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noqueenbutthequeeninthenorth · 5 years

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Okay, so, episode thoughts. Here we go. This will get long.

I’m not going to get into the Missandei mess much because it’s all been said and said better than I can say it, but it was racist and cheap and the laziest storytelling I can imagine, and it does a huge disservice to her as a character, turning her into even more of a narrative prop than she already was. Grey Worm will likely meet the same fate. It’s bullshit.

So let’s talk about the other stuff.

Is Sansa in love with Jon? I honestly think so. There were too many moments that screamed love triangle, including at the feast when she literally walks away when she sees Jon smiling at D/ny. The scene with Tyrion only confirmed it. She was on the verge of tears just thinking about Jon choosing to live in the south with D/ny. The fact that Sansa’s dislike of D/ny has been shown to be both political and personal -- while Arya’s is strictly political (i.e., she’s an outsider and can’t be trusted, but Jon was right to do what he did to get her help) -- clinches the matter for me. Arya doesn’t like D/ny but her dislike is protective, not passionate. She’s not emotionally affected by D/ny or Jon’s relationship with her.

Now, the question remains: Why would they show us Sansa being in love with Jon, only for her to end up alone and heartbroken from unrequited love? Is the show really that cruel?

Well, maybe. But I still don’t think it makes any sense, if D&D knew Jonsa was coming (even unrequited Jonsa), that they would’ve written and filmed Jon as they did in seasons 6 & 7. They wouldn’t have gone out of their way to show that Sansa is Jon’s trigger if they were just going to have him passively accept her being threatened by ~the woman he loves~. Now, admittedly, “making sense” is not the show’s strong suit, but I still see no reason to believe that Jon actually loves D/ny.

The scene between the two of them was, admittedly, the most chemistry they’ve ever had, but 1) he was drunk and probably extremely relieved that they’d won the war against the AOTD; 2) they still didn’t get that carried away in their passion; and 3) mostly importantly, we still get no confirmation from Jon himself that he loves her. She gave him a perfect opening for him to tell her, and the audience, his feelings, but instead he went in for the kiss. Why? If Jon loves D/ny, why not show us his love for her? If Jon is tormented by the fact that he loves his aunt and wants to be with her but can’t, why not have him talk about it? With her, with Sam, with Sansa, with Arya, I don’t fucking care who. If we are headed toward a tragic ending in which Jon has to kill the woman he loves, then wouldn’t that be more shocking and heartbreaking if we see Jon truly adoring this woman?

Instead, we see him simply submitting to her. He calls her his queen so often it’s almost a joke. When anyone questions her, he says she’s the queen, he made a promise, and they are loyal to her.

Now, I could be completely wrong, but given the writing decisions in season 6, season 7, and 8.03, I think it is perfectly reasonable to assume that D&D are writing toward a plot twist. That’s their MO. Everything they write is shaped around a shocking moment -- presumably the one in which Jon turns on D/ny. Given this pattern, the only reason I can account for the way Jon’s storyline has been handled is that he’s being written solely for the purpose of that twist.

If the twist was simply that Jon must kill the woman he loves, then there are a million other ways to make that shocking that don’t require us never getting Jon’s POV. In fact, it’s much more shocking if we were fully invested in the love story. If the twist is that he never loved her, on the other hand.....

Yes, it’s hacky writing. Yes, it’s narratively incoherent. Yes, it’s bad television. It’s hard for me to imagine them pulling it off in a way that can be even remotely satisfying. At this point it’s probably impossible. I’m extremely unhappy about it.

But I’m not ready to write off Jon as a character yet, and nor am I ready to write off Jonsa altogether. Will I have to fill in a lot of blanks myself to make it work? Will I have to imagine a lot more communication and nuance than the show is willing to give? Absolutely. Will I be dreaming about how the books will tell this story every day for the rest of my life? Yes. But that’s where I’m at on this.

(The big exception for me is the handling of Ghost. This was so out of character and bizarre that I don’t know what to make of it. If Jon is willing to send Ghost away, then maybe he really is the dumb asshole he seems to be. But, then again, the show has always minimized the importance of the direwolves, and clearly they were looking for a way to get out of people telling them to spend the money on CGI for the direwolves. I don’t know.)

Other things about the episode, briefly:

Gilly’s pregnant! Nice. At least there’s one good thing happening.

Also the opening scene with the burning of the corpses was moving. The bit with Theon.... I cried.

I think Jaime was using the truth (that he’s a bad guy who’s done a lot of bad shit for Cersei) to push Brienne away to keep her safe while he went south to confront Cersei. I’m worried this means we will be getting Jaime killing Cersei, which as you all know is one of my least favorite but highly likely theories.

I was not surprised by Arya turning down Gendry. That’s seriously not who she is or what she’s ever wanted. I think she’d be happy to be with him, but not as the lady of Storm’s End.

That said, it’s disappointing she returned to her kill list. She deserves more than to be an assassin. She is capable of being more. That said... could she be going south to kill D/ny instead of (or in addition to) Cersei?

While I hate that they used Missandei’s death to “tip” D/ny into MQ territory -- and in fact while I hate that they played up the MQ stuff when up until this episode I’ve never found her mad, just dangerous and power-hungry and self-aggrandizing -- I do appreciate that at least they made it clear she was willing to blow KL to bits even before Missandei was killed. She’s been willing to do it for seasons now. She didn’t need anything to tip the scales.

So...... no Dance of Dragons 2.0? I’m quite surprised tbh! I never really wanted Jon to ride a dragon but what was the point in it, if he made no difference during the war against the NK, and then Rhaegal was just going to get killed the next episode?

Varys and Tyrion were sorta interesting this episode but I hate that they’re framing Jon’s maleness as part of his legitimacy -- and positioning this as a REASONABLE opinion. I also think that while Jon would probably be a better ruler than D/ny, he tbh has done nothing to prove himself lately so I’m not sure why everyone’s so sure of him all of a sudden. That said, I don’t blame Sansa for telling Tyrion the truth; it was an extremely smart thing to do, because she recognizes D/ny for the danger she is, to both her home and her family and Jon in particular.

My biggest gripe, still, is that the show seems to not really care about the Starks. We get one scene of the four of them all together -- and it cuts off before the MOST IMPORTANT PART of the conversation, that is, Sansa and Arya’s reactions to Jon’s parentage. Will we ever have all four Starks in a scene together again? I worry not! And this might be the last we got of them.

The fact that there were also no goodbye scenes between the Starks is fucking outrageous.

I’m not touching that scene with Sansa and the Hound with a ten foot pole. What the actual fuck to literally every part of it.

I can’t think of anything else right now but I’m sure I’ll have more to say later. Overall, I didn’t hate the idea of this episode, and it even had its moments (Sansa egging Jon on when he was drinking!), but the complete blackout of Jon’s POV and the general lack of care for the Starks in general has kind of ruined this season. IDK. I’m hoping there’s enough about the endgame that I like to make it possible for relatively canon-compliant fanfic to fill in the gaps, but I’m not holding my breath at this point.

ALSO, I’m extremely afraid next week will just be another battle episode and we won’t get any Sansa or the North. Thoughts?

#got spoilers #episode thoughts

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weirdponytail · 5 years

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Modern Inheritance headcanon/story ramble to get it out of my brain

I’m a real sucker for Inheritance cycle if it isn’t already apparent, and like a lot of my Huntik fics I tend to write the stuff that happens ‘in between’ all the big stuff and whatnot for my modern inheritance cycle drabbles.

Arya’s relationship with her mother in my Modern style isn’t fully fleshed out yet. To be honest, I still can’t understand Islanzadi’s character in canon, besides her being more showy and politically nuanced (and manipulative) and generally more flashy than practical. Arya, on the other hand, is much more practically minded and straightforward, something picked up from living ~7/10ths of her life with humans and dwarves instead of elves.

Anyway, back on to the thing at hand.

It’s mentioned by Roran in Inheritance that he sees Islanzadi fighting on the battlefield and that he’s impressed by her. He’s seen Arya fight, and while Arya’s a dervish in a fight and a hell of a warrior, he admits that Islanzadi is even more impressive to him than her daughter, implying that Islanzadi is a better fighter than Arya, who’s lived and breathed the battlefield for seventy years.

So while puttering around with some of my Modern Inheritance fics dealing with the two reconciling while Eragon trained, I started wondering if Arya knew/appreciated that her mother could actually fight. This lead to me toying with the idea of Islanzadi, rather out of touch with how to relate to Arya, laughs about never having a sparring match with her own daughter after all these years of watching her train with Glenwing, Faolin, Brom and Oromis, and pretty much challenges her. Arya’s a bit on the fence about it (seventy years of fighting vs her mother sitting around on a throne for like...over a hundred years doing nothing gives a big experience gap) but her own pride wins out because hey, this is something she’s totally sure she could beat her mother at and prove herself.

(this started as a humor short and then devolved into family drama/angry confessions and then later drunk confessions and angst. Oops.)

Brom catches wind of this and shows up at the private gym at Tildari hall with a large bag of popcorn and a huge goofy grin. Arya asks him about it, and when his only response is ‘I heard you’re going to fight your mum!’ she assures him that she’s going to pull her punches and go easy on her mother. This leads to Brom getting an even bigger smile and shoving popcorn in his face preemptively.

So Islanzadi and Arya face off and Arya closes in to make the first move...and is suddenly flat on her back wheezing swear words because what the actual fuck just happened? while Brom cackles.

Islanzadi is mildly amused.

Arya gets a bit ticked off, and they square up again, and to her credit the younger elf manages to last a few more seconds this time before she gets flipped literally head over heels and hits the mat again. More laughter from Brom, more confusion and sputtering from Arya, and a raised eyebrow from Islanzadi.

This goes on for hours. Arya keeps getting back up and refuses to admit that her mother can actually fight, while Brom secretly records her getting her ass handed to her in a small montage. Islanzadi comments after a while that she had expected Arya to have learned by now to stay down when she’s been beaten, which just leads to a few very violently aggressive bouts. Each time they fight Arya lasts a bit longer, until finally both Islanzadi and her get into a stalemate that Arya manages to win...using an underhanded trick she had learned from her years in the field.

When Islanzadi gets angry about her use of deception and dishonor, Arya unleashes an angry tirade at her mother for staying in Du Weldonvardon while others fought and died to keep Galbatorix occupied and his attention away from the elves, especially since it’s now clear to her that yes, her mother can fight. Arya ends it by telling Islanzadi that she sure as hell won’t stay down because first off, it’s the only way she survived with her sanity and self worth intact in Gil’ead(Arya’s still very much grappling with the trauma and Islanzadi, while concerned and really loving her daughter, doesn’t know how to deal with it and just glosses over and past Arya’s captivity and the struggles that she still has out of fear that she can’t help her daughter), and second, she gets up every time and uses any trick available to her because she’s fighting for her life in the field instead of for sport and distraction from court and the day to day life in cushy seclusion.

Islanzadi lets her finish, then full on slaps her across the face hard enough to put her on the floor again. Tells Brom she’ll give him the same if he interferes and cooly tells Arya that she’ll be waiting in her office for her to be ready to talk to her like an adult and not an angry child and leaves. Brom helps Arya up, makes sure she’s not about to go full PTSD on him after being pinned and knocked around, and offers to help her back to her room. Arya just swears and tells him that she knows about his stash of elvish alcohol and that she really, really needs a drink.

Arya shows up her mother’s office later that night. Not as an angry child but as a drunk-as-fuck adult and her cheek still split open from where her mother had slapped her. Able to speak more freely about the last seven decades with some strong alcohol, Arya rambles to her mother the things she’s seen on the warfront. The lives lost, betrayals and alliances forged and broken, flickers of hope snuffed out and the crimes even she has committed for the possibility of freedom and equality in the distant future. She admits to being angry more because of her own, most recent failings: being unable to save Glenwing’s arm, watching Faolin fall, and the many times she was too weak to get back up in Gil’ead. She tells her mother that Faolin was her mate of several decades, a secret they kept from all but their closest friends, and that some tiny, defeated part of her whispers that if the queen had only refused Faolin’s request to be Arya’s guard then maybe he would be alive.

She tells her mother that when Islanzadi mentioned her needing to learn to stay down, she remembered Durza mocking her with the exact same words, and was fighting him in her mind’s eye until a particularly solid right hook brought her back to her senses.

Islanzadi, for once, realizes that instead of injecting herself into it and trying to defend herself and her reasons, she should just listen to what her daughter has to say.

They end up in the cushioned alcove of Islanzadi’s office, Arya with her head in her mother’s lap and mumbling exhausted, drunken nonsense as Islanzadi strokes her hair. In a brief moment of clarity the younger elf asks when her mother stopped seeing Evander, Arya’s father and Islanzadi’s mate, disappear around every corner after he was killed in the Rider’s Fall. She’s been seeing Faolin and wants to know if the pain ever goes away.

Islanzadi tells her it takes some time, but it will eventually stop hurting. When she sees that Arya has fallen asleep, she hopes her daughter was already out before she heard her lie.

JEZUS FUGGIN CHRIST HOW DID I GO FROM A HUMOR SHORT TO THIS JACKED UP STUFF?!

#modern inheritance cycle #modern inheritance #modern inheritance story #arya drottningu #islanzadi #a hint towards my never written out but planned-for mild alcoholism that brom has while in Ellesmera #arya's a bundle of sass in the day and a ball of ptsd knives guns and flashbacks at night #brom MIGHT have shown eragon and saphira the clip of Arya getting flipped over her head at some point #izzy has trouble balancing being politically manipulative and being a supportive mum #she's learning #really...really slowly #later they spar again and arya doesn't give her time to do anything #just straight up punches her lights out in one hit #sits next to her waiting for her to wake up like 'how's that dirt taste your majesty?'#'if you're gonna take out a king might as well start with a queen first'#'ya alright though?'#and izzy actually finds it kinda funny #i dont know how adult mothers and daughters joke around i wish i did though #angst bitches

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occupyvenus · 7 years

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Let’s talk about THE INTERVIEW

Before anyone starts to freak out, look at this section of the “interview” with grrm coming right after the jonsa “debunk” and tell me if this is something Grrm would ever say: (translated from spanish to english using google translate, so some of the pronouns are off and the grammar is a bit wacky):

-I am interesting that I named Arya, who has been developing a psychopathic character throughout the saga. Do you have salvation? I know that his wife adores her, although it would also seem crazy to me that his crimes were justified when revenge dominates his life.

-Arya is a girl who has sought to survive at all costs. It is not Sansa, who has assumed the role that would correspond to any noblewoman of the time. Arya has a difficult character to handle. He could have let himself be killed or given to the Lannisters to be used as one more piece of the game of thrones; but decided to act as they would have done with her to get here. Salvation would have everyone if they reflected a few seconds; but few decide to change course once they make a decision. It has been shown that revenge is not the best way to do justice, it always ends up paying.

Did “grrm” just really turn to an unsolicited, snarky Sansa side-bashing when asked about Arya? Answering a question about Arya developing “pychopathic traits” and revenge by pointing out how she’s not like Sansa because she “sought to survive at all costs, didn’t assume the role of ordinary noblewomen and didn’t let herself become a piece to be used by the Lannister, because she decided to ACT, MAN!” Fuck the sympathetic characterization I created for Sansa. Arya rules. Sansa sucks. Also he doesn’t even go into Arya’s characterization and her supposed “psychopathic character”, I’m pretty sure he would have some interesting things to add to this interpretation. “George” solely uses this question to throw some shade at Sansa. Also, someone brings up the topic of being preoccupied with revenge and “george” doesn’t bring up Lady Stoneheart? A character he talks about whenever possible, because he’s so pissed about her not being included in the show? Seriously, Arya is the example of revenge not being the best way to do justice? This honestly feels like a bit of a mix of show and book canon, post-frey pies.

This rhetoric resembles that of the usual sansa-hating, anti-jonsa community so strikingly and is so unlike the way grmm usually speaks.

Here’s something George said in an actual interview about sexual violence, women in asoiaf and how their characters are perceived by female readers:

I’m very proud of the creation of Arya and Catelyn and Sansa and Brienne and Daenerys and Cersei and all of them. It’s one of the things that gives me the most satisfaction, that they’ve been so well-received as characters, especially by women readers who are often not served.

This might be a bit nitpicky and nuances could have easily been lost in the double translation, but this statement:

-Question made by Lemi Noe (A Group Does Not Have a Name): It is the first series in which I see that many women are considered heroines: Arya, Brienne, Daenerys ..., what do you think when you see how many real women feel identified? with them in a world like the Game of Thrones?

-I'm proud of it. For me women are people and should have their place in the world, like any man. When I write about my female characters in such a macho era and I get them to rise above the possibilities that environment would never have given them, I cry inside. A current woman is still facing those problems in society and for me it is an honor to cause that effect in many people.

does not really resemble George’s usual views on feminism and/or writing strong female characters in a highly patriarchal world. This emphasize on women “rising above the possibilities given to them” (BECAUSE THEY DECIDED TO ACT!!!) fits more into reddits “sansa is weak and useless” take on feminism. This statement just strikes me as very odd and not something grrm would say.

AND THEN THERE’S THIS GEM:

Question formulated by Víctor Alfonso (LA MURALLA): How satisfied are you with the direction of the seventh season of the series, since the story in this one covers unknown territory in the books?

I'm very happy with the work of the producers. It is a story that will differ from mine in many ways and I have no complaints; they handle one version, I the other.

A statement that completely contradicts the epic shade he threw at D&D when stating that he doesn’t watch season 7 because “he doesn’t have the time”, while fangirling over the last kingdom.

Here are a few more things from the interview that at least seem ... rather odd to me:

So, is not Jon the hero of this story? Daenerys would not deserve a reward after living in exile since childhood?

I do not like labels. All my characters have suffered, each in his own way. For something I write from their points of view, so that we can all understand why they do what they do and how they feel in front of the enemy. For the Lannister, the Starks are the bad guys. It would not be fair to dismiss them as villains or their rivals as heroes. Is Jon a hero? You can, but so is Jaime Lannister, Sam Tarly or Stannis Baratheon. Each of them has been a coward once, but also brave. If you ask me if Jon is the hero of this story, I answer that he is not; all are important as long as they remain alive among my pages and they will have the same opportunity to prove their worth. Regarding Daenerys, I do not think that deserving, in this saga, is synonymous to obtain. In real life, because you are a good person, you do not get everything you want. I try to make my story as realistic as possible and some may see their struggle rewarded, but not all.

So “George” starts by pointing out that everyone can be a hero a villain, depending on your side and position, but when it comes to Dany he simply implies that she might not obtain the throne, despite deserving it for being a good person, because life is unfair? Doesn’t feel like george’s usual, well thought out answers. Compare this to his statement about sheer force in the form of dragons might not be enough to secure Dany’s victory, there’s more to ruling than brute force and military strength. Awfully different tones, wouldn’t you agree?

Then there’s of course the passage about “shipping”, which basically consists of the jonsa-debunk arguments you can read all over the internet. I’m not even going to repeat them, since we all heard them about a million times before. The creator of the series brings forward the same contradicting arguments as your everyday redditor? He has nothing more to add? Sounds fake, but okay.

I’ll admit that some parts of this interview are pretty convincing (probably because those parts mostly paraphrase stuff he has said before), but together with the suspicious circumstances of this “interview's” release, the general spoiler-y and conclusive tone of some statements and a couple of things that simply don’t fit into grrm’s usual rhetoric, I’m pretty sure it’s fake. The lengths people will go to for a few days of internet fame.

#jonsa #fake interview

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