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crooked-wasteland · 9 months

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Vivienne Medrano started her writing career on a comic by the name Zoophobia. A comic that lacked any sense of story whatsoever. While she would argue with comments about the lack of purpose by saying the story was Slice of Life, it was a forewarning of her future to come.

The story started with a concept of overcoming prejudice, but was quickly washed over with a bombardment of a large ensamble cast at the very start before introducing a whole separate but attached world that spun off into Hazbin Hotel. At no point actually finding a reason to care about the original premise of a prejudicial school counselor overcoming those qualities to help those around them that were substantially different from them.

Rather, Medrano has perpetuated the misnomer that Slice of Life is the same as storyless. And that's the greatest misunderstanding of a genre that can be achieved. Slice of Life being deemed meaningless time wasting as you look into the dull happenings of someone else's benign problems is a childish perspective.

Slice of life is the cornerstone of coming of age narratives like Grave of the Fireflies. For young adults, a slice of life mature story about what it means to grow up, or inner child healing, or how to move on would be a niche that could shape a generation for the better. Especially in our Era of the internet where most of us have spent more time learning socialization online.

Where people are stripped of their humanity and nuance, and tone is read into lettering on the cold blue light of a screen in the dark. Unless this little pixelated square and string of text makes me feel important by either agreeing with me and thus making me feel worth through their "support" for my beliefs or flatter me and validating my existence before disagreeing with my points, they are the villain of the second.

And especially being a show released at the height of a world trapped in quarantine, where all our sense of community and humanity came through a screen, Helluva Boss seemed to want to be a dark comedy that tackled the topics of damaged inner-children, relationship and abandonment trauma, self worth and moving on from past mistakes, and the complicated minefield of grey morality.

This is not mere conjecture either. Medrano has an outspoken love for shows like Bojack Horseman but lacks the understanding of why this absurd vision of slice of life was so emotionally and mentally profound to an entire generation of young adults. Medrano herself has liked sycophantic tweets comparing Helluva Boss to Bojack Horseman and subtly props herself on these pedestals alongside her idols despite not deserving of the comparison.

Blitz is the show titular Boss of the series and is very obviously a concept inspired by Bojack directly. Both Bojack and Blitz are performing artists, but while Bojack was immensely successful, Blitz was not.

Bojack's history is that of two abusive parents who had no love to spare for him. Instead, his only worth came in the form of performing. It was the only time he felt any ounce of love from his cruel mother, Beatrice, who used him as a means to elevate herself socially while simultaneously feeling any form of worth through the validation of strangers. Bojack is aware his mother was not a great parent, but he has a damaged inner child still desperate to get her approval and affection. Even though he genuinely hates her, he has a lingering empty maw within himself that begs for her love. Bojack suffers from a fear of loss.

When Sarah Lynn drinks his alcohol, he throws the hair dressed under the train to save himself. Despite his honesty having a high chance of being seen as the accident it was and excuses being made for him, Bojack was too insecure to recognize his protection through his popularity. He grew up with a mother who was the definition of conditional, and any small or large mistake could be the catalyst that took everything he had worked and waited for away.

Bojack's sabotaging of Todd also showsbthis fear of loss more blatantly. However, it lacks the understanding as to why Bojack would want to keep Todd near while also chronically putting him down. This is where the lack of understanding best shows between what Medrano thinks is happening and reality.

Blitz begins his story much the same way as Bojack. Instead of a slave driving mother profiting off her son, it's Cash Buckzo, Blitz's father and owner of a circus, who slave drives his children to perform. Blitz loves performing but is not deemed talented enough to be valuable. He has an implied sick, unseen mother who is treated as his motivation for complying with his father.

Medrano doesn't seem to realize that an external motivation lacks the emotional depth needed to have an audience empathize with the character. This is a repeated issue in every character.

Blitz isn't seeking a parent's approval but is instead held hostage by the desire to help someone else, and to do that must be submissive to an authority who has no care for him.

Stolas isn't at war with himself over cheating on his wife due to the fact that he is a gay man in an arranged straight relationship but instead is a victim in his own life. He is told what to do and how to do it by every other person in his life and doesn't have an internal sense of responsibility that he is contending with. He has no needs vs. wants. Instead, his wants are universal. To be loved is a base desire, and Medrano puts no effort into expanding on what that means for her character. Instead, utilizing the natural inclination in her audience to pretend there is depth in Stolas' conflict.

Loona is similarly a victim. She and Stolas are not fighting their own emotions, but the bullies contrived in the plot for them to confront. Her fault isn't her own insecurity that she must overcome. Rather, it is the fault of every other character for not coddling her insecurities due to her having a sad history. Actively fighting against the notion that people should ultimately be responsible for themselves.

This gives the impression of someone who believes a sympathetic past must justify one's behavior in the present. It's a blatant misreading of the idea that everyone has their own storm to navigate. The idea behind that saying is that you should be kind despite what you are going through because it is easy to believe you win the bad day Olympics when you're in the middle of it, not because someone else may be going or has gone through something worse.

Wrapping around, the Todd and Bojack relationship is a clear parallel to the Moxxie and Blitz relationship. But while Medrano uses the line "I'm hard on you because you can do better" as to why Blitz is a chronic asshole to his "friend", the writers of Bojack are not at all interested in justifying abuse. The reason Bojack ruined Todd's chance to leave can be seen as sympathetic because he is afraid of being alone and the loss that comes with that. But he isn't cruel or rude to Todd to make him better, rather it is the systematic disintegration of Todd's sense of ability and self worth to keep him codependent to Bojck and less likely to leave. It is only when Todd is away from Bojack that he actually comes into his true potential. The support of those around him telling him how badly Bojack treats him and instilling confidence in Todd to try things once again ultimately results in him escaping Bojack. It is a slow process for Todd to leave. He doesn't just walk away like it feels in the episode. Rather, he has spent seasons slowly becoming more and more distant from Bojack with new relationships and hobbies, even as Bojack tries to brow beat and insult him into complacency.

Instead, Medrano thinks things just happen from large, grand gestures and emotional beats. That a sad past is a free ticket to being an awful person who is accountable to no one. Much like the villain of Bojack Horseman.

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tocomplainfriend · 5 months

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Funny thing (not really) I’ve noticed is that Viv has always fetishized m/m relationships. There’s obviously Stolitz, but it goes back way further. There’s Addison from Zoophobia being shipped with a guy who works at his high school, but to mention that Viv has drawn NSFW of them despite Addison canonically being a minor. There’s also Autumn and Rusty, the former whom gets bullied by Rusty cause Rusty is secretly in the closet. Ten years later and she’s still weird about m/m relationships.

TW: fetishizing Queerness

I tried to search a little for Addison's age. In the wiki, that I know Viv did not write it says he is 18, other post say 17- there are people saying the age got changed too? I know almost nothing to zoophobia- if anyone knows about this claim, share your knowledge and importantly evidence of the age thing in specific? I do know about those snake drawings. And also was Viv 19? Have no clue-so I'm not gonna super talk about it without knowledge.

About the Rusty thing, I don't think Viv is a good enough writer (of relationships especially, cause Stolitz mainly) to pull that relationship or story. I don't think she can pull the idea of the closeted bully, purely by the fact that she doesn't understand or acknowledge the problems Stolitz has. If she needs to put down characters to make Stolas seems better and try to justify the power imbalance. I don't think she could write this if she wanted to. This closeted gay bully is such an old trope, too. I think the worst you can do (also as a non-amazing writer) is actually tried to make a romance out of it? Cause a lot of these tropes are more like "HAHA THE BULLY IS GAY HAHAHA", rather than "aww the bully was just sad and gay all along". I don't like it. (also this includes when the bully doesn't bully his romantic interest)

youtube

A lot of problems in mlm stuff Vivziepop does is similar to those Yaoi fetishization shit. Where there are also power imbalance. Also, this treatment of the characters like Moxxie? Like he is bi, and with Millie- and his treatment is so shitty. The hole thing of MILLIE PEGS MOXXIE, and that funny cause is less manly of him? Or where the succubus sexually assault them and that is funny??? (that one is not even Blitz being an asshole to him, it's made to act funny). As soon there is something viewed as feminine from him, the show makes fun of him. His feminine appearance in Unhappy campers also leads to make fun of him. Where he is the most vulnerable and insecure is that episode. He is more objectified in a feminine appearance.

Just the entirety of Stolitz is literally a lot of yaoi-sh problems. Also, I do see a lot of red flags in how they wrote Fizz and Asmo'. Because Fizz was insecure af, that he needed the approval of Mammon as an imp. Mammon was using the power that he had over Fizz to use him to get money. He got his approval from Asmo another sin in a higher position of power. (The power imbalance is not the problem vibes). Plus, The Big dominant protector and the sub small uwu cure relationship. Fizz, compared to the first time he appeared, he is so vulnerable and acts so cutesy. Like, the confidence he had during the S1, disappeared so bad. Acting so nice to Glitz and Glam, felt like cutting out all attitude to "uke-fing" him into needing a savior. They make him so powerless

Fizz, a quad amputee, was put in a vulnerable situation related to his trauma and where he lost all his limbs and horns. All to make Blitz "redeem" himself and make them friends again... THAT SUCKS.

Also, there was the fact of how over-sexual all the male mlm characters are, too. Like, Chaz was so much more sexual than Verosika as a succubus.

IT JUST SUCKS.

#vivziepop critique #vivziepop critical #helluva boss critique #helluva boss criticism #helluva boss critical #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel critique #zoophobia criticism #zoophobia critical

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almacambiondaughterofsaleos · 7 months

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Look At Zoophobia's Criticism And You See It Spill Onto Helluva Boss

Before Vivziepoop was known for Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss, she was also known for this series she did back in her college years, Zoophobia. It ran for four years and stopped due to her losing steam from it and not handling the criticism regarding it. And not handling criticism is going to be a big theme in this.

The rating summary shows a lot of criticism she had on this work sounds familiar doesn't it. The art is great, but you know it can be hit or miss when it comes to backgrounds. The story is supposed to be grand, but it ends up being one heck of a letdown because the writer doesn't know when to pick up or move the plot. Also they just dump future players and we neve really get to it. And again designs of characters aren't interesting or engaging as we are seen in how she repeats or makes them extremely gaudy. Again this is all from someone who never took criticism from her own series from heart and it doubled down.

Biggest complaint as we are seeing in the current day is that she's an immature woman who cries when she's criticized and throws tantrums whenever she people call out on her behavior. So those aspects always were with her but we ignored them based on the superficiality presented with Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss. Mostly because we thought she moved on but we were proven wrong.

Also look at her reaction due to her bad webcomic entry. On the surface it might seem civil, but we all know underneath she's seething big time about anyone giving her well deserved criticism about her overpraised shit.

Again when you look back at Zoophbia's issues and see things in Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel the issues are still prevalent and will lead to the downfall of both series since Vivziepop refuses to budge.

#helluva boss #helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #helluva boss critique #vivziepop criticism #vivziepop critical #vivziepop #anti-vivziepop #bad webcomics wiki #zoophobia #zoophobia criticism #zoophobia critical #anti-zoophobia

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showtoonzfan · 2 years

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Is it wrong to like Angel Dusts Zoophobia incarnation more than his Hazbin Hotel version? At least at this point in time?

I mean I'm sure I'll like the Hazbin version, but I just find it odd that despite the limited info we have of Zoophobia Angel Dust, that version I find more appealing.

No it is NOT just you! I freaking love Italian Mobster Angel. I miss him to death, I loved the crazy purple gangster aesthetic he had, he seemed so much more cooler and interesting, now he’s just a pink gay stereotype and it sucks.

#vivziepop critical #spindlehorse critical #hazbin hotel critical #zoophobia talk #zoophobia angel dust #hazbin hotel critism #Hazbin hotel critique

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inactive334884 · 2 years

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One last thing before I return to my den:

Blaming people for Vivziepop being spiteful or outright ignoring people's feedback is, in other words, awful. All many have done is say that her letting her fans attack people without saying anything about it, being spiteful towards criticism, is wrong. All many have done is say simple things such as "I feel that ____" could be improved upon or "I'd be nice if ____ were explored better." etc. Vivziepop, only less than a decade ago, even created a post criticizing the comic "Ava's Demon's." She knows the difference between critique, she's just choosing to ignore or outright spite those who do it all the way since she was working on Zoophobia, ten years ago!

Not everyone who critiques Helluva Boss or Hazbin Hotel is "anti".

I myself have now been dogpiled hundreds of times online since I was as young as fifteen years old, but if someone told me "Hey, maybe you could improve upon _____" would I yell at them and call them "naysayers"? NO! Because that's what children do, not 18 year old adults, let alone people over 20. Vivziepop is not a child, she is a grown woman who is responsible for the quality of what she creates and how she handles critique, she is old enough to have the ability to tell the difference between criticism and hate, and if she cant, that's on her, not the people who are being relentlessly attacked by your fandom over a goddamn cartoon. Just because some people are rude to you, does not excuse being rude back, let alone hostile just because they feel that you could improve on your creations or how you are being to others as a person.

If someone cannot tell the difference between critique and hate anymore, that's because they've chosen to not listen to said people, let alone be kind to them and to automatically shut out "the haters" because they hate the concept of having to change through time as a person/dont want to go through the effort of committing to said change. Vivziepop is, again, a fully grown adult and is therefore responsible for her own actions and people need to stop treating her as if she's the equivalent of a 16 year old.

Thank you.

#helluva boss #hazbin hotel #hazbin criticism #she doesnt even make an effort to acknowledge the critique maturely. this has been going on since Zoophobia.#stop trying to make excuses for bullying or purposely choosing ignorance. Its not helping your case and makes you seem hypocritical.#Erin Frost deserves better. But so does everyone else that Vivziepop has either turned a blind eye to or harmed herself.

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fatratbabyy · 2 years

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People: I've never read Zoophobia

People: However i think the writing is bad actually

#my brother in christ #did you just hear what you said #i dont think people realize you have to read something to critique #not to mention almost EVERY TIME they say this they ask a question thats licherally been answered #read zoophobia #its good #also please pay attention when reading #the answers are there #and if theyre not its cuz Zoophobia got cancelled #half of book 1 in #btw there was gonna be 10 books

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artofapeach · 2 years

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Fun fact Kayla is a canon Christian

Yeah! I remember Damien mentioning it somewhere in the comic.

Further proof that Christianity had some effect in Viv’s life if she’s willing to touch into it in her stories so often :)

#likely she was raised Christian #I dunno if she still is but #I like seeing her (and others!) talk about and critique it #hey an ask #not art #zoophobia

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flower-boi16 · 1 month

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When I discovered zoophobia criticism blog which is almost a decade old by now and decided to browse it, it was like such a strange historical piece from Viv's fandom. Many problems that Viv had such as lack of focus in her story, world building problems, handling criticism, toxic fanbase etc. Those can still be found in her recent shows such as hh and hb.

I’ve said it before but; Viv is pretty much what happens when someone doesn’t listen to criticism and improve as a writer; they repeat the exact same mistakes over and over again.

I think Viv fails to realize that, a lot of people are criticizing these shows because they WANT them to be good. I wanted Hazbin to be good. I wanted Helluva to be good. I understand why some people may write off the critical community to an extent considering all the twitter drama that catches attention, but Viv and her fans need to learn to separate that from the actual criticism because there IS actual criticism of these shows.

These shows have many issues with their writing that are worthy of critique, yet Viv just pretends that the twitter drama is the only criticism she’s getting when it isn’t. And she DOES know some of the critiques that people have with these shows that aren’t from unhinged twitter users (mainly the stuff with Millie), but she still doesn’t listen. She just lumps the real critiques with the angry twitter users online.

The fact that she’s always had this issue tells me that Viv hasn’t really grown as a person and is still in her immature high school phase. Same thing goes for her toxic fans. Nothing is going to change until VIV changes. And that won’t happen any time soon….

#vivziepop critical #hazbin hotel critical #helluva boss critical #vivziepop criticism #helluva boss criticism #hazbin hotel criticism

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ec2003 · 4 months

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Vivziepop's Tackle on Christianity

It's no surprise that this son of a bitch despises religion as it proves in Hazbin Hotel ep 6 with the "Heaven is a lie" lyric but I think during that time when Viv was making Zoophobia, there are reasons why she doesn't like religion and I mean, can you blame her though? There are SOME (not all are like this) religious people in this world that force their beliefs onto everyone to take advantage of others, have control, and exploit people's behavior. Maybe Viv was being forced into religion and she was abused if she didn't comply which is why she has an unhealthy attachment to demons for many years. Maybe the demon characters she makes are based on her own inner demons. It's understandable but still doesn't give her an excuse to think all Christians are assholes in recent years. I can see this as a critique on some religion where they had these beliefs that God can judge everyone for who they are and look when in reality, God loves people. To be real with you, as a spiritual person myself, I did find this funny and I understand that maybe it made you uncomfortable.

#vivziepop critical #vivziepop #vivziepop criticism #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel #helluva boss criticism #helluva boss

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gartenofbanny · 10 months

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Hello! I am currently trying to make a document including all evidence of Viv's problematic behaviour, and since you're quite popular in the critical community, I wanted to ask your opinion on the structure of it. If I missed anything feel free to correct me!

Vivziepop is a horrible person

I-early signs

-Nazi sausage party ocs (inspred by doctor Mengele, following a nazi blog

-drawing Kesha and glorifying her illness

-Zoophobia (contains the Addison drawings, Mirage being depicted as goofy when she's a pedo, Sahara and Latika designs

-supporting blaire white and Shoe0nhead (her too since Shoe has recently been revealed as a neo nazi)

-transphobia (discord messages)

-drawing Mimzi as a caricature/stereotype of Jewish people

II-Spindlehorse & twitter

-Raphielle shipping valangel, saying their a proshipper and still working on SH

-Following multiple proshippers, including someone who used audios of REAL kids for his digital CP and someone who actively ships Rick/Morty

-allowing and encouraging the harrasment of people who critique her shows to the point they are forced to come out or receive rape threats

-Blaming A24 for the lack of competent advertisement on Hazbin Hotel and replacing the voice cast

-encouraging harassing Erin Frost and Kendraw for coming out with their experience with her

-Studio reviews revealing the nepotism and abuse in the SH studio

III- The shows

-finn/ cole was made cis when he was originally trans

-sally mae only regarded by the fandom as a trap or futa, sexualised in every piece of her merch with her dick being emphasized to the point the fandom fetishizes her

-alastor being made creole or mixed as an afterthought, when Viv had already used real life voodoo symbols, very clearly inspiring alastor from Wendigos without any research, made him white as paper and depicted him as the 100th " asexual and aromantic person is an evil murderer!".

His asexuality and possible aromanticism is always ignored by the fandom in favor of shipping, and inclusive Vivziepop even said to do as they pleased with his sexuality for shipping.

-forced positivity, pushing the idea that even murderers, abusers and horrible people can change hazbin hotel

Depicting abuse (Crimson hitting Moxxie, the whole Valangel tag existing) and sexual assault (again woth Moxxie and angel) as funny jokes or sexy

-Noticing a pattern, Viv tends to promote M/M relationships a lot but depicts them as overtly sexual, predatory and toxic, and seems to have a problem with having "twink" characters abused sexually in a yaoi-ish way (Addison, Moxxie and Angel, Vox. Stolas/blitz too.)

-the only two people of color that are confirmed are Alastor, Velvette and Valentino. Velvette's color is very ashy and she is often infantilised (this might have more to do with her being a woman in Vivs eyes) she presents no POC features at all, neither does Valentino who is a stereotypical black man who is a pimp, abusive (sexually too) and has a short temper.

-using "it's hell " as an excuse to make horrible characters to glorify and depict as the true victim while doing nothing to become better. (Ex. Stolas is a rapist , Blitzo Sexually harrasses his co-workers and is very toxic, Alastor is a serial killer.) Depiction is not glorification, but Viv actively makes it seem like all of it is okay to do and has a show who has a very negative message that affects the viewers and fanbase into excusing disgusting shit.

-disrespecting religion by not accurately researching the demons she talks about

-Sexist writing in helluva and hazbin that favores males(Loona,Millie,Stella, Verosika)

-ableist language by Blitzo, refusal to acknowledge this and even joking about not being able to say a slur

-collaborates with Brandon Rogers,whose work is clearly sexist,racist,homophobic and ableist

-making fun of eating disorders (Moxxie)

-involving kesha in her show while she is trying to get justice for being abused and trying to recover, making the character she voices based on all the things she hated about herself

-included famous voice actors, pays thousands for them but actively underpaid and overworked her staff

-No trigger on an episode that contained Blitzo vomiting

-Barbie wire grooming a teenager is considered a joke (and the tweet doesn't count, we should be able to tell if the teen was actually older by his design or any line of dialogue, if those who don't have twitter won't know it means it's a problem)

-various incest jokes hinting at proshipping (Moxxie/Millie, and a rumor +dialogue cues hint at Andrealphus and Stella being in a relashionship)

-merch of almost all female characters being somewhat sexual

-depicting the Woman/Man as the only healthy relationship (Moxxie/Millie) while the queer couples are toxic (Chaz/Moxxie Blitzo/Stolas)

Holy shit that's a long read, I suggest you make that into a blog post or something. The only portion I can assume that you got correct is the third section. Most of the first two sections are spot on to me, but I am not sure if they're both completely correct because I'm not really aware of what Vivziepop did in the past, just what she has been doing since like last year. Sorry to disappoint, but it is pretty great from what I'm reading.

Modify it to what you think is best so that people will read from it and test read it yourself in case you got something wrong. I suggest you use Grammarly for grammar or spelling issues because even though English is my first language I still struggle with those

#helluva boss #vivziepop critical #helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #vivziepop criticism #vivziepop #helluva critical #helluva boss critique #vivienne medrano #hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel critique #hazbin critical #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel criticism

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almacambiondaughterofsaleos · 2 months

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Hey, For Those Who Want To See That Vivziepop's Behavior Patterns Haven't Change Check Out This Blog

It's kind of long been abandoned but it still is a good resource to show the receipts concerning the fact she's always had this concerning behavior and lack of maturity as a person. And again as a creator she's always had the same problems people are now criticizing in her later works.

#helluva boss #vivziepop critical #helluva boss critical #vivziepop criticism #vivziepop #helluva boss criticism #anti-vivziepop #helluva boss critique #hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel critical #zoophobia #zoophobia critical

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ashpentagram · 2 years

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how many of these am I gonna do fr

I’ve been mulling over wasting my time trying to give a whole speech as a decade-long writer about experiencing growth and gaining inspiration from various medias and go into a small dive into how refusing to grow by creating a fervent echo chamber will only harm your process and ruin a pretty feasible creation and turn it into a battlefield that just leaves everybody miserable, as well as leave you as a stunted writer from the early 2010s.

I basically wanna say that Viv has the potential and the resources to grow as a writer. Animator, designer, world-builder — set all of those aside and focus solely on the writing aspect.

Personally, Viv has astounding concepts. Her world creation, introducing these ideas and offering a different perspective are fantastic.

Her execution is piss-poor, to be blunt.

As a small contextual tangent — there’s a sad situation that any sort of critique on her writing is seen as an attack (both by her, and her fans) and anybody who wants to offer any sort of advice or feedback are shunned and written off as haters or nihilistic assholes. Don’t get me wrong, I feel as if there’s an annoying amount of people out there who just really hate Viv and all she is, and that’s stupid. The parasocial breech on both sides of the anti and stan spectrum is so absurd, because you have her crew (I understand they do not fall under parasocial due to actually working / communicating / “knowing” her) claiming her as innocent as a lamb, and her fans praising her like she’s the second-coming of Christ, and then you have antis who attempt to doxx her and send her incessant death threats and slander her name. Neither of these things are appropriate, even if one side is technically positive.

I don’t think Viv is a saint. I don’t think she’s the most atrocious person on the planet. I am simply a fellow writer and creator who is looking at her work and pointing out places where improvement can be made. I would be much more lenient and understanding if she was a beginner or an amateur, but she’s working professionally and has been working professionally for quite some time now. People who act like she’s some helpless writer because she doesn’t have the experience don’t understand she has been making overarching worlds and stories for a decade. As have I.

So, with that preamble aside, I wanna discuss the aforementioned echo chamber Viv has locked herself into. It’s relatively well-known by now that Viv cannot handle criticism. Most amateurs can’t — it’s hard to hear that somebody doesn’t like your work, or experience the initial feeling of not being good enough. I myself for the longest time hid away from criticism and wrote rather harsh responses to people when I got it. That was wrong of me, however I was also only somewhere between 11-15. Viv was 19 or 20 when zoophobia began to release, which to some people would still consider exceptionally young. However it’s been ten years since Zoophobia, and the same writing flaws are apparent.

We’re given a premise — be it simple or not — of a show or a comic that really digs in the interest of the audience. That’s how hooks work, and hooks are not always solid in the sense of being anything more to grab your audience and sit them down to invest in your story — however, when you look at your premise for the story as the hook, and treat it as all that it is, it’s much harder to stray from it and explore different ideas and perspectives without the audience feeling confused as to why so much has changed. In Zoophobia’s case, while yes, it was a hastily dropped project for the sake of Hazbin, it fell rather fast from its initial premise of following Cameron as she navigated her job as a councilor for creatures she was petrified of (hence the name). It was handed to us under the guise of us following her journey as she learned to sympathize with something she feared, as well as aid them despite her wariness and confusion. Granted, it was present throughout most of the comic, which is probably why I enjoyed it more than I currently enjoy Helluva Boss, but it had its moments of teetering away from Cameron — her story was essentially done within the first 7 chapters of the first book. She was warming up to the animals around her, and while she was still tentative, she handled her first counseling case with almost no discomfort. I feel like in the sense her growth was rushed, because Viv really wanted to move on and look to the other cast of the comic, and that’s completely valid. It’s hard not to rush to important parts, but that’s an amateur mistake.

The problem is this mistake never corrected itself due to the filtering of criticism under the pretense of it being nothing more than mindless hate. There is a subtlety to refinement, sure, don’t fix what isn’t broken, but don’t just let it sit and get old and worn either. In Zoophobia the hook was the story. By the end of the released content, the hook was abandoned for the additives, and I do personally enjoy Damian’s moments and learning more about the world, I won’t deny that it strayed very quickly from what grabbed us in the first place. In Helluva Boss, the book was little lowborn demons going to earth and killing people already-dead people wanted offed, as well as the boss of the ragtag team being tied down by the royal he outsmarted. It was an excellent idea, and I was beyond excited to be invested in it. I was invested until about episode 4, with the cracks growing cavernous the longer I mulled over the story and the actual implications and portrayals they were giving us.

I won’t deny that I was perhaps the harshest on episode 4 due to the angels being downright disappointing, but I also recognize that introducing heaven to us in any capacity in Helluva Boss instead of keeping those cards close to the chest for Hazbin was a drastically horrible choice in a writing aspect. Yes, I know there’s an appeal of showing the opposite side of the universe and how there’s an opposite to our main cast, but it shouldn’t have been on the table in the first place. Heaven was securely wrapped in intrigue and mystery for an explicit reason of “demons don’t know angels” hence Charlie’s naïveté. Showing us, and IMP experience angels and heaven was… terrible. It has completely isolated Heaven as a joke of pastel softness instead of a force to be reckoned with. Those exterminators gave us everything we needed to know about heaven and all that should have been given — giving us the CHERUBs in episode 4 has demolished Heaven into a ridiculous joke of “oh well they have these super cool murder angels, but there’s also stupid babies who get bested by Hell’s canonical lowest-born demons :)”

This is poor writing. This is jumping forward and abandoning your hook as easily as it was brought to the audience. Technically episode 2 was the first drop of IMP, but episode 4 really kicked us down.

Another episode that comes to mind with writing issues is episode 7. Episode 7 showed us that Stolas was so depressed and in love with Blitzø after the entire season showed us he exclusively fetishized him. So much as calling him the plaything Striker assumed Blitzø to be in episode 5. Stolas was never portrayed as being in love except for outside the “grey-area instagrams”. Relying on non-canonical posts to build a relationship where canon actively fights it has the same tonal dissonance of the merchandise showing Blitzø and Stolas perfectly happy and enjoying each others company when Blitzø has smiled a total of three times around Stolas in the entire season (two of which were Blitzø being cheeky, not genuine). Episode 7 felt as if it took place 20 episodes in and not 7, and relied so heavy on Stolas being a lovesick puppy that they made all the progress and context of the literal episode prior just jump down the drain head-first. Blitzø realizing his emotions towards Stolas are negative and he feels like he’s being used? Moxxie and Blitzø seemingly becoming more attuned to one another with newfound respect? Gone. It’s all gone. Blitzø is back to stalking Moxxie and Millie and ignoring their gripes, and the crew decide “oh well we’re gonna make it Blitzø’s fault that Stolas thinks it’s a date, because Blitzø’s growth is gone and we need him and the plot to roll along.”

Then we meet a spineless king of Hell Asmodeus, with his imp, Fizzarolli who is also Blitzø’s childhood friend. You can say whatever you want about these two, I don’t care, but their relationship in any capacity is really out of nowhere. They are a foil for Stolitz, and while they work, they also make no sense. I have a long-winded tangent for Fizz and Oz, I’ll really need to organize my thoughts on them because a lot of my gripes are built out of frustration of taking an easy-way out instead of really giving us the “dark” in dark comedy.

To be short, episode 7 did not feel connected to the series. It felt like it should have come much later, and acted as if it was hot shit when in reality it was flat and hamfisted. It was so desperate to give Stolitz an episode where their relationship was put on a pedestal, and then break it back down, but the fact they were building with rubble just made the thing a disaster.

Going into season two, the writing fell harder than it ever had. Somehow, somewhere, Viv decided making these two disasters into childhood friends, or at least, force them to meet as children. As to add insult to injury, they crumpled Stella’s character, they made Paimon a joke, and they made Blitzø subjected to literally being sold by his father and bought by Stolas’s. Idk about you but even if I was capable of loving somebody romantically, if I knew my parents bought them to spend time with me, I’d instantly lose all attraction because of how disgusting that situation would be perceived as. Also as I’m writing this, I’m wondering where the hell Stolas was when Paimon was talking to Cash, since Paimon left Cash’s tent with his butler but like. Where’s the kid. Did they just forget Paimon had gone with Stolas? It could’ve been as simple as showing Stolas sneaking off to see Blitzø after the show and him, Blitzø and Fizz interacting with each other.

Anyway. Episode 1 of s2 was a mess. It single-handedly tore down everything coherent in the prior season. I don’t know how you manage to do that, but I guess when you’re stuck in an echo-chamber and hellbent on forcing every imaginable trope into your favorite ship, Viv is sacrificing quality for self indulgence. And yes, doing what you want to do is completely valid, and you don’t have to care what people think, but the fact you play it for excellency and perfection and astounding ground-breaking storytelling when in reality it’s just glorified yaoi fanfiction is disastrous. Add all of these with a rabid fan base that white-knights Viv at every chance because during a time period where she was genuinely being harassed over long-old issues she’s consistently apologized and grown from, the fan base has this weird conditioning that everything that goes against her is an intent to destroy their “perfect queer demon show.”

I don’t even have the energy for discussing season 2 episode 2, since it’s basically just digging its grave as hard as it can. It had a great moment with showing us Loona’s backstory and finally giving me a crumb of dark content, but other than that, it was a flat and boring episode. The writing was subpar since it couldn’t decide what it wanted to do, and bloated itself when it literally didn’t need to.

I’ve been writing this post over the course of three or two days now, I can’t remember but just recently Erin Frost made another post about Viv and while this isn’t the place I want to discuss it, the fandom has been saying some truly disgusting things towards a victim and I think y’all need to think about what you’re saying to people. What if all of these allegations are true? What if Viv really did say these things and really was harming her workers? Would you like these things said to you if you were in Erin’s place? What happened to you all preaching kindness and being a welcoming community? Seriously. Just sit and think for once before you say something so abysmally cruel. Viv is not gonna give you a one-way ticket to exclusive content just because you called somebody a slur.

I’ve strayed really far from the initial topic of this post which was the lack of letting yourself hearing criticism will only harm you and leave you ignorant. Viv should know by now how to write something coherent, yet she fails to do so. She should know that criticism is an excellent gateway to growth and understanding your work and how to create. Criticism is not going to go away just because you block it out. You will grow in certain areas but you will always remain stunted if you don’t let yourself be vulnerable to the views others may have. Forcing yourself into a room where all you hear and process is praise and worship, you will become so so deaf to those with genuine desire to share their views on how you could not only create something better, but create something that would flow beautifully with the rest of the creation. Right now, the writing is swimming against the current. The composition and the animation (while not perfect) are astounding in their own rights. The backgrounds are beautiful, even when in an episode where the cast is stuck for the majority in one room. The music, while not adhering to my personal tastes, is passable to the majority. I suppose the writing can be viewed that way, but most of the time I can’t tell if people are actually enjoying the show, if they’re fetishizing gay people, or if they’re just so desperate for anything queer-run and queer-oriented they lose all sense of self and devour and obsess over it because it’s content that we have been starved of for generations.

I don’t want to come off negative. These are my thoughts as a writer. These are my thoughts of a once die-hard fan who would and has white-knighted Viv before. This is coming from a place of concern and a desire to share my thoughts on how writing can grow. Just because Viv has matured from writing “wuz” to “was” doesn’t mean the piece has grown from a half-assed stick figure attempt you don’t put any soul into to Leonardo Da Vinci or Picasso. Art is supposed to be about continual growth, and when you force yourself into a box you will not be able to branch out in the ways you want. You will be forced to live in that box unless you yourself allow others to nurture in your growth. You do not have to create and grow on your own, you can allow others with conflicting inputs to interact with you.

#helluva boss #long post #helluva boss critical

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deadprrks · 4 months

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hey hii !! my name is SKYE! i use she/they pronouns, and i am 18 !!! ^_^ i have diagnosed autism & ADHD. i am a WOLF THERIAN! ΘΔ🐾🐺

i am apart of a system! @ghost-of-a-system is our blog where we post about sys stuff :) i am a fictive of jayjay from zoophobia (no i don't support vivziepop) i've been here wayy too long to have a say in my existence.

i am into scene stuff, especially 2010's internet culture and nostalgia!! i find lots of punctuation/emojis fun and expressive, so i may use them often! but aside from that....,, i lovelovelove writing, and drawing too! ask me to critique && give feedback on writing and i will love you FOREVER /hj /lh

like said.... i do have autism and i often use tone indicators as i am horrid at tones and genuinely need them. if we talk one-on-one, pls tell me if you do not want them used on you!!! ^_^'

i will probz mostly reblog things i like, yap about random thoughts, or just have fun! :3

i do NOT support, please DO NOT INTERACT with me: proshippers/MAPs, anyone attracted to animals/children who isn't actively seeking help. i block freely if you have views that make me uncomfortable!

please tell me if i should tag this for eyestrain! i tried to keep the colors minimal as i also have sensitive eyes, but i am willing to tag it if it is too much :3

CREDITS: timberbark (1), burntoutuserboxes (2), radiotrophicfungi (3), ricepickachu (4), sysboxes (5, 6, 9), scrungledflies (7), snowyapricity (8)

#intro post #pinned post #pinned intro #alter #therian #wolf therian #alterhuman #alter sideblog

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pakeithpsy · 1 year

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A serious discussion regarding Hazbin, Helluva Boss, and VivziePop

Seriously considering just jumping ship from the Hazbin/Helluva fandom and never looking back.

I don’t think there’s anything in my life that’s gone from “the thing I love more than life itself” to “the thing that causes me unrelenting pain and misery” so fast and so hard.

I’m tired of listening to the whiny fans who are never satisfied with anything.

I’m tired of listening to the overly-defensive fans who refuse to accept any criticism directed towards it whatsoever and unhealthily stan Viv.

I’m tired of dealing with the constant drama surrounding Viv and the crew.

I’m tired of dealing with the haters harassing other fans and the crew over the tiniest of slights.

I’m tired of constantly feeling miserable with the knowledge that I will never get to work with any of these amazingly talented people nor will I ever have the skill or fandom comparable to theirs while idiots who know nothing about connections and resources keep shilling it as the gold standard of indie animation and evidence as to why I should stop procrastinating even though literally nobody will ever see what I make and will unfairly compare it to HB even though it’s completely unfair and one-sided.

It’s always been like this. Even in the Zoophobia days with the Honest Critiques blog, being a part of this community was still painful. But back then there were still good things to balance it out. For every rude hater or overly-toxic fan there were good things from good people that kept me coming back. But now I don’t even have that. Just being a part of this community on either side of the discourse is emotionally draining and miserable. Staying with this fandom has caused me nothing but misery. I’ve lost friends by being part of this community, I’ve hurt good people who deserve so much better over petty drama and now I can’t even reach out to any of them to try and make things right. I truly feel as though Hazbin and everything related to it and its community was better when it was just this small, cult thing. But the bigger and bigger the show got and the larger and larger this community became, the worse and worse it became to stay involved with. Why should I continue to follow something when it just makes me feel worse about myself and about the rest of the world?

I haven’t even watched any of season two. Since my life has stagnated and dealing with this drama has taken such a massive toll on my mental health, I didn’t want to just make myself feel worse watching it. But now I don’t think I ever want to watch any of this ever again. I don’t want to look at a single piece of fanart, I don’t want to hear about peoples’ fan theories, I don’t even want to know if it’s still a thing at all. I just want NOTHING to do with this series and this artist and just pretend they never even existed.

Even if Helluva Boss was a perfect, flawless show that appealed to everybody and even if Viv was a perfect angel who never did anything wrong and all that dirt about her was just lies and misunderstandings, I still wouldn’t want to be a part of this fandom because both this community and its detractors are just so miserably toxic that it just isn’t worth staying invested in. I actually had to unsubscribe from Viv’s channel just because I was so sick of seeing it on my dash and constantly reminding me of what I will never have and how horrible discourse has tainted my love for something I was once so passionate about. And I'm thinking that it may be for the best that I just leave this behind once and for all, but I’ve been invested in this world and characters and production for so long it feels like I’m forever chained to it and leaving it behind would force me to reevaluate my entire life.

And you know what, maybe this is on me. Maybe this is my fault for unhealthily attaching myself to people I don’t even know and works of complete fiction. But I just feel like part of me is dead inside and will never be able to fully heal. Something as trivial as a fandom for a silly web cartoon should not cause anyone this amount of mental anguish, be they autistic, mentally ill, depressed, or otherwise. I don’t know what else I’m supposed to do. This feels like such a stupid thing to get upset over and I just feel so embarrassed that just saying "a cartoon is making me feel bad” out loud sounds so utterly stupid to me.

I don’t even know why I say shit like this. It’s not like anybody even knows I exist. All I can do is just pretend and fantasize about all the great things my future holds to cope with the fact that I know deep down nothing will ever get better, not for me, not for this fandom, not for the rest of the world. I wish I never found about Viv or any of her stuff. I feel like I would be a much happier person if I didn’t even know what any of this was. But I do know, and I’m not happy. I wish I could just be normal like everybody else and just move on from something when I don’t like it anymore. I miss when works of fiction didn’t cause people nothing but agony and suffering.

#vent #hazbin hotel #Helluva Boss #vivziepop #fandom #hatedom #fandom drama #depression #stupid autistic hyperfixation most people won't understand

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