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errorscriber · 7 months

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TL;DR- Milgram is testing gender biases but not in the way people would like to believe. It is unreasonable for people who seem to want Kotoko to be innocent again to tie the change in opinion around her to misogyny. I'm somewhat sympathetic to people who do enjoy Kotoko as a character because it seems like they're becoming increasingly more panicked by others not as devoted to the character as they believe themselves to be seeing past the veneer and viewing Kotoko's behavior for the outcomes it creates instead of the catharsis it gives.

Though I understand that labeling people interrogating her behavior or questioning it as misogyny can help these individuals feel better and more secure in their opinion. I think it ultimately does little to benefit the character or the fandom in the long term. Instead, I believe it gives people who enjoy the character in different ways a bad impression of what fans of her character are like. Something that will ultimately lead to more quiet parties in the fandom projecting their disdain for Kotoko's fans on the character and using her trial as a way to let out those frustrations about these bad faith interpretations.

Comparing Futa and Kotoko is reasonable to an extent but making that comparison and just checking it off as misogyny is silly and reductionist. I feel people who want Kotoko to be Innocent for whatever reason could have a genuine discussion around the two forms of radicalization that both characters discuss. Highlight how Kotoko is just as much of victim of her environment as Futa is and home in on her more personable traits to better highlight her understated good qualities.

I don't fully believe Kotoko is an irredeemable character but how her well intentioned more vocal fans discuss her really highlights how dangerous it is to follow these sorts of people without question and how easy this sort of thing is to fall into.

Other than that, let's get started.

For all intents and purposes what is about to follow this sentence is fully intended as a joke about previous events and nothing more,

"If I see one more rabid Kotoko Innocent voter comparing "actually" interrogating her actions to misogyny I may-"

In all seriousness though, people who claim to be fans of Kotoko's may want to find a better defense for her actions before her trial starts. Instead of you know doing what people claiming to be Mu's fans did- Ignoring the problem while digging their hills in deeper and deeper. Everyone literally saw how that turned out.

Plus, from what it seems Kotoko may not be able to gaslight, gatekeep, girldictate her way out of this one and ignoring the ever growing signs of that isn't helpful in the long run.

I dislike Kotoko. I have done nothing to hide this. However, crying misogyny each time a woman's behavior is brought into question is in my opinion literally the definition of white woman tears. It does nothing to interrogate the underlying issues being brought up and the only purpose of using it is to lampshade the idea that something is amiss at all under the guise of discrimination taking place.

Men can be wrong, women can be wrong, nonbinary people can be wrong, intersex people can be wrong, demigender people can be wrong, agender people can be wrong, and genderfluid individuals can be wrong. Regardless of how one self-identifies based on gender, sexuality, ethnicity, nationality, or mental health wise everyone can be wrong, and everyone's actions can objectively be harmful.

No matter what people may say none of those characteristics is an excuse or justification for people causing harm. Crying gender discrimination is incredibly odd to me especially when taking the voting trends of Milgram into consideration. Milgram has specifically been testing these biases from the beginning. Something that has proven the opposite of this claim is true.

Saying things such as if X prisoner were male presenting instead of female or if X prisoner was female presenting instead of male, they'd be given more leniency is ultimately a weird back and forth talking point to me. Especially since we have a good amount of evidence to prove which statement is true and which one is not from the voting results along with the information Milgram has provided.

Because Milgram has done everything in its power to not only play on this bias but test it. From blatantly giving each of the prisoners a presentably opposite sex presenting counterpart,

To separating the prisoners into even groups of male presenting and female presenting. Even though the series canonically recognizes that there are more genders and have had characters make statements alluding to gender being a social construct.

So, if we look at the trial one results of each prisoner who has stated that someone who presents as the opposite gender as them is the most like their selves then we can see how gender has impacted the results,

In trial one Kazui did get a higher innocent verdict than Yuno but they were both Innocent/Forgiven. In comparison we can see despite being similar as they both stated they believed themselves to be Kotoko was Innocent/Forgiven by a large margin and Futa was Guilty/Unforgiven.

Then comparing Kotoko to the male she was expressly paired with is even worse.

Because as most know Mikoto had the largest Guilty/Unforgiven verdict of trial one. He was also beat up by Kotoko during his first trial interrogation for good reason. However, this goes into another gendered bias within Milgram. The only people Es has physically hit or have been hit during their interrogations are male or explicitly never referred to as female due to their age. Since the person he most recently hit was Amane who has been labeled as child by the not only the source material but the fandom at large.

No one has gone can't little girls do anything when it comes to Amane. No one has said can't we just support little girls being feral for Amane. At least not that I have seen. In fact people don't even like that certain individuals consider Amane's abuse when voting on her trial because they believe that either reduces her to just a victim (for some odd reason this was not an issue when taking Mu being bullied into consideration but is here) or is treating her like a child something she asked us not to do but Es speculated she wanted us to do within Amane's second voice drama.

Where's the justification of Amane's actions based on her gender, age, or the treatment she had to undergo like with Mu and Kotoko now? Because I'm not seeing anyone go as hard for her.

What makes this twenty something year old woman who to her own admission has never once faced persecution so special?

Sadly, children aren't considered to be men or women but just by the genderless term child. This means people don't have to think about complicated adult constructs when it comes to their rights. This conveniently leaves Amane out of this can't women/girls do anything because her story is about children rights. Something consistent Milgram voters have done a good job at highlighting a good deal of society doesn't believe children should have. Be it the right to make their own religious and medical decisions or taking agency over how they are treated by those older than them.

Milgram has gone out of its way to split the cast evenly between the most commonly recognized presented genders for a reason. It included characters of certain age ranges and stated or implied disabilities for a reason. Because when people are a certain age or have a certain diagnosis their gender and their thoughts on it cease to matter. They are only judged by their age or diagnosis. However, instead of talking about all these things people would rather use the social construct of gender for its most historically used weaponization of protecting the over privileged from taking accountability for their abuses.

The fact that people today still believe they can cry misogyny when it's simply convenient to them and that no one will go look at the evidence collected by the voting demographic that readily proves this to not be the case is wild to me.

This is why for me seeing people say if Kotoko were a man she'd have it easier is funny. One because Kotoko openly views femininity as a tool which she uses at her discretion so she's genderfluid or agender if anything. This is something she states in response to her first written interrogation questions. So, using the label woman as an excuse for her behavior is very Kotoko behavior of her fans but again just not actually helpful. Especially if I can just look back and go um that's not how Kotoko identifies all the time though and she alluded to so here.

Being genderfluid or agender does not make her any less of a woman of course. It just makes discussing her case based solely on her womanhood odd to me. Doing so ignores an extremely specific intricacy of the character that has been made known from the beginning. An intricacy I find to be a compelling and interesting aspect of her character. I could still judge her actions based on her womanhood but that's just not going to work to persuade me that she was right because I simply do not believe it's okay for anyone to get away with something based on their gender alone.

Recognizing her gender possibly being more fluid based upon her answer to the femininity question again doesn't change how I feel about Kotoko's behavior as a person. It's literally like cool gender I respect that your actions are still trash though.

Plus using her gender to compare her current circumstances to Futa's and saying there's a gender bias going on here is weird to me. Again, Futa was guilty trial one Kotoko was innocent. Futa has long term possibly permanent impairments due to the verdict he received. Something that was caused by Kotoko. Futa is a very tit for tat person and his first song displays through his lyrics that he used to stop after someone apologized while Kotoko's displays her mindset of an apology not being enough a mindset that Futa slowly develops into having over the course of Bring It On.

As displayed through this lyric,

"You won’t be forgiven, a coward, never!"

Milgram goes out of it's way to showcase how Futa and Kotoko are at different levels of radicalization. Alluding to the very real possibility that if Futa was affirmed during trial one he would be just as bad if not worse than Kotoko. Even Kotoko's answer in regard to him being the one she believes to be the most like her points this out.

"Though he’s also the person who resembles me the least."

She even spends most of trial one observing Futa and says this before his interrogation and trial.

20/09/18 (Futa’s First Trial)

Futa: Haa…… haa…… Ok……

Kotoko: What’s up, Futa. ……your breathing seems a bit uneven?

Futa: Huh!? I’m getting ready to fight. That guard is looking down on all of us……!

Kotoko: ……hmm. Is that so…… I’m looking forward to it. To seeing what your “justice” really is.

So, more than likely if Futa was voted Innocent alongside her he would've just ended up being indoctrinated by her instead. Since they both recognized the similarities, they had with one another but just wound up on opposite sides.

Also, Futa's verdict didn't change round two simply because he's a guy. It's because he made a reasonable case for himself that caused most of the audience to reflect upon their behavior as well as Futa's. Implying that it's just because Futa is a guy is not only demeaning to his characterization and the time people put into analyzing both his songs but-

Ignores the fact that people still believe his actions are unforgivable. Along with the fact, that a good deal that believe that actively defend/support Kotoko's behavior. Oh, yeah- And it blatantly ignores that the thing he was being persecuted for to begin with (the doxing) was slowly but surely proven not to be his fault at all. Something he'd been saying from the fucking beginning of trial two.

Futa: It wasn’t me. It wasn’t my fault. Like anyone would die from that normally! The one who spread it wasn’t me anyway.

In contrast to Mu where the idea of her being in the wrong was so heavily denied that once it was shown that she was many changed their opinion not because her actions were inexcusable but simply because they felt tricked. Even though as Milgram stated all the evidence of the prisoner's crimes were there to begin with if people were willing to look and many including myself tried to lighten knee-jerk reactions by bringing the possibility to attention before It's Not My Fault even released.

So, if Kotoko's defense is simply Mu's repackaged brand of God can't women do anything? Why would that be reasonable enough justification for the tangible damage we may be about to see Kotoko's actions cause. What if just like in Mu's case where we see her bullying her victim, we see Kotoko attacking those kids?

Will that defense of can't women do anything really be able to justify that sort of behavior? Well given Amane's tanking verdict being assigned female at birth may just be something the fandom considers a valid excuse for abusing children. I've seen so many people justify Amane's mother's behavior by saying she was indoctrinated too, it's hard to raise a child by oneself the father was always away, maybe she wasn't mentally well etc. Once again showing of that if a character is an adult woman, they're actions and the tangible harm they cause can be justified in a myriad of ways.

Unless they're Mahiru trial one and too conventionally feminine then the only way their behavior can be justified is if they're beat within an inch of their fucking life-

Mahiru's first trial was a case of god can't women do anything? This Is How To Be In Love With You was literally just her going around town and having fun we didn't even see anyone die and she got voted Guilty. For what because people found her personality clingy and obnoxious. Because she was far too traditionally feminine for people's liking. Yet, people want to cry misogyny for Kotoko.

The one who jumped Mahiru on very little information because it was solely based on a judgement Es made based on multiple assumptions that while not disproven were not all completely true.

Like she clearly wasn't a fucking stalker she knew this person and they were together that was clear from the fucking first song. Even during her second trial Mahiru didn't get the whole gendered excuse of can't women do anything as much as people are trying to force it on Kotoko. The focus was literally on her being injured to shit and getting harshly and hastily judged for literally just being hyper feminine.

Then the only way people could justify her actions in I Love You without taking that into consideration wasn't through engaging with her character fully and discussing her overly sheltered homelife mixed with a clear immense fear of abandonment and inadequacy which lead to unhealthy ways of seeking validation but by infantilizing her and calling her delusional. Something that if tied to her femininity would be inherently sexist.

Then we've been given an even greater example of the gender bias within the Milgram fandom through Yuno and Kazui during round two.

A situation that speaks for itself. Yuno says the person most like her is Kazui with no hesitation or doubt. Stating this about the both of them on her birthday,

"Haha, we both lie, don't we? The difference is the reason for lying. Kazui-san, you lie to protect yourself, because you're important to yourself. For me, no one is particularly important. That includes myself as well."

Bluntly stating that she lies but unlike Kazui who has a reason for her lies she has none. As Yuno has made clear from the beginning, there is no justification for her actions. She doesn't view them as good or bad but as things she just wanted to do. Which is why she's only gotten increasingly upset by the audience attaching justifications to her choices because to her that may just remove the weight of those things being her choices.

She doesn't wish to have these labels attached to her behavior or excuses being made for what she did. She'd much rather beg to be forgiven herself if it came to that than have people that know nothing about her make assertions about her life and reasoning.

Because what's important to Yuno is being true to herself and she doesn't have to care about anyone even herself to just do what she wants to do.

Q.04 What’s the origin of your name?

Haruka: Apparently my parents wanted a girl. It was decided on long before I was born.

Yuno: It means to be kind and true to myself. [TN: Literal meaning of the kanji 優 (yu) and 乃 (no) respectively which make up her name.]

Source: Rochisama

Instead of interacting with that more difficult to grasp part of her character people decided to simplify her once again. Because viewing characters one enjoys as just one thing is simple, it's fun. It's not challenging or messy. Because no one has to bother with those strange technicalities or hypocrisies. They can just sit back and enjoy themselves.

If things are simple, then everyone will have fun. If things are simple, then you won't have to be bothered. If things are simple, then people can still dream. If it's simple, then an apology can just solve everything. It it's simple then it can be put in a way anyway can understand and everyone will want to listen. If it's simple, then you can tell how your life is meant to be but most importantly if it's simple it can still feel good.

Life isn't simple, judging people isn't simple, punishing people isn't simple, looking at things for what they are isn't simple. Because the truth is objective it won't always feel good. Yet, looking away from it in order to spare one's own ego does nothing but allow people's self-induced ignorance the opportunity to grow into someone else's pain.

#milgram #kotoko yuzuriha #so true!

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errorscriber · 7 months

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On "MeMe" as a title

limited commentary-- i'm throwing walls of text at you & bolding parts of it. i think you can connect the dots.

not-in-depth mentions of abuse under the cut.

i think orekoto is an introject of their mother.

"Prisoner 09, Mikoto. ……he just seems kinda normal. I don’t really have anything to say." -- Jackalope

"Next, prisoner number nine, Mikoto Kayano. Male. No unique features about him so I don’t have much to comment on. He’s kinda like mass produced goods." -- Jackalope

"A meme (/miːm/ MEEM) is an idea, behavior, or style that spreads by means of imitation from person to person within a culture and often carries symbolic meaning representing a particular phenomenon or theme. A meme acts as a unit for carrying cultural ideas, symbols, or practices, that can be transmitted from one mind to another through writing, speech, gestures, rituals, or other imitable phenomena with a mimicked theme. Supporters of the concept regard memes as cultural analogues to genes in that they self-replicate, mutate, and respond to selective pressures. In popular language, a meme may refer to an Internet meme, typically an image, that is remixed, copied, and circulated in a shared cultural experience online.

Proponents theorize that memes are a viral phenomenon that may evolve by natural selection in a manner analogous to that of biological evolution. Memes do this through the processes of variation, mutation, competition, and inheritance, each of which influences a meme's reproductive success. Memes spread through the behavior that they generate in their hosts. Memes that propagate less prolifically may become extinct, while others may survive, spread, and (for better or for worse) mutate. Memes that replicate most effectively enjoy more success, and some may replicate effectively even when they prove to be detrimental to the welfare of their hosts.

A field of study called memetics arose in the 1990s to explore the concepts and transmission of memes in terms of an evolutionary model. Criticism from a variety of fronts has challenged the notion that academic study can examine memes empirically. However, developments in neuroimaging may make empirical study possible. Some commentators in the social sciences question the idea that one can meaningfully categorize culture in terms of discrete units, and are especially critical of the biological nature of the theory's underpinnings. Others have argued that this use of the term is the result of a misunderstanding of the original proposal.

The word meme itself is a neologism coined by Richard Dawkins, originating from his 1976 book The Selfish Gene. Dawkins's own position is somewhat ambiguous. He welcomed N. K. Humphrey's suggestion that 'memes should be considered as living structures, not just metaphorically', and proposed to regard memes as 'physically residing in the brain.' Although Dawkins said his original intentions had been simpler, he approved Humphrey's opinion and he endorsed Susan Blackmore's 1999 project to give a scientific theory of memes, complete with predictions and empirical support."

The next two linked websites-- excluding the Mikoto quote-- contain discussions of abuse.

"WHAT IS INTROJECTION?

Introjection is the opposite of projection. Projection occurs when a person projects feelings or characteristics onto another person. Introjection, which is common among children and parents, occurs when a person internalizes the beliefs of other people. A child might take on elements of parents’ personalities or beliefs by adopting their political ideology, concept of right and wrong, or ideas about sex. When people introject, they identify with a person or object so strongly that they cannot separate that person or object from themselves. While everyone learns from the external world and takes on elements of other people’s beliefs and ideas, introjection occurs with minimal thought. A woman who adopts her friends’ views, after they have been carefully explained and considered, is not introjecting, but a child who reflexively adopts a parent’s views without thought can be said to be introjecting.

Introjections involve attitudes, behaviors, emotions, and perceptions that are usually obtained from influential or authoritative people in one’s life. They are neither digested nor analyzed; they are simply adopted as a part of one’s personality as concepts that one considers should be believed or behaviors that one thinks ought to be followed. Introjections do not involve an individual’s personal integrity or morality. "

"I get along well with my mother, she raised me. I can't let her worry." -- Mikoto

"Introject: Introjects are alters that are based off of an outside person or figure. Introjects may or may not see themselves as the individual that they represent. Introjects can be based off a family member or adult caretaker who supported the dissociative child and provided a positive influence on their life, serving as a source of potential positive messages for the child to internalize. Unfortunately, introjects can also be of abusers. Abusive introjects, unlike more positive introjects, provide no comfort or moral compass for the system. Instead, they reenact trauma and abuse, sometimes reinforcing abusers’ lessons to prevent further abuse and sometimes serving as a permanent component of an internal flashback."

"Persecutors are another specific type of protector that are often not seen as such but that protect by harming the system themselves in order to avoid outside harm."

An alter can have both persecutory functions and more obviously protective functions.

"I should have saved you, but why are you crying?" -- Orekoto

I've already posted about this multiple times, but in the first tarot spread in MeMe, the Queen of Swords card is shown both upright and reverse, and it is the challenge card.

"In a general context, the Queen of Swords can represent an older woman in your life who will step in when you are vulnerable and protect you or help you to overcome a problem. It represents being intelligent, sharp witted, witty, honest, truthful and candid. This Minor Arcana card signifies being realistic, discerning or skeptical and it can signify that you will receive constructive criticism from someone and you would do well to listen to it. It can also represent open-mindedness and self-reliance. However, this card can also indicate that you may be suppressing some pain or sadness from past events. As a person, the Queen of Swords represents a mature female or feminine person who is chatty, quirky, forthright and supportive. She may be an air sign such as Aquarius, Gemini or Libra. She is a woman who may have known loss or suffering herself and has gained much inner strength and wisdom from her experiences. She is someone who will always defend those who cannot defend themselves. She has strong empathy and is a great person to have in your corner if you are vulnerable as she will defend you. However, she will not suffer fools gladly and if you are in the wrong, you can expect her to call you out on it without mincing her words! She can have quite a sharp tongue on her at times. She is strong, quick-witted, principled, fair, funny, sophisticated, independent and capable and will not be clingy or needy."

"In a general context, the Queen of Swords reversed can represent not learning from the past or not forgiving the past and using it as a stick to beat others around you with. This card can signify that an older or mature female in your life may try to drag you down by spreading malicious gossip about you or being overly critical of you. It can also be an indication that you are feeling dependent on others or not getting the freedom and independence you crave. This card also represents being dysfunctional or infertile or having a cold or absent mother or an evil step-mother. As a person, the Queen of Swords reversed represents a mature female or feminine person who generally is not a nice character as she can be bitter, cruel, cold, unforgiving and pessimistic. She may be an air sign such as Aquarius, Gemini or Libra. She is a woman who may have known loss or trauma herself which she uses as justification to drag others down. She can be spiteful, nasty, vindictive and vengeful. She may lack empathy for others and can be obsessive and controlling. She is someone who may be overly critical or harsh to the people around her and can come across as rude and very negative in reverse. The Queen of Swords reversed may also be a liar, a cheater, disloyal or just generally deceitful."

#i can see it actually #mikoto kayano

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