#it's hard to redeem a villain when he's antagonistic in. basically every other route (and in heart hunter lol)

[floralovebot]

Replying here since I am too lazy to try and put stuff under a cut. I used to be able to do that without thinking and now? Yeah my brain is like "It's Thursday? When did it become Thursday?" LMAO

I agree with all of your points on Fate Winx Saga. And no, I don't want Dane with Riven. Just on principle at this point.

It would be nice to understand why the show went in this particular direction with Riven though. Like you said, he could just have been a rebel with a cause. Hates authority and the system or is just uncomfortable with people. But no. He's just unlikable with no intention of remorse or repentance.

I might reevaluate his character if he properly apologized to Terra and Dane and it was sincere. After all people can and do change. And usually this kind of assholish behavior is reserved for guest stars and recurring characters who are barely seen and meant to be antagonists to our main group. It's mindboggling to me why the writers would have Riven be this unlikable and then expect for people to root for him. Then again, I saw he is a fan favorite character but the list also put him at number 10 of characters ranked by their likability.

I can get behind a bad boy/girl character if they are still charming and not too vile. But he and Beatrix are horrid. At least she has the excuse of being a villain. What's Riven's? Why is he BFF's with Sky but rarely hanging with him? Why is Dane now a jackass too?

And I agree that Riven will do all that shit and still be considered good and a hero at the end . And Dane? When the show decides they have enough of their other POC character (because Aisha still counts)? They'll kill him off for shock value without giving him a chance to redeem himself and it will be the "perfect" catalyst to show Riven wracked w/ guilt for his actions, furthering his man-pain. That's when the show will come out with him feeling remorse for his actions and try to explain it away with bad home life or maybe actual repressed sexuality--who knows? But it's too late to apologize to Dane or whatever, since he's now dead. So Riven will continue to fight the good fight in his memory.

I bet you that will happen. Ugh. The writers are idiots.

i completely agree! (and under the cut again alhgaldg)

tbh i think quite a few of us have an inkling about where dane's story is gonna go (aka dead). literally everything you said is exactly what i've been thinking since fate came out (which like,, yikes. says a lot about a show when so many people can tell you want to kill off your only characters of color). and plenty of others in the fandom have mentioned their thoughts on dane and what will end up happening to him. his death will probably have something to do with riven and beatrix and will only be used so riven can get his "redemption".

and honestly fate riven is such a huge disappointment. especially since they made riven and sky best friends (which like,, where did that even come from?). before fate came out, i was full on expecting moments where riven would fight with sky about him being a rich, privileged prince who's had his whole life served up on a silver platter (basically what happened in the cartoon), but instead we get them apparently being best buds but also lowkey hating each others guts and barely interacting? and sky isn't even a prince so riven doesn't get that as an excuse to fight him? he's just being an ass? like,, on one hand i was really upset that brandon wasn't there but on the other hand i was excited to see how they would show riven and sky being best friends and like,, it absolutely sucked lmao

and yes! i don't understand the thought process behind making riven just an asshole instead of sticking to what he was in the original and then building on that since they had the chance. i think it just really shows how much they don't understand these characters at all. people like riven because he's relatable in that he calls out privilege, hates authority, and has a hard time connecting with people. he's not just an asshole for fun. og riven actually tries to be friends with the specialists, he's just very bad at it at first. and he definitely has his moments where he is an ass, but we all agreed years ago that it's a defense mechanism so he can look tougher and not show weakness (not that that makes it okay, just a reasoning). but fate has shown that they don't understand riven or why the fandom likes him. they clearly assumed that young girls were just into the "hot bad boy who hates women" trope and didn't actually look at his character for who he is. if you have the time, i'd recommend looking at this great analysis of riven by @stellasolaris (if you see this sorry for tagging you i just think the meta is good adhglajd)! the writers on fate clearly didn't look into his character or what made fans like him and just made one off assumptions about his entire deal. and now fate!riven is this mega douche and literally everything people hate about anyone.

and i completely see where they're wanting to take riven, with him being one of the og specialists and a fan favorite. they're definitely trying to go "bad boy turns good boy" route and give him a redemption arc but like. not every character is zuko!! not every bad boy gets a redemption or deserves one in the first place!!! og riven got a (relatively) good redemption because he actually deserved one, fate!riven does not.

i have no doubt that beatrix is gonna do something that gets dane either killed or extremely injured which causes riven to have massive guilt and a random change of heart. then he gets his five minutes of fame with a bad redemption arc. no idea what's going on in rivusa land and i have no idea why it's still popular with fate fans but i imagine that if they do keep rivusa, the redemption will probably spark it. maybe sam dies too. probably. 😐.

#okay god this is super long too im sorry aldhgljad #i just have so many thoughts and all of them are negative #god.. i hate fate so much.... #winx club #netwinx #GOD i hope this doesnt show in the tags PLEASE dont show in the tags #im just not trying to get into arguments with racists today #answered #deadlyladynightshade #but honestly if you have the time and want to keep talking about this #id love to hear more of your thoughts! #long post

[kendrixtermina]

SUBJECTIVE OPINION TIME re: Rhea

Me: * Finishes Empire Route * Maybe it’s just because both dogmatic zealots and quasi-parental figures than only love you “conditionally” tend to set me off personally, but man, Rhea is scary

People: “Well she goes off the deep end there, in the other routes she’s much nicer”

Me: Alright then lets see what nice Rhea is like * waits for it *

[...]

Me: ...where is it?

Rhea: *Is barely IN the other routes* *Never once talks to any of the people who are so loyal to her* *it looks more and more like Edelgard did everyone a solid by removing her from the equation and they dont even know it* 

Rhea’s support chain: is nothing but major creepo vibes (and some Jeralt backstory I guess) - you do get “personal space plz” dialogue options so this isn’t entirely unintentional

Rhea’s S support: “I fabricated a false history, deceived everyone and was literally giddy about the prospect of you becoming a meat puppet until you offered me your tits/dick”

the vibe is very much “This character was basically evil until just now, but sinse she’s somewhat (sym?)pathetic we’re letting you redeem her if you’re really comitted to it” - and why not? Video games are all about freedom. And it makes total sense that she could be swayed by someone acting as a strong protector to her since she has a very childish, self-centered mentality and basically wants her mommy. 

Just saying, none of the lords require you to screw them for them to listen to reason.  You could run off with their best friends if you wanted. 

Alliance Route: Edelgard was right about the censorship and shady meddling... actually, it’s even worse, because she’s to blame for the rampant xenophobia and closed-mindedness too!

I already suspected that Nemesis wasn’t going to turn out to actually have been good/ that there must be a bit more to it, but I’d had a lot more sympathy if she hadn’t basically enslaved 1000 years worths of humans for something their distant ancestors did. Nemesis and the elites were dead. In fact she killed them, and rightly so! But even if she could kill them again and again it wouldn’t bring back Sothis. And what did the commoners ever do to deserve this?

All while the actual Culprits go unchecked, cheerfully inflicting similar slaughter on, say, Edelgard’s and Dimitri’s families. 

They had sad backstories too. Almost the same one (”Agarthans killed my whole clan”). What did Edelgard do with it? Decide that she will uproot both the meddling shadow factions, end inequality and give power to the people even if she has to give up everything she cares about, so the same never happens to anyone else. Sure, she had a much harder time trusting or connecting with people and dealt poorly with being cornered but she recognizes that her classmates aren’t to blame for what their fathers did. What did Dimitri do with it? Well he struggles alot, but he definitely developed empathy for the downtrodden and other victims of violence and he makes an effort to be aware of his shortcomings and be a good person most of the time. He never believes that trying to do good or fight evil means that hes perfect or cant be criticised. At some point he definitely held some resentment against Adrestians as a whole (not just Arundel or Edelgard themselves), but he got over that and became a dedicated peacemaker. 

Both of them have more maturity and self-awareness at 23 than Rhea has at 23 hundred.  

Church Route:  Well, at least Mama Eisner actually DID die of natural causes and there’s no indication that she mistreated her ‘experiments’ in anyways, but it can’t have been great for Byleth’s mom, to grow up knowing that she’s considered a ‘failure’, that her mother figure would so much rather that someone else take her place and is just waiting for her to die of old age so she could repeat the process. 

And then there’s how she made all the higher ups of the church drink her blood/ crest stones

Would this have happened to Jeralt if he hadn’t died when he did? Heavens could she have monsterified anyone who disagreed at any time?!

And just to twitch the knife she just HAS to call poor Byleth “mother”to their face at the very end  after they went through all the trouble to rescue her and forgave her for the meat puppet thing. 

Kingdom Route: 

- The Ashe/Cassandra support DEAR GOD

...did she just get off scot free? 

It’s not like I want her dead, per se, just not-a-threat-anymore.. She lives in her S support but she also partially recognizes her wrongdoings and that she’s unfit to rule and even goes on to atone, so, no objections from me. Whereas here we never see her realize that she was wrong in any way. Sure she’s stepped down but she’s probably discarded and assumed new identities a bajillion times. Just because she CAN cause trouble again doesn’t mean she will but if it were me I’d want some minimal assurance that she wont...

People: “But she has a sad backstory/sympathetic motivations/characterization other than muahaha”

Me: That’s decent writing, not morality. 

By “evil” I don’t mean “cackling disney villain”, I mean that a certain critical mass of badness is present and that her motivations are mainly selfish at other’s expense. Sanctimonious delusions just make it worse.   

Like you might feel sympathy towards some guy who was beaten by his father until you find out that he then went on to beat humiliate and mistreat his own children. It’s the same principle, though I recognize that this is by naturally subjective. 

She’s clearly intended to be tragic/pitiable and I’m certainly not going to get on anyone’s case for feeling sorry for or emphatizing with her (let alone liking her - you’re allowed to like antagonists and not every opinion has to be some great act of moral value)

But wether or not one wants to use the label “evil” which by nature is a subjective emotion-charged thing, or the entirely separate question of what one would or wouldn’t view as appropriate countermeasures,  there’s no denying that the results of her actions were net negative and that she was just plain incompetent and accountable to no one. And she wasn’t ever gonna stop.

It’s hard to give her a pass for being childish when Edelgard, Claude and Dimitri (eventually) take on so much responsibility and determinedly pursue altruistic goals though they are young and inexperienced. 

As I see it, Rhea’s a “rule the world” villain whereas the Agarthans are a “destroy the world” one. Lawful vs Chaotic evil.  Out of the two you’d probably prefer to be subjugated by Rhea because she’ll act as a benevonent tyrant as long as you do not openly defy her but both view the surface-dwelling people as lowly animals. In Rhea’s case, you get to be the pet cat, and she may even protect you like a pet cat. But pet cats dont get any say in how they are governed. 

#fire emblem: three houses #fire emblem three houses #fe3h #Rhea #archbishop rhea