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saintarmand · 10 months

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This probably shows my ignorance of ongoing discourse (does this mean I am following the right people?), but am I correct in understanding that there has been some issue with people in the fandom insisting that Louis is the Man (with all the racialisied connotations of that) in his and Lestat's relationship?

The majority of Lestat is Mother comments I've seen I took as jokes, similar to how he is often semi-affectionately called a cunt, cunty, etc., only with more queer irony and more of a Mommie Dearest vibe. I have seen a few more serious comments regarding Lestat and Claudia's relationship, which I did think involved a bit of projecting.

I believe it is essential to understand Lestat as the increasingly tyrannical and openly abusive Patriarch he is, but, to me at least, that doesn't mean discussing Lestat in regards to femininity and motherhood is completely off the table. Vampires reproduce asexually so in some ways Lestat is both father and mother, and also neither. There are parallels to be made between Florence and Lestat; only with the latter Louis gets to play Grace's role of favoured child. I think a case can be made that Louis' early narration does, at points, try to frame Lestat in a more powerless, more feminine role than likely was true. By his own awful admittance, Lestat takes after his father, but that is not necessarily gender exclusive; look who Claudia resembles the most.

Maybe I'm also inclined to be open towards this train of thought because I think the Lestat Only as Father and Louis Only as Mother approach sometimes steamrollers over the very real ways that Louis acts as a patriarchal figure (albeit not as bad as Lestat, but) to Claudia.

sorry it took me so long to respond anon!

this is discourse that seems to keep resurfacing at least every few weeks so people are getting increasingly aggravated by it, hence the tone in a lot of posts about it. most of these discussions are about lestat but seeing louis as "the man" was very much a thing especially early on. you don't see it as much anymore, perhaps just views shifting as the show went on, perhaps because people pointed out the racial stereotyping.

but the lestat is a mother/woman thing has stuck and it's not just jokes, some people get outright offended when lestat is referred to as masculine or patriarchal at all. it's also been pointed out that most of the cunt/mother jokes seem to focus on scenes where's at his most abusive and patriarchal, such as the scene right before the dv in 1x05, the 1x06 train scene, and the 1x06 chess tantrum. so i think there's a (subconscious) attempt to 'soften' the abuse by likening him to a woman.

here's some examples of the kind of stuff being said:

lestat yelling being called hysterical woman moments

him screaming and hitting the table after the chess match being called classic mom behavior

lestat called a trophy wife (before ep4 aired) cause he doesnt work

"lestat is a mother/woman bc he reminds me of my own abusive mother / [insert fictional white woman]"

louis looking away when claudia asks "are you going to let him do this to me" being called classic dad behavior bc (paraphrasing) "dads will often try to be the nice parent so the mom has to discipline and be the bad guy"

"lestat gave claudia mommy issues" (not sure what this means cause my understanding of what that usually means doesnt apply as far as i can see)

"lestat is not a dilf he's a milf"

i havent read this myself but apparently early on most show fics tended to have louis in a very dominant sexual role, though this changed over time and now the opposite is more popular

fanart also depicting louis in a stereotyped hypermasculine black man way

apparently in the book fandom before the show aired, lestat was generally understood to be "the patriarch" so this is all a new development with the show, i.e. with black louis... despite the fact that the show actually went out of their way to make it MORE obvious and consistent

i've also seen, instead of saying lestat is a mother, people just saying he isn't a father bc they dont see him as claudia's parent at all???? but this i think was mostly very casual viewers

so like. while yeah i also don't think discussing the feminine in lestat or the masculine in louis should be completely off the table, the situation in the fandom is that sooooo many people are just not at all acknowledging the fact that the show is very intentionally framing lestat as masculine and patriarchal, and especially not that he's specifically a white patriarch exerting control over his black family.

but of course louis and lestat are in reality both men which means they both are patriarchal figures to claudia, and they're both as queer men in some ways exiled from traditional masculinity as well.

#s #anon #asks

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