#molly who was perhaps the only ruidusborn member of the nein | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

utilitycaster · 1 year

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Hi there! Thanks for writing so much great commentary on CR; I always look forwards to reading your takes and seeing your arguments. If you're ok with doing so, would you mind going into what overbalanced encounters you think weren't signalled well in the game and why? Just curious, no pressure though!

Hey anon! Thank you, and absolutely.

Honestly, there are only two that really stand out. Everything else is either too speculative on my part, or ended up okay in the end.

They are the fight in 2x26 where Molly dies, and the fight against Otohan in 3x33, and while they do both have character death, that's really a symptom, not the problem; assume character death or even a TPK is fine by me.

The things these fights share:

really low-level or drained party with no healing/very little healing left

Intended BBEG about whom the party knows very little

Enemy who will deliberately take death saves

Most of the signals are either subtle or directed towards a specific party member and are in the thick of combat when people aren't focusing on interpretation, especially when it's not a death spiral

Not a super clear "out" for the party nor the BBEG.

Like, it's very normal to set up an unwinnable or at least incredibly difficult encounter with an intended BBEG that does go well and is read accurately by the party but still isn't really a win. Some good examples are the initial Chroma Conclave attacks (fend off the dragons long enough, but the "19 MISSES?" line is truly all you need, they pick up on the need to run right away), the initial Briarwoods fight, the initial Vecna fight (which is, canonically, lethal), and the Tombtakers fight on the same day the Nein had fought Gelidon.

In all those cases, the situation is really clearly outlined, the party is either powerful enough to have tons of tricks up their sleeve or the enemy genuinely doesn't care enough to go for the kill shot, and there's no special tricks or traps.

The issue with the Iron Shepherds fight is that the signals that the Nein didn't have complete information were fairly subtle and relied on remembering pretty fine details from Keg's intel; by the time they realized how truly inaccurate it was, it was too late.

The issue with the Otohan fight is that honestly, it's...still not entirely clear how Otohan goading Imogen ties into the mechanics of the fight (larger plot, sure, kinda, although I still think Otohan is perhaps one of the least successful villains CR has ever had in terms of "do I give a shit"; it's just that Ludinus and Liliana are fantastic villains so it's fine; but it really wasn't clear what she wanted Imogen to do or why that mattered), and the switch in strategy mid-way through to taking death saves also threw people off, and all the party really knew going in was "head of organization we're infiltrating, kind of a badass, has a weird backpack". They really had no reason to understand how powerful she was; all the dream lore relating to Ruidusborn showed up later.

With both of these, also, the party were following like...pretty heavily dropped hints and signaled signposts and a general ambience of "here be The Plot/MacGuffin" and then it was a huge trap.

With something like, say, the Chroma Conclave, the party knew absolutely nothing - they just showed up to a political speech and dragons attacked. That matters! They knew in and out of game that it was a complete surprise and could act accordingly. Which I think brings me to the point: there is a metagaming element here, not in the sense of specific knowledge your character wouldn't know, but in terms of vibes your character could not technically pick up on. A non-combat example is Allura showing up in C2. Allura showing up says "this is the right path" to the players, even if the Mighty Nein do not know Allura. Beau and Caleb being kind of wary about what's going on? That's a huge sign that this is really fucking dangerous, and so Bells Hells was able to make smart choices and infiltrate slowly, which also gave them less high-pressure moments in which to, for example, notice how deeply entrenched Liliana was, or how brutal and unforgiving the Call and Vanguard are (all those bodies).

I think on the most basic level? If the party only realizes through extended combat how fucked they are, you have failed - and that's fine, DM's are human and fallible, but it should really be like, a 19 MISSES! moment if you need the reveal to be during combat, not something that happens a full initiative round in or requires any deeper analysis.

Also: a lot of these bets are off once parties hit like...L11 or so because at that point you should have enough resources to deal. Like, if you want to spring a nasty trap on a L17 party, do it. They should be able to deal.

#answered #Anonymous #cr tag

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