#gosh this fandom has so many opportunities and openings for fanfictions and yet

[twpsyn-who]

Is there a Fix-It out there where they explain to Jason what's going on and he not only believes them, but he does help with the plan hence why this time is works and no one has to die smily face????? Cuz I lowkey wanna read that.

#I just think life would have been easier if someone talked with Jason first #preferably before Patrick (or whatever his name) died. so when they are explaining that dude can be like 'i hear that clock' and they make #him listen to music and he's well :) or they find out too late and he dies anyway #OR even better Jason doesn't believe it until he sees Patrick die and blames himself for not listening to the others #anyway he could either be with Max and Lucas OR the bait team so he can help Eddie distract the bats :) #and they both end up a little bit fucked up but the damage is not that big (more of a Steve damage not I'm gonna die from blood lost #damage) so they all get out and to a hospital and Jason confirms that the person who killed Chrissy attacked him and Munson no don't ask #about the bites man just trust me bro that's what happen. and they do trust him cuz yk rich boy power or whatever (+the party agreeing) #and they lived happily ever after #(((but also like Jason and Eddie becoming besties after that over blaming themselves for Chrissy's death))) #gosh this fandom has so many opportunities and openings for fanfictions and yet #stranger things #stranger things jason #jason carver #I am sorry but if my girlfriend died in someone's trailer I would go haunt the owner of said trailer too #okok maybe I would let the owner explain first but if nothing comes out of that I would kill that motherfucker without hesitation #just saying #not excusing Jason. just yk. mood

[bladekindeyewear]

Andrew has a post over here (or rather, “a message Hussie sent to the Perfectly Generic Podcast”) detailing his thoughts on the Epilogues, how he thought people would feel about them, and why he made them the way he did.  Interesting read-- here are my thoughts as I was reading:

Wakraya -Today at 4:34 PM

Pst pst :3 We just got a statement from Hussie on the Epilogues if you ever feel ready to check that out

BlastYoBoots -Today at 5:00 PM

ooh

yeah if there's a link?

Wakraya -Today at 5:01 PM

https://www.reddit.com/r/homestuck/comments/cuywff/the_homestuck_epilogues_bridges_and_offramps_new/

BlastYoBoots -Today at 5:02 PM

yeah I was like "there's a HARDCOVER version?!??" trying to google what you described

Wakraya -Today at 5:02 PM

Oh yeah it just got announced recently, and this is what Hussie said about it, sent to the PGP people just a bit ago

BlastYoBoots -Today at 5:03 PM

collapsing the bubble, yeah... he understood all this pretty well

readin further

"it's heavily implied to be a piece of bridge-media"  --definitely, so why... there couldn't possibly be a follow-up, could there? ...

"Our continued attention is the very property which incites new problems," -- yeah, I definitely understood that as a theme of the Epilogues... but it also felt like a slap in the face to everyone invested in those characters for that exact reason, and torturing us like that should give way to SOME kind of more settling payoff to offset it, right? right andrew?.....

"But "implied" is all it was. There was no immediate announcement for followup content, and I'm not announcing anything here yet either. More time was always going to be necessary to figure out what to do next, including what form it takes, the timing, and all those questions." --okay yeah that's... SANE.  That's MORE sane than the follow-up to Homestuck it seemed to be implying, the creation half to the destruction half.  Because as much as it seemed to be implying that with those ending sections, I really couldn't imagine a continuation to such a ridiculously saturated story as FEASIBLE; you couldn't possibly loop in anyone who wasn't into the first body of work in the first place.  But... then why leave so many of the characters in such dire straits, unsatisfied, their happiness jeopardized even after the lesson was imparted about how our looking in damaged things?

"For now I think it was alright to just let things simmer for a while, and give people an extended period of time to meditate on the meaning of the epilogues and why they involved the choices they did. But regardless of anyone's conclusions about it, I can at least confirm that it WAS designed to feel like a bridge piece since its conception."  ...I'm not, uh.  ENTIRELY.  sure. that Andrew understands.  how paralyzingly invested we are in some of these characters.  :neutral_face:

"Is it this way because an epilogue SHOULD be this way? No. It is this way because I thought that was the most suitable role for an epilogue to play in the context of the weird piece of media Homestuck has always been."  Fair... but that was the impression the end of Homestuck gave us in the first place, right?  Art and message over our feelings.  That's been the strength AND curse of Andrew's work.  His relentless artistic integrity.  He's going to give the message he wants to give even if it kills us.  :c

this mulling over how he played with "Intermission" is fun, spelling it all out and how eagerly he wanted to play with and subvert those tropes...

Wakraya -Today at 5:14 PM

Oh, keep going

You're going to like the end I feel

BlastYoBoots -Today at 5:15 PM

yeah all this is gonna go up on my blog if you let me

Wakraya -Today at 5:15 PM

Absolutely! :p

BlastYoBoots -Today at 5:16 PM

"So now the label "epilogue" has been toyed with in a similar way, and also in a manner which exposes an apparent flaw with the label. Or actually, just by using the label "epilogue" at all, it seems the story is admitting to an apparent flaw." --So how were those who DID interpret the ending of Homestuck as not addressing stuff that needed to be addressed supposed to interpret it, though?  Those who needed a more explicit explanation of why Andrew was seeming to "toss aside" so much of what they cared about as stuff that "didn't matter"?

He knew those people existed... hence the outcry!

you can't deliver a message to those people with a mocking thrust, you've gotta be, hm... more delicate about it? IF, that is, you feel an obligation to those people in the first place

and I was never sure whether Andrew DOES....?

hmmmmmn

"It's already an unhinged implementation of the label before you even read it, which means it's probably time to get nervous about whether it satisfies your expectations about what the content existing under such a label should provide."  Yes, you knew people were gonna get super nervous even before they cracked open the cover... and then you DELIVERED, rather intentionally, on some of their worst fears.....?

"My feeling is, there's almost no choice but to turn the conventional ideas associated with epilogues completely inside-out, because of the inherent contradictions involved with crossing the post-canon threshold and revealing that which was not meant to be known."  Yes, and I understood Andrew was trying for that.  But... um....... what about satisfaction?  You gonna give us ANY comfort after that's been dealt with, that lesson imparted?  Why throw all our feelings by the wayside after you've communicated that overall lesson?

"By deploying it as mock-fanfiction, and including other authors, I'm making an overt gesture that is beginning to diminish my relevance as the sole authority on the direction this story takes, what should be regarded as canon, and even introducing some ambiguity into your understanding of what canon means as the torch is being passed into a realm governed by fan desires." --Yes, I've read that really good tumblr post I won't bother linking  (EDIT: because I can’t find it, or where I commented on it, it was probably in discord; could someone link that to me? the one that talked about how this epilogue posed as Fanfiction and took on those trappings but could never BE that, and how it was their opinion ((though not mine FYI)) that Andrew didnt understand that?) that expresses how the author's intervention into this "territory" ruins the effect that this sort of work is supposed to have, and how it can't be judged as similar, but given the stuff that Andrew was TRYING to get across -- the sort of, "freeing fanwork from the vestiges of canon" stuff and the other lessons he's alluding to in this very Reddit post -- he didn't have much choice in terms of presentation framework.  Could it have been presented more elegantly, less fanon-hijacky?  Sure, he ain't perfect... Could it have more explicitly endorsed other interpretations of so-called canon as more valid than this, or AS valid?  Absolutely, but he's never been one to spell things out for us so plainly... Ah, but could it have ended in a way to give those of us so nervous about the work more SATISFACTION, less grief?  THAT is an entirely DIFFERENT matter that I hope he answers as this post goes forward.... readin readin'.......

"If the epilogues really prove to be the bridge media they were designed to feel like, then I expect this trend to continue. The fanfiction format is effectively a call to action, for another generation of creators to imagine different outcomes, to submit their own work within the universe, to extend what happens beyond the epilogues, or to pave over them with their own ideas."  True, but... gosh darn, Andrew, you coulda been more explicit with that.  Especially with the potential pave-over-ability of it all.  Expressing that a lot more explicitly would have gone to help smooth over a bunch of that one tumblr post I mentioned's concerns. :T

"It's also an opportunity for people to discuss any of the difficult content critically, and for fandom in general to continue developing the tools for processing the negative emotions art can generate."  Yeah, I... have to admit, I'm not as good at dealing with negative content in media as I should be.  And that's definitely part of what is making the fanbase feel stabbed in the heart, yeah, but..... again, it feels kind of as if Andrew does NOT understand how irrationally attached so much of the fanbase is to these characters and how irrationally overinvested in their happiness, and all of this feels kind of callous.  :frowning:

Wakraya -Today at 5:27 PM

He's very aware of how powerfully a lot of people feel about it, with all he's gone through with the Fandom. He really is just like this isn't he?

BlastYoBoots -Today at 5:27 PM

"fandom is something which can develop better skills as well. Skills like critical discussion, dealing constructively with negative feelings resulting from the media they consume, interacting with each other in more meaningful ways, and trying to understand different points of view outside of the factions within fandom that can become very hardened over time."  Hmn!  That's...... true, yeah, but wow did you take a HAMMER to it instead of a scalpel

yeah

Andrew's always just

well it's like I said isn't it?

He's got that artistic vision, and even though he knows he's in an interaction with the fandom and shapes things to it by the design of the story, he is N O T compromising that artistic vision

even if it feels like a punch to the gut to us

immersion therapy :frowning:

not sure I can say whether that's right or wrong!  only that it hurt XD

Wakraya -Today at 5:29 PM

X3

It hurts, but he does understand.

Perhaps precisely because he understands, he pushes us to our limits

He doesn't matter if he loses part of his audience in the process- He wants to showcase a message.

Painful as it may be, that's kind of admirable in a stubborn way.

And when he delivers happiness, he does it in spades

BlastYoBoots -Today at 5:30 PM

yeah, he never cared about losing support because he said what he felt was necessary

Wakraya -Today at 5:30 PM

And if it is something actually like

Problematic

He does backpedal and fix things up

BlastYoBoots -Today at 5:31 PM

"But I don't see why it can't be an objective to try to improve fandom, just as creators can improve their work."  --and he was DEFINITELY, DEFINITELY trying to improve the way members of the fandom treated a WHOLE BUNCH of different affectations of the Homestuck fanfiction in the community.  that was something kind of admirable and insane throughout the epilogues... on the deeper scale, how he used the Roxy arc in Candy to at the end put the reader to task with "HEY!!! How do you know this wasn't how Roxy would canonically act in this situation? You don't know the inside of her head! ALL SORTS of stuff is valid!  You can't use those reasons to point at certain fanfiction and call it BAD."  And I do love that.  With a more insane surface example, the dog dick stuff. Jesus.  XD

"So now I'm looking to all of you on the matter of where to go next." --oh SHIT.  :X

Well, there's a problem.  XD

fuck, you can't just ASK us what we want XDDD

"Wherever the most conscientious and invested members of fandom want to drive this universe, as well as the standards by which we engage with media in general, that will be the direction I follow."  mother FUCK

well, now the pressure's on.  god help us all XD

time to post this

#Homestuck #Epilogue #Homestuck Epilogue #upd8 #Andrew Hussie #spoiler #spoilers #Homestuck Spoilers #Epilogue Spoilers