#but i do think this is going to be a V important relationship in s12

[scoobydoodean]

i think it’s kinda funny how you don’t have some sort of online handle except your urls, so i can only ever address you as like dftsam. anyway i saw a take that said cas “learned” to feel unloved from dean, from the way dean treated him basically - an example they gave was dean looking away when cas said I love you as he was dying in s12 - and it seemed there were a lot of people agreeing with it. i’m not one of them, but if you were interested (only if you’d wanna talk about it, I’d get it if you didn’t) I’d love to get you thoughts on this idea?

So I read this at like 1-2 AM lying in bed and I was like this:

I find it so fucking funny when people start in on this shit, because Dean girls and Cas girls can do this to each other all day long. “Dean made Cas feel unloved” “Cas made Dean feel unloved”. You can build a framework for either (BOTH) by cherrypicking scenes to suit a narrative. Like. I can easily say that Cas repeatedly sent a message, regardless of his intentions, that Dean’s feelings don’t mean jack shit to him. I prefer to take things with humor and just understand where Cas’s issues are coming from (just like Dean—who makes his best effort to understand Cas; just like Cas makes his best effort to understand Dean) rather than get mad and demonize him so I can be angsty about Dean always feeling "unloved"… but the guy… look—making no effort to explain why he is like this at this moment (because Cas apologism is absolutely not the point of this ask) Cas is known to do the following:

Control the means of communication. You will pretty much never see Dean ghost Cas. Even when Dean was forced to kick him out, he checked up on him to make sure he was okay. But Cas will knowingly and intentionally ghost Dean’s prayers and calls for days and weeks at a time on repeat through their ENTIRE RELATIONSHIP. Dean has expressed that this upsets him more than once, but Cas continues to do it. Every once in a while he’ll throw in a half-assed apology sure—but it doesn’t mean anything. He’s going to do the thing he’s apologizing for again as soon as he’s decided he doesn’t want to face Dean’s questions or doesn’t want him involved yet again. Which means 1) he isn't actually sorry 2) how it makes Dean feel is not important to him or else he'd stop doing it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Keep secrets about bad things going on CONSTANTLY. Over and over and over and over… then Dean is still the one who ends up apologizing for getting mad about it. Rinse, repeat.

(Often) Refuse to be a team player in an effort to keep Sam and Dean out of harms way over the things he has personally decided are too dangerous for them, without ever letting them have a say, because he has unilaterally decided they are too tiny and soft and he needs to fall on a sword when no one asked him to and no one WANTS HIM TO. A lot of people want to turn this into bemoaning Castiel's constant unappreciated sacrifices, but this is so unbelievably shortsighted of a take. He is attempting to relate to Dean, a person who believes he is poison and that loving him gets people killed, by attempting to fucking martyr himself over and over and OVER. Dean doesn't WANT it, and it isn't NECESSARY 99% of the time if Cas would just WORK AS A TEAM.

Urges Dean to co-parent children who he feels he has personal obligations to twice.

Who does that remind you of? Because I know who it reminds me of, but people don’t want to read that meta—or about how Cas traded out his car for a truck (who else did that?), or about how your last words before a sacrifice can haunt a person and rip them open in ways you never intended. Of course Cas isn’t that guy… but I bet my ass Dean sure as hell sees the shades of him.. I do think it is an intentional decision to frame Cas in the late seasons after another person who also made Dean feel very unloved and unwanted—not in the big things like big grand sacrifices—but in the small things—the day to day things that slowly strangle a relationship to death—like making unilateral decisions for everyone and not answering the goddamn phone. (Edit here: I do NOT mean that Cas is intentionally being framed as CRUEL and EVIL. I mean that he is intentionally being paralleled with this person. Dean and Sam are also paralleled with that person in different ways at various points and it doesn't mean any of them are evil irredeemable villains. They just have some obvious hangups and the way this particular one for Cas ends up manifesting is probably pretty difficult for Dean and probably makes him think of how that other person behaved and how it made him feel).

Dean didn’t react right when Cas said I love you in season 12? Well. That’s debatable. But going on the offensive first before the defensive: Cas only wants to say this on his deathbed when Dean has no chance to respond.

Dean, on the other hand, has expressed his care for Cas MULTIPLE TIMES. He didn't say the words, "I love you" (he doesn't even say that to SAM) but he said "We're family" "You're the closest thing I have to family—you're like a brother to me" and "I need you" and "I'm not leaving without you" and "Being with you today is the most I've laughed in years" and "I'd rather have you, cursed or not" and "It's a gift. You keep those. Let's work as a team. We're better together."

And what does Cas do after every single one of these expressions of Dean's love?

He L E A V E S!!!!

He fucking leaves, and Cas girls want to talk about Dean making a face? And cry that Dean makes Cas feel unloved? Forgive me if that makes me fucking CACKLE at the AUDACITY.

I think one thing people tend to do, is they frame everything as if Cas is oblivious to Dean loving him, but Dean has to know or SHOULD know how Cas feels about him. This is why we get rancid takes like "DeAn nEedS tO pUll hIS hEaD oUt of HiS asS". Oh shut up. Castiel canonically can SENSE DEAN'S LONGING. If Dean's head is up his ass, Castiel's is shoved so fucking far up his sphincter it's coming out of his mouth.

Yet still—Dean recognizes, in season 11, that Cas is struggling—that Cas feels down on himself and unloved (and I DO NOT think Cas BLAMES Dean for that at all—it takes a lot of willful ignorance about everything going on with his biological family to come to that conclusion) and Dean tries to FIX IT. He once again reiterates to Cas how much he cares about him—that he's family. He has NO IDEA that the words intended to make Cas feel better are going to send him down one of the most deranged spirals of unhinged decision-making ever (the Kelly shenanigans are WILD). I actually have a slightly different take on this, from the typical " it sent him off the deep end because he got 'brother-zoned'". I think it sent him off the deep end because it was the final *nail in the coffin in what Cas saw as a reversal of their relationship—where he isn't the guy who protects everyone anymore with his grace and his grand wings... that's Dean now, and Dean is saying that Cas, like Sam, is under his protection... and Castiel absolutely could not STAND that. He didn't need his romantic affections to be returned. What he wanted, more than anything—what he saw (in a rough draft of the script) when Jack showed him paradise, was Dean thanking him, and his powers returned to their former glory. Because Cas has unilaterally decided Dean's feelings, he chooses to love him like a saint loves Jesus, laying down his life, instead of being in a partnership, because he doesn't want to be someone Dean protects—not even in a partnership where they protect each other. He wants to be the sole protector.

All of that to say: Cas didn't learn how to feel unloved from Dean. TEXTUALLY. It is ON THE TIN. Saying that is literally the EXACT OPPOSITE of what Cas SAYS about Dean. He says he cared about the whole world because of DEAN. He cared because Dean's love was so captivatingly beautiful and inspiring and transcendent that it changed who Cas was inside to the core, and he fell fucking head over heels. "You changed me".

#Y'all can call me PK if you want! #and cas is my best friend #john #dont feed the stans after midnight #i dont deserve what he put on me

[ssaalexblake]

13 reacts to Yaz openly showing her loyalty and positive emotion by looking straight up Scared and it’s still a question that 13′s shadiness was purposefully written??? Girl knows Exactly what she is and that she’s basically created an elaborate ~chipper~ persona with selective honesty and carefully monitoring how she acts among her friends, and is intelligent enough to know it’s gonna come crashing down around her, probably Soon. 

It’s already getting harder to hide. It slowly got more difficult for her to do so over the course of the season, especially in the NY special. She’s losing ground, step by step. 

And it’s not that i disagree with the assertions that the two moments of yaz showing her affection and 13′s reactions are Thasmin(tm), i just happen to think they’re Angsty rather than anything else. 

I don’t think it was a mistake that the one closest to seeing past the doctor’s new Happy/laughing/kindness visage is Yaz, I think it’s going to be plot relevant that Yaz spent most of season eleven Watching. Ryan and Graham, to some extent, are very much in their own world in S11; they’re travelling with 13 yeah, but they’re also both trying to work through grief by doing so, they’re trying to reconcile their own relationship as family, too. 

To put it simply, they’re not watching and therefore they don’t see, and I don’t think it’s an accident that it was written this way.  

Yaz, however, as has been justifiably pointed out by a lot of people frustrated that she had little to actively do in s11, has spent that time paying a Lot of attention to Thirteen. At some point, nosing into Graham and Ryan’s grief and development would have been outright rude of her, not just awkward. It’s kind of, Pushed her to be more attuned to 13, what else was she going to do, right? 

Add to this that 13 is, for the most part comfortable giving Yaz jobs to do on their travelling that she would never off the cuff leave to the other two. She armed Yaz when they were having the Pting problem and left her guarding the anti-matter drive, to use an example. While Graham and Ryan were off being midwives, Yaz was defending the ship against a hostile alien and using force to do so, and doing it under 13′s orders. She is more comfortable with Yaz doing these things because, i assume, she is a police officer, she’s trained to do so. 

Which isn’t really notable, it’s logical after all, Graham is a retired bus driver and Ryan is training to be a mechanic and works terrible jobs to pay for it, if you were going to pick one of the three to do the more dangerous and potentially violent tasks, you Would pick Yaz, it’s logical. 

None of this on its own is really notable, but Yaz is now in this weird space where she’s not Really noticed that anything is up, but she has all the pieces of information in her head that could lead to an epiphany. She’s spent a few months watching this kind of pantomime performance of thirteen’s sincere attempts to be a better person, to be just a traveler, and she’s been subconsciously picking up bits of information which are outliers to her own supposition that 13′s “the best person i’ve ever met” (ok, she might decide she still is after this inevitably gets worse before it gets better, but she can’t Know if 13 hides herself from her, it’s the submitting to the ordeal of being known kind of thing). 

Because i think we’re almost at the point where, if Yaz were to just see One thing, one openly questionable action from 13, she will begin to consciously connect the dots. Which is why I think the whole ‘Yaz has stars in her eyes for 13′ is actively Angsty rather than cute, i mean it’s kind of cute because it looks like she’s got a crush on the weirdo blonde alien, but i can’t see this ending anywhere but Angst.

The problem with Yaz starting their friendship looking at 13 like that, is Eventually she’s going to stop. And 13 knows this, hence the looks of worry/fear when yaz Does look at her with something bordering on awe and intense loyalty. She’s terrified of the day Yaz knows enough that the looks will stop, imo.  

Which is honestly why i hate this stupidly long hiatus, i genuinely feel from all the signs that s11 was the groundwork to some pretty serious story arcs, but I also don’t think the super long gap was a good tactical decision because if you don’t look at the season as a starting block and look at it as a single entity, it doesn’t have a lot of depth which i feel is actually there. 

#danni watches doctor who #every time i see that gifset of 13 reacting to yaz i go 'ouch' in a not fun way #and ok i don't ship the ship but that's a lot to do #with the fact that yaz doesn't Really know her #and i am less inclined to ship teens w/ anyone much older than them in general #but i do think this is going to be a V important relationship in s12 #so i just wish they'd give it to us!!!! #i'm supposed to be colouring in doctors 1-4 but i wrote this instead!!!! #in my defence i couldn't find any good colour references lol #i think it's the hannibal novel that talks about all the elements for an epiphany are present??? #i read it in Some book and i Loved the idea of seeing it like that #like 'i know you are clueless right now but.... u have all the info to Not be' #except it was more murdery in the book lol

[tinkdw]

Hey, thank you for your positivity regarding the show. I haven't watched the last few episodes yet, but I've read spoilers and haven't been able to find out why there's so much negativity surrounding the end (I just can't find any solid or convincing arguments from the naysayers?) I've always trusted your judgment on these things, so I came to your blog to find out your opinion, and as always, I find that your reasoning (and the reasoning of the people you reblog) just... makes so much sense. ❤️

Aw thank you! I’m not like 100% positive or positive for the sake of it, I just stick by the logic that has worked out for me in the past and allowed me to accurately speculate like 99% of the stuff we have meta’d, specced based on meta and then seen confirmed over the last few years.

I also got wound up by negativity tbh, it’s been a negative time in the world, there’s always potential for a stupid ending and we don’t KNOW for sure what’s happening, Misha has been cagey and appeared sad at times when discussing the end (which i think is more to do with him personally than the character with his job and relationships with the crew etc coming to an end) so I do get it.

But with Amara confirming in like 2 fricking sentences the realms of meta I wrote about her purpose re Dean’s arc it just reinvigorated me to think about things logically and LOGICALLY it was what, just a few episodes ago that they literally told us on the show that Chuck’s ending was shitty writing and that Cas had to be important. Now important doesn’t mean he doesn’t die horribly and sacrificially sure, but also... idk he already DID that in s12-13. That story is done. Narratively it’s bad writing to do that again. It’s lazy. Now maybe they’re lazy? Idk I just can’t see them doing all this work to confirm the meta readings of Dean, Sam and Cas over the years and give them a happy ending regarding their issues, like Sam’s self forgiveness, catharsis re Lucifer and a love interest and leadership role, how they’re sorting out Dean’s performative side and allowing him now to be who he is not who he thinks he should be, watching Disney movies and nesting at home etc, and giving Cas a redemption arc through Jack because Jack even existing in the first place is solely down to Cas’ choices, well, why do all that to have Cas dead and Dean miserable or also dead at the end?!

Like even if you don’t ship them for whatever reason it’s canon that Dean is suicidal without Cas, that ending just doesn’t work unless he’s also dead. And could they do a reverse swan song? Yeah I guess. But again why, what would be the point. And again, J2M being confused by the ending kinda makes me think even more that they all survive and Cas is human given those are the things THEY think are the wrong choices because they don’t get it lol.

Also yet again this episode confirmed that Cas chose to believe in Jack, that he chose this, so I find it odd to then make him sacrifice himself again and end up dead when he hasn’t even gotten his reward of being happy for even a moment yet. It’s a possibility but not the most likely imo.

So sure Dean and Cas could die and it’s a reverse swan song, but like, imo that’s a 5% chance that they take a bit out of left field for dramas sake v 95% they just continue with the story they’ve told so far and just wrap it up. I may be totally wrong but that’s I’m going into the the final episodes as I always have, with reserved optimism that yeah sure I don’t really expect them to clarify DeanCas as romantic for the reasons I’ve discussed before, but I do expect them to do all the other obvious stuff justice as they have been ticking them off the list slowly but surely and there really aren’t a lot of meta points left tbh, they’ve been pretty diligent. So imo it would be weird to do all that to just throw aside the character they’ve literally said on the show it would be stupid to throw aside 🤷‍♀️

#endgame positive #spn speculation

[spookyrobbins]

do you ever wonder what would have happened if Sara Ramirez hadn't decided to take a break from the show? How would the writers have dealt with Callie being in NY? or maybe she would've never actually gotten on the plane? What's your take on this?

hmmm, i have lots of thoughts tbh

if she wasn't leaving at the end of season 12 and wasn't going to NY in any way:

I think that there are a few ways they might have taken the whole Penny storyline - I do think there would've still been some sort of Callie's in a relationship storyline regardless and I do see the value of Penny as a storytelling device with Meredith, so I could totally see them still including her and not fundamentally changing a lot there

but I think if they were planning for a s13 Callie storyline, I think it would've intersected with Arizona's, so there might have been a similar storyline for Arizona, to you know show that they were both moving on (as much as I find her irritating, Eliza was super important to Arizona getting her confidence back). I (of course) am all for Calzona endgame, so I think that there would probably be some more moments between them to establish that they weren't finished

I do think the other way they could go with Penny in this hypothetical scenario would be to put her and Arizona against each other in some way - to draw a contrast between the two. Not necessarily from a career standpoint bc Penny is at such a different level from Arizona (and Callie tbh). Obviously, there could be like romantic competition or whatever. But for some reason, I think that a more interesting angle would be portraying Penny as someone a bit like Callie (as in impulsive and falls quickly and moves quickly) as more of a George than an Arizona. And how that would affect the dynamic of Sofia-Callie-Arizona. Clearly, they wanted to do something, so we got the custody battle. But there was a lot of room to do something when Callie wanted to introduce Penny to Sofia.

I think they could've really set Arizona and Callie up to have conflict (w/o the custody battle) and to have that carry into the next season and then obviously you can just write Penny off to NY and create a contrast b/w Callie in s7 and s12 - Callie lets Penny go in a more mature way and she has roots in Seattle now

if they were really committed to the whole NY debacle:

so the custody battle I think would have to be very different if Callie was coming back bc quite frankly that was character assassination. i do think that they'd probably have to do some sort of big custody thing bc neither would want to be without Sofia. I just think it might be more balanced/more reasonable. They really wanted to sell this idea of how impulsive Callie is and she is impulsive, but she's not stupid either. There was definitely space to bring Carlos in around there and it seemed like a waste not to tbh.

The way I see it, Arizona was always going to let Callie go, the real question was if Callie would go. Arizona's always let Callie go (metaphorically and physically) if she thinks it's in Callie's best interest. So there'd probably be something similar where Arizona tells Callie to go and be happy (which is a pretty obvious callback to the Africa breakup)

Then I think it would be a question of if Callie actually goes or not. Either there'd be a scene at the end of the season, where Callie tells Arizona she can't go

or they'd have Callie go at the end of s12 and create some tension around her coming back with Arizona.

In a perfect world, and since Grey's is very fond of creating callbacks and running themes esp. with couples, I think that they could very much mirror the scene when Arizona came back from Africa, just minus them trying to get back together

I think they'd draw out the whole will they won't they for at least a season. they made such a fuss over their breakups that it seems like there'd be a lot of obstacles

I also think that it'd be kinda interesting to have Callie be jealous for a change. Arizona was jealous at different points, and often for valid reasons, but she was always belittled for her insecurity. It'd be v interesting to see how Callie would react to Eliza for instance and how Arizona would operate in that space

okay think I got all of my thoughts on this out, but boy oh boy did the writers screw them over

#i particularly hate penny #not bc she's a bad person #but bc she's dull and callie acts dumb #she's in such a different place in life from callie and even the chemistry is weird #and i also will fully defend eliza and carina's relationships with Arizona as very important #bc honestly callie did a total number on Arizona #i think the moral of the story is callie's character got butchered in s12 but there is a lot of ways she could've grown alongside arizona #anon #no post on sundays