#brutally honest opinion asoiaf edition

[reginarubie]

For the brutally honest ship opinion, what do you think of Viserys/Aemma? Fandom has romanticized them so much (and so has the show), but I just can't get over the fact that Aemma begged him to stop, crying that she doesn't want to die, while Viserys cut her in two for his male heir. She also mentioned that she doesn't want to go through the ordeal of pregnancy again, implying reproductive abuse that Viserys repeated with Allicent. Fandom is determined to make him Ned 2.0, but I don't see it

Ciao nonny,

For my brutally honest opinion about Aemma/Viserys…

… people really romanticise them so much? I mean the scene about her death is on the top three of unwatchable/unreadable scenes of the whole franchise (GoT and HotD). It’s up there with Talisa’s death in GoT and the mention of the way Elia was killed in asoiaf and the grief and vengeance Oberyn and Doran still feel for it.

Or maybe I am just overly sensitive over it because I am a woman and seeing people killing a babe in the womb and the mother or opening a woman to get the child out of her… it was crude and raw and whilst plausible of the time and characters is in my opinion unwatchable and kinds of make unredeemable the men involved.

Aemma begged for her life, and whilst it’s true she might have died anyway and this way the babe would have a chance, for how little… she pleaded, she begged him, told him she wanted to live, and he ignored that to get his son.

He didn’t even comfort her properly. He just ignored her fear, her pain and her terror. The whole exchange they have before the birth also enlightens us to the sheer abuse Aemma suffered and accepted because they taught her it was her duty to give him male heirs (‘the queen was ever mindful of her duty’)

The same abuse, but worsened, that Alicent suffered. Because not only she suffers that very same abuse, but she manages to give him three sons. All healthy and living through infanthood and into adulthood. She does her duty, as a wife and mother and still Viserys overlooks the sons she gave him in favour of Rhaenyra.

She suffers that abuse, she overcomes it, she does her duty and manages to give him what he wanted and still her children are almost nothing to him.

Even on his bed, during his illness he calls Rhaenyra “my only child” as if he doesn’t consider Alicent’s children as his, the sons he so much wanted and that she gave him. He forces himself to hold court to defend Rhaenyra, he would not have done the same for any of Alicent’s children.

He ignores his own son’s cut/off eye because Rhaenyra’s honour was put in discussion for the truth.

And whilst Viserys might have done well by Rhaenyra (defending her beyond defence, and loving her and making up for the years he overlooked her) he does not do the same for his other children.

And whilst in Fire and Blood it’s said that before dying he spent an evening with Helaena and his grandchildren, telling them stories that was cut off from the show and for good reason since he’s barely seen interacting with any of his children by Alicent if not to defend Rhaenyra.

Also, people like to think him of the new Ned because of the way they framed his interactions with Rhaenyra (which reminds them of Ned/Arya)… and it was intentional, and in some ways it was similar (Viserys laughing with her about her quirks and being indulgent with her, his rage but love even though Rhaenyra is being difficult for the standards of the time and context, his unwavering support of her claim despite her dishonourable for the context and time actions).

Though if they are paralleling him and Aemma with Ned “my lady you’re holding your hands strangely, who harmed you?” Stark and Catelyn “Ned loves my hair” Stark I’m gonna throw a right fit.

Anyone who knows me a little bit knows I adore Ned and Cat, despite their fragilities and faults… and to even anyone is imagining Viserys could be paralleled with Ned outside of the Ned/Arya parallel they are severely mistaken.

Even worse if they want to parallel Viserys “I want so badly a son that I'm going to have it at any cost (my wife's life cost), then when I have him I'm gone ignore him” with Ned fucking Stark who raised and loved the son of a man he most probably hated who might have or not abducted his sister, and has for sure secluded her away from her family against which he was fighting because of the love he bore his sister, protecting him even against his own best friend... I don't think they have been paying attention.

Since this can become pretty difficult and also triggering I'm putting the rest under the cut.

I give you the antithesis. Ned Stark with Lyanna Stark and Viserys Targaryen with Aemma Arryn and if any of you wants to argue that that doesn't count because it should be between Ned and Cat and Viserys and Aemma just remember that:

Lyanna had only been sixteen, a child-woman of surpassing loveliness. Ned had loved her with all his heart.  — Eddard I, AGOT

Whoever Jon's mother had been, Ned must have loved her fiercely, for nothing Catelyn said would persuade him to send the boy away. — Catelyn II, AGOT

So, just shut the hell up if you're gonna argue Ned&Lyanna are not good term of paragon, also because we don't know what exactly caused Lyanna to bleed to death, she could've had a difficult birth same as Aemma did, she could have had a premature birth (like it happened with Visenya daughter of Rhaenyra), so many things could've gone wrong, still it is about a woman laying on her deathbed, during the birth of her son and the man who loves her standing beside her as she dies.

Ned and Lyanna So, the scenes begins with Ned running up the stairs of the Tower of Joy to reach a screaming Lyanna. When he barges through the door Lyanna is shown in a bed of blood, her whole middle covered in vivid blood, sweaty and pale, scared, delirious. Yet she recognizes her brother, whom she loves and missed even though delirious, and she's so much out of it that in a first moment she is afraid he might be a dream.

What does Ned does? He abandons his sword at the feet of the bed and runs to his sister's bedside, kneeling at her side and when Lyanna asks him if he's a dream, Ned assures her that no, he's not a dream and he's really there and to drive the point through he grabs her hand.

Then, as he caresses her forehead and holds her hand, she tells him she missed him and Ned, who has fought a bloody war, has lost his father and brother both because of Aerys, tenderly tells her he missed her too.

He does all he can to comfort her.

And when Lyanna tells him she wants to brave, even though he is holding back his tears he tells her she is.

Lyanna is clearly terrorized, not only has she just given birth mostly alone after months of seclusion and possibly abuse; not only with the grief of her father and brother dying because of Aerys madness and her situation with the fear for the man she loved (? maybe) and the other people she loved for sure (her brothers and her mother); she knows she's about to die so we can only imagine how difficult and traumatic the birth might have been for her; she's scared for herself and she's terrorized for her son who faces a terrible death if word ever got out of who he is.

What does Ned does? He tells her she's not going to die (comforts himself as much as he is comforting her) and goes out of his way to try and save her (demands water for her, which is a kindness and a help for women who have just went through childbirth; and demands she's seen by a maester, asking for his presence and apparently Rhaegar left his pregnant lover/wife without Maester? Anyway digressing). Lyanna on the other hand knows what it is that truly scares her, Jon's fate.

So she begs him to listen to her and he does. She begs him to protect her boy, to promise to protect him. She entrusts her son in his arms, and by Ned's words themselves:

He could hear her still at times. Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister's eyes. Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black. After that he remembered nothing. They had found him still holding her body, silent with grief. The little crannogman, Howland Reed, had taken her hand from his. Ned could recall none of it. — Eddard I, AGOT

Another proof of how much Ned loved her is that he remembers perfectly Lyanna's last words, the way she died comforted by the truth her brother would protect her son, and thus her son was safe from any harm, but from that moment on (until presumably he was given Jon) he had held onto Lyanna, and he was so grief-stricken he could not recall what happened until Howland Reed had disentangled him from his sister.

Arguably Ned in the end did everything and more to ensure Lyanna died peacefully. Aemma would've probably died anyway (and both Lyanna and Aemma were put in a situation in which childbirth was even more dangerous than normal by their Targaryen husbands/lovers abusers for some damn prophecy, the same one mind you) yet Viserys failed not only for the sheer abuse he put her through (which I have already said) but for the way he handled the moment of her death. Viserys failed miserably where Ned managed the only possible success that day, ensuring his sister had peace as she died and ensuring her last wish was honored by keeping her child safe.

Again, Aemma might have died anyway, but first of all Viserys put her in that condition, despite being aware that their pregnancy had been always difficult and took a toll on her health, despite know how much it hurt and weighted on her. Still, Viserys didn't even manage to comfort his own wife, I'm pretty sure they could've given her milk of the poppy to ensure that she did not feel as much the pain and also making sure she staid still, something that did not happen. Aemma fought as Viserys and the midwives kept her still and down. She fought to survive, she fought because she didn't want to die and no one comforted her.

And I've cut out the worst of Aemma's death scene, the part in which she struggled and fought, and pleaded and begged to be listened to, to be comforted, to be helped, to be saved. Because as I've said it's pretty hard for me to see, and I think it might be pretty hard for anyone with a bit of sensibility.

Tbh, both men were put in a terrible situation, the difference?

Ned was not the one to put Lyanna in that situation to begin with, and especially from what we know of his character he would not have put his wife in that situation either. The Stark motto ‘Winter is coming’ is as much as a prophecy as ‘the dragon dream’, still Ned did not live his whole life with the only intention to father children that would defend the North. His children defended the North because Ned taught them their duty. Males and females.

Ned managed to comfort his dying sister, Viserys did not comfort his dying wife. Or did not find the right key to comfort her. Aemma died afraid and struggling to save herself. Lyanna died peacefully knowing her family still loved her, that they loved her enough to look beyond the parentage of her son to keep him safe because of the love they had for her. That Ned bore her.

Put into an impossible situation, Ned managed to do the only thing he could do. He made sure his sister died peacefully and feeling loved, knowing her son safe.

Aemma died struggling for her life, her child being torn from her womb at her husband's choice, fearful for the fate of the child she was carrying and grief stricken for all the grief the pregnancies duty and Viserys imposed on her caused.

So yeah, we respect no man who would put his wife/lover/woman through all of that for any reason, even less for a damn prophecy (you'll find no apologist's behavior toward Rhaegar and Viserys here) in this household.

Tbh considering him the new Ned means people have not really paid attention to the whole matter. Viserys is the new Rhaegar and the abuse Aemma and Alicent suffered is the same abuse Elia and Lyanna suffered at Rhaegar's hands.

So, yeah, this turned pretty long...but I really, really hate this paragon and I really don't think people should overlook the abuse Viserys put Aemma and Alicent through only because his love stories (especially the one with Aemma) are shown only by his eyes. It's a POV trap which makes you believe that the love he bore Aemma is enough to overlook the abuse he doesn't see as such. But it is there.

And if people wanna parallel Viserys (aka Rhaegar 2.0) to Ned… I just have to say

As always, thank you for your ask! And sending all my love ~G.

#ask the hag #anon asks #viserys and aemma #viserys and ned are not parallels #viserys I is the new rhaegar pass it on #viserys/aemma is not a good pair #brutally honest opinion #brutally honest opinion ship edition #brutally honest opinion asoiaf edition #the hag's brutally honest opinions

[reginarubie]

If anything, Ned should be compared to Otto like these two dudes pushed their daughter to royalty for their own gain. At least Otto knows how to play the game, Ned just placed Sansa in the pit of vipers without any protection and lol haters still hate her for causing Ned to die? What 😆

Cia’ anon,

If you truly think the load of bullsh*t you have written you might have not paid attention neither to the series neither to the books. But, in good faith you truly are misconstruing I will explain my point of view.

Ned Stark did not want to go South, dude was traumatised by the South, and had refused Bobby B offer the moment it was uttered (pertaining both his naming to lord Hand and the marriage between Joffrey and Sansa). It’s Catelyn who convinces him of the need of him to go South to discover the truth after Lysa’s allegations became known about the death of Jon Arryn and thus accept Robert’s proposal.

Also, they betrothed, to be married when Sansa was old enough, a girl of 11 to a boy of 13/14. Also they betrothed a prince (not a king) to the daughter of the Warden of the North, who was one of the few eligible candidates for Joffrey’s hand.

Which is very much different than Viserys/Alicent both in the book and in the show (by book canon Alicent was 18 and Viserys almost 30, still big age gap but acceptable for the context… whilst in the show they gave us a forty something man and a girl of 16-18) in both cases Alicent/Viserys have a bigger age gap than Sansa/Joffrey and also a big gap in the experiences they led. Also Alicent was not near enough the best eligible match for Viserys, tho others would have been every worse on other aspects.

Viserys was a man grown, married already once and with a child and several failed pregnancies or children dead on his shoulders, whilst Alicent was a maiden of barely 18. Sansa and Joffrey were both very young, a teen and a very young teen (last of the pre-teen years) and inexperienced in the same way.

So no there is no bloody similarity between the match Otto brokered between Alicent and Viserys and the one Ned accepted between Sansa and Joffrey.

Also, the moment Ned realised the truth, and I mean the very same moment, he works to get his daughters (both of them) out of KL which meant breaking the betrothal between Sansa and Joffrey and he tells her as much, promising her a match worth of her. And he failed, dude failed so fucking hard, because he told Cersei expecting she rolled over and died, and let her children be haunted and robbed of what she feels is their birthright. He alerted his enemies of his future moves and they anticipated him and incapacitated him.

Also, Sansa had no part in Ned’s imprisonment or death. Or, what little part she had (little and almost completely non influential in the matter of things) was caused by Ned himself, as I have explained in the blaming game part II .

Ned went in a nest of vipers himself, he did play his cards wrong but dude had a goal in mind his whole life after the Rebellion. He did not play the game with the throne in mind, he played the game with the safety of his family in mind. He tells Catelyn to return North and prepare for war, to defend his people and his family.

And yeah, Ned played his cards wrong, but dude got one goal and he reached it. To this day no one but Howland Reed knows the truth about Jon’s parentage, hence the boy is safe. He swallowed his pride and honour to try and save Sansa.

Of the six children Ned Stark raised in his home, four are currently alive and kicking, laying low and sharpening their weapons to return for justice (Sansa in the Vale sharpening her wit and natural political suavity; Arya in Braavos learning to be a Faceless Assassin and learning the difference between vengeance and justice; Bran beyond the Wall honing his skills as green seerer and warg and never forgetting his duty; Rickon on a cannibal island with unicorns gathering better knowledge of people different from him and how to work together; Jon learned how to manipulate the situation he finds himself in to do his duty and gathering support against the enemies around them) and let’s count also Jon since we know he’s to be resurrected, so to six, he has five children ready to come back for justice and defend the North and do their duty.

In the game of thrones, you always claim half a victory. Robert got the throne but lost the woman he gained it for, Ned got most of his family alive but they are traumatised, Catelyn got to return and have vengeance for her family but it’s all an illusion and she lost herself completely…) there is no clear winning in the game of thrones. Bran got his skills but lost his legs, Sansa learned how to survive but she lost almost everything, same as Arya. Bran and Sansa got the throne, but Bran possibly in the books will get it after he sacrifices his powers and thus the ability to move permanently; Sansa became queen in the North but lost her dream (for now), Daenerys got the throne for a moment and she lost herself and everything; Cersei got the throne but lost all she cared for.

Yes, Ned could’ve played his cards better, he should have, much of his downfall was caused by his own stupid mistakes, but stop the slander.

If anyone is like Otto, that is Olenna Tyrell, who manipulated to get her granddaughter to marry a king she knows is gay so won’t make her happy to further her family’s position and later she chose another king whom she killed to get her granddaughter betrothed to a child who is more easily manipulated. Let’s say the truth:

Olenna and the Tyrells try to use Margaery apparent resemblance to Lyanna Stark to have Cersei exposed and Margaery married. Robert, a man who could be her father, also known to have a great number of bastards all so Margaery would become queen.

Bobby B died and Olenna and the Tyrells married Margaery to Renly who, again was pretty much older than her and gay, all because this way Margaery would be queen.

Renly died and the Tyrells betrothed her to Joffrey a king known for his cruelty and rumoured to be a bastard, all so that Margaery would be queen.

They killed Joffrey off (Joffrey who was around her age, so a possible good match for her, had he not been a cruel boy) because he would’ve been cruel and unstable and not easily influenced, and betrothed her to Tommen whom she basically starts to groom, who is a child and who has little to none experience whilst Margaery is older and more experienced. All because so Margaery could be queen to a king who would be easily influenced by her.

So, if anyone should be compared to Otto we have LF and especially Olenna and the Tyrells, certainly not Ned Stark whom as soon as he realised the truth decided to break off the betrothal and get his daughter back home, and who, again had betrothed his daughter to a boy around her age (perfectly acceptable for time and context) and who was a good match for the context and time and who was not far more experience than her by what he knew. And, as soon as the boy cruelty started to be seen, his bastardy was known and the truth of the war that would happened set into his mind Ned moved to get his daughter back home where she would’ve been safe, he just played his cards wrong.

And that is the truth we get by analysing both books and series. So, yes, if you truly believe what you’ve written I think you need a re-read and a re-watch.

Also, (dis)honourable mention to Corlys Velaryon who was a 37man marrying a 16yo princess for her position and because she fell in love with him, and supported Rhaenyra who was suspected of having played a part in his son’s death and her bastard children by another man all for his ambition by betrothing his true born granddaughters to them to get House Velaryon on the Iron throne permanently. As suggested by anon, here.

But, thank you for the ask (it was good to set straight a couple of points) and please stop it with the Ned Stark slander. It doesn’t make you look good to say things so easily disproved!

I hope you have a very nice day! ~G.

#stop it with the Ned Stark slander #brutally honest opinions #the hag’s brutally honest opinion #Ned Stark #ask the hag #anon asks #brutally honest opinion asoiaf edition

[reginarubie]

I like your brutally honest thoughts on ship. Reading your thoughts I wanted to say something. You can disagree with this. I felt show Sansaery wrong in other ways. Sansa(14) and Sophie(16 I guess) were minor in s3. Marg might be 18-20 while Natalie was in her early 20s something. It was clear that Marg was manipulating Sansa more in lines with Olenna but she also was fond of her. Her line about Sansa could enjoy Tyrion in bed feels wrong to me even she said in good intention. Sansa was seen naive in the whole situation. Basically reminding me of how Cersei told her periods, babies and bedding. Then later Marg was shown to seducing Tommen with sex was icky to me. Many started shipping Sansaery because of the show. I feel it will have some grooming aspects considering Sansa age if they go along with it. Sorry for this long rant. I hope I don't sound rude. It's just I wanted to share opinion.

Ciao anon!,

First of all thank you! I am happy you like my brutally honest opinions!

post being referenced to, this one. In which I explained why I think Sansaery works only outside of canon, and not inside of it. It's true that most have started to ship them because of the show, tho, as I've said Sansa's book quote of “Margaery's kindness had been unfailing and her presence had changed everything” it's pretty potent one, but it also showers light over the fact that it's all a manipulation on Margaery's part for however fond of Sansa she may have grown, because Sansa had been treated like a social pariah after Ned's execution, and she is finally able to spend time outside of the Red Keep thanks to Margaery as well as being welcomed in a circle of girls around her age...

...even though even that is soured by her “they have no interest to know me” vibe, which is right, as it is all part of Margaery plan to give Sansa what she had lacked since she had been alone, an hostage in KL after Ned's execution.

Margaery's manipulation is a gentle one, but a manipulation it still is, no matter if the Tyrells actually grew fond of the Sansa, especially since Olenna had no problems framing Sansa for Joffrey's murder, no matter the consequences that could've taken place if LF had not been obsessed with her and Cat.

And even then, Olenna is a smart woman, I have no doubt she might have had a inkling of LF less than savory intentions toward her and what more she would not have relinquished the hold of the key to the North so easily. Possibly she had planned to use the Tyrell's influence to get Sansa to walk out of the trial innocent, at that point with Tyrion taken out of the equation the key to the North would be again free for the taking, and the Tyrells would have been looked at favorably as they had helped the girl and that would've meant gaining Sansa's gratitude and loyalty.

They treated Sansa as a coveted piece of their board game, they wanted her but had no remorse in using her as they saw fit. They may have grown fond of her, but were always ready to sacrifice her if it came to that.

Kindness can be a weapon as much as any other, especially when wielded for one's purposes, which is what the Tyrells (Margaery included) did. Never forget they had been aiming for the Iron throne long before Ned even stepped in KL, to the point Renly showed him a painting of Margaery asking him if she bore any resemblance to Lyanna Stark, in hope they might manage to uncover Cersei's lies and put Margaery on the throne representing a willing Lyanna Stark in Robert's mind.

The fact that they use kindness on the people they mean to use, sours all the more any genuine fondness that may have grown. Also, I don't doubt they would have treated Sansa well if she ever became a Tyrell and she might even fall in love with Willas and she would be the wife of the Lord of the Reach, so it was scarcely in those times a bad match especially in that context, still if we're talking of shipping there are too many shady points imo.

Also, I had not considered it that way, but yes...grooming in a way could also be applied as a definition to what Margaery did to Tommen in the show and to what she could've done to Sansa. In the books it's more nuanced, but still Cersei worries that Margaery is doing exactly that...Tommen is even younger in the books and Cersei realizes that Margaery manipulates him way better than she could have Joffrey, because he is more pliant and less dangerous.

So yeah, icky.

Don't worry! I enjoyed reading your opinion and never worry about expressing your opinion. I want my tumblr to be a safe heaven for anyone (whatever they ship and whatever their fav character) as long as we are polite and you certainly were. Nothing rude about your opinion, don't worry!

Anzi, thank you for sharing, nonny!, I had not considered that angle but it fits.

I hope you have an amazing day!

#ask the hag #anon asks #brutally honest opinion #asoiaf edition