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theravennest · 3 years

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Hot Loki Take: Sylvie was Right

*Spoilers for all of Loki the series up to and including ep 6.

Sylvie was right to kill He Who Remains and free the timeline.

I’m deadass.

He Who Remains forced reality into an endless cycle between a time of Order (he rules as dictator) & a time of simulated and controlled "Chaos" (his Conqueror variants wage war). I say this “chaos” is simulated because when you think about it, it’s chaos that He Who Remains arranges himself by manipulating Lokis.

He Who Remains is so fucking sus but for some reason people are just tripping over their own feet to believe everything he says and vilify Sylvie for killing him.

He literally tells them (and us) that his methods are deceptive and we know for a fact that he’s willing to murder trillions upon trillions of people, planets, and realities to get the outcome he wants. Yet some are still believing everything he says cuz he said maybe 4 things that were truthful, I guess, and cuz he’s cute. Some of us are so blinded by the fear/anticipation of Kang the Conqueror’s arrival, we are letting him bamboozle us.

He Who Remains perfectly and personally tailored the Ordered period of the timeline to produce this exact Sylvie and this exact Loki, had them meet/influence each other, and then had them travel to the end of time...to him.

Now Lokis by nature are agents of chaos and could suddenly swerve left, so to speak, for no reason. So let’s assume I believe that He Who Remains didn’t 100% know what they would choose once they crossed the Threshold (if the Threshold he described is even real, tbh). He also so carefully molded both of their entire lives for that moment in the Citadel. He may not have known 100% but he knew at least 90% of how they would react to everything he said and did when they were both pushed to this place/mindset.

Notice how he teed them up for the fight that ended in his death:

Manufacturing a scenario where they would meet via the TVA’s variant pursuit.

Manufacturing a scenario where they would travel to the Void and meet Alioth.

Kid Loki being in just the right place to give his sword to Loki.

Miss Minutes appearing to menacingly offer an obvious devil’s bargain.

Him slyly telling Sylvie that she can’t trust Loki, putting it into her head just before he gives them his ultimatum.

All of these thing practically gift wrapped that ending to the Loki on Sylvie fight.

Let’s elaborate.

What was even the point of Miss Minutes offering to re-insert them into the same Sacred Timeline with both getting their hearts’ desires there?

Not more than ten minutes later He Who Remains told Loki and Sylvie to their faces that he manipulated all this for the sole purpose of making them choose between taking over as rulers of the TVA or killing him and ushering in a Multiversal War. Neither of those choices would result in re-inserting Loki and Sylvie back into the timeline.

So what is the truth? Why waste precious moments with a creepy Miss Minutes menacing them in that vestibule scene?

Notice how Miss Minutes’ words pushed Loki further onto his path of no longer wanting power or a throne but desiring to change his attitude about himself and the universe. Notice how her words conversely pushed Sylvie into balking at the idea of accepting another “fictional” life after a lifetime of being manipulated and made her double down on her mission to free the timeline and get revenge.

Sylvie has the ability to see memories but interesting how he kept her distracted by condescending to her and provoking her, just stoking the fire to make her react negatively. (Interesting how he was far more focused on Sylvie’s reactions than Loki’s, most likely because he needed her to kill him for his plans to work.)

Now I don’t want to completely shift responsibility for her choices away from Sylvie. In truth, if she had held in her vengeance for let’s say an hour and trusted Loki a bit more, they could’ve sat down to talk about things and maybe found a third solution other than starting a Multiversal War or ruling the TVA that still could’ve even allowed her to get revenge. (More on the ultimatum later.)

But I can’t blame her for losing her cool, either. He Who Remains made damn sure she would burn as hot as possible because he tailor made her life to give her the personality he wanted. And any other version of her out there who might have made a different choice would’ve already been pruned.

He Who Remains tells Loki and Sylvie straight up that he set them on their particular life paths because he needed them to be “changed by the journey” to ensure everyone in that room was in exactly the right mindset to do what was needed to “finish the quest” and presumably “slay the dragon,” aka Him. (Notice the parallels to the speaker narration just before episode 2′s fight at the Ren Fair.)

We don’t know! Sylvie never enchanted him to read his memories because she was so filled with rage and Loki was too busy trying to stop her, he didn’t think to do it either. And we’ve already established that He Who Remains trained them that way. Nothing that happened in that office was without He Who Remains’ influence and meddling.

Another nail in the coffin that convinces me that He Who Remains is a no good dirty liar is Renslayer.

If He Who Remains’ end goal was to either have the Lokis choose to rule the TVA or destroy it and thus end up with no memory of her previous TVA judge role/life, why did he send Miss Minutes to Ravonna with files that caused her to pack her bags and search for what she calls “free will,” AKA the one in charge?

I’d bet dollars to donuts that when the next season rolls around the only people who will know what’s going on and still have their memories will be Loki, Miss Minutes, Sylvie, and Ravonna. (Maybe Kang the Conqueror will know as well but I could see it going the other way too. I’m 50-50.)

He Who Remains was planning something by pushing Ravonna the way he did. Does he want her out of the TVA so she doesn’t lose her memories when everything resets? Does he want her to go find the Conqueror version of himself? I mean, at this point, practically everyone knows who she is to Kang in the comics, so let’s not pretend that’s not an option.

Another thing to think about...it’s super suspicious that he was so eager to make them believe he’s one of the “good versions” of Kang and all these others are much worse while giving absolutely no evidence of that outside of an interactive blob powerpoint, a quirky attitude, and a couple of sad, weary faces????

Who’s to say He Who Remains isn’t playing the long game and always manipulates his variants to eventually give him the chance to seize control of the multiverse?

Who’s to say he’s not one of the Kangs that wanted to conquer too? Funny how the “pure of heart” Kang is the one who still wrested control of all reality, killed off every other timeline with a weapon of mass destruction, installed a fascist time bureaucracy, and set himself up as the dictator. Sounds an awful lot like some conqueror shit to me, just saying.

Even wilder theory: what if this really is the same Kang the Conqueror but at the end of his life? We only have hhis word that he’s a variant. He Who Remains tells Loki that this fight is for the “young and hungry.” Maybe the “young and hungry” he’s referring to is not Loki and Sylvie at all but his literal younger self. Perhaps he set up this entire cycle of chaos and order so that he can perpetually live, conqueror, rule, die, and start all over again? Reincarnation, as he says...

But let’s set that wild theory aside for a moment. Let’s circle back to the Multiversal War debate and say it really is is caused by an infinite amount of his variants.

I think it’s hella sus that He Who Remains was so insistent that Loki and Sylvie only had two choices to resolve this riddle: Multiversal War or running the TVA almost exactly the way he did while maintaining only a single timeline. Those are definitely not the only two options they had. In fact, I could probably name 1-3 other options off the top of my head right now:

Keep He Who Remains alive while learning how he manipulated time and using those skills to slowly unleash the multiverse while killing every version of Kang to prevent him from existing as either conqueror or dictator.

Kill He Who Remains, take over the TVA, and slowly change it to something not horrific or even build a brand new system for governing time.

Kill or keep He Who Remains, still take over the TVA, slow rollout the Multiverse and kill or prevent every Kang along the way.

(I’m not saying these aren’t also morally questionable options, I’m just saying they are different from the two choices He Who Remains presented.)

But let’s say these options I suggested are not feasible. I just randomly came up with them ten minutes ago so it would be fair if they were picked apart logically.

So let’s contemplate this, instead:

Why should we assume/believe that a Multiversal War is actually a bad thing again??? Why are we assuming that He Who Remains’ Sacred Timeline really saved reality from total collapse?

Assuming he told the truth about his motives, maybe he was just...wrong about the end of reality. Maybe he saw what he thought was the conclusion to the Multiversal War coming and erroneously believed it to be the end of everything but actually it was the multiverse sorting itself out and everything would’ve been fine after.

We (and He Who Remains too) will never know because not only did he not show any evidence to back up his claim that reality was on the brink of collapse, but he himself never allowed things to play out naturally. Whenever the end of the war comes to the brink of something, he always panics, weaponizes Alioth, and traps the universe in his cage of Order with the TVA.

Even more controversial take...maybe the collapse of timelines and the end of everything should be allowed to happen. Maybe the natural cycle of reality is to build and build, splinter and splinter timelines, until it collapses and starts all over again from the void.

Nothing is created and nothing is destroyed, all things exist in a cycle so why should the multiverse be any different?

After all in all, in all three possibilities an infinite number of timelines is destined to suffer and die. Whether it be during the Kang-controlled Order period, Kang-controlled fake Chaos period, or the unrestrained natural Chaos that collapses in on itself...an untold amount of people are dying anyway. There’s only one of those scenarios that has actual unrestrained free will where those people get to exist how they want, make choices they want (even bad ones) for as long as they can.

(Personally, I’ll take that over what the Kangs have wrestled the multiverse into.)

I’ll just take this moment to re-iterate: trust nothing He Who Remains says. He’s a known liar and manipulator, and unlike Loki he has done absolutely nothing to actionably show he’s not still lying or to show that he’s trying to change outside of some sad looks. It’s all pantomime, bruh. Like, the pageantry of it all astounds me.

Is he maybe telling some truths? Sure. But that doesn’t mean he’s not using the truth to manipulate everything. It’s an illusion, I’m telling y’all! He was up to no fucking good.

Sylvie was far more right to kill him than to not. Loki, Sylvie, & team (prolly also the latest Avengers lineup too) now just need to find a way to break this Kang cycle.

#loki #loki laufeyson #sylvie laufeydottir #kang the conqueror #he who remains #loki spoilers #mcu #mcu spoilers

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