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ephemeral-antiquities · 9 months

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In regards to the general headcanon that Vincent Sinclair communicates through sign language….

Here’s my idea, everyone…

Obviously, we know that Vincent is not deaf, he is hearing. The only chance I could think is if his hearing was somehow affected in the surgery separating him from Bo, which isn’t entirely out of the realm of possibility but still.

Though, that does not make it entirely irrational for him to communicate through ASL. However, there lies one problem in this headcanon, allow me to explain.

Sign language is more than simply hand gestures, and a lot of signs involve facial expressions. As my teachers always used to say about expressions, “if it doesn’t feel weird, you’re doing it wrong”. ASL relies on facial expression to indicate tone (among many other things) and expression is just as much a part of the sign as hand movement. A vast majority of the time, Vincent’s face is covered so his expression is not easily visible, and there’s the elephant in the room. Basically, to sign without visible expressions is.. not easy to put it simply, if not downright impossible.

I do believe that Vincent would communicate through sign though, at least partially. Without a doubt I believe a vast majority of his communication with others would be non-verbal. The method through which he would communicate I think would vary vastly depending on context and target audience. Signing to Bo and Lester is very plausible, in my opinion, or those he is comfortable enough to remove his mask around, but to others you may very well get a notepad or some other form of non-verbal communication.

But I also believe he would speak. It would be rare, though, as I imagine it would be physically painful for him, not to mention downright tiring (I get it). One or two sentences is the most (on a good day) you would get out of him, verbally. I have little information on this but I would imagine it’s not out of the realm of possibility that in the aforementioned surgery his vocal chords could have been somehow damaged, nevermind the scarring it left behind which could interfere severely with his ability to communicate verbally. Babies are small, after all.

I’m going off on a tangent now, though, so allow me to summarize and wrap things up.

Yes, I believe Vincent Sinclair 100% communicates, primarily, through non-verbal forms. Yes, I believe that part of that includes the usage of sign language in certain cases. But yes, I believe he will speak when absolutely necessary (in urgent situations, or when Bo isn’t listening or doesn’t care to pay attention to his signing) and it always catches Bo and Lester off guard. The two would be in the middle of a conversation, and out of nowhere they hear this scratchy, trembling voice (from severe lack of use + damage) from just out of their line of sight. I think they would never get used to Vincent’s voice, because it’s such a rarity and when it is heard it stops you in your tracks and makes your hair stand on end, just for a moment.

On a final note, while I do believe he speaks on occasion and communicates through different non-verbal means, I believe Trudy would have taught him sign first when she realized that speaking was more or less out of the equation. English is his spoken language, but in terms of communication, I believe sign would be the language of his heart.

🤟

#disclaimer: I am not deaf so I am not an expert on this it is simply based on my learning #so if anyone who is deaf sees this and there is incorrect information PLEASE correct me!#I love this headcanon deeply but in spme situations it unfortunately isnt entirely realistic #I do want to continue learning ASL #<- side note #ASL is one of my favorite languages honestly #and in a way it lines up with the timeline #Im rambling but I love ASL and HoW #ephemeral antiquities #house of wax #house of wax 2005 #vincent sinclair #that collective headcanon that Vincent Sinclair signs #we love you Vincent you are beautiful as you are #sign and non-verbal communicate on my man

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wen-kexing-apologist · 1 year

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The Moonlight Chicken Sign Language Index (aka signs that are the same or similar between Thai Sign Language and American Sign Language)

I asked, literally one person answered, and I kind of already had this assembled because of a conversation with @respectthepetty but that's enough for me at this point so...I'm basically just gonna copy and paste what I already had from that one reply in to it's own post.

DISCLAIMER: I am a hearing person with a minuscule (self-taught) knowledge of ASL and no knowledge of MTSL. My intention in making this post is not to teach anyone ASL, that is not my job and I should not be doing it because I am not Deaf. I am simply identifying signs I recognize. ASL is a beautiful language that I do hope to one day be able to learn properly because it is, personally, a very important language to me. I invite any Deaf or CODA people who may be reading this post to give me any critiques, or if anyone with actual knowledge of ASL, not my self-taught knowledge, identifies any more signs from the MTSL in Moonlight Chicken to ASL I would be incredibly interested to see them!

I am making this index partially because I really enjoy seeing where and how MTSL and ASL are identical or at least similar. Sorry they are not in alphabetical order.

The first couple are from @respectthepetty who also did a write up in the original post of this about finger spelling MTSL versus ASL.

So without further ado and in whatever order I feel like...The Signs:

TODAY/NOW

NOW

Tell me why when I google TODAY sign asl gif I get signs for literally every holiday "st patricks day, labor day" but not DAY on it's own. It's essentially the same in ASL although in ASL instead of a flat palm moving down it's can also be the letter D in sign language

DAY

SAY/NAME

NAME

Side note, this is the sign for HEARING in ASL but in Moonlight Chicken the same/similar sign seems to mean SAY:

DEAF

(i don't) UNDERSTAND

UNDERSTAND is the first part of this gif where he sticks his finger up next to his ear, it's essentially the same in ASL.

UNDERSTAND

To say I DON'T UNDERSTAND in ASL you would use the same finger motion but also shake your head no.

Double side note, sorry all of these ASL gifs are of white men, the Google Images market is absolutely overflowing with gifs of these two in particular.

DIFFICULT

WORK

HOME

If memory serves, Heart does not slide his hand from his lip to his cheek, just taps his cheek.

BEFORE:

STUDY:

LEARN:

YEAR

Clapping in MTSL:

Clapping in ASL:

And that is all I have so far. I linked it above, but please click through to the finger spelling write up that respectthepetty did because it also discusses Gloss and comments on Black Sign Language which is it's own sign language form in the US and is not ASL. I will update this post again if I find other signs that seem to correlate. There are a couple of more signs I discuss in the previous post about this, but I didn't include those in this index because they are far more speculative sign comparisons than these ones are and I don't want this index to have potentially incorrect information on it

Edit: Okay I know I literally just said above that I didn't want the index to have potentially incorrect information on it, and this bit of signing is not translated through caption or through Li Ming saying the words so I cannot be 100% certain that this is correct. However, I am posting this one because given the context of the scene (this is when Li Ming goes to Heart's house after his big fight with Uncle Jim and Heart sprays Li Ming with the hose) and how similar the sign is, I think it means the same thing. I will only put the word down for the ASL just in case I am wrong, I don't want to attribute the wrong word to the MTSL sign but...

PLAY in ASL

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singingwordwright · 6 years

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Trying to break the cancellation issue down: Week 2

Okay, so tonight I posted an entirely-too-long tweet thread on this issue, in which I recapped a lot of what I laid out in my post last week, as well some things I mentioned in response to an ask yesterday, and also new questions, information, and supposition. I thought I would try to lay it out here in a slightly more coherent issue.

First, however, I’m going to put it behind a cut. Because then if I have to edit any of this information, all the reblogs will link to the edited version instead of reblogging the incorrect/out-of-date version. Then I won’t have to make any future new posts on this subject.

Please keep in mind that this is all educated guessing. None of us know what’s really going on.

To recap what I laid out last week:

@freeform doesn’t own Shadowhunters. Freeform merely “leases” the domestic distribution rights from Constantin Film, who holds the adaptation rights.

(ETA 6/16/18) Freeform, however, has exclusive rights to this show indefinitely and it goes no where unless Freeform chooses to give them up. (this is a correction as I was mistaken before in believing the distribution rights would revert to Constantin after Freeform turned down Season 4)

@netflix doesn’t own Shadowhunters either. Netflix “leases” the international distribution rights from Freeform.

The money Netflix and Freeform pay Constantin for those rights funds production of the show.

Itunes, Amazon Video and Hulu all have domestic streaming of the show as well as Freeform.

Hulu likely acquires its streaming arrangement from Freeform, as the show carries the Freeform logo on Hulu. This makes sense; Disney owns part Hulu and all of Freeform.

I don’t know if Amazon and Itunes carry SH internationally, and I don’t know if they have their domestic streaming agreement from Freeform or from Constantin. I DO know they have a different streaming format than Freeform; you buy the episodes individually or the season entirely, rather than paying for a subscription service (I don’t think the show is on Amazon Prime as part of their subscription package, but I could be wrong.)

Something to keep in mind going forward:

Freeform is a business, and it’s going to be more helpful to us to regard this stance on the issue in terms of cost/benefit analysis, rather than assuming pettiness or malice or vindictiveness. I know having a villain in this scenario fires us up and keeps us raring for the fight, and we need that energy, but ultimately it’s not helpful in drilling down to the core issues and finding solutions.

Stupidity and tone-deafness are definitely sins we could probably fairly lay at their door, however. They have clearly underestimate both the passion of their audience and the importance of this show on a societal level, and those are tragic, foolish mistakes.

Shadowhunters and Freeform: A History:

As anyone who has ever looked at leasing versus buying a car or apartment will tell you, there are certain benefits to both arrangements, but usually in the long run it costs less to own something rather than to lease it. Which means that Freeform isn’t making as much money off SH as it is off the shows that are actually Freeform originals.

Why did Freeform acquire the distribution rights, then?

Well, ABC Family was intending to rebrand as Freeform and go after the millennial crowd, and it needed some new, edgier, more adult, more diverse, less family-oriented shows than The Fosters or whatever.

They also wanted to break into the streaming market instead of going with a live-airing-only model.

A show like Shadowhunters, based off a series of books their target audience enjoyed growing up, was obviously a good bet. Especially since that audience is largely comprised of binge-watching cord-cutters.

The goal, then, was to use Shadowhunters to draw the new audience in and to have it “shepherd” less established, Freeform-original franchises by hoping the SH viewers would stick around to watch whatever was in the 9pm time slot. And that worked well for them.

But once Freeform had a number of other, original shows doing somewhat well, the “benefit” side of the cost/benefit ratio began to decrease. It’s an expensive show to produce that isn’t performing well in live ratings and whatever money they’re making off it, they have to give a hefty portion of that to Constantin Film.

The cost (at least in terms of lost potential revenue) was further compounded by the fact that Shadowhunters was occupying a very coveted time-slot, 8PM, for 20 weeks of the year. That is a massive piece of prime-time real estate to give to a show that is no longer really needed to perform the functions they once required from it.

Malec_Immortal over on Twitter posted a pretty astute (if somewhat vitriolic) series of tweets about how you can identify the timeframe when Freeform made the decision to stop investing so heavily in Shadowhunters. YouTuber Trini did a side-by-side comparison of the effort the Freeform Twitter put into promoting s2 and the effort they put into promoting s3 and it couldn’t really be more blatant.) Now, maybe they might have continued with the show had season 3 performed better in the live ratings, but it’s obvious they were all about reducing their cost while trying to glean what dwindling benefit they could from it.

I think it’s clear that Freeform was still promoting the show up through August, at least, because the cast’s appearance at SDCC was an obvious investment that doesn’t appear to have been used to promote any other Freeform properties (though perhaps a few Disney ones) but by NYCC in October, it’s obvious that they had slotted SH into the role of mentor/veteran show whose primary purpose was to pull in viewers for Freeform’s other, wholly owned properties.

Perhaps if SH had performed well enough in live-airing views to justify a continued investment, Freeform wouldn’t have wanted to reduce their episode order for season 4, but that didn’t happen. At that point, the cost of continuing with a full 20-episode season outweighed the benefit. They tried to negotiate for a reduced season order, Netflix wasn’t happy with that, and now here we are.

Where does that leave us?

Freeform got the drop on everyone in terms of setting the narrative for this whole thing. They blamed it on Netflix for yanking out of their distribution deal and leaving Freeform holding the bag. In truth, however, it appears the only reason Netflix pulled out is because Freeform violated an agreement by demanding a shorter season for s4.

Which makes sense. Of course Netflix would want more and Freeform would want less; this show has always performed better on streaming and internationally than it has on live television.

I think it’s clear that somewhere along the way, Freeform (while not abandoning its streaming emphasis) has reverted to considering live-viewing ratings in its considerations. An obvious example is Beyond. Beyond performed well enough in its first season (shepherded, as it were, by Shadowhunters) to get a second season, but a large part of its success was the fact that it was dropped all at once for streaming-on-demand. For whatever reason, Freeform decided that wasn’t profitable and went to a different model for season 2, and Beyond performed abysmally and got the axe.

Unfortunately for us, they’ve been applying the Beyond-season2 model all along, which means Shadowhunters hasn’t been performing as well either by their calculations (though a great deal of that is down to reduced marketing and just using the show as a vehicle to promote other, Freeform-original properties.

For all that they claimed it wasn’t about the ratings and was “purely economical” you can’t divorce the economics of a show from the ratings if you’re using a live-air-viewing model. They needed that coveted 8pm timeslot for something that would be more profitable. They could have moved SH to a less valuable time slot, but then it wouldn’t make them enough money to earn back what they were spending on the distribution license (which funds production.)

Yeah yeah yeah, but what does this mean for the show getting picked up?

To put it frankly, our biggest obstacle here on multiple fronts is season 3b. Specifically, it’s the fact that Freeform has pushed 3b back to Spring of 2019. That is screwing our efforts over, big time.

These are episodes that are already in the can. The final cut of 3x20 has been produced, according to Todd Slavkin. And these are episodes that Freeform owns and still hasn’t aired.

No one is going to want to acquire this show until 3b has aired. (Assuming Freeform is willing to let anyone acquire it.) Which means no one is going to want to acquire it until Summer of 2019. And we probably wouldn’t get season 4 until spring of 2020 at the earliest.

I can’t think of a single other show that has been canceled with half the season still month away from being aired like this. And if it has happened, it probably wasn’t picked up by anyone else (if at all) until after the season was done.

Look at it this way. It’s obvious from their CEO’s tweets that Constantin would love to see the distribution rights pass to someone else (probably Netflix.) Netflix may even be willing to pick them up (if Freeform is willing to sell,) considering that who Constantin’s CEO tagged in his tweets.

But what happens to those 10 episodes that are in the can? Whoever picks the show up has to wait until Freeform is done airing those eps before they can begin marketing, and probably even filming.

Maybe someone would be willing to pay Freeform for those eps, but that’s highly unlikely. What new network wants to start a show mid-season like that? And would they even be willing to pay enough for Freeform to recoup their losses on production AND potential losses on advertising? A new network will want the story to be in a place where new viewers who have never seen it before will be able to tune in and quickly pick up on what is going on, and considering the cliffhanger S3a left off on, that’s...not something anyone EXCEPT Netflix (or maybe Hulu or Amazon, who already have the previous episodes in their libraries) would want to pick up. That pretty much rules out...every other network.

Furthermore, again, the show has always done best streaming. Odds are good that ONLY a streaming service is going to want the show.

Some questions we need to ask:

Will whoever acquires the show be paying Freeform to “adopt” their distribution license, or will Freeform’s distribution license lapse and a new license need to be negotiated with Constantin? (ETA 6/16/18: we appear to have an answer on that.)

Also, CAN Freeform even get out of the plan to film/air the 2-hour finale at this point? The contract has probably already been negotiated. Unless they somehow have an option to back out of it, they’re committed.

So, it may be that they HAVE to make that episode. Which probably won’t begin filming until season 4 would have begun filming, probably around August. Which probably means the earliest they could air the season/episode is in January and we would HAVE to wait until spring/summer of 2019 before anyone else can pick up this show. IF they’re willing to pick up this show. If potential buyers see interest has waned because of the long wait and general frustration and disgust, they’re not going to want the show.

Will potential buyers even be interested if the show has run out of book-based material? The 2-hour finale is supposed to wrap up the final book of the series, and while our main concern is that 2 hours won’t be enough to do all that material justice (especially with any non-book-based plotlines also needing to be resolved.) Any future seasons would, in essence, be a spin-off using the same characters. Can Constantin even do that with the adaptation rights?

So what do we do?

I’m not saying we should stop fighting, not at all, but I’m saying we need to conserve our energy because this is going to be a very long haul. It’s a situation that is messy and complicated beyond any other show that I’ve ever heard of being cancelled and picked up by another network. We very likely won’t see any fruit from our labors until after 3b and the finale air, whenever that may happen. I think with the negative publicity we’re generating, Freeform may find it useful to get us out of their hair sooner rather than later, but the time required to produce the finale ep is an issue there.

We really need more answers to know how to most effectively apply pressure to get the show renewed. Our best bet for getting those answers is the same place we’ve gotten the information we have so far; interviews and articles. Some media outlets are already latching onto this story (and largely supporting us, or reporting that we’re not going away) but we need to keep making this A STORY in order to get them to report on it (and hopefully use their access to get more answers than we have.)

HOWEVER I could be wrong about any or all of this. OUR BEST BET IS TO CONTINUE BEING LOUD. DO NOT STOP TRYING TO GET THE SHOW PICKED UP.

#shadowhunters #SaveShadowhunters

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