So was anakin even in the movie? I thought Anakin would be such a good person for Ben to talk with about what's important and help him go on the right path otherwise why else have Ben look up to darth Vader if they weren't gonna do something with it if not what a terrible missed opportunity

Lol you can only hear Anakin’s voice (I think?) when all the past jedi give their pep talk to Rey in her final fight against Palpatine.

TO REY. WHILE HIS ACTUAL GRANDSON, WHO FELL BECAUSE OF HIS CRIMES, AND FOR A LONG TIME THOUGHT OF HIM AS HIS ONLY INSPIRATION AND SOURCE OF STRENGTH, WAS IN THE PIT. IGNORED. FORGOTTEN. FOR PLOT AND FAKE FEMALE EMPOWERMENT REASONS.

#it's just so laughable #sw negativity #tros spoilers #tros wank #sw wank #anti tros #sw asks #anon #asks

[lazy-cat-corner]

Just started remembering the day before TROS premiered and all the spoilers came out one by one and I watched the light fade from the fandom’s eyes while the bad news was being delivered.

#still haven’t seen it. still don’t want to #aww shit here we go again #tros #the rise of skywalker #star wars #fandom discourse #fandom wank

[ohthatbunnygirl]

If the terrible endings of The 100, GOT, the most recent SW trilogy, and current Grishaverse (and formerly Grishaverse too) have taught me anything, it’s that show runners and authors shouldn’t follow fandom tags. 

I genuinely think that fans guess good endings, those ideas become popular, and then the writers do a hard gotcha swerve at the end instead so that they can say that we weren’t that clever.

Meanwhile, their endings have 0 payoff/satsifaction because they weren’t built up and were out of character. 

#fandom wank #the 100 #ROW #Grisha #The Darkling #TROS #good god let publishers and studios grow a pair of balls in the future and say no to dumb endings #spoilers #spoiler

[skywailer]

so anyway, Kelly Marie Tran, an Asian-American WOC went from having full-fleshed scenes and an independent and fulfilling plot-line to literally being sidelined in TROS by the absence of her from posters (while an alien slug that was onscreen for five seconds made the cut), by casting of the director’s white friends and by actual lines in the movie (being told to go away during the final fight sequence). she had a hiccup of screen time and no discernible character development, interactions with other characters, scenes, or contribution to plot. and the scene she was so excited about during press that was supposed to showcase an independent women only scene with Daisy didn’t even make the cut. and every person who contributed to that end result of a fuckfest can gtfo of Hollywood. every. single. person.

#tros did not course correct a goddamn thing for her character gtfo #sw wank #star wars

[morannon]

I just watched all of season 2 of The Mandalorian and.... I may have some opinions. In any case it was good enough until CGI Luke because WHAT THE FUCK were they thinking. Never mind, they weren’t...

#because this worked out so well for Leia...right.... #when it comes to Luke Skywalker #Ben Solo was right #let it die #kill it if you have to #this didn't have to become a nostalgia wank fest pastiche supreme #but who are we kidding #look a the shitshow that was TROS