#i could probably write a whole post about cass at jason's grave too but that's. a whole other kettle of fish

[bodyfrmabalcony]

actually sorry to be back at this again but i did have slightly more to say about tim and jason (see last post i reblogged)

that post does a lot of analysis that i enjoyed re: their read on what tim is dream hallucinating jason saying re: his own death and i had a couple thoughts i wanted 2 add to that. tldr they r saying that this is wayy more about tim than it is about jason and i super agree. i said something about jason's line saying he killed himself in my tim post from last week, but it was kinda reductive, where i said basically yeah that sure sounds like like a way bruce might describe it!! but i don't really think that's the whole story - my more genuine nuanced take on that is a little more like: it sounds an awful lot like what a scared kid might imagine that bruce saying about what happened to a robin who fucks up, i.e., not something bruce said about jason but something tim is afraid bruce would say (or think) about tim if tim went the same way as jason

being a martyr and a cautionary tale and a failure - his own or bruce's - are all stacked up on top of each other w/ jason, and tim just kind of. has all that. to deal with. the linked post gets way into how tim is reacting to his mom's death, which is so so interesting to me, bc tim is clearly soo scared of his grief disqualifying him from everything else he wants and feels like he needs to do. he's scared he won't be able to be robin bc bruce sees him compromised by his grief, so he's got to grieve Just Right, at the same time that he's basically trying to take on bruce's grief for jason. the kid is in the poster house for Grief Alters Your Life In Ways You Can't Control and he's still trying to grieve correctly. oof.

and back to tim's relationship to jason post-jason's death, it's so interesting in every direction, but specifically a big thing to me is that on some level jason is not real. like he is, obviously, but tim didn't meet him and he's never going to. he's not dick, a man tim can remember as a child and whose apartment he can break into as a slightly older child. he's not bruce, a guy whose basement tim can end up standing in if he tries hard enough. he doesn't! exist! you don't get to meet dead men! jason doesn't need to be pinned down as tim's hero or tim's fear or tim's resentment, bc the most important thing is that he's just a story. he's just an idea.

and then, of course, what do u do when the idea puts a knife to your throat. or puts on bright yellow tights to beat u up in front of your friends. things get really silly!! quoting my own tags on the first linked post just to have them here as well:

#i think constantly constantly about the car crash disaster of #all the things ppl did in their grief after jason died and then #jason comes back. and sees things he was never meant to see #and it's specifically sooo interesting for the ppl who got caught up in the grief but never even met jason #tim looking at the memorial case #cass sitting at jason's grave on his birthday with bruce #like wtf is jason supposed to do w all that grief from ppl he doesnt know for a person he only sort of was #and on the flip side! wtf r the ppl who grieved a story supposed to do when the story walks up to them! #and in some cases. walks up to them holding a knife. #anyway just thinkin

#just saying things about tim and jason once again #i could probably write a whole post about cass at jason's grave too but that's. a whole other kettle of fish #talking tag #sorry for stream of consciousness typing up my thoughts #anyway #tim drake #jason todd #oh god also x3 there's the whole issue where batman fear gas hallucinates jason and almost kills tim #idk how relevant that is but im thinking about like #the times tim puts himself in jason's shoes on purpose #the times he tries his ass off to be in some other shoes entirely #and the times someone else hallucinates him into jason's shoes and almost beats him to death