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i-got-the-feels · 2 years

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Things I love and can't stop thinking about from The Punisher Season 2

Can Nurture ever win over Nature?

Billy Russo

"I tried. I was there for you, more I can say about smackhead mothers and degenerate fathers. I loved you kids and some of you were happy to love me back. Whatever happened to you, it aint my fault. You can't escape nature. So why are you here. You aint fussy now, that you ain't pretty" - and the rage, hurt, clarity that was seen in Billy eyes (Ben russo, the actor that you are) - and him visiting this person shown after Frank saying Billy would have gone to settle the score. (Also, please note - I am in no supporting any excuses a child abuser makes, this is added to bring out the theme in the show)

"I know what it is that I lost. I had everything that I wanter but I lost it all. Money, power, purpose, my own company, apparently I don't know whats worse loosing it or not even remembering how it felt like to have it. I'd like some of it back"

And he does - just like he did earlier by selling dreams of brotherhood and support - last time he at least pretended it was via legal means, this time he didn't even pretend

Ask yourselves are you willing to be part of something bigger than just yourselves? I am talking about brotherhood. (Similar speech he gave in Season 1 Anvil Recruitment speech)

"You asked which face I wanted the world to see. This face. This face has everything wrong I ever did written all over it. And when I look into the mirror I wanna see best version of myself again. Do you think that thats possible. Possible for someone like me?"

But remember what he described as his best version?

" They were family. Never had that before, you know? Best version of myself in the service. Swift, silent, deadly. We all were all of those things and fighting for something. We weren't afraid of shit. And now there something on the edges of my mind, like a dark shadow just waiting for me. The thing is doc, I think I deserve to feel the fear, I dont why but I know I deserve this - showing that yes Billy may have hesitated in making those bad choices, but given a chance he would still make those bad ones

(who knew maybe story would be different if he had got a more ethical therapist- read more on that here)

With Dinah

"If that backup gun were there"

"Would you shoot me?"

"In a heartbeat. But you are in control. That how you always liked it. You might not remember but you haven't changed. Same psycotic asshole you always were. You used me"

"Maybe. Doesn't mean I didn't like you too" (notice the lack of apology for manipulating and betraying her)

"Frank did this to me. Didn't he?"

" Sorry, who?"

"No no. You don't do that. Cause I know, I know now. Nobody seems to have answeres but I know you do. I know you do. So I need to know how" (notice the lack of apology for shooting her in the head)

"You sold out everything you ever stood for,anybody you ever cared for. And you did it for money and status, left Frank covered in blood of his wife and children. That's who you are" (Throwback to scene from Season 1 in park - the story of his name- the one he chose and the scene where Frank tells him "You lost, Billy. You lost your honor. You lost everything the second you took the money")

"No no"

"Yeah and when he found out, he came after you and made you pay. Now let me ask you something, look in my eyes and tell me am I lying. Frank wanted to live with that on your face everyday. He put all that ugly on the outside where it belongs. Maybe you should do all of us a favour and shoot yourself and finish this. Because Frank will come after you and finish this"

"Did we have good time, Dinah?"

"Look at how much you wanr to kill me now. We definitely did"

"Every night I dreamed about Frank . Every night. Whom did you dream about. At least you will always have the memories- like her earlier said" I envy you. I envy you for having memories. I should know how I felt about you" (again forget acknowledgement of her pain, but further stomping on that pain to have last word)

With Curtis

"Would you believe me if I told you I was sorry?"

"Sorry enough to turn youself in and pay for it?"

"Oh, I paid already, don't you think. I'm never going back. So anyone who comes at me, it's going to be all or nothing. How did this happen to me HOW DID THIS HAPPEN to me" (Like my buddy, you can tell sorry either way to at least show that you are trying to be sincere - the asking shows you ain't genuine)

With/about Frank

"I would give my life for that man. He knows that. So why would a man, I would give my life for, why would, would he try to take mine away from me"

"Maybe he was never was you thought he was" (Krista being a terrible and untethical therapist - part- i lost count of the number time)

"Maybe I am not. Because I am not. I don't remember, I just don't remember. I loved his family. I loved his family. Closest I had to one of my own. So even if I did, what they say I did. Even if. All right, kill me. Don't leave me like this. To carve me up. There is no honor in that. After everything we went through, I deserve more. I deserve more. He won't stop. He won't stop coming. I wouldn't." (again, no apology or taking of responsibility- he is again shoving away the accountability he should be holding himself to. Last season he did so by saying and believing" I told them I wouldn't be a part of it" and this season he does this way)

"He can't find you if he doesn't know where you are"

"But I would l know that I ran. I want him to feel what I felt. I want him to suffer. I want him to hurt" (like I did - "That skull that came in my dream every night. He wears it on his chest. I know now, I know now, it was him but i don't feel it. I know I know but then I don't know. I mean here (head) but not here(heart). And he was my best friend. My best friend. And he was pointing a gun at me" and Frank knows then when he wears his vest and goes to shoot Bill and says "Its not gonna be me who he sees")

And hurt he did

"Break him and then finish him"

"Take away the one thing he has left. That somehow he is better than you"

"I think I know why I was scared. Because i was locked inside in a room with no way out"

and hurting Frank the way he did

"How does it feel to be locked up in a cage like animal? To be locked in room with nothing but your miserbake thoughts to comfort you. Nothing about that pain is temporary (when he asked his guys to Break him and then Finish him and before leaving said - the pain is temporary, Frankie) . Its like waking death. Like burning in hell. You're your own devil now, Frankie boy. And you are no better than me"

and how he manipulated vulnerable men for his cause and wasn't even honest about his intentions and still ensured they fought his fight when he said this "He isn't a cop. He isn't a judge. He doesn't care for flag, fo us, nothing but his purpose."-opposite to Curtis who refused men to do so even when they asked themselves.

Frank Castle

"You can hide your identity. You can't hide who you truly are" - John Pilgrim about Pete Frank Castle.

"You hate standing still. That's why you always looking for a fight. An excuse to keep moving. Standing still, more or less is how life works, in real life at least. Most poeple looking for a place to be happy to stand still. And looking for someone to do it with" - Curtis to Frank

reminded me of Amy saying this

"You were glad to fight- like you finally got the excuse to let go"

"No, I am not the one who dies, kid. I am the one who dies the killing. That's the thing everytime I try to be someone different that's when the wrong people get hurt" - Frank to Amy before he goes to kill John

is callback what he said to Amy, Madani and Curtis in the trailer earlier

"You know if you asked me once, I'd told you was pretty much just like everyone else. You know I really didn't give a shit unless my family was healthy or happy. I lost them. Everything changed. I thought I became something different. Well last night, I had a little chat with my wife. I sat by her grave and realised something. This is who I always was. Maria, she knew, she knew what I was. She loved me any way. I'm not like you people. I can do things you can't do. You know what that makes me? It makes me.. This (looking at The Punisher vest). Let me be me. Let me be me."

And Maria knowing it is a call back to Season 1 scene of

"Where is home frank?"

" Is it here or there (the battlefield)?"

"Its here. With you. You know that."

"No. I don't know that." before he says he won't go on another tour that in this season he describes as "Day they died, I told Maria I was done. I wasn't going back. I had just got home the night before. I woke up and saw her face and it came at me and I knew it was right, felt like this weight got weight lifted off my shoulder. I can hear their laughter. It lived in my heart. And thats all I had. But now thats gone. I can't hear it. Not anymore"

Because just like he said "I am home" before he goes to kill Rawlins - now his home is- in his own words- "I killed them. Sometimes i think that's all i got. Just me and the ghosts"

Father John Pilgrim

This conversation with his wife

"You afraid that man you were is still there?"

"I am afraid. He always will be"

This scenes lets us know when he said this in earlier episode, it was about himself

"Your sin will find you out. Somewhere, sometime every little, every big sin will find you out."

"You know what's brotherhood? Its a defense against weakness. You surround yourself with people who are as pathetic as you are. Its a way to avoid staring your own sins in the face. Brotherhood is a hall of mirros, looking back at you, reflecting your self back at you. But There comes a time where you gotta smash the mirrors and look inside and decide "Who am I? What kind of man am I?" you gotta understand your own true nature and use it. You gotta understand what requires to change. Who amongst us can look at themselves without shame"

Amy Bendix

"The only way to win the game is to not play it"

"Just because someone says something is true,doesn't mean that it us. Even if you wanna believe them. Even if you wanna keep believing them. Even if they believe it themselves. In the end you have to admit they are lying, change hour own path because people never change. They just hide stuff, lie to you and keep letting you down, over and over again. And so you have to decide, do i stay or change the path for myself "

Difference Between Frank and Billy

This conversation between Madani and Krista highlight it

"He has murdered people. Wants to murder Billy Russo"

"Never innocent (people)"

"Who decides who is innocent?"

"I have seen him risk his life without second thought to save women and kids"

"So he is exempt because archaic idea of chivalry?"

"No he is exempt because if he did things Billy did he would feel like he is burning in hell"

and he did when Frank thought he murdered those women this is how he reacted

"I didn't care. I would have killed anything that got in my way. The pieces of shit, I killed, if they deserved to die so do I"

This quote by Krista used as exploration point of two characters - "I wonder why stronger the man, the lesser they are to admit their pain and ask for help" in conversation between Frank and Curtis on difference between Frank and Billy.

"I should have seen maybe I could have helped him".

"When have you known Billy Russo to ask for help?"

"When have I ever asked for help?"

"Cut it out. Billy was lying the whole time. Maybe he didn't know it, but there was something different, he was empty (throwback to Season 1 Frank himself saying - it was always about cars, moneya women for you, wasn't it?) That's the difference, Frank. You give a shit about people, he doesn't. He was most natural marine I have ever seen, other than you, Frank. It wasn't war that twisted Billy. It was greed" (S1 - Billy saying - The only crime in war is to loose)

How Frank ensures that no one has to live the hell he lives

In Season 1 he saved Liberman, in this he saves Amy and Father John.

With John

"They have my sons" .

"I understand you didn't have a chance to save your kids"

"If you did, what would have done?"

"I'd have done any thing"

"Here we are"

"When you kill them , don't hurt my boys"

"I know who you are. You are the whirlwind"

With Amy

"That's what life is now, alive or dead, them or us? "

"I'll try, ill try that life is different for you, kid"

Because he remembers what he told her when he got to know about her situation and later she of his-

"He killed everbody I ever cared about. How do you think that feels?"

"So what do you wanna do about it?"

"Do about it? They are dead. Gone"

"Now they are after me"

"Sometimes, you gotta fight kid. You take the fight to them"

"They killed your whole family in front of you.Why didn't you tell me that? And you killed them for it?"

"Yeah that's right"

"Did it make you feel better? "

"Sometimes "

But he is STILL living life as it if is hell, as if it is a war as seen in his this scene with Madani

Listen Madani , you are right. I could just kill him and walk away. But that doesn't mean its easy. I can live with it, yeah, i can live with anything. There is no peace up here. There is no happy medium I am looking for. War is not easy.

"War? War? Listen to yourself. It's not some foreign country and guys you never met shooting you. It's home. It's different"

"Is that right? "

"It has to be different"

"Tell that to my wife and kids"

Frank Castle - The child protector

Frank not killing Rex's innocence by telling him about death but also not letting Beth move over the topic and thwarting his curiosity

"You didn't kill him. You shot him. I killed him- (puts another bullet into him)I killed him. I killed him. No you just shot him I killed him. Right. Yeah."

because she shot him because of what he had said to her earlier

"You took a gun off somebody who wanted to use it on you. What do you do? You use it on them. No matter who, don't hesitate"

Beating and torturing the dude who was involved in child pronography and Amy knowing how difficult it is to not kill him and says, "Hey, I am touched. I tryly am. If it makes you feel any better, you can burn the place down"

"Nothing to loose a sleep over child molester and neither should you"- Frank Castle to Dinah Madani over Billy Russo Killing his molester

Madani speaking her mind no matter how messy/complicated.

Her final conversation with Krista Dumont

"I am sorry"

"Which part?"

"Billy dragging you into this"

"He didn't drag me into any thing. I love him"

"Putting three bullets in helped my state of mind. You see the blood? Yes, that's his. He is alone, bleeding and dying"

"He'll kill you for what you did to me"

"Oh you did this to yourself"

On being stuck in the past

"He was there that night?"

"The three of us. Maybe we still are"

- A conversation between Krista Dumont and Dinah Madadni

"Let's just say I was like you. Follow the rules tell the truth and justice will be served. I learned different. Sometimes maybe someone like castle is the closest to justice we get" - Dinah Madani to Brett Mahoney

"They don't tell you fighting for what you believe in will ruin your life because belief doesn't stop a bullet" - Dinah Madani in Curtis's PTSD therapy group.

On what she wants to happen to Billy.

"Why did you vist him day and night in hospital? You were tempted to out him down right?"

"Never"

"Why aren't you interviewing Curtis in an interview room with your Homeland lackeys around. Why am I here? Its because you know this only ends with Billy dead and that's why I am her to convince you that its okay to want this"

"No"

This conversation between Marion James and Dinah Madani

"Castle and Russo-useful until they develop a mind of their own. Let Castle and Russo deal with each other and finish their little psychodrama"

"So CIA operates on home soil until they aren't pulling the trigger" - A

On truth and how much of it is out there

"People deserve the truth"

"You can call her back and tell her everything- Rawlins , Zubair , Russo . I don't know about justice but the truth would be out there but you and Castle would bear the brunt of it"

but she did say the truth, the necessary one

"Sam Stein warned me against Russo. I ignored his warnings and it got him killed"

I'm jealous of them both. Neither of them give a shit. With purity of purpose.

Men think they are tougher than us. Too many of us believe it. Its bullshit. They are just better at forgiving themselves than we are.

Frank isn't a criminal. He isn't a hero either.He is just frank, that's who he is

Frank Castle and Sense of Duty

Castle compliment Odgen "What you did was brave. As brave as anyone I ever saw"

(what Odgen did - I made an oath in front of God, I intend to keep it)

This conversation between Dinah Madani and Frank Castle

"What am I doing carrying this badge?"

" I can’t answer that for you"

You do what you need to do - said throughout the seasons who came on to him while doing their duty - including Dinah Madani, Brett Mahoney, the young soldier who tried to stop Frank from running away from Col Benett's house

Parallels that don't fit a theme and Quotes/Scenes I loved

"Sometimes things make decisions for you" /"You know, kid, Sometimes you find things and they change your life" - Frank Castle, beginning of the season/Episode 13

"Too much real life for a travelling man?" /"So How far did you get?" - Beth Quinn to Frank Castle (because she knows he is used to running and Curtis's he would rather stay angry at world and be part of it and he cannot stand sill and needs to keep moving)

His love for his Maria and kids

"Got someone with porch light on?"

"Wouldn't be here then"

His ring necklace, how he didn't let her touch it when they were making love.

"They were taken from me" - A conversation between Beth Quinn and Frank Castle (also I loved how the sex scene wasn't continuous and their conversation was shown in between because them two getting together was about two wandering souls meeting rather than just a physical thing)

I should throw you out right now. Somehow, I dont feel like I need to/ I don't why I let you in. My best answer is it semeed like the right thing to do - Beth Quinn/ Krista Dumont

"My patients alleged crimes are not my concern. Only his health"- Krista Dumont to Dinah Madani

Beth stretching out the time, the nervousness to tell Frank's fake name to Pilgrim. What a badass.

"The world would come to stop without it technology" "We can hope" - John Pilgrim to his tech dude

Amy thanking Odgen

Amy going under the bed to sleep, cry ans Frank hearing it

"Hang in there. As if we had a choice" - Billy Russo

"Whatever it is that you wanted him to live with, you knocked it clean out of his head. And thats the irony. Now everybody but him has to live with what he did. And what you did too"- Curtis Hoyle to Frank Castle

"I wish you had that (a loving family and safe home- a good childhood) . I am sorry you didn't" Frank Castle to Billy Russk

"Just got to make sure are the dealer" Castle / "You know its a trap and still going?" "Yeah . It's my trap. At least I know what's coming" - Two conversations between Amy Bendix and Frank Castle

The editing/ visual effects of nightmares paralleling to Madani opening eyes waking up from one.

"Count five blue things" - Krista Dumont to Billy Russo

"I have made peace with all of it. The sadness and fear in my husband's and children's eyes, except, I know this prideful and selfish but the last thing I want to see in this world is you" - John's wife's last wish (and her not getting that because of two rich homophobic asshole fucking sucked, okay??)

"My dad wanted me to learn about justice. Instead I learned about power" - Poloznev to Frank Castle

"Cops and criminals (are similar) .Control over actions.Control over consequence. Control over other people. And most of all, they craved control over themselves" - Krista Dumont to Brett Mahoney

"You said you did this to me Frank ? I said did you did this to me?" "You God damn right I did" - His eyes. His breathing. His acting - Billy Russo on knowing who the skull of his nightmare belongs to.

"You see Frank, you tell people to stay out if it but they care about you. Whether you like it or not. And I wasn't abuout to see you die" - Curtis Hoyle to Frank Castle

"When I saw Bill . He looked at me like nothing had changed. Like we were still friends. When he drew on him, he was shocked. He looked confused. He looked hurt. Like I betrayed him. I looked at his face and saw Maria , I saw the kids and how we used to be together, we were family. And i swear to God he saw it too. I'll tell you rught now Curtis he does not know what he did. He doesn't , I saw that. I had the shot and I froze. It was just for a second but it was too late.

"I had a shot. When he was on streets coming at you, I had a shot. I could have killed him"- Frank Castle to Curtis Hoyle

"You want ger to act normal? There is no normal around you" / "We are not playing games, cCurt. You make mistake and peoole die. They die. I dropped a ball and You did too and a man died" - Frank and Curtis when Frank scared Amy.

"Because I hate beginnings. That awkward false state of everything. You and I didn't have to suffer that. We started in the middle looking forwards, you and I- Krista Dumont to Billy Russ"/ AND Frank shooting Billy in the middle of "apology" because they have lived through awkward beginnings and beautiful middle and tragic almost ends so he knows where Billy is going.

"Maybe everbody wants to make feel someone worse than they do. Maybe everybody gets betrayed in the end" / "Everyone is lonely. We are just fighting hard to not be lonely - Billy Russo/ Karen Page"

"He was one of the one's that killed Frank's family, wasn't he?" "Yeah the worst one because they were his family too" - A conversation between Curtis Hoyle and Amy Bendix.

"You know this can't last forever . You are too smart to not to. But that doesn't mean we can't make plans for after. At some point , enough's got to be enough. It has to be for something" / "I want you to have an after, Frank" - Krista Dumont to Billy Russo/Karen Page to Frank Castle.

"Humans aren't ruled by logic. We try to, we want to but at the end its insticts and emotions and then we justify ourselves afterwards. Even you. Even me" - The justifications Krista Dumont uses makes herself believe that what she did is okay

"I wasn't lost. I was found" / "Frank didn't take anything from you, he gave you, us a second chance" - John Pilgrim/Krista Dumont.

"I know you hated pulling the trigger but that kept you alive" / "Sometimes the difference between alive and dead is if you are willing and able to pull the trigger" - Frank Castle to Amy Bendix / Karen Page to Senator Ori

"I think if there is hell, that's what it would be. An eternity spent facing our own failings" - Krista Dumont to Dinah Madani.

And finally

"Billy russo chases power because he believes is worthless and unlovable.

Frank castle, he does terrible things but still wants to believe he is good

I believe despite all evidence to contray, one day I will free one of you from yours" (maybe even my own one day- goes unsaid) - Krista Dumont to Dinah Madani.

Season 1

#the punisher season 2 #show review #the punisher #frank castle #billy russo #curtis hoyle #dinah madani #krista dumont #john pilgrim #jon bernthal #ben barnes #amber rose #floriana lima #josh stewart #nmcu #netflix marvel #marvel cinematic universe #mcu

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