#oh also British men of letters was kind of blah

[hood-ex]

Howdy! I very recently got into Supernatural and have seen you post about it a few times. I’m really enjoying the first few seasons rn (Sam is so much more of a baby than I was expecting, I love it 😆), but I also know the show goes batshit the further along you get. Is there a specific season or arc where I should start lowering my expectations??? I just wanna be emotionally prepared for when things start switching over so I can still have fun 😭

(Love your Nightwing content btw!)

Hmm… I think most people enjoy seasons 1-5 (though for me I strongly prefer 1-3 over the other two). After that, opinions will more strongly differ about which seasons or arcs are bad. I struggled with season 6 a bit because of circumstances surrounding Sam. A lot of people liked Sam more because of the circumstances. I know a lot of people didn’t like season 7, but I remember liking it. And then, personally, I always struggled with the seasons where Sam and Dean were strongly at odds with each other. Some arcs felt too drawn out to me (Metatron and Mark of Cain Dean… sorry don’t exactly remember which seasons those arcs fall under).

Honestly, I think one of the worst parts of later seasons is how weak the angels are portrayed. And they really played on the angels/demons + heaven/hell stuff for waaay longer than they should’ve. Also, Dean seems like more of a dick in certain aspects in those later seasons when a character named Jack comes into play. But that’s not until like 13/14/15…? Yeah like those very last seasons. Again, memory is bad.

Some fun characters do come in at later seasons though like Charlie and Rowena, so I’d stick around for them. Charlie… might have been as early as season 7? Yeah… I think she was involved in all that. My memory of when certain things happened is so bad. But the Sam and Rowena relationship (not romantic mind you) is one of my favs.

I still found the show fun even when parts of it were bad, and that’s because of the bond between the brothers. So I can’t say for certain when to stop because I couldn’t make myself stop lol. Once you’re in, you’re locked in for good.

#oh also British men of letters was kind of blah #that’s also a later-ish season though #you’ll know when they start to get close to that arc once the bunker is revealed #anon

[mittensmorgul]

12.22:

Mary: It's not okay. Since I've been back, I know... I've been distant. Cold, even. Leaving you, working with them.. I was trying to make things right. Just from a distance, because.. being here with you was too hard. Seeing what I'd done to you and to Sam, I... Dean: Mom, what you did, the deal... everything that's happened since has made us who we are. And who we are? We kick ass. We save the world.

14.13:

SAM: Did you see them at dinner, the way they looked at each other? They just seemed happy, you know? It doesn’t feel fair to get all this and have to throw it away, and I know we have to. But it just feels like, you know… Once we send Dad back… it’s none of this ever happened. He – he just goes back to – to… to being Dad. DEAN: You saying you wish things would be different? SAM: Don’t you? Can you imagine – dad in the past, knowing then what he knows now? I… I think it would be nice. DEAN: Yeah. I used to think that, too. But, uh… I mean, look, we’ve been through some tough times. There’s no denying that. SAM: Yeah. DEAN: And for the longest time, I blamed Dad. I mean, hell, I blamed Mom, too, you know? I was angry. But say we could send Dad back knowing everything. Why stop there? Why not send him even further back and let some other poor sons of bitches save the world? But here’s the problem. Who does that make us? Would we be better off? Well, maybe. But I gotta be honest – I don’t know who that Dean Winchester is. And I’m good with who I am. I’m good with who you are. ‘Cause our lives – they’re ours. And maybe I’m just too damn old to want to change that.

but also:

12.23:

KELLY: God, please. I need help. SVEN [on phone]: I'm trying to help you, ma'am. KELLY: Are you, Sven? Because if you ask me if I have the quarter-inch Allen wrench one – one more time, I am going to come down there and burn your giant Viking junkyard of a store to the ground! Do you understand?! SVEN: Are you sure it wasn't in the box? KELLY: God! [she tosses the phone away in exasperation] CASTIEL: Kelly. I told you I'd put this together. I'm very good at following instructions. And you need to rest. KELLY: No, I don't. CASTIEL: Kelly – [Cas helps Kelly to her feet] KELLY: No, Cas, I don't. I can't. I don't know how long until... I don't know how long I have left. And I...I'm never gonna be able to teach him how to ride a bike or watch him get married or even look him in the eyes. But I can build him a stupid Swedish crib! I can do that. CASTIEL: Kelly, I know how hard this is. [Kelly gives Cas an incredulous look] That's a lie. I have no idea how hard this is for you. But I promise you... I will do everything. I will give my life for your son. And I will raise him. And I will make him someone you will be proud of.

(note that all their work on the nursery, all their preparations for Jack’s birth, building the crib and assuming they’d have a long road of raising a Smol Babby proved... to be a lie... everything they did was... pointless... in the end)

and 14.20:

JACK: You lied to me. CASTIEL: Jack. JACK: (yelling) You lied!

and

SAM: Well, it's like you said. (Chuckles) It's Celine Dion. Uh... I mean Celine Dion. It's Celi-- (Sam stammers) Dean, every time I try and say "Elvis," it comes out -- DEAN: The sad, horrible truth. Yeah. You know why? Because we can't lie.

and

MRS. KLINE: You lied to us. You said you worked with Kelly, but after you left, my husband and I, we made some calls, and no one knows who you are. JACK: I... I didn't.  MRS. KLINE: Yes, you did. Kelly's not away on some "secret mission." She... (Crying) They think she's dead. What did you do to my daughter?! (yelling) What did you do?!

and

DEAN: (looking at his phone) When people can't lie, the Internet gets real quiet.

and

WORKER #7 (in a singsong voice) I hate everyone! I hate everyone!  WORKER #5 (crying) I just want to be loved. WORKER #7: I hate everyone! I hate everyone!  OFF SCREEN: I just want a sweet life.  WORKERS #7: I hate everyone!  (Chuck and Castiel are watching the chaos) CHUCK: see, this is why people need to lie.  -I hate everyone! CHUCK: It's good. Keeps the peace, you know?

and

CASTIEL: Seems like an odd stance for...you.  CHUCK: Is it? I'm a writer. Lying's kind of what we do.

and

(Woman speaking Chinese dialect)- The state is a lie.

and

CAS: Can you fix it? CHUCK: (Sighs) Fine. (Snaps fingers) Fixed. SAM: Really? CHUCK: I'm God, Sam. Yeah, really. Go ahead. Try it out. DEAN:: Celine Dion rocks. Yeah. Yeah, we can lie again. CAS: And the rioting? CHUCK: Like it never happened.

and

CHUCK: Listen, you guys know me. I'm hands-off. I built the sandbox -- you play in it. You want to fight Leviathans? Cool. You got that. You want to go up against -- what was it? -- the "British Men of Letters"? Okay. Little weak, but okay. But when things get really bad, like the Apocalypse or the Other Apocalypse, that's when I have to step in. SAM: So you're saying Jack is Apocalyptic? CHUCK: The kid said, "Stop lying," and I don't know if you noticed, but the world kinda went insane.

and

SAM: So, Michael said that you create these worlds and you just toss them away like failed versions of some book.  CHUCK: And you believe him? SAM: Was he lying? Is that what you're doing to us? CHUCK: No. Sam... you and your brother, of all the Sams and Deans in all the multiverse, you're my favorite. You're just so interesting. I mean, like that thing that happened at the office earlier today -- that was crazy, right?

and

JACK: And I thought I could make the world a better place if people couldn't lie. CAS: Well, it didn't. JACK: It really didn't.

and

SAM: Wait. I thought Chuck said that the gun was the only thing that could... (indicating Jack, who is dead on the ground, eyes burned out) CAS: He's a writer. Writers lie.

and

BUT ALSO!

12.23:

SAM: Crowley...why did you do it? Save Lucifer– What did you want? CROWLEY: I wanted to win. I perverted mother's spell, put Lucifer in a vessel of my own making because I wanted to win. You have any idea how many people have made a play for my throne over the years? Lucifer, Abaddon, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Too damn many. I thought if I could put the Devil on a leash... my own personal nuke, no one would ever dare challenge me again. DEAN: Yeah. That worked out great. CROWLEY: All ended with me narrowly escaping death by hiding in a rat. MARY: Wait. In an...actual rat? CROWLEY: Wasn't too bad, really. Gave me time to think. You know, I've been focused for so long on keeping my job. Never realized I hate it. All those whining demons, the endless moan of damned souls, the paperwork! I mean, who wants that?

and

LUCIFER: Well... this is a fun surprise. I gotta hand it to you guys. You never give up, even when you should. Even when it would be so stupid not to. SAM: Look, whatever you're planning on doing, Chuck...God will stop you, just like he did last time. LUCIFER: You're right. What should I do? Oh, God! Don't strike me dead! Come on, Sam. You sound like a virgin in Jesus camp. "We can't. God is watching." No. Chuck "walked." He's gone. DEAN: So you're just gonna smash his toys? LUCIFER: Exactly. 'Cause every time I look at this sad trash fire of a world, you know what I keep thinking? I could do so much better. DEAN: So Apocalypse, take two. That's your plan? LUCIFER: When in doubt, go with the classics. That's what I always say. Well, boys, enough with the foreplay. Let's do this.

14.20

SAM: Do you watch us? When you're not here, are -- are you... watching us? CHUCK: Yeah. (Exhales deeply) I mean, you're my favorite show. SAM: Then why don't you do something? If I had your power -- CHUCK: Sam. We talked about this. Not the way it works. SAM: (Sighs) Wait a second. Why, when the chips are down, when the world is -- is failing, why does it always have to be on us?!  CHUCK: Because you're my guys. But right now, we need to focus on Jack. Ah, that kid. (Breathes deeply) Whew! SAM: Wait a second. You're scared of him.  CHUCK: Aren't you?

and

JACK: And you were right all along. I am a monster. SAM: (to Chuck) Do something. (he realizes with shock) You're enjoying this.  CHUCK: Shh.  (Dramatic music plays) (Dean cocks the gun. He looks Jack in the eye for several seconds and then slowly lowers the gun. At this point, Castiel also comes running towards the area) (Dean uncocks the gun and tosses it to the side) CHUCK: No. Pick it up! Pick it up.  DEAN: The hell, Chuck? CHUCK: This isn't how the story is supposed to end.  CAS: The story?  CHUCK: (frustrated) Lookit, the -- the -- the gathering storm, the gun, the -- the father killing his own son. This is Abraham and Isaac. This is epic! DEAN: Wait. What are you saying? SAM: He's saying he's been playing us. This whole time. CHUCK: Come on. SAM: Our entire lives. Mom, Dad -- everything. This is all you because you wrote it all, right? Because -- Because what? Because we're your favorite show? Because we're part of your story?

(because in the end Crowley’s spell did nothing, Cas’s self-sacrifice meant nothing, Lucifer’s destruction meant nothing because Michael wrought the same destruction as they were both trapped inside the same story and couldn’t even recognize themselves as Chuck’s characters who were just as “programmed” by Chuck as any of the angels who’d ever been subjected to Naomi’s reprogramming ever were... I mean they may have been partly right about Chuck, but they were still blind to the fact that even in their supposed “rebellion” they were always only ever Chuck’s pawns, enacting his favorite narrative for all time and unable to break free of it)

And the universe takes everything away from Sam and Dean again, and the beginning of another go-around of the narrative. Only this is the last go-around where Cas can be treated as someone that can be taken away from them and still continue to perform according to Chuck’s expectations within his story. This loss broke Dean. And Cas might not understand that yet, but it proved to the audience that Cas is integral to the Winchester Family. Chuck’s story can’t only revolve around Sam and Dean against the world. And by the end of 14.20, at least he’s learned that.

#spn 14.20 #spn 12.23 #spiders georg of the tnt loop #lies and damn lies #winchester family dynamics #if you say 'mysterious ways' so help me i will kick your ass #s14 meta rewatch #i'm casually enjoying the destruction of the entire got universe on the side here over a struggle for power in which everyone loses #it's almost as if crowley embodied that in his final episode but became self-aware and did the thing... #if only he'd lived to have this final curtain lifted revealing the full truth of the universe and his place in it #as just another character in chuck's story... #the scheherazade of supernatural #if anyone thinks this show is just a bunch of lazy writing i will throw down right here and fight them